Okay. SIL has gone too far this time

[~disneydiva~]

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

Agreed.

 

[tink1969]

Well, I for one agree that you should get attorney and look into what's going on.
If the SIL is handling your FIL's finances, she may be running him dry. If she has no job, she has no money. Guess who will be called on next to pay for whatever extra medical care, medicines, funeral expenses etc. are required for your FIL? YOUR HUSBAND!

It's amazing that posters are attacking and accusing you of being worried that you won't get an inheritance. Regardless if this is just 'some old man', it's wrong that he should be taken advantage of.

 

[bumbershoot]

YOu know possibly in that state it is elder abuse? especially as you stated with the messed up check book,etc. Pay herself a salary, um nope. I was my DF POA and executor along with DM's POA and executor-only child here and more resposible then DM. And I have never gotten a salary. If your FIL is still has his capacities, he can remove her from being in charge of his money.

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

I go more with the elder abuse post, becuase I know VERY well that you can not care *much* about a person, but still want them to be CARED FOR and NOT taken advantage of. And because it sounds a bit abusive. Someone also had a good point about the 7 year lookback, if SIL isn't accounting perfectly for the money she's spending from his account...that's going to bite her in the rear if it happens!

But can one, or can one not, take a salary for helping to care for a parent? That's a pretty big question here.

We have one person who was POA and executor who says that it can't be done legally, and someone else who says it can't. My aunt never took money from her mom when she was caring for her...my mom and uncle begged her to take an official caregiver course so that she could qualify as a Caregiver and receive money, but she coudln't figure out how to find the time to take that course (and my mom and uncle never gave her a good way to do it...seemed reasonable at the time but now I realized it was an impossible situation my aunt was in). But without such a thing, and especially once Nama was in a nursing home, she never ever took a salary...

 

[Allison]

If your husband puts his foot down are you and your husband willing to step in and take on the responsibility currently handled by your SIL? I'd think long and hard about your end goal here.

 

[Alesia]

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

Agreed.

 

[tink1969]

By the way, I don't see anywhere in the OP's post that she said she 'was entitled to anything' from her FIL and was worried about it.

 

[disneychic2]

I think the key here is "in-law". He's your husband's family, not yours. (since there wasn't a relationship ongoing. I happened to absolutely love my fil and miss him terribly!) Your husband clearly wants to steer clear of this whole mess, and I think that's a good decision. It does sound a bit like you are concerned about the inheritance above everything else. I think you would be happier to just wash your hands of the whole thing, say a prayer for all involved and get on with your life. Don't let this eat at you when life if so short. Look for the joy and give your sil a little grace. You may need it yourself one day. Good luck to you and God Bless!

 

[ksjayhawks]

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

Does SIL have poa? Did she get poa because she was closer in location or because she is closer to fil?

Can you ask for an accounting of the money? Yes and sil should be able to give it to you.

What are your concerns, other than she moved him from a great facility--wasn't your dh involved in that decision? Is it that she is taking a salary, that she is moving him closer to her, that she has a poa, that she has the checkbook? Are you willing to move fil into a facility in your city and take over his care? If so, fight for it. If not and you are only concerned about the money, then your motives are wrong.

 

[hentob]

FIL then decided he was going to be a lonely old man in a nursing home...

Nobody decides this. I imagine he went to a nursing home because he could not take care of himself

I just think of him as this old man that we know.

I told my husband he needs to put his foot down on this one.

Why

Am I totally wrong on this?

Yes. You are.

 

[Myothername]

To address some of the questions, SIL has a closer relationship with FIL than my husband does but it is by no means a close relationship. They were all very much estranged growing up. They were on welfare my husband's whole childhood. FIL never paid child support and even remarried and gave his step children cars, motorcycles, etc. My husband and his sister pretty much got what they had on their own.

My husband and his sister are pretty close. They talk every so often, maybe once every few months. It has to be when she calls us though. If we call her she won't answer the phone and won't return a voice mail. You just have to know her. She has never returned a single phone call in the 25 years I have known her. So I guess you could say the relationship is a little one sided. I think my husband wishes they were closer because I talk to my brother several times a week and vacation with him and his family every year. He does not have that relationship with her.

