Ok friends...I need help-suggestions

[threecrazykids]

I received the following email from my son's MS teacher (5th grade). I really am trying to respond but I feel helpless...I have no idea how to help her with my sons constant

I am not able to be there obviously to assist, but any teachers, or other parents had to deal with this? What worked for you? (other than duct tape over his mouth) I have explained to him OVER AND OVER how disrespectful this is and how distracting it is to kids. He has literally an A+ in this class (Science) as it's his favorite subject. I suggested the teacher speak with his 4th grade teacher because she had problems at the very beginning of the school year last year, but nipped it about 2 weeks in. She said "he was bored, he already knew everything we were learning about so he wasn't challenged". This teacher? Not so much. She says she doesn't really care if he's "learning" things he already knows, she can't create 2 separate lessons, one for only him. I totally understand this, but how can I help? Below is the letter:

Dear Mrs.
Since the beginning of the year, as noted in my previous emails, I have been concerned with his extra blurting. I have tried to keep him busy, but on a regular basis he interrupts class. It is a big challenge to keep 25 kids on task once they are distracted. Just the other day, he and I talked in the hall again about this and its effects. But the next class he interrupted 4 times in the first 5 mins. Other teachers see this behavior as well. First block seems to be better than later in the day. He has an upbeat personality but even his peers get impatient with him for not being on track. I have tried different seating arrangements and reminded him at the beginning of the class to follow class expectations. He is so very social and is always talking. Any more suggestions?

 

[NHdisneylover]

I am not sure what to tell you to say to the teacher other than asking her if she has any advice on how you can work with her and your son to help and making sure she knows you are on her side.

As for your son my suggestion would be to explain to him that when he keeps his trap shut then teacher can get more taught and that increases the odds he WILL get to learn something in there eventually.

I would also be way past just talking to mine at this point. Tell him in no uncertain terms that if nothing else he will learn how to handle being bored without disrupting others in science class this year and there will be consequences at home for disrupting class starting right now. Then ground him, take away the x box, make him sit totally silently for the amount of time class was (which is what I would do--"you will demonstrate that you CAN do this--since you did not do it in class you will do it here"), or whatever. Check in with the teacher once a week via email to see if he has improved. It may take him a few weeks to realize you mean business but he'll get it.

 

[Fishbone†]

I am not sure what to tell you to say to the teacher other than asking her if she has any advice on how you can work with her and your son to help and making sure she knows you are on her side.

As for your son my suggestion would be to explain to him that when he keeps his trap shut then teacher can get more taught and that increases the odds he WILL get to learn something in there eventually.

I would also be way past just talking to mine at this point. Tell him in no uncertain terms that if nothing else he will learn how to handle being bored without disrupting others in science class this year and there will be consequences at home for disrupting class starting right now. Then ground him, take away the x box, make him sit totally silently for the amount of time class was (which is what I would do--"you will demonstrate that you CAN do this--since you did not do it in class you will do it here"), or whatever. Check in with the teacher once a week via email to see if he has improved. It may take him a few weeks to realize you mean business but he'll get it.

I agree. This is not the teacher's issue, it is your DS's. He has to learn to sit quietly when appropriate and respect other people and the rules. It's just part of life.

 

[threecrazykids]

I am not sure what to tell you to say to the teacher other than asking her if she has any advice on how you can work with her and your son to help and making sure she knows you are on her side.

As for your son my suggestion would be to explain to him that when he keeps his trap shut then teacher can get more taught and that increases the odds he WILL get to learn something in there eventually.

I would also be way past just talking to mine at this point. Tell him in no uncertain terms that if nothing else he will learn how to handle being bored without disrupting others in science class this year and there will be consequences at home for this starting right now. Then ground him, take away the x box, make him sit totally silently for the amount of time class was (which is what I would do--"you will demonstrate that you CAN do this--since you did not do it in class you will do it here"), or whatever. Check in with the teacher once a week via email to see if he has improved. It may take him a few weeks to realize you mean business but he'll get it.

ooooh...I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the suggestion of sitting quiet for the length of class at home! As far as grounding/taking things away we've tried that. It works temporarily but then I have run out of things to take. My kids don't have a whole lot to take away, but I'm gonna keep on finding things.

