Open letter to Disney concerning new TSA full body scan.

[padawans]

Jefferson, Franklin and the others were bright men, I'm sure they left airplanes and air travel out intentionally. Seriously, do you believe everything you write (or should I say Wright).

Air travel wasn't an issue back then. The constitution was meant to protect us from tyranny. They play on peoples fears to pass more intrusive laws all in the name of safety. Its always about money.

 

[clanmcculloch]

Have you experienced anyone involved in your medical care telling you that you had to submit to whatever tests and procedure they decided on, that it wasn't open for discussion and that if you wouldn't agree to these conditions you would get no care?

Yes I have. And do you want to know what I did? I left that doctor's office and never returned. I found another doctor. That doctor had no ability to actually force those tests on me. He had the ability to force the tests on me IF I WANTED HIS SERVICES. I chose not to continue to partake of his services.

Jefferson, Franklin and the others were bright men, I'm sure they left airplanes and air travel out intentionally. Seriously, do you believe everything you write (or should I say Wright).

Air travel wasn't an issue back then. The constitution was meant to protect us from tyranny. They play on peoples fears to pass more intrusive laws all in the name of safety. Its always about money.

Our founding fathers did not state that we have the right to commercial transportation. That was available back then. No, they weren't psychics who could forsee air travel, but they were aware of the concept of paying for a service. Nowhere did they say that we have a right to services under whatever conditions we'd like. We do not have a consitutional right to paid services (such as commercial air travel) without meeting the requirements of that industry. One of the requirements for commercial air travel is to submit to one of the provided forms of TSA inspection.

They did say that you have every right to question and protest and nobody here is telling you otherwise. That doesn't mean you'll get to board that plane without submitting as the rules stand today.

 

[maxiesmom]

But I shouldn't have to. That is what is comes down to. I have a constitutional right to privacy. (Read the 9th Amendment - powers not enumerated to the gov't are retained by the people. This has been interpreted by the USSC to include a right to privacy). I should not have to get naked (virtual or not) for anyone in order to travel.
Other countries laugh at us because how paranoid the TSA is. We are the only country that has to take off our shoes to travel. Australia, Germany, France, UK, they all seem to be pretty secure and their planes aren't falling out of the sky.

There is no constitutional right to fly. Don't like the rules that go along with purchasing a ticket? Don't purchase one.

You do have a right to travel freely. However, that does not cover how you travel. If it did, I would demand my own plane whenever I fly!

 

[JB2K]

deegack - if you find the TSA's procedures to be too intrusive, I have a few alternate travel options for you on your next trip to WDW:

• I-95/I-4
  
• I-75/Tollways
  
• Amtrak (which may not be a "real" option for you, since it is a government entity)

Enough said.

 

[Lewisc]

People are living in another world if they think Disney is going to take on the TSA. People are living in another world if they think posting in internet discussion groups and blogs is going to change anything.

Some people think there is a safety issue. Convince the airlines that their employees, who are scanned multiple times per day, are at risk. Convince the unions who have employees who are being subjected to scans, that they are facing a health risk. Convice the FDA.

 

[disney david]

Since tsa going to put them in not matter what anyone says and they want to see something i am flying in dec and i going to wear i hate the tsa underwear to give them something to look at.

 

[DCTooTall]

Maybe you believe that the scans aren't pictures of actual human bodies, but that's a real stretch.

You know... This post actually made me chuckle a little bit. I've seen the example photos from both WBI technologies, and I gotta say......They aren't nudes. Take a look at any number of nude photography sites on the web and you can clearly see a difference.

I could say it may be like a picture of someone wearing a full body spandex suit, and while that could fall into the slightly embarrassing catagory for some people, It's still not nude.


And just because I decided to post on this thread, I figure I should get a quick disclaimer about where I stand on the subjects being seen in this thread.

1. I don't have any real problem with the idea of the scans. Another weapon in the arsenal of potential security measures that can be taken in deterring an incident.

2. I believe people are WAY too sensitive about the human body. We all got one. If you are over the age of 18, it's a pretty good chance you've seen one of the opposite sex in it's entirety at some point in your life. And there is a huge difference between a nude human body and a nude human body in a sexual context.

3. The government has used fear and other ideas to slowly increase their power and strip our right to privacy. The TSA is part of this issue, but is more of a symptom than the cause.

