Old vs. new

[cruise182]

I feel as though Disney is not putting the effort into the new rides. The old rides like splash mountain were/are great. good theme a lot of mechanical animation. The newer rides seem a little ...dare I say...cheap. Pooh for instance.....was not very good ...seemed like a bunch of wood cut outs and not much else. Goofy barnstormer ok but it only last 15 seconds and again not much else then going through a barn.. Couldn’t they of done a bit more? Maybe have a few Goofy’s along the way???………. Kali rapids .......just one little seen showing a forest fire and again very short. You take out the climb up the rapids and this ride is very very short. Buzz light year not much animatronics just some moving cut outs going back and forth. I was expecting more things flying over you and at you. I am sorry but the family and I will take Splash mountain, Big thunder rail road any day over the newer rides. Even thunder mountain has a good them and also it was a little longer then the average roller coaster since they take you up 3 inclines. It was like going on three roller coasters in one shot. am I the only one that feels this way?

 

[lovethattink]

My family loves Buzz! DS(10) and DH are having a great time figuring out which targets get you the most points. (Men in Black at Island of adventure is a bit more complex, but it has height restrictions and is pretty scarry for young kids) Disney's Buzz is great for the whole family. Even our baby loves the lights and colors. As for the Pooh attraction, DH, baby and I love it. DS is bored with it. Big Thunder Mountain is so rough on the body. I'll take the newer smoother Rock 'n Roller coaster, anyday, over that one.

 

[crcormier]

I'd have to respectfully disagree. Splash is fantastic, but I think some of the new attractions are great. ToT has details up the wazoo. I thought Pooh was cute, but I was a big fan of Mr. Toad so that's the only reason I didn't like it very much. I love Buzz, I think it was a great re-use of the existing attraction there. Mission Space is well done, Rock N Roller Coaster, and from the looks of it, Expedition Everest should be fantastic! I'm gonna keep going and going on both the new and the old attractions.

 

[SnackyStacky]

There actually used to be a lot of debates about this very thing on the Rumors & News boards. (They were friendly debates - not like debate board debates! )

A number of people feel the same way that you do - that Disney's quality is slipping.

I also agree with you! I still think Disney is the best enterprise of its kind, but that management has forgotten the roots of the Disney company.

About a year ago, there was a huge push to get Michael Eisner out of office. It's still going on, and the whole effort is being led by Walt's nephew, Roy Disney. Check out www.savedisney.com for lots more info.

 

[Ilovestitch]

I wouldn't necessarily call Barnstormer new... Anyways, what about new rides like Mission Space, Soarin' and Expedition Everest- those are new rides and definitly not cheap. -Stephanie

 

[SnackyStacky]

Stephanie - YOu're right. neither Soarin' nor Mission:Space is cheap.

My problem with Soarin' is that it's recycled. Yeah, it'll be neat to have something new at Epcot, but once upon a time, Disney wasn't content to just create one ride and put it in all their parks. But researching and developing new technology takes a lot more money than just putting something in that's already been done. I would have rather waited for something completely new at Epcot.

My beef with Mission: Space is a very personal one. I don't think Disney has EVER done simulators well. That's all Mission:Space is - an overblown simulator. Universal has blown Disney out of the water with their simulator experiences. Spiderman is THE best available.

I'm cautiously optimistic for Everest. I'm REALLY excited to see if Disney can once again be what they once were!!!!

 

[Chuck S]

Originally posted by SnackyStacky
....but once upon a time, Disney wasn't content to just create one ride and put it in all their parks

Hmmm, when WDW first opened the MK was, with minor differences because of climate, almost a carbon copy of Disneyland. Most rides in the MK are either paterned after DL rides, or newer DL rides are patterned after MK rides. The one notable exception at DL is Indiana Jones. And when this ride technology was rethemed at WDW (Countdown to Extinction/Dinosaur) there were complaints that is wasn't "Like the ride at DL".