I am SO gonna try the sitting quiet suggestion though. 90 mins for block scheduling is a long time to sit completely quiet for a 5th grader I think...but that's a whole new "block scheduling" thread in and of itself.

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[threecrazykids]

I agree. This is not the teacher's issue, it is your DS's. He has to learn to sit quietly when appropriate and respect other people and the rules. It's just part of life.

I totally agree this isn't necessarily the teachers issue. But short of me being there with him to tell him to zip his lips what can I do?

 

[ols386]

If he already knows the material the class is covering, and is bored, can he be moved to a different class level where he would be more challenged?

 

[NHdisneylover]

ooooh...I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the suggestion of sitting quiet for the length of class at home! As far as grounding/taking things away we've tried that. It works temporarily but then I have run out of things to take. My kids don't have a whole lot to take away, but I'm gonna keep on finding things.

I am SO gonna try the sitting quiet suggestion though. 90 mins for block scheduling is a long time to sit completely quiet for a 5th grader I think...but that's a whole new "block scheduling" thread in and of itself.

Thanks for the suggestion!

I am glad you like the suggestion. My son (he's 11) doesn't really care if you take things away from him at all. So, I always have to think of other (more diabolical) punishments.

 

[barkley]

ooooh...I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the suggestion of sitting quiet for the length of class at home! As far as grounding/taking things away we've tried that. It works temporarily but then I have run out of things to take. My kids don't have a whole lot to take away, but I'm gonna keep on finding things.

I am SO gonna try the sitting quiet suggestion though. 90 mins for block scheduling is a long time to sit completely quiet for a 5th grader I think...but that's a whole new "block scheduling" thread in and of itself.

Thanks for the suggestion!

"if a 5th grader can sit quietly through a movie they can sit quietly through a class block of 90 minutes. if a 5th grader can sit quietly through 3 back to back episodes of yu-gi-oh or pokemon they can sit quietly through a class block of 90 minutes...".

insert "you" for "a 5th grader" and practice saying it outloud to yourself, to say to your son.



yes, you will sound like a broken record, but take it from this broken record (according to my son who has heard this same argument from me whenever the issue comes up)-it's the truth, and barring a medical condition it's an expectation of behaviour (and my ds tried to use his valid medical condition to excuse it, but as we pointed out-since he knows this is an issue his medical issue can cause problems with, all the more reason he need to apply himself to addressing it).


good luck.

 

[DawnCt1]

Would it be possible for you to attend that particular class with him? When one of my DSs was in 6th grade, he couldn't get to class on time although everyone else managed to move class to class in the allotted time. I told the principal that I would be happy to come in an escort him to his classes, just say the word. The principal then told DS that I would be walking with him between classes if his tardiness persisted. You can imagine how he picked up the pace. No one in middle school wants their mom walking them to class.

 

[Joy1619]

Hi threecrazykids!

I have a somewhat different take on this, as not only am I the parent of a 'chatting' son (grade 6) but also the daughter of two teachers (they taught for over 20 years from grade 4 to grade 8).

First of all, I disagree withe the PP who said it is not the teacher's issue. Yes, it is. Classroom management is always the teacher's issue, first and foremost. Yes, parents provide support, reinforcement, and consequences at home to back up the teacher and support him/her in any issues that arise - no question! My son is never 'off the hook' at home if something is brought to our attention. Having said that, however, classroom management falls directly in the teacher's court. I am at my desk at work - what am I going to do from there to help her run her classroom? There's nothing I can do to help her manage her classroom. Quite honestly, the 'other kids' being distracted is completely her problem, not yours.

