OKW 2042 - 2057 deed

[dianeschlicht]

Do you think that part of the reason DVC is offering the OKW extension is because DVC might be sitting on a lot of OKW ROFR points in their inventory which they could open up to new sales with a new 50 year contract term? That would give it the same ending date as AKV.

Also, and I'm sorry if this has already been answered, or if this is a stupid question, but will there be a different MF structure for OKW now based upon the potential for two different contract end dates?

I'm assuming those that choose NOT to extend will not want to be obligated to pay MFs earmarked for maintence beyond 2042, but I don't know enough about how current MFs are calculated and assessed for future maintenence.

How far in advance are MFs projected, assessed and ultimately paid and collected?

While we don't own at OKW, we may ultimately face these decisions if offered at VWL & BWV.

I'm sure you are correct about selling the 50 year contracts and making them easier to sell like the other new resorts.

As for the Maintenance Fees. I doubt it will make any difference at this time, since we pay fees based on the projected costs for the year (either current or just past).

 

[DVC92]

As for the Maintenance Fees. I doubt it will make any difference at this time, since we pay fees based on the projected costs for the year (either current or just past).

The annual assessment for OKW goes towards funding the Capital Reserves Budget in addition to the yearly Operating (day-to-day expenses) Budget. For 2007, the Reserves Budget was approximately 50 cents per vacation point. The reserves are monies set aside to replace the roof, furnishings, paving, etc. when needed, and each of these elements has an estimated useful life (e.g., anywhere from 1-30 years according to DVC). Currently, as of 1/31/06, the reserves totaled over 18 million dollars. The Reserves Budget will necessarily have to be differentiated between 2042 and 2057 contracts in the next 5 years based on the estimated life expectancy of the various elements. Further, under the current Club documents, any surplus of operating and reserve funds at the termination of the Condominium must be divided between the members according to their ownership share.

If the extension goes forward, and you opt out, you will suffer a financial loss if DVC doesn't address a two-tier Reserves Budget as well as the disbursal of any monies remaining in a 2042 budget for those expiring memberships.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Not sure how they will handle the two tier business for the MF reserves. I know, however, that I was never expecting to get anything disbursed back to me in 2042. I figure after owning OKW DVC for so many years and enjoying so many vacations, that was just the cost of doing business. I have expected my ownership to expire at that time since I purchased. So if I do receive monies back then, I would consider it a bonus!

 

[fwm]

The annual assessment for OKW goes towards funding the Capital Reserves Budget in addition to the yearly Operating (day-to-day expenses) Budget. For 2007, the Reserves Budget was approximately 50 cents per vacation point. The reserves are monies set aside to replace the roof, furnishings, paving, etc. when needed, and each of these elements has an estimated useful life (e.g., anywhere from 1-30 years according to DVC). Currently, as of 1/31/06, the reserves totaled over 18 million dollars. The Reserves Budget will necessarily have to be differentiated between 2042 and 2057 contracts in the next 5 years based on the estimated life expectancy of the various elements. Further, under the current Club documents, any surplus of operating and reserve funds at the termination of the Condominium must be divided between the members according to their ownership share.

If the extension goes forward, and you opt out, you will suffer a financial loss if DVC doesn't address a two-tier Reserves Budget as well as the disbursal of any monies remaining in a 2042 budget for those expiring memberships.

So have you contacted anyone at DVC to ask this question? Perhaps that would shortcut the issue.

 

[DVC92]

So have you contacted anyone at DVC to ask this question? Perhaps that would shortcut the issue.

Letters are in the mail!

 

[RobDoc]

Doc - I'm not trying to be argumentative here - but what votes in the past were more important that this one?

IMO, the votes taken to create the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh and eigth resorts were far more important than extending OKW by 15 years. I also consider the vote each year regarding our dues to be far more important. My current understanding of the 9/24 vote is that it will not impact me at all. Unless and until I have information - from Disney - to the contary, this vote is a non-issue for me. I'm more concerned about the votes on December 4 when my dues will be voted on.

