oh Dear! Virgin really are losing it!

[Hilary]

I still do not believe the "hype" thats associated with Virgin - frankly - IMHO they've always been just averaage.

My thoughts, too. We've never found them to be any better or worse than the other carriers we've used. Some flights have been a bit better than others and some worse but, overall, they all seem to come out pretty much equal in the bigger picture.

However, I do remember being disappointed on our first flight with VA in 1995 because we'd been led to believe they were something special and not like other airlines.

I'll still book with whoever suits our requirements best for each particular trip with price / UK airport / seating. That's why I'd rather collect AirMiles than Virgin miles, as they can be used for more than one airline, including Virgin. We've got some Virgin miles now, but haven't found any incentive to use them so far.

 

[CustardTart]

Even tho' they've screwed up with my air miles - I'm about to drop back down from the silver tier whilst DH has virtually double my points despite the fact we've taken the same flights for the past year or so - I always fly Virgin as I detest BA. I can't think of a good flight I've ever had with them.

Hype or no hype, IMO Virgin offer more comfortable flights and that's a priority as DH often goes to straight to work from LGW - nuts, I know, but he says it helps counteract jetlag... Having said that, my DD and I have nervously agreed to try TCD's Sunshine First next year as she's on a budget and it's so darn cheap!

 

[Lindy Loo]

Sadly Virgin are way past their best. and other airlines are close on their heels.

Ba are not charging customers the extra £20 green tax, they are absorbing it..................are Virgin ???? no apparently!

We will fly with who ever now, in the 90's we flew at least twice a year EVERY year with Virgin. We never looked anywhere else, cos they we good, now they are all as good or bad as each other. Shame really!

 

[carolfoy]

There are several problems that are rearing their heads with Virgin recently, their call centres are ridiculously undermanned in this country therefore the majority of calls are now diverted to Delhi, They are employing more and more homeworkers to take customer service and reservation enquiries, therefore you'll have a hard job speaking to the same person twice and if theres a problem the homeworker has to still get in contact with Virgin hq so they are then frustrated by waiting to get through.
But on the plus side they are not so strike happy as BA, who, although state they are absorbing the APD will still be collecting it somehow, they are not going to override the complete cost on their thousands of flights a week (don't forget they've got the majority share in european and domestic routes). The main problem with both really is how they're treating their long standing and loyal customers (the frequent fliers) as those people aren't getting the better deals they feel they should be entitled to, in fact with on going 'seat sales' 'free upgrade' offers etc almost any customer can get a good deal by shopping around.

 

[Lisash]

I never thought I'd see the day Obi .... They have been going down in my estimation for some time now. The aircraft we travelled on for our last couple of trips has been very tired indeed (cracked mirrors held in with gaffer tape, seat back tables that won't stay up, entertainment system not working to name but a few problems) one of those flights was an early morning Heathrow to New York weekday flight which had a number of business travellers on board. They were all very vocal about their dissatisfaction with VA to the cabin crew who issued vouchers for £25 off the next flight or duty free purchase. To say they were not impressed is something of an understatement. We have so far remained loyal to them as we believed they offered 'that bit more' but sadly as they become more and more average we will probably look elsewhere

 

[gavvy]

Virgin seem to be run by poor managment these days- if you have flown with them for a number of years as I have the cut backs are obvious.

They have really got me upset though over this air passanger duty increase, it seems they are sitting on the fence still and havent a clue how they are going to collect the duty.

I have a flight with them on the 6th feb and have asked them 3 times now what is happening and they still dont know- they should either come up with a workable plan or just asorb the increase themselves as BA have done.

Ive got images of total chaos again in gatwick- and this time it will be VS fault- other airlines seem to have worked out what they need to do.

Poor managment!

 

[mushumadness]

we fly them in november, I have sent jordans special need form in four times, and they still dont have the wheelchair needs inputed into the system, I can imagine getting to the airport and being told the chair cant go

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

we fly them in november, I have sent jordans special need form in four times, and they still dont have the wheelchair needs inputed into the system, I can imagine getting to the airport and being told the chair cant go

Mush, I take it you have contacted Special services by telephone direct?
If not try 0870 380 2004

 

[Wednesday till I die]

The miles + money thing is a bit of a strange one - you have to be very patient and keep checking the site. Just recently got peak time (July) flights for family of four for £1800 + 8,000 miles. Should have been £2600, and I think it has gone up since then.

Service to me, seems similar as it has always been, no better certainly, but not a great deal worse either.

Been with many other carriers, but from Manchester at least, they are still out in front.

Barry.

 

[Boo Boo Too]

I don't think that many airlines make it easy to redeem airmiles...

We collect BA miles and generally use them once or twice a year to upgrade WT+ fares to Club World. When I started doing it (about 3 years ago), there was quite a lot of availability, the lowest WT+ fares were about £560/£650 return and sales fares could be upgraded. Now availability is pretty sketchy (or non-existant to some destinations - like LA or Oz), WT+ fares ate £830/£950 return and any sale fares are nolonger upgradeable.

