Old FP, New FP+

[summerskye]

I'm going to be a bit simplistic in offering an explanation, so I apologize in advance.

There is one stat provided by Disney that I don't think anyone will dispute:

• 50% of previous park guests did not use FP.

Now let's assume that Disney was being proactive, noticed increasing crowds and standby lines, correctly assumed that was only going to get worse in years to come, and wanted to do something about it - besides adding new attractions, of course, which could have the effect of further increasing crowd levels, aggravating the original problem, and ultimately calling for the original solution anyway.

So Disney comes up with an elaborate (and patented) system designed to:

• Increase guest usage of the reservation system to as close to 100% as possible
  
• Add more attractions - if not all of them - to the pool of resources available that can be scheduled
  
• Manage, as best and as closely as possible, the daily guest experience in a manner that attempts to accommodate both learned and predicted personal preference

What we have is FP+ and it is entirely possible that "3 in one park" has nothing to do with what the average guest used in the past and how they used them but is based more on what the current pool of you-can-schedule resources can accommodate on any given day based on a particular daily guest load established by Disney planners and managed as best as possible by an app (MDE) using algorithms and formulas and predictive behaviors intended to meet the above outlined objectives as efficiently as possible.

Which is, incidentally, why they also commented they were able to accommodate an additional 3K guests in MK over the holidays.


(And Shaden, I responded to your PM but I don't know if it went thru).

...

You lost me at "simplistic"...

Let me get this straight. You only get 3 FPs ???

 

[ktlm]

A lot of people seem to be complaining about the new system only limiting people to 3 FP's per day. While I understand the problem I am confused as to the problem.
1. In the past were you not limited in the manner that one FP had to be expired before you could get another FP? For example if it was 10:00 am and I got a FP for Splash Mountain at 1:15 -2:15 didn't it not allow me to have another FP until after the first one expired? If I am right the theoretically if around 10:00 am I got a FP for the toy story ride at HS and by that time most of them were gone or if I was lucky I might get 8:45-9:45 then I was really limited to just the one FP.

As others have said- it was a max of 2 hours before you could pull another, earlier if your ride time was before that. In our experience while TSMM would likely be gone by then, and Soarin might possibly be gone (but in our experience usually wasn't), there was still a lot of FP availability throughout the parks, often even into the late afternoon. Here is how we felt about it. With the old system, we could get FPs based on how our day was going, where we were in the parks, how the ride lines were on any particular day, which rides actually needed them. When that 2 hours was up, or when we had ridden the ride if sooner, we could judge how our day was, and where we were in the parks and pull a new FP based on that and also based on which rides had longer lines that day. We might not need one for things. Now we are "locked in" 60 days in advance and have to guess where we will be in the park on any given day and what ride will need FPs. We found that did not work well at all. We were never where we thought we were going to be, even though I had spent 3 hours tweaking FP+ to try to get our times exactly right. We wound up having to criss-cross the park and also having FP+ for things that didn't need them.

For example, when we head to SM in the middle of the day- we might find a 20 minute line and we might get in it...or we might find a 45 minute line, but that we can pull a FP with a time in an hour- so we pull FP. Now, we are "locked in" to a SM FP+ even if the standby line is only 10 minutes when it is our time for the ride. Our experience was changing it to something else, or another time on MDE wasn't happening. MDE rarely worked in the parks and if it did, more often than not, it told us nothing was available. So, it is use it when you don't need it. Essentially, you are stuck with 2 FP+ that day because you are forced to use the 3rd one on something you don't really need a FP for because the system won't let you change it to anything you DO actually need that day. Also- since you have to save one for later- when it turns out you didn't need it- you miss out on the fact you could have used one earlier. Had we known that at 3:00 p.m., the SM line was only going to be 10-20 minutes- we would have used our FP+ for something else earlier. The old system we would have FP something earlier and then pulled a FP or not later for SM depending on need. Now we didn't pull something else because we had to set one aside for SM later that it turned out we didn't even need and at that time we could not get anything else.

Our FP+ trip was when FP- was still in effect- so as example, we weren't going to make our Star Tours FP+ because we were stuck in a long line to meet Sophia which DD just had to do once she saw her. MDE told me nothing was available at all to take the place of our Star Tours FP+ -not only were there no Star Tours times, but it told me there was nothing else available AT ALL in the park the rest of that day. I ran over to Star Tours with our KTTW cards and when I got there the line was 10 minutes and FP were available that kicked in 45 minutes later- this was when MDE said there were none available the rest of the day. So I grabbed the FPs and went back to my family. If the same thing happens now that there is no FP-, we would have missed our FP+ time, not been able to change times or even get a FP+ for anything else, and would have been stuck dealing with whatever the regular line was (granted standby was only 20 minutes when we went over there to use our FP-, but that is still 20 minutes we would have lost) and only had 2 FP+ that day.

The system simply does not take into account the conditions in the park or how your day is going. You are "locked in".