4. Everybody has the right to object to a differing opinion or procedure they don't agree with. You have the right to express your concerns about policies and procedures you don't agree too. You have the right to travel from point A to B without any documentation in this country. HOWEVER....Individual forms of transportation are not a guarenteed right. Just like driving is a priviledge which can be revoked, suspended, or has certain laws and conditions that must be followed to be allowed.... Flying is a priviledge that has it's own set of laws that must be followed. If you have a plane, you have laws and guidelines you must follow to legally fly it. If you have a car, you have laws and guidelines you must follow to legally drive it. If you get a ride in someone else's plane, they have laws they must follow... just like if someone gets in your car and you give them a ride, you have laws you must follow.

5. If you don't agree with the laws, rules, and guidelines for one method of transportation, you do have the right to choose another form if you so desire. Sure, it may not be as convenient, but that's life. If i didn't have a car and needed to get to the other side of town, I can ask a friend for a ride. Don't have a friend who can and is willing to give me a ride? Ok. I can call a taxi which can get me there almost as fast. What? don't want to take a cab for some reason? ok, i can take public transportation. What? don't want to take the bus? Ok, i'll ride a bike. no bike? how about I walk? Each option has advantages and disadvantages, so as an adult i can weigh my options and decide which one i'm most comfortable with. a trip across town is no different than one across state lines. there are multiple options and you can choose which one will meet your needs. If only 1 option will meet my needs (time constraints), then i either need to either select that option, or determine if my needs are flexible enough to allow me to choose another option.


6. Complaining to my Cable Company that my Gas bill is too high is going to do just about as much good as complaining to Disney that the Government laws are stupid is going to do. If you have a problem with something, take action to make your issue known to the party who is responsible for said issues or someone who has the power to do something about it.



eh..... something tells me i just opened a whole set of worms with this...

 

[N965VJ]

deegack - if you find the TSA's procedures to be too intrusive, I have a few alternate travel options for you on your next trip to WDW:

I-95/I-4
I-75/Tollways

The TSA has already started to set up shop on the Interstates.

Amtrak

Ditto for Amtrak.

Amtrak Office of Security Strategy and Special Operations (OSSSO), Amtrak Police, Transportation Security Administration (TSA) personnel and officers from approximately 100 commuter rail, state, and local police agencies mobilized today for the largest joint, simultaneous Northeast rail security operation of its kind, involving 150 railway stations between Fredericksburg, Virginia, and Essex Junction, Vermont.

I've seen the example photos from both WBI technologies, and I gotta say......They aren't nudes. Take a look at any number of nude photography sites on the web and you can clearly see a difference.

The TSA has yet to release an actual Nude-O-Scope image in the same size and resolution as what the screening clerk will see when he is alone in the booth. Bob at the TSA Blog has been saying for a year and a half now that they can’t release a specimen image because the manufacturer claims its proprietary information. Why are they afraid to show the traveling public this?

I don't have any real problem with the idea of the scans. Another weapon in the arsenal of potential security measures that can be taken in deterring an incident.

The Nude-O-Scopes do not detect explosives, and they are easily defeated by simply placing contraband under folds of flesh or in body cavities. Even the Government Accountability Office stated that a Nude-O-Scope would probably not have caught the underpants bomber.

Only three things are needed:

• X-ray
• Metal detectors
• Explosive trace detection/portals

 

[maxiesmom]

The TSA has already started to set up shop on the Interstates.



Ditto for Amtrak.

Amtrak Office of Security Strategy and Special Operations (OSSSO), Amtrak Police, Transportation Security Administration (TSA) personnel and officers from approximately 100 commuter rail, state, and local police agencies mobilized today for the largest joint, simultaneous Northeast rail security operation of its kind, involving 150 railway stations between Fredericksburg, Virginia, and Essex Junction, Vermont.





The TSA has yet to release an actual Nude-O-Scope image in the same size and resolution as what the screening clerk will see when he is alone in the booth. Bob at the TSA Blog has been saying for a year and a half now that they can’t release a specimen image because the manufacturer claims its proprietary information. Why are they afraid to show the traveling public this?





The Nude-O-Scopes do not detect explosives, and they are easily defeated by simply placing contraband under folds of flesh or in body cavities. Even the Government Accountability Office stated that a Nude-O-Scope would probably not have caught the underpants bomber.

Only three things are needed:

• X-ray
• Metal detectors
• Explosive trace detection/portals

If you have not seen any pictures, why do you insist on calling them Nude-O-Scopes? Calling the scan by that juvenile name doesn't help your argument.

If the scan was as detailed as you claim, wouldn't the folds of flesh be visible? Wouldn't they then know they had to wand that person as well?