A lien is an obligation to pay. It doesn't have to affect member usage. If somebody has to pay money for something - whether now or when they try to sell, how is that not "getting stuck with something they didn't want".

I have NO information that suggests this will cost any owner any money unless they opt to accept the extension. Unless and until I have information - from Disney - to the contrary, I have no informaton that suggests any will "have" to pay anything. In fact, the information I have received states just the opposite. Another non-issue for me at this time.

You seem to be open to the possibility that people will be forced to pay - you just aren't sure how much. I'd argue that nobody should be forced to pay for an extension they don't want. I'd also argue that a representative acting in the interest of members shouldn't agree to a price that is way above something that makes financial sense. What's the point of a vote on a $25 vote if the intended price is $15?

I have NO information that suggests this will cost any owner any money unless they opt to accept the extension. Unless and until I have information - from Disney - to the contrary, I have no informaton that suggests any will "have" to pay anything. In fact, the information I have received states just the opposite. Another non-issue for me at this time.

In addition, I don't care what price tag they choose to vote on - it will not cost me one dime. Whether the cost is $25, $15 or $2 this decision will not cost me anything based on the information I have recieved. "Free" would work for me, but anything higher is a non-issue.

Does having to pay for a reserve fund that will be spent from 2042-2057 count as "result in any expense"?

The letter I received made no mention of any reserve fund issue. I believe that has been raised by those trying to read between the lines of the letter sent out thus far - and again, is a non-issue for me at this moment. I could easily be convinced that some of these things are an issue once I have received the instructional letter from Disney following this vote and am prepared to respond appropriately at that time. There is nothing at all I can do at this moment to stop the upcoming vote and less I can do to change the predictable outcome of that vote. I choose to focus on other things until I know and understand what will be expected of me.

Under item #28 (Non-Payment of Assessment) in the Condominium Rules and Regulations, it states, "Any owners who are delinquent in payment of their assessments may be denied access and occupancy of a Vacation Home in accordance with Section 721.13(6), Florida Statutes, until all delinquent assessments are paid in full." As of 2/29/08, the special assessment will be delinquent. Disney is not going to wait until 2042 to collect it.

The operative word in that passge has been bolded and unless and until I see some evidence that it will be invoked regarding this assessment I refuse to worry about something which, IMO, is not going to happen. The POS is filled with pages of clauses which have never been invoked and propbably never will. I have read them, understand they are there and have the confidence they are unlikely to affect me at all.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Thank you, Doc!

We came to that same conclusion, and it isn't going to matter to us anymore either! Why should it? I don't really plan to care in either 2042 OR 2057!

 

[JudyS]

Do you think that part of the reason DVC is offering the OKW extension is because DVC might be sitting on a lot of OKW ROFR points in their inventory which they could open up to new sales with a new 50 year contract term? That would give it the same ending date as AKV.....

This is what I'm wondering, too. Perhaps Disney has OKW inventory that they need to sell? Does anyone know? There isn't a waitlist if you want to buy at OKW, is there?

Also, I have seen speculation that Disney doesn't have enough new DVC units being built in the next year or two to meet sales demand, which would be another reason they would want some OKW contracts ending in 2057 to sell. Any thoughts on this?

 

[OneMoreTry]

.......


The letter I received made no mention of any reserve fund issue. ........

There IS already a reserve. It's the portion of our dues that is set aside for new furniture, fixtures, paint, etc. The gripe is that in 2042, non-extended memberships (it definitely will NOT look like ownership that year) and extended memberships will have to pay the SAME amount to set aside for this fund for future years.

Not fair -- if it happens that way.


(I think this would be an issue for you if you, God forbid, needed to sell your points in a couple of years and found out the price had gone down by $2 or $3 a point due to the extension.)

 

[OlderMan]

JudyS, et al,

When we were at OKW in July, I attended a meeting led by a DVC sales rep. It was open to everyone, not just DVC Owners.

He said that, at that time, there were points available for purchase in OKW at $95+- per point.

According to the rep, many people who purchased OKW 10-15 years ago were selling and buying in SSR or AKV since they were newer resorts. I'm assuming that DVC got these through their ROFR.