Second, though, there are some things we have done over the years to try to impart to our son how important it is to listen when someone else is talking (whether teacher, parent, whoever). We went through a phase where we all (enlisted his sister and grandparents for this as well) interrupted him EVERY time he was talking. It frustrated him no end and broke through that mental barrier kids have about empathizing with others perspective. It did make him think about speaking before he spoke. We also did talk to the teacher and ask that she communicate with us (through our son's agenda, not sure if you have this, but email would work as well) whether our son had a 'good' day or 'bad' day with the talking, and his evenings and weekends were enjoyable or miserable accordingly! It quickly to a point where he really wanted to bring home a 'good day' report, and started self-monitoring his own behavior (which they have to do at some point because you're right, eventually you run out of things to take away lol). When he started being more conscious of his talking, THAT is when he learned control, and the lesson has stuck with him for 3 years now - we haven't had those complaints again.

According to my teacher parents (and my teacher in-laws) most kids that age get the 'blurts' once in a while, and a lot of them go through stages of a year or more where they are either bored, or just so eager to share their own thoughts with whoever will listen, that they have a hard time containing themselves! Teachers are trained to deal with this, and should have the patience and fortitude to deal with the student and the parent without resorting to 'blame' emails where they cite unknown 'other teachers' and 'other students' to make you feel guilty. If other teachers had a real issue, they would let you know. On the bright side, however, teachers tell me that this is a sign of a social, well-adjusted, and eager-to-share (i.e. self-confident) individual, which is really good news, because when your son learns some self-monitoring and control, he will be ahead of the game in interpersonal interaction!

Good luck!

 

[shirleyb]

I noticed the "blurting" comment, versus just being social. I had a few kids when I was a scout leader that did that, and the teacher is right, it was extremely annoying. Can you observe his behaviour in another setting where he might be doing the same thing and try to point it out to him? Or maybe when he's trying to tell a story, do the same thing to him so he can see how annoying it is to the speaker.

 

[lovetoscrap]

If the problem is boredom then can you work with him and the teacher to come up with a list of things for him to do when he is done with his work? Things like a notebook that he can draw or write in, coloring materials to be creative with, books to read, and maybe a packet of extra work to do. If the teacher isn't willing to put the effort into it maybe you can. There are lots of resources on line you can print or go to the local Teacher Supply Store and find a Summer Learning Activities Book for his grade level or a workbook. If that seems unfair to him then stress that once he proves he can occupy himself appropriately without the extra work he won't have to do it any more.

I have no idea if schools will/can do this anymore but when I was a kid way back when, a teacher got a large box, like a refrigerator box and cut away the back side, placed it in the corner of the room away from everyone and put a kid that wouldn't stop talking it in for a few weeks. You can also make a less drastic version with a smaller box set on top of a desk or table. This is probably too damaging to their "self esteem" to do now, but I would have no problem with it for my kid.

And yes, 90 minute blocks are probably not appropriate for 5th graders.

 

[threecrazykids]

"if a 5th grader can sit quietly through a movie they can sit quietly through a class block of 90 minutes. if a 5th grader can sit quietly through 3 back to back episodes of yu-gi-oh or pokemon they can sit quietly through a class block of 90 minutes...".

insert "you" for "a 5th grader" and practice saying it outloud to yourself, to say to your son.



yes, you will sound like a broken record, but take it from this broken record (according to my son who has heard this same argument from me whenever the issue comes up)-it's the truth, and barring a medical condition it's an expectation of behaviour (and my ds tried to use his valid medical condition to excuse it, but as we pointed out-since he knows this is an issue his medical issue can cause problems with, all the more reason he need to apply himself to addressing it).


good luck.

I do know he's able to sit for 90 mins quiet because yes, he can watch TV for that long in silence. BUT in that same argument-would he sit and watch something he already knew the ending of or an episode he'd already seen over and over? Maybe not- he for sure would pay less attention and maybe be less interested in watching.

Either way, it's disrespectful and distracting. I'm not making excuses for his behavior, he needs to zip it and not disrupt the rest of the class. However, I am not there...nor am I in charge of her class so I guess I'm just not sure what she wants me to suggest?

 

[threecrazykids]

Would it be possible for you to attend that particular class with him? When one of my DSs was in 6th grade, he couldn't get to class on time although everyone else managed to move class to class in the allotted time. I told the principal that I would be happy to come in an escort him to his classes, just say the word. The principal then told DS that I would be walking with him between classes if his tardiness persisted. You can imagine how he picked up the pace. No one in middle school wants their mom walking them to class.

