OK, I'll say it... we are too sensitive

[luvsJack]

“Hurts their feelings”...how dismissive. I guess Jewish ppl are offended by the use of swastika b/c it “hurts their feelings”. So what is the alternative? Do we just do & say what we want no matter who we insult, injure, or offend? Imo, a civilized society should strive to be better than that & really LISTEN & understand why the said person feels offended.

You are right everyone should listen as to why. But by the same token, the other side needs to listen as to why these things mean so much to the ones that want them to remain.

This thread was about a statue of a woman and a song being removed. That song was not racist. Another song or two from some 70 years ago was perhaps racist. So we have to remove the non racist song and the statue of the woman who we don’t know if she was racist or not because of that. That is simply going too far. It just is.

 

[Hikergirl]

“Hurts their feelings”...how dismissive. I guess Jewish ppl are offended by the use of swastika b/c it “hurts their feelings”. So what is the alternative? Do we just do & say what we want no matter who we insult, injure, or offend? Imo, a civilized society should strive to be better than that & really LISTEN & understand why the said person feels offended.

That is exactly what it is, we are talking about a feeling they have when they see something they deem offensive.
It hurts them, their feelings.
Your post is a perfect example of the OP- when you are offended by that truth it means you are being too sensitive.
We aren't talking about doing and saying whatever we want, we are talking about statues, monuments to people in our history who actually accomplished some good in their life. In a civilized society we should be able to understand that they can be honored for that.

 

[Southernmiss]

Are new statues still being erected today in the US ? And are new public statues needed?

To me, it seems like an antiquated practice that started eons before modern technology was available to remember people.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Are new statues still being erected today in the US ? And are new public statues needed?

To me, it seems like an antiquated practice that started eons before modern technology was available to remember people.

Statues in the sense of Kate Smith? I haven't looked into that but probably not in that sense. Nowadays you would probably see more plaques on objects, things dedicated to people or memorials built in modern times. We still build things to remember people it may not necessarily be for a person like was more commonplace years ago though.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

That is exactly what it is, we are talking about a feeling they have when they see something they deem offensive.
It hurts them, their feelings.
Your post is a perfect example of the OP- when you are offended by that truth it means you are being too sensitive.
We aren't talking about doing and saying whatever we want, we are talking about statues, monuments to people in our history who actually accomplished some good in their life. In a civilized society we should be able to understand that they can be honored for that.

Nathan Bedford Forrest.

Massacred over 300 at Fort Pillow.
Active in the Klan after the war which was then a terrorist organization.
Lost a battle despite out numbering his enemy 9 to 1 despite having cavalry when his enemy had none.

Hitler got the trains running on time. That was good. Are we going to put up a statue of him too right along side Forrest?

 

[RedAngie]

Move the statue around the boardwalk with a tram car....

Mount the statue on the "locomotive" of the tram car and have her announce "Watch the tram car, please."

I like it on the occasions the recording "skips" and you hear "wa-wa-wa-watch the tram car please."

She never married nor had children.

Apparently Kate Smith's only living relatives are a niece and several great nieces and nephews. The niece was interviewed on local TV and she adamantly defended her aunt.

 

[RedAngie]

Some facts about Kate Smith from Wiki that I thought were interesting.

"Smith's role was to be the butt of Bert Lahr's often cruel jibes about her girth. She said later that she often wept with humiliation in her dressing room after the show."

.

I suppose that was one of the few jobs in show business she could get at the time. But apparently she still willingly accepted such work.

 

[LSUmiss]

That is exactly what it is, we are talking about a feeling they have when they see something they deem offensive.
It hurts them, their feelings.
Your post is a perfect example of the OP- when you are offended by that truth it means you are being too sensitive.
We aren't talking about doing and saying whatever we want, we are talking about statues, monuments to people in our history who actually accomplished some good in their life. In a civilized society we should be able to understand that they can be honored for that.

And how do you explain the “good” that ppl like Robert E Lee did in his noble quest to betray his country in an effort to ensure some ppl could own other ppl to a young black child?

 

[LSUmiss]

You are right everyone should listen as to why. But by the same token, the other side needs to listen as to why these things mean so much to the ones that want them to remain.

This thread was about a statue of a woman and a song being removed. That song was not racist. Another song or two from some 70 years ago was perhaps racist. So we have to remove the non racist song and the statue of the woman who we don’t know if she was racist or not because of that. That is simply going too far. It just is.