As far as the money, yes, that is some of the issue here. FIL had quite a bit of money before he went into the nursing home and more coming in every month from SS and his pension. His care was pretty much covered by insurance and VA benefits so he should have been having more come in. Almost all of the money is gone. Now SIL has given some to herself and to my husband which is legal as a parent can give their children money gifts up to $10,000 a year. She is signator on his account. But the one time we asked for some type of accounting it was very lacking. And yes my husband felt he was owed some of this money since his father always said he was leaving everything to him and his sister and also because his father never lifted a finger to help him his whole life. Remember he was raised on food stamps and welfare. Now if the money is being taken for medical bills, that is one thing. But to go to pay for SIL to check on him in the nursing home, no. Now is SIL was working and had to take off to do stuff that may be different. Still though it is your father. You should do it anyway.

My main complaint though is paying yourself to care for your father. I just think that is wrong. Were he to have to move down here we would care for him and never consider taking money for it. Yes, to me he is just this old man I know but I also want him to have good care. I deal with the elderly in my work now and have an aunt in a nursing home. There is no way I would charge anyone money to go check on her and see about her.

I am sure my husband and I will have some more discussions about this and I am leaving the decision totally up to him. But he asks me what to do so I give him my opinion.

 

[Allison]

But to go to pay for SIL to check on him in the nursing home, no. Now is SIL was working and had to take off to do stuff that may be different. Still though it is your father. You should do it anyway.

So is your husband doing his share or is it all the sister? You say "you should do it anyway". Is your husband?

 

[luvmy3]

To address some of the questions, SIL has a closer relationship with FIL than my husband does but it is by no means a close relationship. They were all very much estranged growing up. They were on welfare my husband's whole childhood. FIL never paid child support and even remarried and gave his step children cars, motorcycles, etc. My husband and his sister pretty much got what they had on their own.

My husband and his sister are pretty close. They talk every so often, maybe once every few months. It has to be when she calls us though. If we call her she won't answer the phone and won't return a voice mail. You just have to know her. She has never returned a single phone call in the 25 years I have known her. So I guess you could say the relationship is a little one sided. I think my husband wishes they were closer because I talk to my brother several times a week and vacation with him and his family every year. He does not have that relationship with her.

As far as the money, yes, that is some of the issue here. FIL had quite a bit of money before he went into the nursing home and more coming in every month from SS and his pension. His care was pretty much covered by insurance and VA benefits so he should have been having more come in. Almost all of the money is gone. Now SIL has given some to herself and to my husband which is legal as a parent can give their children money gifts up to $10,000 a year. She is signator on his account. But the one time we asked for some type of accounting it was very lacking. And yes my husband felt he was owed some of this money since his father always said he was leaving everything to him and his sister and also because his father never lifted a finger to help him his whole life. Remember he was raised on food stamps and welfare. Now if the money is being taken for medical bills, that is one thing. But to go to pay for SIL to check on him in the nursing home, no. Now is SIL was working and had to take off to do stuff that may be different. Still though it is your father. You should do it anyway.

My main complaint though is paying yourself to care for your father. I just think that is wrong. Were he to have to move down here we would care for him and never consider taking money for it. Yes, to me he is just this old man I know but I also want him to have good care. I deal with the elderly in my work now and have an aunt in a nursing home. There is no way I would charge anyone money to go check on her and see about her.

I am sure my husband and I will have some more discussions about this and I am leaving the decision totally up to him. But he asks me what to do so I give him my opinion.

First of all, the fact that the SIL doesn't work has nothing to do with anything. Thats like saying she has nothing else to do anyway so she should be more than willing to do all this for her father.
OP, I mean no offense to you, but just because you feel its her father and she should be doing this means nothing. You have no right to expect someone to do something just because YOU feel its the right thing to do. I'm willing to bet she has her reasons, ones that you could never understand. If you (and I assume your dh) feel that because he is her father she should be more than willing to take care of him, and all of his affairs, instead of asking for cancelled checks and bank acct statements maybe you should take on all the responsibilities yourselves, move him closer to you and take care of all his needs. If you aren't willing to do that yourself then quite franky you have no right to say what she is doing is wrong. (I mean her wanting a salary, if its found she is stealing thats different).
Have you and your dh talked to FIL about this, does he know what she is spending money on, maybe he has agreed to let her, and maybe she is keeing it from you guys because he doesn't want you all to know.

