OK, I'm a masochist, let's talk about Madonna

[auntpolly]

If I promise not to get so emotional, defending ,my faith and all, can I ask this question?

Honestly, I am not at all in favor of censorship and think boycotts of the DaVinci code and the Passion are silly , and I think Madonna should do any silly thing she wants in her concert.

But I can still wonder -- would she make fun of other religions the way she is making fun of Christianity in her concert? Would this be quite so -- oh, I don't know, edgy, if it were something that was offensive to Jews of Muslims?

And lastly, I thought Kaballah was all about embracing other faiths. Is this what the "spiritual" Madonna is learning in those Kaballah classes?

I am open to the possiblity that there is something I'm not getting, so please, enlighten me.

 

[Quinn222]

I don't think for her (and I can hardly speak for her, I'm just speculating) it's not a matter of making fun on Christianity. It's a matter of addressing the religion that she grew up in and that affected her. She wasn't brought up Jewish or Muslim so she doesn't really have an artistic(?) viewpoint on that.
I'm Catholic myself and was always very active in my church but this latest pope crossed the line for me and drove me away. It's kind of heartbreaking. Maybe if I was an artist I'd want to express that in some way. Probably not the way she does though!

 

[auntpolly]

I don't think for her (and I can hardly speak for her, I'm just speculating) it's not a matter of making fun on Christianity. It's a matter of addressing the religion that she grew up in and that affected her. She wasn't brought up Jewish or Muslim so she doesn't really have an artistic(?) viewpoint on that.
I'm Catholic myself and was always very active in my church but this latest pope crossed the line for me and drove me away. It's kind of heartbreaking. Maybe if I was an artist I'd want to express that in some way. Probably not the way she does though!

I get that, but this is a very offensive way to make her point -- Do you really think it would be as acceptable with other religions? I don't.

And I thought she was supposed to be all "spiritually enlightnened. You really think this is the kind of thing she's supposed to have learned?

 

[Holly]

I get that, but this is a very offensive way to make her point -- Do you really think it would be as acceptable with other religions? I don't.

And I thought she was supposed to be all "spiritually enlightnened. You really think this is the kind of thing she's supposed to have learned?

I don't think it's acceptable in any religion.

I'm not sure why you think that it would be tolerated any other way in another religion besides Christianity? If she were targeting Islam or Sikhism, what would they do about it?

I think her actions may be offensive to some, but I also agree with Quinn in the fact that she is speaking out about her personal struggles and not leading a charge against Christianity.

 

[Quinn222]

I get that, but this is a very offensive way to make her point -- Do you really think it would be as acceptable with other religions? I don't.

And I thought she was supposed to be all "spiritually enlightnened. You really think this is the kind of thing she's supposed to have learned?

I don't think it's matter of being acceptable. I don't think she cares if it's acceptable. If she was doing offensive things about a religion other than the one tha was her own then she could be accused of being a bigot or whatever. I'm not saying I like what she does and I'm sure lots of people are offended by it. But it's about her personal experience, so I don't think it's a matter of it wouldn't be acceptable if she was doing it about some other religion. If a jewish person did such a thing about growing up jewish a whole lot of folks would be offended too but probably wouldn't be, "Well imagine the uproar if he'd said that about Christians! It wouldn't be acceptable."

Rushdie wrote that book and his religion retaliated by putting out a death warrant on him. People take religion very seriously. I find people in the church are more a threat to it than people outside of it talking about it.

 

[auntpolly]

Personally, I wouldn't have been offended if it had been the pope she had picked on, and I'm Catholic. He's fair game, as far as I'm concerned. My favorite singer of all time, Todd Rundgren had a terrible song about the Pope years back, and while I disagree with him about it, I respect his protest.

But this Modonna thing is attacking Christ -- bad form, I think. She's free to do it, but I'm free to think she's a stupid idiot.

 

[auntpolly]

I don't think it's matter of being acceptable. I don't think she cares if it's acceptable. If she was doing offensive things about a religion other than the one tha was her own then she could be accused of being a bigot or whatever. I'm not saying I like what she does and I'm sure lots of people are offended by it. But it's about her personal experience, so I don't think it's a matter of it wouldn't be acceptable if she was doing it about some other religion. If a jewish person did such a thing about growing up jewish a whole lot of folks would be offended too but probably wouldn't be, "Well imagine the uproar if he'd said that about Christians! It wouldn't be acceptable."

Rushdie wrote that book and his religion retaliated by putting out a death warrant on him. People take religion very seriously. I find people in the church are more a threat to it than people outside of it talking about it.

This isn't exactly a carefully considered critique on problems with her religious background, this is "slap in the face imagery".

Once again, I wouldn't seek to stop her, only to tell her that I think she's hateful and tell her she'd better get back to class because she obviously hasn't gotten any enlightnenment yet.