And I think it is only your opinion that the scan isn't needed.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Yes I have. And do you want to know what I did? I left that doctor's office and never returned. I found another doctor. That doctor had no ability to actually force those tests on me. He had the ability to force the tests on me IF I WANTED HIS SERVICES. I chose not to continue to partake of his services.





Our founding fathers did not state that we have the right to commercial transportation. That was available back then. No, they weren't psychics who could forsee air travel, but they were aware of the concept of paying for a service. Nowhere did they say that we have a right to services under whatever conditions we'd like. We do not have a consitutional right to paid services (such as commercial air travel) without meeting the requirements of that industry. One of the requirements for commercial air travel is to submit to one of the provided forms of TSA inspection.

They did say that you have every right to question and protest and nobody here is telling you otherwise. That doesn't mean you'll get to board that plane without submitting as the rules stand today.

Kind of ironic . . . "Live free or die!"

 

[CPT Tripss]

If you have not seen any pictures, why do you insist on calling them Nude-O-Scopes? Calling the scan by that juvenile name doesn't help your argument.

If the scan was as detailed as you claim, wouldn't the folds of flesh be visible? Wouldn't they then know they had to wand that person as well?

And I think it is only your opinion that the scan isn't needed.

Actually, a higher percentage of people that got the invasive scans got patted down than those who went through the WTMD.

Now that TSA has announced that there is a new procedure, all bets are off. Your odds of being grasped and squeezed just increased. And, according to ABC News' ( a disney company) security expert, this technique would not have caught the "underwear bomber." Do should not feel safe.

 

[clanmcculloch]

Kind of ironic . . . "Live free or die!"

So, that's supposed to contribute to a discussion? Yes I live in NH and I understand what the constitution does and does not mean. And....? Your point? I am free to make decisions. I CHOOSE to accept the security measures in place and fly. I CHOSE to not accept what that doctor said and to find one who would treat me like a partner in my own healthcare. How am I not free? I make CHOICES and I own them and stand behind them. To me, that's the ultimate demonstration of freedom. Just because my choices differ from yours does not mean I'm not free. I value the freedom to make those choices as well as the freedom to stand up and say that I made those choices. Telling my I'm not free because those choices don't match yours just shows your own ignorance of what it really means to be free.

 

[Lewisc]

You know... This post actually made me chuckle a little bit. I've seen the example photos from both WBI technologies, and I gotta say......They aren't nudes. Take a look at any number of nude photography sites on the web and you can clearly see a difference.

I could say it may be like a picture of someone wearing a full body spandex suit, and while that could fall into the slightly embarrassing catagory for some people, It's still not nude.

If you have not seen any pictures, why do you insist on calling them Nude-O-Scopes? Calling the scan by that juvenile name doesn't help your argument.

If.

Agreed. The scans in no way resemble a nude photo. You couldn't recognize a person from the scan. A person who's looking for provocotive images would do better with a bathing suit picture from any popular magazine.

Terms like Nude O Scope are intentionally deceptive and dishonest. It gives a false impression as to what the scans look like to anyone who's neve seen a scan.

 

[N965VJ]

If you have not seen any pictures, why do you insist on calling them Nude-O-Scopes?

The TSA originally called the machines Whole Body Imaging, then changed to Advanced Imaging Technology in a thinly veiled effort to make them seem ambiguously benign. The fact is they are a virtual strip search, so Nude-O-Scope is a fitting term.

If the scan was as detailed as you claim, wouldn't the folds of flesh be visible?

That’s not how the technology works. It sees through clothes, but not through flesh and solid objects.

And I think it is only your opinion that the scan isn't needed.

Make no mistake; I am not advocating that screening is not necessary. The ineffective Nude-O-Scopes should be replaced by Explosive Trace Detection portals, known as puffers. A properly maintained puffer would have caught the underpants bomber. However, in the wake of that incident, former DHS head Michael Chertoff made the rounds in the media touting the Nude-O-Scopes. What he failed to disclose was that he now had a financial stake in that technology through his private sector firm.


An airport passengers’ rights group on Thursday criticized Chertoff’s use of his former government credentials to advocate for a product that benefits his clients.

“Mr. Chertoff should not be allowed to abuse the trust the public has placed in him as a former public servant to privately gain from the sale of full-body scanners under the pretense that the scanners would have detected this particular type of explosive,’’ said Kate Hanni, founder of FlyersRights.org, which opposes the use of the scanners.

The scans in no way resemble a nude photo.

This former TSA screener would disagree with you.