Moving past the Kate Smith convo b/c I think the convo has become a much broader discussion. When talking about confederate monuments, for the “other side” to listen & understand why it’s important to some to keep the statues is to have to accept that ppl want to pay homage to those who literally fought to keep them as less than. I just don’t understand how we can expect them to be ok with that. This city is steeped in nostalgia & tradition & Lee Circle has been a city landmark my whole life. It was something that had been there so long it just blended in. When the discussion first came up to remove it, I thought “why? who cares?” It’s just a landmark”. But, when I heard the arguments about why they should come down & how they are viewed by other ppl who have been more affected by that history, I could no longer justify why they should stay. It’s not just history, it’s paying homage. Robert E Lee was put facing north on top Lee Circle as a symbol that “we” should never turn our backs or trust the “north” again. Now, in 2019 (or 2017 when they came down), that’s just ridiculous. And it’s not just an fyi piece of history. And, we ppl dig their heels in & defend things like that as heritage, it very much feels racists to many ppl whether it’s meant to be that way or not.

 

[luvsJack]

Moving past the Kate Smith convo b/c I think the convo has become a much broader discussion. When talking about confederate monuments, for the “other side” to listen & understand why it’s important to some to keep the statues is to have to accept that ppl want to pay homage to those who literally fought to keep them as less than. I just don’t understand how we can expect them to be ok with that. This city is steeped in nostalgia & tradition & Lee Circle has been a city landmark my whole life. It was something that had been there so long it just blended in. When the discussion first came up to remove it, I thought “why? who cares?” It’s just a landmark”. But, when I heard the arguments about why they should come down & how they are viewed by other ppl who have been more affected by that history, I could no longer justify why they should stay. It’s not just history, it’s paying homage. Robert E Lee was put facing north on top Lee Circle as a symbol that “we” should never turn our backs or trust the “north” again. Now, in 2019 (or 2017 when they came down), that’s just ridiculous. And it’s not just an fyi piece of history. And, we ppl dig their heels in & defend things like that as heritage, it very much feels racists to many ppl whether it’s meant to be that way or not.

So only one side of the debate should listen? How is that going to solve anything? The only way to resolve anything is for both sides to listen. By listening one or both may learn to stop assuming why someone feels the way they do.

 

[Southernmiss]

In a perfect world, both sides would listen and come to an amicable solution.

But both sides have extremists who will not listen and only demand their way.

My 3 sons have had disruptions of cancelled classes on their 2 different Mississippi college campuses because the students want to be more inclusive and understanding.

But fringe groups of middle aged adults not associated with the campuses in any way, continue to come in and 'show their behinds' over the proposed changes.

No reason for grown adults from outside the campus to come and start trouble while the students are trying to amicably understand their peers from the other side of the issue and move forward.

 

[LSUmiss]

So only one side of the debate should listen? How is that going to solve anything? The only way to resolve anything is for both sides to listen. By listening one or both may learn to stop assuming why someone feels the way they do.

I would honestly love to hear a justifiable answer to keeping up monuments like the one here dedicated to pay homage to Robert E Lee. I have heard counter arguments like are we going to take down Washington too or vague comments like it’s history or heritage or you can’t erase the past. But, I’ve yet to actually hear anyone give a legitimate argument for it. I don’t mean just on this board, but when it was being debated here too. Why should we continue to display a monument prominently in the center of the city that pays homage to a man who fought against this country to defend ppl’s right to own other ppl? Who is that statue important to in this city & why? And should it be majority rule considering this is a city of 60/40...60% being minority? I honestly asking b/c I have never heard an actual answer from anyone.

 

[LSUmiss]

In a perfect world, both sides would listen and come to an amicable solution.

But both sides have extremists who will not listen and only demand their way.

My 3 sons have had disruptions of cancelled classes on their 2 different Mississippi college campuses because the students want to be more inclusive and understanding.

But fringe groups of adults not associated with the campuses in any way, continue to come in and 'show their behinds' over the proposed changes.

No reason for grown adults from outside the campus to come and start trouble while the students are trying to amicably understand their peers from the other side of the issue and move forward.

I agree that happened here too. The “protestors” on both “sides” were mostly not from this area & thankfully they’ve moved on to stir up stuff in other places. And the monument thing is done here & just no longer controversial. It’s over. We’ve moved on to trying to decide on what to put in the old Lee Circle spot. It didn’t snowball into the rewriting of history books or taking down of everything everywhere or whatever ppl are afraid will happen.

 

[luvsJack]

I agree that happened here too. The “protestors” on both “sides” were mostly not from this area & thankfully they’ve moved on to stir up stuff in other places. And the monument thing is done here & just no longer controversial. It’s over. We’ve moved on to trying to decide on what to put in the old Lee Circle spot. It didn’t snowball into the rewriting of history books or taking down of everything everywhere or whatever ppl are afraid will happen.

You realize that because another change doesn’t come the next day doesn’t mean it won’t. It’s been less than 2 years.

 

[luvsJack]

I would honestly love to hear a justifiable answer to keeping up monuments like the one here dedicated to pay homage to Robert E Lee. I have heard counter arguments like are we going to take down Washington too or vague comments like it’s history or heritage or you can’t erase the past. But, I’ve yet to actually hear anyone give a legitimate argument for it. I don’t mean just on this board, but when it was being debated here too. Why should we continue to display a monument prominently in the center of the city that pays homage to a man who fought against this country to defend ppl’s right to own other ppl? Who is that statue important to in this city & why? And should it be majority rule considering this is a city of 60/40...60% being minority? I honestly asking b/c I have never heard an actual answer from anyone.

