Omers and Cupe Strike - Are you going to go out illegally?

[tink&cinderella]

Hi

For all those that are part of Cupe let me just say that bill 206 is a demeaning piece of legislation that discriminates against women and is unfair to every tax payer in the province. My understanding is that house taxes will also go up to "fund" the early retirement for Police, firefighters and paramedics and that they will get a higher percentage for their pension. I agree that they have "dangerous and stressful jobs" but so do some other professions that are part of the Omers plan and are totally excluded from this - they are good enough to fund the plans of everyone else but not receive the same benefit.

Anyway, although I disagree with the Bill, I take issue with an illegal strike as well. What will that mean for those of us who are not in the midst of contract negotiations with the union and would effectively be breaking the law.

If you are part of Omers and part of Cupe what do you plan to do???


Tink&Cinderella

 

[digskat]

Not part of either, but part of OPSEU. We had an 'early' retirement, called factor 80, in essence, if your age and years worked equaled 80, you could retire with a full pension. Government of Ontario recognized it, but we funded it. It disappeared, and now is '90'. When we attempted to actually improve factor 80, with a 25 year retirement window for Jail guards, the response was any improvements to pensions, would be funded solely by our pension trust, and they wouldn't even consider 80.
My understanding of their request, is that they would have a 25 years and out clause, which I agree with completely. There is a reason why these are 3 of the professions with the worst mortality rates.
OPSEU has several categories; OPS, BPS, CAAT, LCBO, etc, and when the OPS walked, the remainder didn't, because they had contracts. They did however give support. Hopefully, you can avoid any strike. After 2 in 10 years, I would hate to see anyone suffer through one. Good luck.

 

[SandraC]

Hi ~ I work in a school and someone said something about a possible strike? Is that true? Are teachers going on strike? S

 

[CharlesTD]

Hi ~ I work in a school and someone said something about a possible strike? Is that true? Are teachers going on strike? S

Teachers aids and assistnats are supposed ot be going out my sister just recieved her notice from the union on MOnday.

 

[Scratch42]

No Comment!

janet

 

[SandraC]

If there is a strike, how does that affect the kids during school? Thanks! Sandra

 

[tone.def]

If there is a strike, how does that affect the kids during school? Thanks! Sandra

In my last year of high school the teachers went on strike and their was no school!

I didn't mind very much, I worked full time at my job for the duration and saved money for college.


To Tink and Cinderella - I've checked out what this controversial bill is all about and it stinks! I don't know if an illegal strike will even stop the fat cats in gov't, they seem to plough through and do what they want anyway. Good luck!

 

[tink&cinderella]

Hi

I do support the police, firefighters and paramedics in getting an early retirement due to their high stress and dangerous work environment.

Now I am home because I was assaulted by a client on Valentines day in the presence of two officers and have a contusion on my face.

A couple of years ago they did a stress study on Child Welfare Social Workers and actually found that they ranked higher than firefighters especially with post taumatic stress.

In terms of it being a dangerous job - some police officers won't even go into the buildings that I need to visit and to be assaulted, when you have two officers for your protection, have an additional worker with you, and have a 2 year relationship with a client that has never been violent and to be assaulted is such a violation.

So I called McQuinty yesterday - Who ever said working for CAS is not dangerous and stressful. Sorry I just needed to vent.

Tink&Cinderella

 

[Azure]

There is a strike going on in my city. I'm not quiet sure what you all are talking about since my comprehension of learning right now is 0. I got a snow day today. My mom said it's because nobody's gonna plow the roads if they don't get paid for it.

 

[CharlesTD]

It isn't the teachers it is the teaching assistants and teachers aids so the children with special needs that these people help out with are being ased to stay home all otehr students are to be in school. We got a letter yesterday from DD's school informing us of this. DD will be at school we have no problems but those families that have children with special needs will have to find somone to look after thier child or stay home from work.

 

[cuff10126]

My understanding of this is that it is an illegal strike, since most CUPE locals have collective agreements in place. Sid Ryan is calling on everyone to walkout when the Bill goes for 3rd (?) reading. The local that covers employees where I work is talking to management on how to handle the situation, since they want to support the protest against Bill 206, but do not want to walk out illegally. My advice to anyone would be to get in touch with your union representative.

 

[tone.def]

Now I am home because I was assaulted by a client on Valentines day in the presence of two officers and have a contusion on my face.