 

[HappyFingers]

As and Australian who was horrifed by the images of 911
as a visitor to USA and WDW next year
as the Father of 2 gorgeous kids

the relevant authorities can stick their hands, fingers, scans, probes, whatever they want to do is fine

If thats what it takes to ensure that me and my family dont wind up plowing into some building, then thats fine by me

the person who wrote this is mentally impaired in my opinion

what letter would he write when he is dead ?

 

[kaytieeldr]

The TSA has already started to set up shop on the Interstates.



Ditto for Amtrak.

Amtrak Office of Security Strategy and Special Operations (OSSSO), Amtrak Police, Transportation Security Administration (TSA) personnel and officers from approximately 100 commuter rail, state, and local police agencies mobilized today for the largest joint, simultaneous Northeast rail security operation of its kind, involving 150 railway stations between Fredericksburg, Virginia, and Essex Junction, Vermont.

Interesting. This was a one day event over two years ago, a demonstration, a test, involving over a hundred agencies and multiple forms of transit. May I ask how long it's going to be cited as "proof" the TSA has "already started" to set up operations on Amtrak?

The TSA has yet to release an actual Nude-O-Scope image in the same size and resolution as what the screening clerk will see when he is alone in the booth.

He? Why do people - especially, it seems, the people who fear the TSO will be getting "jollies" from the hundreds/thousands of daily scans viewed - always presume the TSOs assigned to that position will be male? You know, there are women in the workforce now

Bob at the TSA Blog has been saying for a year and a half now that they can’t release a specimen image because the manufacturer claims its proprietary information. Why are they afraid to show the traveling public this?

Since the manufacturer is claiming it's proprietary information, perhaps this question should be directed TO the manufacturer, not to the end user?

 

[padawans]

As and Australian who was horrifed by the images of 911
as a visitor to USA and WDW next year
as the Father of 2 gorgeous kids

the relevant authorities can stick their hands, fingers, scans, probes, whatever they want to do is fine

If thats what it takes to ensure that me and my family dont wind up plowing into some building, then thats fine by me

the person who wrote this is mentally impaired in my opinion

what letter would he write when he is dead ?

Just because you disagree with him does not mean he is mentally impaired. I would never let anybody stick their hands or fingers in/on my two beautiful kids. Whatever they wan't to do with you kids is fine? You have a better chance of winning the lottery then he does of being killed by a terrorist with or without the scanners.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Interesting. This was a one day event over two years ago, a demonstration, a test, involving over a hundred agencies and multiple forms of transit. May I ask how long it's going to be cited as "proof" the TSA has "already started" to set up operations on Amtrak?






He? Why do people - especially, it seems, the people who fear the TSO will be getting "jollies" from the hundreds/thousands of daily scans viewed - always presume the TSOs assigned to that position will be male? You know, there are women in the workforce now


Since the manufacturer is claiming it's proprietary information, perhaps this question should be directed TO the manufacturer, not to the end user?

"He" is an unfortunate convention of the English language. It's just something one (doesn't that sound so stuck up?) has to suck up and take like a man.

With neither the TSA nor the womanufacturer releasing actual speciwoman (suit ya better?) images all we have to go by are the old images. With the rapid advances in technology, you can bet that the images now generated are more detailed and provide more claity than the old image that were released. If the images aren't better, then TPTB in TSA are wasting our dollars worse than they are now.

 

[N965VJ]

May I ask how long it's going to be cited as "proof" the TSA has "already started" to set up operations on Amtrak?

Is this month recent enough?

Operation Railsafe Aims to Protect Rail Lines

08 Oct 2010

As Americans ride the rails in the coming days -- they should anticipate plenty of company -- in the form of a beefed up law enforcement presence on both Amtrak and commuter rail lines like MARTA.

<SNIP>

"Railsafe week is a joint effort among Amtrak, TSA and state and local transit authorities, to provide a more visible security presence at railway stations and platforms throughout the Northeast corridor," said Janet Napolitano, Secretary of Homeland Security.

Since the manufacturer is claiming it's proprietary information, perhaps this question should be directed TO the manufacturer, not to the end user?

That is not known for certain; just a claim made by a government mouthpiece.

 

[HappyFingers]

Orlando airport services Orlando yeh !

I fail to see how airport policy has anything, anything at all to do with wdw

Even if they wanted to
They could not influence this policy

They are wdw
Not airport security

End of discussion in my opinion

If the military got it's nose out of the culture of other countries be they savory or not perhaps we (planet earth) wouldn't be in this predicament in the first place

Write a letter to the military
This has nothing to do with the magic of wdw