 

[salmoneous]

Also, I have seen speculation that Disney doesn't have enough new DVC units being built in the next year or two to meet sales demand, which would be another reason they would want some OKW contracts ending in 2057 to sell. Any thoughts on this?

Pure 100% guesswork here - but I don't see Disney actively marketing OKW points. If they have a construction/timing problem and need to temporarily sell "used" points, they will sell SSR - which is still brand new, has preview rooms already built, etc. OKW is a bit too worn and lacks the infrastructure to actively market

 

[JudyS]

There IS already a reserve. It's the portion of our dues that is set aside for new furniture, fixtures, paint, etc. The gripe is that in 2042, non-extended memberships (it definitely will NOT look like ownership that year) and extended memberships will have to pay the SAME amount to set aside for this fund for future years.

Not fair -- if it happens that way....

I know there have been situations where other Right-to-use timeshares (non-Disney) actually raised fees substantially in the last few years before the Right-to-use expired, so that the members ended up paying for a complete refurbishment and giving the developers back an essentially brand-new resort. That is definitely not fair, but there was little the members could do about it, because their credit ratings would have taken a hit if they simply walked away from their membership.

Disney, though, has their corporate reputation to protect, so hopefully they would not do anything like this.

 

[RobDoc]

There IS already a reserve. It's the portion of our dues that is set aside for new furniture, fixtures, paint, etc. The gripe is that in 2042, non-extended memberships (it definitely will NOT look like ownership that year) and extended memberships will have to pay the SAME amount to set aside for this fund for future years.

Not fair -- if it happens that way.


(I think this would be an issue for you if you, God forbid, needed to sell your points in a couple of years and found out the price had gone down by $2 or $3 a point due to the extension.)

Thanks, but I'm well aware how the maintenance fees are structured and what is covered by the Reserve Fund, but saw no mention of it in the letter I received from Disney about the 9/24 vote.

Where are you getting your information from regarding "The gripe is that in 2042, non-extended memberships (it definitely will NOT look like ownership that year) and extended memberships will have to pay the SAME amount to set aside for this fund for future years." ? Are you suggesting that you have information from Disney stating how the Reserve Fund will be handled for the next 35 years?

The letter I received made no mention of anything about the reserve fund. I suspect you are basing your comment on the speculation posted by others in this and other threads but DVC has not, in fact, made any statement about how the reserve fund may be affected by the extension. If you have such information from Disney explaining how the proposed extension will affect the Reserve Fund for the next 35 years, please feel free to share it as many of us will be interested in the exact wording used for the information.

At this point no one knows what effect the proposed extension may have on resale values either - up or down - and both changes have been suggested in the past couple of weeks. Any suggestion that it will raise or lower the values is simply wild speculation at this point in time.

 

[JudyS]

JudyS, et al,

When we were at OKW in July, I attended a meeting led by a DVC sales rep. It was open to everyone, not just DVC Owners.

He said that, at that time, there were points available for purchase in OKW at $95+- per point.

According to the rep, many people who purchased OKW 10-15 years ago were selling and buying in SSR or AKV since they were newer resorts. I'm assuming that DVC got these through their ROFR.

Thanks for the info, OlderMan! I wonder if Disney ever offered to take OKW points as a trade-in on SSR or AKV. Anyone know?

Pure 100% guesswork here - but I don't see Disney actively marketing OKW points. If they have a construction/timing problem and need to temporarily sell "used" points, they will sell SSR - which is still brand new, has preview rooms already built, etc. OKW is a bit too worn and lacks the infrastructure to actively market

But, I'm not sure how Disney would get inventory of resale SSR points. SSR is so new that few people would be interested in selling. With OKW, on the other hand, sales started 15 (16?) years ago, so some of the original owners presumably now have different timeshare needs, or are even no longer living, and Disney may have acquired their points either through a direct purchase or through ROFR (or through trade-ins on new timeshares, if Disney does that.)