As far as "newer rides" Fantasyland (Pooh, etc) have always been more classic dark ride types of things, so no surprise there that Pooh follows that tradition. Buzz also simply replaced a similar style themed ride. Disney parks are blends of classic dark rides, animatronic story telling theaters (CoP, CBJ, Tiki Room), well themed semi-thrill dark rides (PoC, Haunted Mansion), well themed popular off the shelf rides (Splash, Big Thunder, Space Mtn) and new technologies (Mission Space, Soarin', etc). I would expect it will continue this way, with a sprinkling of new attractions in each category during future construction.

 

[SnackyStacky]

Originally posted by Chuck S
Hmmm, when WDW first opened the MK was, with minor differences because of climate, almost a carbon copy of Disneyland. Most rides in the MK are either paterned after DL rides, or newer DL rides are patterned after MK rides. The one notable exception at DL is Indiana Jones. And when this ride technology was rethemed at WDW (Countdown to Extinction/Dinosaur) there were complaints that is wasn't "Like the ride at DL".

As far as "newer rides" Fantasyland (Pooh, etc) have always been more classic dark ride types of things, so no surprise there that Pooh follows that tradition. Buzz also simply replaced a similar style themed ride. Disney parks are blends of classic dark rides, animatronic story telling theaters (CoP, CBJ, Tiki Room), well themed semi-thrill dark rides (PoC, Haunted Mansion), well themed popular off the shelf rides (Splash, Big Thunder, Space Mtn) and new technologies (Mission Space, Soarin', etc). I would expect it will continue this way, with a sprinkling of new attractions in each category during future construction.

The reason that The Magic Kingdom mirrors Disneyland is because Walt died before construction started. The Imagineers were at a loss for how to go about creating what Walt wanted, so instead - they opted to copy Disneyland. The main difference is that The Magic Kingdom was designed to handle crowd flow better than Disneyland was - as well as the Utilidors - to provide better show.

 

[SnackyStacky]

After a bit of digging, I found the article on JimHillMedia.com that I was looking for.

Take a look at it (it's a very long, 9 part article) and you'll see that Frontierland was to be NOTHING like Disneyland's Frontierland.

 

[tjkraz]

If one really wants to...discuss...this topic fairly (old vs. new), I think you need to start by establishing the starting point for the debate. To the original poster: when exactly do you contend this decline in qualtiy began?

Face it: even the Imagineers of old laid some eggs in their time.

Throwing the whole concept of a "classic" attraction out the window, I'd love to hear the argument that Peter Pan's Flight required any more "effort" than Buzz Lightyear. Anyone interested in shutting-down Mickey's Philharmagic to bring back Captain Eo???

Given the fact that Goofy's Barnstormer was aimed children ages 3+, I think it's pretty off-base to imply that it could (or should) have been a BTMR clone.

Interesting that you put Kali River Rapids on the list. No, it really isn't a very good attraction. But the main reason for its failure, IMO, is that the Imagineers actually let the backstory interfere with the ride mechanics.

 

[cruise182]

Originally posted by tjkraz
If one really wants to...discuss...this topic fairly (old vs. new), I think you need to start by establishing the starting point for the debate. To the original poster: when exactly do you contend this decline in qualtiy began?

Face it: even the Imagineers of old laid some eggs in their time.

Throwing the whole concept of a "classic" attraction out the window, I'd love to hear the argument that Peter Pan's Flight required any more "effort" than Buzz Lightyear. Anyone interested in shutting-down Mickey's Philharmagic to bring back Captain Eo???

Given the fact that Goofy's Barnstormer was aimed children ages 3+, I think it's pretty off-base to imply that it could (or should) have been a BTMR clone.

Interesting that you put Kali River Rapids on the list. No, it really isn't a very good attraction. But the main reason for its failure, IMO, is that the Imagineers actually let the backstory interfere with the ride mechanics.

First and fore most I wasn't trying to start a "debate"
2nd Sorry that I am not at your caliber as far as posting(I sensed your demeaning tone)

Now for your question "when exactly do you contend this decline in quality began?" I do not know. As I have only been to Disney one other time in the mid 90's for one day......I was just going by the feel of some of the newer rides vs the old.