 

[Myothername]

So is your husband doing his share or is it all the sister? You say "you should do it anyway". Is your husband?

There is really not much we can do as we are 1000 miles away from FIL in the nursing home. She is choosing to move him closer to her so she can check on him more often I suppose. But to pay yourself to do this is just wrong.

 

[Allison]

Then perhaps your husband should be offering to compensate his sister himself for taking full responsibility for something that should be shared between the two of them.

Or you and your husband should move his father closer to you and your DH takes on all the responsibility.

 

[kirstenb1]

There is really not much we can do as we are 1000 miles away from FIL in the nursing home. She is choosing to move him closer to her so she can check on him more often I suppose. But to pay yourself to do this is just wrong.

I haven't had to deal with this yet myself. But my aunt and mother did with my Nana. My aunt lived closer, and my mom insisted that my aunt pay herself for the things she did for Nana (ie, checking on her, and taking care of bill-paying).

 

[hentob]

She is choosing to move him closer to her so she can check on him more often I suppose.

That is very nice of her. I think you are just scared that she will buddy him up and you and your DH won't get any of the money.

But, really, to accept any money from him would be pretty wrong on your part. Afterall, you "just think of him as this old man that we know. "

 

[Wishing on a star]

She is the POA.
She lives where he is (has taken steps to move him to where she can oversee his care)
She is the one in the drivers seat.
She is the one putting in all the effort.

It would seem that you have done nothing.
Unless your DH (again, your DH) is willing to pony-up and take the reigns.. I don't see that he has any say-so. And, you.... I don't see that you have any sayso whatsoever.

Honestly,
I wonder if you would truly be willing to do this, for what could be years, with no reimbursement whatsoever, so that your SIL (who has done nothing and has not been involved) could make darned sure she gets her full 50% 'when this old man that she knows' passes away. (and I wouldn't count on there being anything there at all, except for debt)

Bottom line....
Unless your DH is ready to put in the effort, he really has no say-so.

If your DH (again, your DH) wants to see a full annual accounting, so that he can see that his father is not being robbed.... sure, go ahead... I would recommend the services of a good lawyer in that case.

Seriously, if this old man really has any amount of financial assetts, the thing to have done, or do, in this case, would be for FIL to have placed them in a trust. Not just give the one SIL a full power of attorney. If this is a full and unlimited power of attorney, then there could be no restrictions or limitiations or accounting required... She has full legal authority to do as she wishes.

 

[luvmy3]

And yes my husband felt he was owed some of this money since his father always said he was leaving everything to him and his sister and also because his father never lifted a finger to help him his whole life.

So, the sister here, who I assume wasn't taken care of either, is now taking care of her dad using her own finances, and wants to be compensated for it, is somehow wrong, but its okay for your dh to want something for not being taken care of and having to do it all himself all these years? Isn't it the same thing? At least the dd is "working" for what your dh just feels he is owed.

 

[sammiwa]

There is really not much we can do as we are 1000 miles away from FIL in the nursing home. She is choosing to move him closer to her so she can check on him more often I suppose. But to pay yourself to do this is just wrong.

So, she should just help him out because he is her father, and take no money. Even though it probably costs her money, time, effort, etc. to care for him.

And then when he passes I am assuming that you believe all funds should be split between your husband and her? So, for those years of work she gets the same amount of inheritance that you and your husband get for doing nothing for him?

Just because he is your husband's father does not make you entitled to his money. If he wants his daughter to have all of it, that's his choice.

 

[ccgirl]

My inlaws just went thru something almost identical. Split the family up. Brothers and sisters not talking to each other. Pretty disusting really. It is just money let it go! Nobody is entitled to anything.

My family went thru this to. My mom took the high road and said, "obviously she (her sister) needed the money more than her." This is a women that has always worked two jobs as a single mom. Even she realized it was only money.

If you really want to supervise his care; can you talk to his sister and move him closer to you? If this is really about the money and your DH feeling he is owed something since he didn't get it in childhood he really needs to get the chip off his shoulder.

Good luck.