I think this is an awesome idea! Maybe if he thought I was going to have to come to school to monitor his behavior he'd think twice about having his mom at school!

 

[NHdisneylover]

Popping back to say that my kids have 2 hour blocks with a 10 minute break in the middle (but all the same subject for those 3 hours). They cover just one "core" subject the first three hours every day and switch topics every 4 weeks. It seems to work just fine with the kids in the school and they start with 90 minute blocks in second grade and move into the longer blocks at fourth grade. It is absolutely possible for kids that age to work in longer blocks of time (even my son whose has to try to stay awake in math right now--he does his older sister's math "for fun" at home).

 

[Wishing on a star]

There is a kid who was like this at this age in DS Karate....
I will use this as an example.
I firmly believe that this was a very real issue with impulse-control, add, and other associated factors..... Def. not what I would consider a true behavioral problem or disrespect. ( Yes, I have information that this child has been diagnosed with some issues, and it really is fairly obvious....)

IMHO, just from what is being posted... I have no doubt that your son may be talking too much, interrupting, etc... So, I will preface by saying that I am NOT offering excuses or a free pass.

I will tell you how the Karate instructor handled this, and base my thoughts on having seen a similar situation.

I do think that the teacher could be more proactive in handling this kind of situation. I might consider telling her that I understand, and am trying to do what I can, but maybe some more immediate proactive steps in the classroom would be most helpful.

During times when the classroom must be structured and on-task... perhaps your son's seat should be up front, and as separated as possible from other students...... In fact, I would have it set up that way just as 'the way it is'. When the first words come out of his mouth, I might interrupt him right then and there, every time, with some kind of words or signal that are 'code' for 'silence NOW'..... If he is still too impulsive with his comments, and can't curb the behavior, I would then move to having him, immediately, on the spot, end his commentary and repeat "I am very sorry for interrupting...."

With the Karate instructor, his on the spot thing was something like 'five push-ups'.

An 'intercept and deflect' type of thing.

If your kid is similar to the kid in my DS Karate, I am happy to say that given a little time, he got MUCH better!!!!

 

[okeydokey]

I totally agree this isn't necessarily the teachers issue. But short of me being there with him to tell him to zip his lips what can I do?

Have the teacher let you know daily how he did that day. If he did not do what was expected, then implement an at home consequence that day. If is happens again the next day, repeat the first consequence and add a second. Continue on all week, adding consequences as needed. On Monday the following week, start over with a clean slate.

He needs to learn that his behavior is rude to his teacher and classmates.

 

[erincon23]

The teacher mentions that other teachers have noticed this as well -- does he exhibit any other signs of ADD? Uncontrollable impulsiveness is one sign. I'm a substitute teacher in elementary school, and have to deal with quite a few kids like this -- had two of them the other day -- and it's REALLY tough. Sometimes the teachers will have kids sit on a special cushion or put a bungee cord around the legs of their chair to give them something to quietly fidget with (or give them a squeeze ball -- they learn to squeeze the ball whenever they want to inappropriately say something).

 

[threecrazykids]

Hi threecrazykids!

I have a somewhat different take on this, as not only am I the parent of a 'chatting' son (grade 6) but also the daughter of two teachers (they taught for over 20 years from grade 4 to grade 8).

First of all, I disagree withe the PP who said it is not the teacher's issue. Yes, it is. Classroom management is always the teacher's issue, first and foremost. Yes, parents provide support, reinforcement, and consequences at home to back up the teacher and support him/her in any issues that arise - no question! My son is never 'off the hook' at home if something is brought to our attention. Having said that, however, classroom management falls directly in the teacher's court. I am at my desk at work - what am I going to do from there to help her run her classroom? There's nothing I can do to help her manage her classroom. Quite honestly, the 'other kids' being distracted is completely her problem, not yours.