You write "I'd love to hear the argument that Peter Pan's Flight required any more "effort" than Buzz Light-year" My opinion and only my opinion Peter pan is original......just the way your vehicle flies over the set rather then the old drive through dark ride gives it the edge in my book!! My kids 5 and 10 both liked Peter Pan but did not like pooh. I personally would not compare pooh to Peter pan but rather Snow white which again my kids liked more then pooh.

Next you write "Given the fact that Goofy's Barnstormer was aimed children ages 3+, I think it's pretty off-base to imply that it could (or should) have been a BTMR clone." did I say I wanted a clone?? I think not. I was just demonstrating that A) BTMR was a longer ride and B) better themed. It was way to short and again did not have the Disney magic. Being that it is aimed at 3+ they could of done more with some characters even if it was only during the incline!!


finally you say "Interesting that you put Kali River Rapids on the list. No, it really isn't a very good attraction. But the main reason for its failure, IMO, is that the Imaginers actually let the back story interfere with the ride mechanics" What ever the reason they dropped the ball again.

 

[tjkraz]

Let me remind you that this thread began with your 100 words denoucning the current state of WDW attraction development and closed with the question "am I the only one that feels this way?"

My post began as an invitation to you to set the starting point for the discussion. If you want to label my post as "demeaning", so be it. I won't even argue with that.

But I am not the one playing Monday Morning Quarterback with all of the wornderful work that the Imagineers have done over the years. I believe that they, as a group, are wonderfully creative, imaginative folks who have given me any my family years of joy at four georgous theme parks in central Florida. And after visiting WDW many times over the last decade, no, I don't believe there has been a measurable decline in the quality of the work they perform.

You are welcome to like whichever rides you choose to like. But to argue that the technical and asthetic merits of Snow White outweigh those of "Pooh" doesn't really help your position much, IMO. No, Pooh isn't the Haunted Mansion and never will be. But I don't think they'll be installing FastPass kiosks at Snow White anytime soon.

If you really want to discuss this alleged decline in quality, then start by defining "old rides" vs "new rides". I'll be more than happy to share my thoughts.

Rather than issuing a blanket denouncement of all of the work Imagineering has turned out over the last (unidentified) years, I choose to applaud all of their wonderful successes and forgive (or at least forget) the few failures that have also resulted.

 

[cruise182]

Originally posted by tjkraz
Let me remind you that this thread began with your 100 words denoucning the current state of WDW attraction development and closed with the question "am I the only one that feels this way?"

Yes i did close it with that question. A simple yes or no with your reasoning would have serfised. Oh and thanks for counting my words. why are you taking my opinion so personally?

But I am not the one playing Monday Morning Quarterback

I do not intend on playing monday morning quarterback!! I am simply stating that I like the older rides better then the newer ones. Period. I am not saying they are indeed bad but just that I did not care for the newer rides.

with all of the wornderful work that the Imagineers have done over the years. I believe that they, as a group, are wonderfully creative, imaginative folks who have given me any my family years of joy at four georgous theme parks in central Florida. And after visiting WDW many times over the last decade, no, I don't believe there has been a measurable decline in the quality of the work they perform.

Thanks for answering my question. That is the sort of response I was looking for from the begginnig!!

You are welcome to like whichever rides you choose to like.

Why thank you!!

If you really want to discuss this alleged decline in quality, then start by defining "old rides" vs "new rides".

I do not want to take a history lesson in when each and every ride was developed. My point is the older rides are better then the newer ones in my book

Rather than issuing a blanket denouncement of all of the work Imagineering has turned out over the last (unidentified) years, I choose to applaud all of their wonderful successes and forgive (or at least forget) the few failures that have also resulted. [/B]

Good for you. here's a pat on the back to you and them!!

 

[reedycreek]

my 2 cents:

in my opinion, there really has not been a great eticket attraction to WDW since splash mountain, maybe TOT.

all this new stuff they are putting in the parks is either a) recycled (dinousour is the same technology as indiana at DL and mission space is just an upgraded simulator ride found anywhere), b) similar to park technology found at six flags (kali river, whatever that spinning dinosour roller coaster is at AK), c) rethemed (bugs life, mickeys philharmagic, honey i shrunk are all the same except for story line, d) half-baked thrill rides*(test track is cool, but space mountain made me scream a lot more).