 

[MAKmom]

What is she saying? She is now in a form of a Jewish faith, I think. I think you can get away with making fun of a religion if it is the one you grew up in. I'm thinking of comedians. Making fun of Christ is crossing the line for me.
For me making fun of a religion is making fun of humans who follow it & made the rules. Christ did not start a "religion" IMO wasn't he Gnostic?

 

[Christine]

Is she doing something new these days that I missed?

Madonna has always seemed to have a real love/hate relationship with the Catholic church. I am not Catholic, have been to a few of her concerts, and I have not been offended by what she does. But I can see that a person who was happy in their Catholic faith would.

I think that as Madonna has become more independent, famous, wealthy, she sees the Catholic Church as a "suppresser" of so many things and I think it drives her nuts. I don't really disagree with her and, as you said, if she wants to do it in her own "forum" I don't have a problem with it.

Your OP alludes that there has been some new controversy?

 

[auntpolly]

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Music/05/22/madonna.gig.reut/index.html

She's on the cross with thorns at her latest concert.

I'll say it again -- she's free to do it or any silly thing she wants, but I just want to know how she can call herself "spiritual" and do it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Without knowing the lyrics to her song--from the link it says:

Later on, she donned a crown of thorns and suspended herself from a giant mirrored cross to deliver the ballad "Live to Tell." Video screens showed images of third-world poverty and reeled off grim statistics.

It doens't sound like she's trying to be offensive. Hard to say without actually seeing it.

But amazing how people got upset with kanye west and his rolling stone cover.

I haven't really heard anything about madonna and her statement until now.

 

[Grumpy's Wife]

I've never liked her and never will. She's all about getting attention and I think she got it.

 

[poohandwendy]

I think she is a nasty pig and I think poeple are crazy to spend close to $400 so see her writhing around on a stage.

I do not see her political/social/religious stage theatrics as artistic expression, I see it as prostituting disrespect for cash money. All the power to her, and anyone entertained by that, but I think she lacks class in a huge way.

 

[AllyandJack]

She's a fool. She looked like a goon in that leotard thing she had on. She always put on a good show, but now she's old. She can't rely on singing talent because, sadly, she never really had any. Now, she's old and she can't rely on wearing lingerie and acting sexy on stage. Her only way of anybody noticing she's on tour is to do something dopey to make the news. I had no idea she was on tour until I saw this fiasco on the news. I'm not even Catholic anymore. I don't find it offensive. I find it sad. It's a lame attempt at attention an it's really sad to see such a great performer go down in flames attempting to keep her career alive.

 

[Christine]

Lisa Loves Pooh:

Heres the Live to Tell lyrics:

I have a tale to tell
Sometimes it gets so hard to hide it well
I was not ready for the fall
Too blind to see the writing on the wall

Chorus:

A man can tell a thousand lies
I've learned my lesson well
Hope I live to tell
The secret I have learned, 'till then
It will burn inside of me

I know where beauty lives
I've seen it once, I know the warmth she gives
The light that you could never see
It shines inside, you can't take that from me

(chorus)

2nd Chorus:

The truth is never far behind
You kept it hidden well
If I live to tell
The secret I knew then
Will I ever have the chance again

If I ran away, I'd never have the strength
To go very far
How would they hear the beating of my heart
Will it grow cold
The secret that I hide, will I grow old
How will they hear
When will they learn
How will they know

(chorus)
(2nd chorus)

 

[poohandwendy]

It doens't sound like she's trying to be offensive. Hard to say without actually seeing it.

I disagree, her bread and butter is putting on a shocking and offensive performance and calling it self expression.

 

[Pigeon]

This has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with attention and money. Madonna is getting a little long in the tooth, and needed to do something to make it into the headlines.

 

[cardaway]

I disagree, her bread and butter is putting on a shocking and offensive performance and calling it self expression.

The same can be said about almost any performer that includes controversial topics in their performances.

 

[poohandwendy]

The same can be said about almost any performer that includes controversial topics in their performances.

True.

 

[txgirl]

I think she is a nasty pig and I think poeple are crazy to spend close to $400 so see her writhing around on a stage.

I do not see her political/social/religious stage theatrics as artistic expression, I see it as prostituting disrespect for cash money. All the power to her, and anyone entertained by that, but I think she lacks class in a huge way.

OOH OOH poohandwendy! Don't hold back now (I totally agree with *every*thing you said) I will never understand how anyone is entertained by her ability to be so "shocking" yet at the same time, so lame.

auntpolly- you are correct in your statement about whether it would be acceptable to mock other faiths (it wouldn't). Christianity is represented in countless songs & movies, etc. that are ruthless in their attempts to mock Christ. Still, the real issue is not whether those people "should" or "should not" do it, but rather "would" they ever mock the Islamic or Jewish faith in the same way and receive the approval?