I have no idea. But if there are citizens of the city that felt strongly for it, they should be listened to. No one’s voice should be taken. Neither side. All should be calmly listened too. Plain and simple.

If the majority voted and decided, so be it. But everyone should listen.

It’s like our flag. I don’t care one way or the other but it’s a big yee haw every time it comes up. In the past, a vote happened and it was decided to be kept. I personally think we should just vote on it again. If it’s decided it should stay, ok. If it’s decided it should change, then it should change.

The funny thing with our flag, I have never met anyone that cared one way or the other. The ones that should care, don’t. But if anything is officially said suddenly there are all these “citizens” that care. No idea where these folks are between the arguments.

 

[luvsJack]

I agree that happened here too. The “protestors” on both “sides” were mostly not from this area & thankfully they’ve moved on to stir up stuff in other places. And the monument thing is done here & just no longer controversial. It’s over. We’ve moved on to trying to decide on what to put in the old Lee Circle spot. It didn’t snowball into the rewriting of history books or taking down of everything everywhere or whatever ppl are afraid will happen.

A question. Why was the statue not given to a museum in the area? And where is it?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In a perfect world, both sides would listen and come to an amicable solution.

But both sides have extremists who will not listen and only demand their way.

My 3 sons have had disruptions of cancelled classes on their 2 different Mississippi college campuses because the students want to be more inclusive and understanding.

But fringe groups of middle aged adults not associated with the campuses in any way, continue to come in and 'show their behinds' over the proposed changes.

No reason for grown adults from outside the campus to come and start trouble while the students are trying to amicably understand their peers from the other side of the issue and move forward.

I agree about trying to cause trouble because I've seen just how out of control that can get several hours away from me. There's ways of voicing your opinion that don't impede people's safety and ability to learn.

However, the college I went to was an open campus one. That meant you didn't need to be affiliated with campus at all to come and be on property and speak your mind. Now obviously if there were safety issues that would be a different thing but to my knowledge it hadn't happened while I was there (that may be different in the nearly 9 years since graduation).

There were people giving bibles on specific days of each semester at every bus stop, there were anti-abortion billboards (quite large too) on campus showing aborted fetuses, there was a man I remember who spewed hatred at those who were gay (in a liberal and normally very accepting city too), and many more things. While I absolutely didn't agree with many of those things I have to say I appreciated that it was an open campus. That there was a venue to bring ideas not just from students but from people in general. Who knows maybe it even changed the minds of those people in general when approached by a student. My alma mater also had non-traditional students so those would include middle-aged adults. Not to mention grad students, professors, etc.

 

[Southernmiss]

I agree about trying to cause trouble because I've seen just how out of control that can get several hours away from me. There's ways of voicing your opinion that don't impede people's safety and ability to learn.

However, the college I went to was an open campus one. That meant you didn't need to be affiliated with campus at all to come and be on property and speak your mind. Now obviously if there were safety issues that would be a different thing but to my knowledge it hadn't happened while I was there (that may be different in the nearly 9 years since graduation).

There were people giving bibles on specific days of each semester at every bus stop, there were anti-abortion billboards (quite large too) on campus showing aborted fetuses, there was a man I remember who spewed hatred at those who were gay (in a liberal and normally very accepting city too), and many more things. While I absolutely didn't agree with many of those things I have to say I appreciated that it was an open campus. That there was a venue to bring ideas not just from students but from people in general. Who knows maybe it even changed the minds of those people in general when approached by a student. My alma mater also had non-traditional students so those would include middle-aged adults. Not to mention grad students, professors, etc.

Yes, these campuses were not able to prohibit the groups from gathering as they are open campuses.

But it did cause the campus and town police to decide that classes needed to be cancelled for student safety after seeing Facebook videos from the groups coming on campus in the days ahead of them coming.

That is ridiculous. That grown middle aged plus adults can't behave themselves.

The protesters then marched to the center of town to make their display again. My kids work feet from where they protested, as do a lot of the school's students. So it disrupted classes and normal campus activities and then businesses in town.

The town has now implemented ordinances to curtail some of this activity in the future.

 

[LSUmiss]

You realize that because another change doesn’t come the next day doesn’t mean it won’t. It’s been less than 2 years.

So how long do we wait on the edge of our seats?

 

[LSUmiss]

A question. Why was the statue not given to a museum in the area? And where is it?

Supposedly it will be in a museum & is being housed in a city warehouse for safe keeping. I don’t think it should be destroyed either. I think a museum is an appropriate place for it. I agree those who should have cared about Lee Circle didn’t at first here either & it was mostly outsiders who stirred the pot. I didn’t care or even notice it myself. However, I guess when something so egregious gets pointed out, sometimes it’s hard to ignore.