 

[CanadianPaco]

Hi

I do support the police, firefighters and paramedics in getting an early retirement due to their high stress and dangerous work environment.

Now I am home because I was assaulted by a client on Valentines day in the presence of two officers and have a contusion on my face.

A couple of years ago they did a stress study on Child Welfare Social Workers and actually found that they ranked higher than firefighters especially with post taumatic stress.

In terms of it being a dangerous job - some police officers won't even go into the buildings that I need to visit and to be assaulted, when you have two officers for your protection, have an additional worker with you, and have a 2 year relationship with a client that has never been violent and to be assaulted is such a violation.

So I called McQuinty yesterday - Who ever said working for CAS is not dangerous and stressful. Sorry I just needed to vent.

Tink&Cinderella

Wow! I so agree about the dangerous job aspect. I have nothing but support for those positions (fire,police and ambulance) but they should get these benefits/increases through collective bargaining NOT through my OMERS. Who is this government to say which is a dangerous field and deserves more. Negoiate the benefits and leave my OMERS alone - OR - make their benefits available to all OMERS members.

I hope you are doing better!!

 

[tink&cinderella]

Thanks I am having my moments - had an "emotional episode" this a.m. but it's getting better.

I am looking forward to going to Disney during March Break.

Take care

 

[SandraC]

I think it's awesome that we can chat about a topic like this and not get flamed. You are all fabulous! Sandra

 

[digskat]

Wow! I so agree about the dangerous job aspect. I have nothing but support for those positions (fire,police and ambulance) but they should get these benefits/increases through collective bargaining NOT through my OMERS. Who is this government to say which is a dangerous field and deserves more. Negoiate the benefits and leave my OMERS alone - OR - make their benefits available to all OMERS members.

I hope you are doing better!!

welcome to public service.

OPSEU controlled their pension, and ran a yearly surplus, in the late 80's, the Provincial government took control and bankrupted it. Bob Rae returned it, OPTrust created a $900M surplus over the next 10 years, and the Tories wanted some money for a few friends, so hey what a great source of cash.....In 2002, they attempted to 'negotiate' control back. They failed. So they passed (then) Bill 25, which gave them control of surplus pension funds, and they whittled away $450M.
It is tough to fight an employer who happens to have all of the power, money, media control, etc. We experienced it not only during strikes of 1996 and 2002, but also during negotiations in 1999 and 2005. We were demonized in the press, and the public was led to believe it was all about money. We wanted successor rights back (McGuinty has yet to follow through on that promise too), we wanted an end to privatization, we wanted a return of meat inspectors, better benefits, and pension. The press played up the money, and portrayed us as over-paid pencil pushers........like tink & cinderella, the persona of our jobs don't equate to that. Probation and Parole Officers going into nasty neighbourhoods to meet with questionable characters, jail guards dealing with an unsavoury element, institution nurses dealing with disease, snow plow operators clearing roads, that are unfit for anyone else to drive.
Again, good luck to OMERS and CUPE, you are fighting an uphill battle, and hopefully, you can win it without disruption. Public support will not be with you, and the government will play all sorts of games.

 

[BitsnBearsMom]

welcome to public service.

the persona of our jobs don't equate to that. Probation and Parole Officers going into nasty neighbourhoods to meet with questionable characters, jail guards dealing with an unsavoury element, institution nurses dealing with disease, snow plow operators clearing roads, that are unfit for anyone else to drive.

Not trying to flame or cause a huge uproar but don't these people choose these vocations knowing the dangers involved... go in with their eyes open so to speak?
I do agree that if your pension is in place then it should darn well be left alone.... don't agree with what the gov. has done to all of them.
On the other side.... I have a ds that has had all of 2 swimming lessons (attempting to get the previous swim class dropout to learn how to swim) and now that he's finally enjoying it he's been told nope - no more b/c we are on strike. Library's are closed. No garbage pick up. The roads with the freezing rain yesterday were 'supposed' to have 'normal' maintenance but they didn't come to do the bus route here until after noon (is usually done by 6am) and our roads here were just dangerous!!
What really do 'strikes' solve other then to 'tick off' the general public?
Again... all this is said timidly/calmly b/c I don't do flaming or fighting!! Just want to understand!

