Once again, a school, a shooter....and we do the drill yet again.....

[sam_gordon]

That’s great. I mean it. FWIW, I’ve never owned a gun, never lived in a home with guns, or even handled a gun, and I have zero need or interest in ever doing so. (Which I’m sure comes as no surprise.) Despite that, while I don’t agree with you and other gun owners, I do respect your right currently to own them. For me, it’s a case of just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. To be honest, I don’t understand some people’s obsession with guns. I support sensible gun control.

I personally am not against SOME gun control. The trick is going to be getting everyone to agree on where the "sensible" line is. I still think there are enough hard liners on BOTH sides that there won't be an agreement.

I once had someone tell me that if both sides are upset/disappointed in a an agreement, then it must be good. I don't have confidence that we'll get to that point.

 

[AppleDumpling]

Let me ask this... if the gun is the reason these things are happening, why hasn't @kdonnel or @mrodgers gone on a shooting rampage? I mean, the gun causes the situation, right?

That’s not what I said. We’ll never agree, but it’s nice to have a civil discussion.

Question for you and other gun owners...would you feel differently if your own child or loved one was killed by a random shooter?

 

[lifesavacation]

My nephew is a troubled kid. I think it was two years ago that he threatened to shoot up his middle school. Obviously he was kicked out of school and is now homeschooled. My BIL called asking me for parenting advice a couple of months ago and it just seems they don’t understand how screwed up he is. I told him to call a professional because he really needs intensive help. They had a lot of excuses for why he said what he said, mainly that he was bullied. Well, he’s homeschooled away from bullies now and still out of control.

 

[sam_gordon]

That’s not what I said. We’ll never agree, but it’s nice to have a civil discussion.

Question for you and other gun owners...would you feel differently if your own child or loved one was killed by a random shooter?

Again, my "gun ownership" is limited to a shotgun (and a BB gun) sitting on a closet shelf for the last 8 years. No ammunition in the house.

To answer your question, I honestly don't know. I would want the person brought to justice. If someone helped them, I would want THEM brought to justice. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

 

[mrodgers]

Yeah, I'm not big on guns or what they do, how they do it, etc. To me the handgun is the thing on TV that goes "bang" and then a pause, and then "bang". The semi automatic would sound more like "BANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANG" GOod to know that they make smaller guns that can be hidden more easily and shoot faster

Ok, since you admit to stating things that you know you have no knowledge about...

Take this as some well intended help and information. A semi-automatic gun, is one that shoots 1 bullet with 1 pull of the trigger. That describes probably 90% of the firearms people regularly purchase and own. You pull the trigger, a bullet is expelled, what is called the slide on a handgun for example, rifles including the scary AR15 and a regular old basic semi-automatic hunting rifle are the same principle... So the slide racks backwards exposing the leftover jacket (the part that holds the powder that the actual lead bullet propels from) ejects from the chamber, a spring in the magazine pushes the next bullet up and a very heavy spring forces the slide back into position pushing the next bullet into the chamber to be fired again with another separate pull of the trigger.

"Assault weapon" and "semi-automatic" are words that the media and a certain side I'll say use to describe and sensationalize guns to be scary. There is no such thing as an assault weapon, or more specifically anything you use as a weapon to assault someone should be defined as an assault weapon. That means that pen you carry in your purse that you could stab someone in the eye into their brain, the keys you carry to get into your house, the knives in your kitchen, the screwdriver you just used to tighten the screw to that drawer that was coming loose, if you use any of those as a weapon to assault someone, would you agree that would be considered an assault weapon?

The media and certain people project the thought that semi-automatic means what you said right there. Something that goes "BANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANG". You described a fully automatic weapon, something already pretty much banned, I think it is a very difficult license to get to own a full automatic. That is a gun that you pull and hold the trigger and it will rain out bullets repeatedly until empty. Yeah, those movies where they just spray a stream of bullets across the room taking down all the bad guys in one sweep, us regular folk don't have those, we can't get those. There's a license to get them.