OKW isn't new, but there may be some people who don't mind. I greatly prefer the mature landscaping at OKW to the relatively bare look at SSR, for example. I agree that Disney doesn't currently have infrastructure in place for selling OKW, but I imagine they could build it pretty quickly. If nothing else, a two-bedroom unit at OKW could be set aside as a model.

 

[OlderMan]

JudyS, et al,

According to the DVC rep at OKW in July, all their 'inventory' of OKW points is due to ROFR, and that they have NEVER 'bought' points from owners any other way including trade.

 

[DVC92]

Thanks, but I'm well aware how the maintenance fees are structured and what is covered by the Reserve Fund, but saw no mention of it in the letter I received from Disney about the 9/24 vote.

Where are you getting your information from regarding "The gripe is that in 2042, non-extended memberships (it definitely will NOT look like ownership that year) and extended memberships will have to pay the SAME amount to set aside for this fund for future years." ? Are you suggesting that you have information from Disney stating how the Reserve Fund will be handled for the next 35 years?

The letter I received made no mention of anything about the reserve fund. I suspect you are basing your comment on the speculation posted by others in this and other threads but DVC has not, in fact, made any statement about how the reserve fund may be affected by the extension. If you have such information from Disney explaining how the proposed extension will affect the Reserve Fund for the next 35 years, please feel free to share it as many of us will be interested in the exact wording used for the information.

At this point no one knows what effect the proposed extension may have on resale values either - up or down - and both changes have been suggested in the past couple of weeks. Any suggestion that it will raise or lower the values is simply wild speculation at this point in time.

Doc,

Isn't this a lot of the problem? Prior to amending the documents, Disney should have put all details on the table for member comments. That would have been the rational approach.

 

[RobDoc]

Doc,

Isn't this a lot of the problem? Prior to amending the documents, Disney should have put all details on the table for member comments. That would have been the rational approach.

I would agree that DVD could/should have handled this whole thing much more diplomatically and I'm truly amazed at the way they have gone about presenting this to the OKW owners - along with the other "improvements" and "simplifications" made in the past month or so. I know those who make these decisions are wise enough to realize that no one likes change but they seem to have decided that they want to throw all of these changes out at once to the membership and hope we just swallow the company line. Maybe that was the intent - I hope not.

We also need to realize that except for those members who participate in online message boards, very few are likely aware of the event taking place on 9/24 (except for OKW owners) and many will not have even noticed the changes noted in the recent Vacation Magic - so I'd think that there are really a very small number of DVC members who are even aware of the number of changes made at this time. That will change over the coming months - especially those who missed the banking deadline change and were counting on banking some of their points at 9 months.

I'm eager to see how DVC will handle the extension and how it will be presented to OKW owners in a couple of weeks. I actually expect to find another letter with a cheerful "spin" for these "magical" extensions - but minimal detail regarding the nuts and bolts of the extension. I expect these letters (packages) will be sent via FedEx (thus providing a legal delivery notification) and will include the documents needed to accept or decline the offer - but again, no mention of things like Reserve Fund and no comments dwelling on things like what happens if the documents are not sent back. I do not really expect to see anything about liens being placed or owners not being able to use their membership since none of that would be consistent with the "Magic of Disney" or reminding us that "Members are Magical".

I hope I'm wrong and that DVD truly anticipates all of the questions which will come from this decision (many of which have already been expressed in this thread). I hope DVD lays it all out for us with explanations and everything, but am not holding my breath. I suspect that Disney feels they already understand the mood of the owners due to all of the "What happens after 1/31/2042" questions they have received over the years (I know I have asked that question a number of times), and all of the comments on forums like this one where members expressed a desire to purchase additional years. I don't think they even gave much thought about how to present this "magical" opportunity and just put a typical spin on the topic in the owner's letter.

Stay Tuned!

 

[Merilyn]

I called my rep this am and was told that they will offer a 15 dollar addon until Feb something. She didn't know the exact date. She also said that as of now there are no plans to offer the addon years at the other resorts. She said that Disney will pay all fees associated with the extension whether you addon or not. You just have to decide to or not to and let them know. It doesn't seem bad at 15 dollars but I do agree there are a lot of questions. Just thought I would add what I found out.