 

[digskat]

I'm not going to flame you, there is no benefit to that. I hope I can answer a few questions though.
imagine if no one was willing to take the risk. Knowledge of the risk doesn't make it any better. You take these jobs because you want to make things better, to help people. Unfortunately, if you aren't killed performing the job, a heart attack usually does it shortly after retirement. I go to work every day, knowing someone may stab me, I may be taken hostage, something could go really bad. It doesn't make it better for my family, it doesn't make it better for me. It is a job that needs to be done, and if I don't do it someone else has to. I feel I do a good job, that I perform a service to the public.

as for the issues with strikes....... no one wants to go on strike, as I have said, I've been through 2 in 10 years, and getting 20% of your wages, makes paying bills a little difficult. Unfortunately, when a public employee, the government has total control, and they control negotiating. Our previous contract expired December 31, 2004, and government negotiators left our people sitting at the table, alonet, from mid-December until almost March. When they finally arrived, they refused to put an offer on the table, or respond to our offer. After 6 months with no contract, we were fortunate enough to avoid a strike. In 2002, we were not that lucky, we were out for almost 8 weeks. The corrections table sat from early December 2001, until early May, without a single government negotiator entering the room. This is how they treat the public employees who have the right to strike.....my wife is a nurse, and doesn't have that 'luxury', so our government chose to let them go more than 2 years witout a contract, as a reward for their work during SARS.
People tend to say, Why don't teachers strike during the summer, so students aren't affected? It is like the old saying...If a tree falls in the forest, does anyone hear? A summer strike has no teeth, the government will continue to ignore them until it affects them. We wanted to negotiate a new conract before ours expired, and they had no interest. It's their playground, and all we can do is decide whether or not to play. Hopefully McGuinty has the class to negotiate, and avoid a dispute, but he announced last night that he still intends to force the bill through. Remember, these same members of CUPE, are just as affected as you by a work stoppage, just like children of teachers are affected, members of OPSEU couldn't get marriage/drivers licences or death certificates, they are also victims, the government sets the rules.

In Dalton's acceptance speech, he said he 'respected and valued the work' his public servants did, and that he looked forward to working with us. A year later, his people had to be forced, by concilliation, (after refusing to negotiate for 7 months) to bargain with the same public servants. Imagine if he didn't respect us so much.


Good luck CUPE

 

[BitsnBearsMom]

Thanks for sharing your side and I really do hope things get resolved fast for everyone's benefit!!

 

[MultiMut]

I can't believe I'm posting on this topic DIS Boards! But I know something about pensions, so I couldn't resist....

My opinion of McGuinty has really dropped on this one. He is following through on a campaign promise he made to police/firefighters that he would introduce legislation that would allow them to negotiate special improved early retirement benefits. He didn't keep any of his other campaign promises, and he has to pick his most flawed and uninformed promise and decide to stick with it against severe opposition from the unions and from both the left and right side of the political spectrum.

This bill does not grant improvements, but merely gives these groups the right to negotiate with municipalities for these pension improvements. Of course what will then happen is that one municipality will succumb to pressure to provide, and then ultimately it will be provided to all police/firefighters.

I'm not going to comment on whether these groups "deserve" special treatment or not. Yes they have dangerous jobs. But the reality is that if you expect unreduced retirement benefits after 25 years of work, and to have benefits paid to you for the 30-35 years of expected lifetime, that is an extremely expensive promise. "Freedom 49" will require annual pension contributions of 30% of pay! Who is prepared to pay that much? We'd all love to do it, but it is not affordable. Plus it creates a huge retention problem in these services, because you'd be a fool to stay after 25 years, when you can retire on full pension and then get another job elsewhere (e.g. with another police force in another pension plan).

The pension experts do not think this is a good idea. Everyone wants a better pension, but at some point, a pension plan is really as good as it can afford to be and additional improvements cost too much money. The municipalities are afraid of this bill.

CUPE doesn't like the risk that this type of provision creates for all members. CUPE is worried that if there are pension plan losses (because early retirement cost more than expected), that these losses would have to be made up by extra contributions by all OMERS members. There are so many retirees already in OMERS, and the proportion keeps increasing. If assets don't do as well as expected, the losses must be made up by higher contributions by the municipalities and by the active employees. As the proportion active declines, actives could fact some astronomical pension contribution requirements if things don't work out as planned. Ontario Teachers is already facing this problem of large deficits to be funded by a smaller active group. Bill 206 would make those problems seem like small potatoes.