I generally look to book flights about 6 months in advance and, if we use airmiles ot upgrade the transatlantic sectors, I have to be very flexible with dates and often poits of entry/exit to the US (and buy internal flight to connect to the BA flights).

I THINK it is probably because more airmiles are in existance and more people are using them: airlines are probably reducing their quota of available seats, but you are also competing with more people for those seats. You will also find that airlines may very well not have ANY seats available on certain routes on certain days: they know that they can easily sell the seats for cold hard cash, so don't bother releasing them for redemption bookings.

Continental have a very nice BusinessFirst product - nice seats (although they are flat, but not horizantal - they slope) and rather good food service etc. The only problem with BHX-EWR-MCO is that you have a relatively short international (BF) sector and a relatively long Domestic First sector. Continental is ok in Domestic First, but it doesn't compare with their International BusinessFirst product. I don't know where you live (i.e. that would affect your choice), but I would go for the BA direct Club World flights out of Gatwick (less hanging around at airports and a proper Business Cass product all the way to your destination).

Still, it is not a bad dilemna to have (i.e. which business class...) . Personally I quite enjoy trying different Business/First Class products - nice to have variety.

Boo

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Interestingly enough (but not a surprsie really) the difference in price between BA Club World and VS Upper class is £24.70 for the three of us, around £8.23 each more expensive to fly VS over BA.

Continental from BHX is £345.20 more than BA (£115.07 each)

Financially, when you add hotel and car parking at BHX or LGW the difference comes down to £229 extra from BHX and £24.70 VS over BA.
When you add the additional time and flights with Continental, vs the drive back to Warwickshire, the choice narrowly points towards LGW, but only if you can sleep on the way home, which I can in NCW or UC.

Then it comes down to BA Vs VS and what you get.

Both have dedicated check in desks
VS win on Clubhouse,
VS Narrowly win on the beds and the seating configuration (One of us would either have someone sitting next to us and climbing over us to get to the aisle or us having to disturb them in NCW)
The VS cabin is slightly better in terms of ambiance and having the bar.
The VS sleep suits are great
BA have a better amienity kit, though after all the complaints VS are FINALLY introducing a new kit.
BA win on food hands down
Both have rubbish IFE
Both airlines use the same lounge at MCO!
VS have Downtown Disney check in
Both now have shower and breakfast facilities when you get back to LGW, this used to be a minus for VS as they did not have a revivals lounge, now they share US airways facilities.


Decisions, decisions.......

is there anything I have missed out?

 

[carolfoy]

only that BA are more prone to strikes!

 

[Boo Boo Too]

Then it comes down to BA Vs VS and what you get.

Both have dedicated check in desks
VS win on Clubhouse,
VS Narrowly win on the beds and the seating configuration (One of us would either have someone sitting next to us and climbing over us to get to the aisle or us having to disturb them in NCW)
The VS cabin is slightly better in terms of ambiance and having the bar.
The VS sleep suits are great
BA have a better amienity kit, though after all the complaints VS are FINALLY introducing a new kit.
BA win on food hands down
Both have rubbish IFE
Both airlines use the same lounge at MCO!
VS have Downtown Disney check in
Both now have shower and breakfast facilities when you get back to LGW, this used to be a minus for VS as they did not have a revivals lounge, now they share US airways facilities.

The BA Lounge at LGW isn't bad at all - ok doesn't have the same level of food or the beauty therapists, but otherwise it is fine.
Agree with you about the UC Suites being superior, but the BA Club World seats aren't bad for a descent night's sleep or long nap during the day.
BA don't have "dine when you want", but they have recently improved their "raid the pantry".
BA now have thin duvets instead of blankets (they are not as good as VS's, BUT they are Ok and a lot better than the old staticy blankets).
It is nice of VS to provide sleepsuits, BUT they are rarely a good fit (could probably get the rest of the cabin in a medium size with me ): it is often more comfortable and cooler to bring your own sleep PJs (that's what I do with Club World).
I haven't used the BA arrivals facilities at LGW or the US arrivals lounge, but I would guess that the US one is better and more convenient than the BA one. BA uses a couple of hotel rooms (or could be the leisure facility shower facilities by now) at the Sofitel, whereas US has a dedicated lounge (which is likely to be better). Although BA might provide vouchers for a better breakfast at the Sofitel... The US Arrivals Lounge is in the arrivals hall, whereas the Sofitel is a bit of a hike (especially if youy have a bit of luggage).
I find that BA Club World cabin crew tend to be constently more professional than VS UC cabin crew. With VS you can have a GREAT crew or a really quite shocking crew. With BA you tend to get consistently good crews (and less "over-familiar/friendly"...)

Of course BA are currently bringing out there revamped Club World product - http://www.newclubworld.com/ - but don't know how long it will take to get to the LGW-MCO route ("bucket and spade" routes tend to get these updates later than the business routes...)