Also- as far as the 3 limit, here are the other major problems. Let's say we only needed 3, which on some days we didn't do more than that, or we might even do less. At MK, most likely all 3 of those would have been for Peter Pan, DD's favorite. When she was little that is about the only thing we used FP for at MK, and we always FP it more than once. When she was a pre-schooler, if she only got to ride Peter Pan once, that wasn't a good MK day. Even now that she is 7, she hates BTMRR, isn't a fan of Splash, and loves Peter Pan. So, even now, while we would use one for SM, we would still do multiple for Peter Pan. Can't do that with FP+.

Also, when she was small and wouldn't ride Space Mountain, DH and I would FP that and take turns riding. Now, if she was still little or wouldn't ride SM, for DH and I to do that, would take away a FP+ from her. When she was little, she couldn't ride alone, so that means either DH and I forego SM FP+, so she gets her 3 attractions, or she doesn't get to use one and she basically is stuck with 2 FP+.

Also- with tiers, you don't really get 3 at some parks. For example, we usually only pulled 2 FPs at EPCOT, Soarin and Test Track. Sometimes we would pull Soarin twice, so we would pull 3 for the day. Now with the tiers we can only pull Soarin OR Test Track- not both. Also, we can't do Soarin twice anymore. Nothing on Tier 2 is anything we have ever needed or pulled a FP for--- so essentially we are limited to 1 FP at EPCOT now.

Let's talk DHS. RNRR is my favorite there. DH loves it too. TSMM is DD's favorite there and I have to admit I love it too. In the old days after our time passed from our initial TSMM FP run had passed and we could get another, DH and I would pull RNRR FPs and take turns riding. Now with the tiers, we can't do that because if we use a FP+ on RNRR, we can't FP+ TSMM for DD. That is in addition to the fact that if we use a FP+ for something we want to ride, but she doesn't, we take away one from her because we can't ride with her. We can ride the single rider line for RNRR if it is short enough, but if it is long DH and I won't make the other and DD wait, so we will have to skip it. That means I have to give up a ride I really like. DH is really the only one that likes TOT. He will often FP it himself and ride it. Now, he can't do that without giving up something with our family, because if he uses a FP+ on that, then he can't go with us on something else.


We are just a family of 3 too. Imagine a family with kids who have different favorites, but each of their favorites is a tier one. Mom and Dad have to split up with one going with each kid. What if you have 3 kids at EPCOT and 1 wants Soarin, 1 wants Test Track and 1 just wants to meet Mickey and Minnie at the character spot? Those are all tier one- so one kid is going to be out of luck because even splitting up- the parents can only do 2. Instead of being able to just time it in terms of which FPs run out quicker and doing those 1st and then picking up your next FP- now you have to pick between kids. It really is a "break up family" FP now. You essentially only get 3 FP+ a day IF everyone in the family wants the same 3 things. Now- either the family splits, or someone doesn't get what they want. Before it was just a matter of adjusting the timing based on the popularity/run out times and everyone got their favorite as a FP some time during the day.

Not really in line with your being confused with why the 3 limit bothers people, but I will throw in one more example of problems we personally have with FP+. Our very very close friends live in Florida. When we go to WDW- they meet us and spend a weekend with us. They stay at Shades of Green as they are a retired military family. Now with FP+ the families/kids can't all ride together. We get our FP+, 60 days in advance. Shades of Green doesn't have MB/FP+ so they have to use the kiosks the day of. There is no way our times are going to match up doing that. They are not going to be able to get the times we already have- and if we try to change to match them, it is doubtful that we would be able to. Even if we stand in line behind them at a kiosk- there is no guarantee the time they got will be an option for us to change to. And as far as using MDE to change while standing at the kiosk with them-again our experience was that MDE glitched constantly and it was about impossible to change anything in the parks. That isn't a limit problem- but it is a problem for anyone that goes and meets family, but party of you are staying at Shades of Green, Swan, Dolpin or offsite.

 

[kasowell]

On the face of it the new FP+ sounds good and for me I think it will. Will know later this year. I know we are the exception because if we ride something or not it's just not that important. We just love being at the happiest place on earth. I do understand everyone's consternation though.

I'm the original poster and I feel I really need to say this and will probably be blasted but any time someone starts a sentence with "this isn't a put down" it usually is a put down.

 

[hydrotony]

On the face of it the new FP+ sounds good and for me I think it will. Will know later this year. I know we are the exception because if we ride something or not it's just not that important. We just love being at the happiest place on earth. I do understand everyone's consternation though.

I'm the original poster and I feel I really need to say this and will probably be blasted but any time someone starts a sentence with "this isn't a put down" it usually is a put down.

Well then, I'm happy you read a comment that used those opening words and wasn't a derogatory statement. What I said was that you are one of the 95% of the WDW guests that didn't know all the intricate details of the old fastpass system and wasn't able to use it as strategically well as the 5% of guests that did know them. You clearly stated/implied that you didn't know about the 2 hour rule, the "get a new FP when the time window is reached", the knowledge about which ride machines were not connected to the system. You knew the basics, the 5%ers knew the details. The 5%ers, therefor, are upset that the years of learning the old FP system does not give them an advantage in the FP+ system. You should be happy with this, the fast pass "playing field" has been leveled.

And this is what I stated, the new FP+ system was made for the 95%ers and not for the 5%ers.