Your regular old wood stalk hunting rifle, many of those are semi-automatic. Many are not. Those that are not, you have to do something to reset the firearm before pulling the trigger and firing another bullet. Maybe you fire the gun, then have to **** the hammer back, which will spin the cylinder in a revolver to line up the next round. Or you pull a lever, the bolt of a rifle. The spent cartridge is ejected and when you push the bolt back closed, the next bullet is ready for you to pull the trigger. A semi-automatic automates that action of needing to reset the gun, pulling the hammer back, cycling the bolt, racking the slide, the action of the gun resets itself to fire another round and only 1 other round with another single pull of the trigger.

 

[mrodgers]

Like we've never changed things in the constitution...

With a very difficult process. The founders were very smart.

You can't change our constitutional rights with one dude just signing an executive order.

 

[mrodgers]

Would you not agree that lives are more important than someone owning a material object?

Yes, I absolutely 100% agree with that right there. The ability to protect myself and my loved ones is of the utmost importance in my life, which is why I should be able to carry the best equalizer to put me at the advantage to protect my life and the life of my loved ones against someone who wants to do me and my loved ones' harm.

And absolutely, a firearm is a last resort, used to protect life and only protect life. Material objects do not matter and do not afford the same protections of a firearm as does my life and the lives of my loved ones.

 

[AppleDumpling]

Actually guns can be used for multiple things. The founding fathers felt (say that 10 times fast) that Americans should be allowed to have guns. Maybe they were wrong (they were about other things). So go about the process of changing the Constitution.

I’d love to. If only it were that easy. No one at the time could anticipate the type of guns made today. Does anyone honestly believe the FF would foresee school children being shot as an occurrence so common as to warrant the need to run practice drills to handle that possibility?

A gun is designed to injure or kill, period. Unless you tell me you only shoot at targets for fun. That’s fine I suppose, but not in any way necessary. Has no appeal to me. Neither do violent video games. Plenty of other hobbies to work on your hand-eye coordination. Maybe bowling.

 

[mrodgers]

FWIW, I own one shotgun. I think it's a .22. We inherited it when my FiL passed away. It hasn't come off the closet shelf since we got it 8+(?) years ago. There are no bullets for it in the house. I only say this to point out I'm not a "die hard" 2A advocate.

Nice that you lay that out for us.

I will also lay it out, I am 100% all in favor of the 2nd Amendment and how it is the most important amendment as without it, all others are subject to violate.

I own 1 Taurus G3C 9mm semi-automatic pistol. I only recently purchased it, during the craze that was going on. I do not carry it when going out in public. I do carry it often as we go hiking in the woods in rural PA where we could encounter a multitude of threats that are not human. I do not carry it when going out in public because I have not had any training. I did not take training because bullets were non-existent. If they were available, they were very very expensive. I do have some that I paid a lot of money for when I purchased the gun. I don't even have enough to take training with. So I do not carry it around when out of my home. Or I should say, I take it often because most of my out of the home is going to where my children are at mom's and then we often go on a hike of which I carry to protect them from non-human threats.

I see that rounds are becoming available again, still a bit pricey but they are available. That's one of my winter activities I plan. One of the reasons I got it was for recreation, my daughter loves shooting at her Uncle's. I figure she would really enjoy going to the range with me to at least shoot this one. Perhaps she would get her own, we are country folk.

To put the cost of it infringing on your rights in perspective, they won't let me come to the range because I don't have any training. It costs about $280 for training, pocket change I'm sure for many here, but for a lot of people, that's a bit of a sum of cash. They require you to have 280 rounds. At the time, that was about $600. $880, that's a serious sum. That's all I know about how to get training, go to the gun range. There are some gun shops that have trainers as well, pretty much the same thing. An old long time now retired coworker/friend of mine, his son is a firearms and concealed carry trainer, and he's exxxpensssive. I personally don't like the guy anyways, LOL.

 

[sam_gordon]

I’d love to. If only it were that easy. No one at the time could anticipate the type of guns made today. Does anyone honestly believe the FF would foresee school children being shot as an occurrence so common as to warrant the need to run practice drills to handle that possibility?

Nope. But they did come up with a way to change what they wrote.

A gun is designed to injure or kill, period. Unless you tell me you only shoot at targets for fun. That’s fine I suppose, but not in any way necessary. Has no appeal to me. Neither do violent video games. Plenty of other hobbies to work on your hand-eye coordination. Maybe bowling.