Second, though, there are some things we have done over the years to try to impart to our son how important it is to listen when someone else is talking (whether teacher, parent, whoever). We went through a phase where we all (enlisted his sister and grandparents for this as well) interrupted him EVERY time he was talking. It frustrated him no end and broke through that mental barrier kids have about empathizing with others perspective. It did make him think about speaking before he spoke. We also did talk to the teacher and ask that she communicate with us (through our son's agenda, not sure if you have this, but email would work as well) whether our son had a 'good' day or 'bad' day with the talking, and his evenings and weekends were enjoyable or miserable accordingly! It quickly to a point where he really wanted to bring home a 'good day' report, and started self-monitoring his own behavior (which they have to do at some point because you're right, eventually you run out of things to take away lol). When he started being more conscious of his talking, THAT is when he learned control, and the lesson has stuck with him for 3 years now - we haven't had those complaints again.

According to my teacher parents (and my teacher in-laws) most kids that age get the 'blurts' once in a while, and a lot of them go through stages of a year or more where they are either bored, or just so eager to share their own thoughts with whoever will listen, that they have a hard time containing themselves! Teachers are trained to deal with this, and should have the patience and fortitude to deal with the student and the parent without resorting to 'blame' emails where they cite unknown 'other teachers' and 'other students' to make you feel guilty. If other teachers had a real issue, they would let you know. On the bright side, however, teachers tell me that this is a sign of a social, well-adjusted, and eager-to-share (i.e. self-confident) individual, which is really good news, because when your son learns some self-monitoring and control, he will be ahead of the game in interpersonal interaction!

Good luck!

Thank you for this! Very good suggestions and also great information!

 

[kamik86]

If the problem is boredom then can you work with him and the teacher to come up with a list of things for him to do when he is done with his work? Things like a notebook that he can draw or write in, coloring materials to be creative with, books to read, and maybe a packet of extra work to do. If the teacher isn't willing to put the effort into it maybe you can. There are lots of resources on line you can print or go to the local Teacher Supply Store and find a Summer Learning Activities Book for his grade level or a workbook. If that seems unfair to him then stress that once he proves he can occupy himself appropriately without the extra work he won't have to do it any more.

I agree with this. I was the the validictorian of my high school, always one of the top in my class even before that and yet EVERY parent teacher conference all my mom would hear about is how much I talk in class. I hated school until I got to college becuase I was bored out of my mind. The only classes I liked were the ones that all the other kids hated because they were too hard. I had many amazing teachers that helped me find other things to do or even DID give me harder assignments. I remember a particular science test in 10th grade that was so hard and I was really nervous after because normally if I had trouble on a test everyone else did too... I found out later from the teacher she gave me a different test to keep me busy the whole time and was really proud of me for not panicing and doing so well on it. Most of the others weren't this drastic though, in elementary school it was generally just an open invitation to read a book if I'm done with the work I should be doing. In High school it was teachers that looked the other way when I was clearly doing the homework for my other class while listening to them teach and taking notes on the rare occasions I needed to. (this allowed me to get all my homework done before I went home 90% of the time which was great too)

Now one question for you... Is he talking more when they are supposed to be doing something (like the class got a worksheet or should be reading and he is done) or is he actually interrupting the teacher too? The second is a much bigger problem IMO the first is easier to fix.

For times when your done I suggest:
1) Books, even better if they are educational as then the teachers don't get annoyed as easily.
2) Doing work for other classes (this does take a bit of planning to make sure you have the stuff you need for both the hw for another class and stuff you need)

For when the teacher is talking
1) Draw, even if just in the margins of the notes you should be taking.
2) Write notes to friends (to hand out in between classes obviously not in class as teachers don't like this one either)
3) Plan what your going to do this weekend/evening whatever.

I would also recommend seeing if there is anyway he could be in a more advanced class. I really emphasize with him on how awful it is to sit bored for 90 min... espeically if you know there are 1000's of more important/more fun things you could be doing right now. This is why I loved college they took all the dumb busy work out of the classroom. If the teacher was done they just let you leave instead of handing out another worksheet that only takes 5 min and making you sit there for 15 with nothing to do.