Virgin tends to have a more "glitzy" product with more thrills. BA is more "business-like" but consistent.

Boo

 

[CustardTart]

...I find that BA Club World cabin crew tend to be constently more professional than VS UC cabin crew. With VS you can have a GREAT crew or a really quite shocking crew. With BA you tend to get consistently good crews (and less "over-familiar/friendly"...)

It just goes to show that everyone's experiences are different - I have never experienced a BA cabin crew that didn't veer between (at best) indifferent/incompetent and (at worst) downright rude! My last trip to Montreal was appalling and I've steered clear of BA since then. I've only ever had one poor VA experience and that was way back in 2001 - EWR to LGW and the staff were very overstretched...

 

[Boo Boo Too]

It just goes to show that everyone's experiences are different - I have never experienced a BA cabin crew that didn't veer between (at best) indifferent/incompetent and (at worst) downright rude! My last trip to Montreal was appalling and I've steered clear of BA since then. I've only ever had one poor VA experience and that was way back in 2001 - EWR to LGW and the staff were very overstretched...

Indeed - people do have different experiences.

Have only had one experience of "incompetent" crew in Club World and that was explained because BA had just swapped a whole load of crews from Short Haul to Long Haul that day - so they were actually COMPLETELY new to the type of aircraft and the procedures of running a Club World cabin... Inexcusably bad of BA - they should have given the crew the appropriate training before swapping them - but not the fault of the crew. Was your Club World flight to Montreal during this past October? If so, your flight may have been affected by the same problem...

I have never been given the "I don't give a stuff" attitude by BA crew (which is the impression I have had from VS crew on occasions) and I have been yelled at by both Virgin UC Check-in staff (for asking for a lounge pass to the VS lounge whilst flying on a Continental Ticket on a Virgin plane - something I was completely entitled to...) and Virgin UC flight crew (for asking for a green visa waiver form about two hours before landing). Both times I was my usual sweet, very polite self.... so it wasn't me provoking them...

Some VS crews are amazing, but I find it a bit of a lottery... A bad VS crew deosn't put me off of flying VS though.

Boo

 

[CustardTart]

...Was your Club World flight to Montreal during this past October? If so, your flight may have been affected by the same problem...

No, it was way back in March 2005 - a situation with an extremely rude steward and my DS asking (politely) for a drink. Sounds ridiculous, I know and TBH I don't normally get on my high horse about stuff, usually preferring to roll with it as that's the less stressful option BUT this guy was something else. I suppose everyone has a bad day at the office but, for me, this negative experience was the straw that broke the camel's back...

Since then, we've not wanted to go anywhere that makes a BA flight unavoidable tho' I'm sure that can't stay the same forever - hopefully BA won't ever be my only choice...

 

[Boo Boo Too]

No, it was way back in March 2005 - a situation with an extremely rude steward and my DS asking (politely) for a drink. Sounds ridiculous, I know and TBH I don't normally get on my high horse about stuff, usually preferring to roll with it as that's the less stressful option BUT this guy was something else. I suppose everyone has a bad day at the office but, for me, this negative experience was the straw that broke the camel's back...

Hmmm, sounds like my experience with the VS cabin crew (over the green visa waiver form) - both your son and I mad completely reasonable requests in completely polite terms, but got snapped at . I think that both of us did get someone in a bad mood who couldn't act professionally...

I am learning, slowly, not to put up with that sort of behaviour from customer service people and would look to speaking to their superior directly after the incident next time.

Boo

Boo

 

[CustardTart]

Hmmm, sounds like my experience with the VS cabin crew (over the green visa waiver form) - both your son and I mad completely reasonable requests in completely polite terms, but got snapped at . I think that both of us did get someone in a bad mood who couldn't act professionally...

This guy snapped at him, rolled his eyes at another passenger (not realising they were in our party) and called DS a "brat" under his breath! Unfortunately DH and I didn't realise all this had gone on until after we returned as poor DS didn't want to make a fuss - bless him. Hence the decision to vote with our wallets and not fly BA - until VA pee me off of course...


And now I've absolutely got to get off these boards as I've done hardly any work today!

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

green waiver forms are available in the VS Clubhouse. just grab a load next time and fill trhem in prior to your trip :-0

 

[Boo Boo Too]

green waiver forms are available in the VS Clubhouse. just grab a load next time and fill trhem in prior to your trip :-0

They are also available at check-in.... I think - for some reason - I just didn't get any that trip... Virgin (at least used to) hand them out fairly late on the plane (an hour before landing) and I like to get filling them in out of the way (don't like doing it whilst you are getting ready to land)... hence why I asked for flight attendant for them. It seemed like a tame request at the time (I asked very nicely and we had paid £1500 per passenger for the flight - so didn't think it was a completely unreasonable request). The flight attendant literally yelled at me "you cannot have one now, we will hand them out later when we are ready!" I was lost for words...

Boo