*exceptions would be ROR and TOT though, which are pretty
ingenious works of imagineering.

i love disney world, and agree that they have provided me quality and great entertainment for a long time. HOWEVER, my last visit a few weeks ago left me very dissapointed. i had not been to WDW since AK opened, nor had Test Track or Mission Space opened. i thought World of Motion was a much more creative, Disney-esque production than Test Track and was floored that they replaced WOM with that nonsense. secondly, Horizons was another Disney masterpiece (with a definite hint of Walt Disney inspiration throughout the ride) and to replace it with the monstrosity called Mission Space was appalling. An lasty, AK was a zoo, i dont care what they say. it was boring, uninspired, and uninteresting to me...yes, there were some very nice aspects to it, but OVERALL, i disliked it very much. i felt Walt would roll in his grave if he saw it.

Walt Disney re-invented the theme park because he hated to quality of travelling carnivals, and boring theme parks. It seems Disney is leaning into the direction of following the industry instead of leading it with the utter lack of creativity over the past decade. Again, there are definite exceptions, and at times Imagineering does pull out something not only special, but worthy of being called an ETICKET, however, I am not impressed OVERALL with their contributions lately. when i think back to WDW as a kid, i remember things like HM, POTC, Spaceship Earth, the original Journey into Imagination (by the way, the new one was pitiful, and I was outraged by it), WOM, Horizons, Peter Pan, Space Mtn, etc. When I think back to my recent vacation, I remember the same rides (withuot the unfortunate ones that didnt made the cut in Disneys attempt to retheme EPCOT center and put more thrills in place). Oh by the way, what is the theme of Future World now? I dont see how the attracions portray that theme at all anymore...

anyway, not trying to be bitter, i still love Disney, but am very frustrated with the way things have been going lately.

 

[SnackyStacky]

I sense a bit of heat entering this discussion.

Just a gentle reminder to keep it civil, please. Thankee!

Now to add my next $.05 or $.06.

I DO believe that what has come out of Imagineering is of lesser quality than what was done in the past. If you want proof, just look at California Adventure.

They can't even GIVE away admission to it!

BUT, I don't think it has to do as much with the Imagineers so much as it does the company.

I bring up SaveDisney.com again. They ran an article that delinated all of the management shifts within Disney - and Imagineering was a victim of those shifts.

Not only that, but their budgets have been cut. When Splash Mountain was proposed, Michael Eisner's response to the plans was: "We can't afford to build this!" To which Frank Wells replied: "We can't afford NOT to build this!"

It's that bottom line mentality that is causing inferior products to come out of Imagineering.

If you care to read the article, it can be found here:
http://www.savedisney.com/news/editorials/tm081904.1.asp

 

[3MouseMom]

I didn't get the impression that the OP was being overly harsh or anything. I like all the rides mentioned, but I have to say that after I read all the great stuff about Pooh and Buzz (here, I think), then rode them, my first reaction was that they were...I'll use the same word OP did because it was my exact thought...well, kinda cheap. I don't mean to upset anyone, and it's not that we didn't have fun, but they seem like budget versions of what could have been even better. It seemed to me that the materiels were cheap and slapped together ...cardboard cutouts I think OP said. I don't have any argument with the theming as much as how it was executed, if that makes sense. I ride Peter Pan and look down and actually see tiny headlights/cars moving on the London streets and it looks real, even with old technology. It's amazing. But then Pooh looked liked cardboard.

Now barnsormer I just think of as a kiddie rollercoaster, designed for the little ones too nervous to go on the big rides. It worked for us with a nervous 4 yo. I didn't think it was cheap in the same way at all, but yea, a few little disney-esque features would make it a little more special.

We haven't even talked about Dinoland in the AK...I better not go there! lol! (I personally...just my opinion, no harm meant, wish I could wisk Dinosaur the ride out of there so I never have to enter that area again)....