Again, the gun that I have has not been touched in 8 years. The last time I actually shot a gun was at Boy Scout camp 40+ years ago. Doesn't really appeal to me either, neither to violent video games (I like puzzles and sports). HOWEVER, I understand why SOME people want guns. As @mrodgers said, many gun owners want it for protection. Protection for them or for their family. That can be protection against humans that want to harm them or animals. I wonder if the parents of kids attacked by dogs wished they had a gun to protect the child.

Other gun owners use them for hunting. Yes, they are using them to kill. But (IMO) if they use the animal they shoot for food or to trade for something they feel is valuable, is that not a "good" use of the weapon?

 

[sam_gordon]

I am 100% all in favor of the 2nd Amendment and how it is the most important amendment as without it, all others are subject to violate.

THAT is a subject for an entirely different thread.

Personally I disagree with you, but don't want to sidetrack this discussion.

 

[Dakota731]

Did you ever wonder why there weren't mass school shootings 50 years ago? When i was in school, pickup trucks with rifle racks were in the school parking lot. A lot of times, the rifles were actually in the racks. There were kids that were loners. There were kids that were bullies. Yet you didn't hear about mass school shootings. Why?

The problem isn't the guns. Guns have been around for hundreds of years. Yet it's only in the past generation that there seems to be a problem.

We had the same thing at our rural high school - most of the boys had gun racks with guns in them on their trucks in the parking lot, so they could hunt or target shoot after school. And it was that way for decades yet never once was there ever a shooting. But sadly after the first school shooting and all the publicity surrounding those killers, the genie was out of the bottle. Ever since then, mentally ill young men have strived to glorify and imitate those murderers. And with social media giving these unstable minds a place to fester and multiply their anger, a perfect storm has been created.

 

[mrodgers]

THAT is a subject for an entirely different thread.

Personally I disagree with you, but don't want to sidetrack this discussion.

I was just offering what my opinion is as we are discussing it as it 100% relates to any talk about firearms. That is all. Making sure I'm an open book because it's enjoyable reading it and let known my experience. I'm not an expert of anything. I love that I have someone I trust and know to ask questions almost any time I want. Like spends all his idle time reading and discussing 2nd amendment, firearms, politically as well as in a like minded group. Always studying laws, as I said, he has his FFL. He's always looking at guns, talking about guns, reading about guns. Yeah, I suppose you would call him a gun nut. But folks use "gun nut" as a derogatory term and studying and being knowledgeable about something is good. Being highly knowledgeable about the firearm laws is a good thing.

 

[AppleDumpling]

I’d like to thank several of you gentlemen (at least I think you’re men) for keeping the discussion respectful while disagreeing. I’m glad the thread has remained open.

To be clear, I don’t lump all gun owners in with homicidal maniacs. I’m just sad, angry, and frustrated at the state of gun violence in the US, and wish we’d see some action taken to address this complex problem.

 

[VandVsmama]

It's a little sexist to assume that gun owners are just men.

 

[AppleDumpling]

It's a little sexist to assume that gun owners are just men.

I didn’t assume, just thought those I was conversing with (sam, mrodgers, kdonnel) happen to be, based on my memory of prior posts. If I’m mistaken, I apologize. Sorry, it’s late.

I certainly recognize that there are women who own guns (though last I heard, they are greatly outnumbered by men).

 

[CdnCarrie]

Nice that you lay that out for us.

I will also lay it out, I am 100% all in favor of the 2nd Amendment and how it is the most important amendment as without it, all others are subject to violate.




Again it’s like a different language. Your perspective is so foreign to me.

 

[Dakota731]

This latest young man’s family had him in a mental facility, had his guns taken away and monitored his communications yet it still happened. As much as it’s not popular to say, sometimes I think severely disturbed people need to be locked up for the protection of the innocent. The past couple of years we have seemed to care more about the rights of criminals than the protection of society. Crazy people are let out of jail after numerous violent offenses, we have cashless bail and police officers are discouraged arresting criminals then to have progressive DAs set them free.

 

[Moliphino]

Thank you for showing the maturity.

You could explain how it is OK to violate someone's rights by making laws on something that "shall not be infringed" which is the rule that specifies what the government can or can not do. But instead you choose to run to your room and slam the door?

And yet you ignore the "well regulated militia" part.

 

[MamaBelle4]

And yet you ignore the "well regulated militia" part.