Official policy for small kids on busses ?

[Disneyolic]

Familes with members who shouldn't stand shouldn't board a full bus. Wait for the next bus.

I thought this too. I think I would rather wait with my family for the next bus than to have to stand in unsafe conditions. I know it's hard in the morning when we just want to "get to the park" or at night when we are tired and just want to return. But, it would make more sense to wait. Most of the time, during busy times, another bus is less than 15 minutes away.

 

[taximomfor4]

One small child right next to me (maybe 6 or so ?) returning from Princess and Pirate Night party, we so exhausted and unstable on his feet that his parents told him to sit on the floor of the bus. He ended up falling asleep sprawled out on the floor while others stood around him and tried not to step on him as the bus made it's turns and stops. It was difficult. I really felt for those that were unable to get seats (young and elderly) because seats were being taken up with toddlers who I felt would be just as safe as the rest of us on the bus sitting on their parents laps. Safety is a joke really when talking about disney busses. The one driver stated it was "safest for small children to have their own seats", but then proceeds to pack the bus to capacity and leaves many others (elderly and young like that little 6 yo boy) to fend for themselves. .

Not that I want any children to get hurt, of course, but as a parent, I am protecting my own children the best I can. Often, that means spreading a towel on the cement in the bus line, seating the kids on it to rest, and waiting for the NEXT bus. Any parents putting their little kids on a standing-room-only bus should be the ones to feel responsible if anything happens to their kids because of that decision.

And any time people have sat on the floor of a WDW bus, the driver has refused to drive until that person stood up. THAT announcement, I have heard!

Oh, and we have never had a driver refuse to let us stand aside + wait for the next bus.

Beth

 

[cranbiz]

Where does one draw the line?

If the bus is considered full with every seat full and no one standing then everyone will complain about wait times. If we pack the bus to attempt to reasonablly accomodate as many guests as possible we now have complaints about crowded busses.

Do we now check park admission to assure that only guests that have paid admisson have seats? If so, then that would mean that all 3 y/o children are now entitled to a seat.

The problem here is to ensure that no one has to stand means a larger fleet of busses. That also means more drivers, Guest service managers, mechanics, larger fuel and maintenance costs, etc. That costs money. Who is going to pay for it....... Wait.....you got it.......YOU!

Now in the case of the child on the floor, that is a big nono. The aisles are susposed to be clear at all times, now I know that when the bus is packed, the aisles are not clear, but guests who are standing can move fairly quickly to clear an aisle in an emergency, a child who is on the floor will not move as quickly and stands a good chance of being trampled in an emergency. I have been asked about sitting on the floor and my response is always no.

As Bicker said, if you don't like the conditions on the current bus, wait for another. At last I saw, no one was forcing a guest to get on a bus that they were uncomfortable riding. Last week many guests chose that option. But when the conditions got real cold a week ago, nobody complained about how packed the busses were. At 3am all anyone wanted was to get back to their resorts.

I take offense at the comment about safety being a joke. Very few drivers would want anyone to get hurt. Most if not all will adjust their speed to ensure that a buss full of guests get from point A to B safely. Drivers really do try to be helpful, that's why a guest will get one type of response from one driver and a different response from another. It's all in the drivers interpretation of safety.

 

[taximomfor4]

Cranbiz, thanks for the thoughtful post.

I will keep an eye out for you in a few weeks!

Beth

 

[MiaSRN62]

Bicker says :Familes with members who shouldn't stand shouldn't board a full bus. Wait for the next bus.

True....it could take quite a long while to get where you want to then. We waited 25-30 min to get on a packed bus (the first one that came). I guess alot of families should just wait an hour or more to assure getting a seat then ? It is free choice. But then disney needs to advertise their busses could take up to an hour if you want to get a seat. Also, often times, you walk on to a bus not realizing you're not getting a seat until your packed in. One time it looked like we'd get a seat but there were none once we were on. The bus drivers need to tell people getting on, once they've reached capacity of seating (maybe a counter or something).

cranbiz says :Now in the case of the child on the floor, that is a big nono. The aisles are susposed to be clear at all times, now I know that when the bus is packed, the aisles are not clear, but guests who are standing can move fairly quickly to clear an aisle in an emergency, a child who is on the floor will not move as quickly and stands a good chance of being trampled in an emergency. I have been asked about sitting on the floor and my response is always no.

Well....saw this often this past week (stayed at POP). There simply was not enough busses to handle the crowds this past week.

cranbiz says :I take offense at the comment about safety being a joke. Very few drivers would want anyone to get hurt. Most if not all will adjust their speed to ensure that a buss full of guests get from point A to B safely.

Did not mean to offend. It's just the bus situations are not safe by any means (regardless of what parents think)and having small ones get their own seats does not insure "added" safety unless seatbelts are provided imho. When the busses are that packed (as they consistantly were), anyone standing can loose footing and fall on to a small child sitting down. Saw a few close calls this past week. I wasn't referring to the bus drivers personally not wanting safe conditions, but rather the way the situation is as it stands. Like you said, we would all pay for it and if we're truly talking "SAFETY", then I feel it's worth it to have more busses and seatbelts would be nice too ! Again, nothing personal against bus drivers, but I just didn't get the announcement of them saying it was safer to have little ones have their own seats, yet at the same time, allowing little ones (and elderly) to stand/lay on packed busses and not have steady footing. It's like it was safe for some and dangerous for others at the same time if you know what I'm trying to say.

 

[taximomfor4]

Did not mean to offend. It's just the bus situations are not safe by any means (regardless of what parents think)and having small ones get their own seats does not insure "added" safety unless seatbelts are provided imho.

I made the decisions I did about waiting till my kids will have seats, based on an injury my dd sustained while I had another dd on my lap. I could have prevented her flying off her seat, if I had NOT had a child on my lap. I do suppose that if one of my kids gets hurt because they are in their own seats, I will re-evaluate at that time. I just know that FOR MY FAMILY, I have more ability to help all of my kids when none are on my lap. See, before dd got hurt, I did pull a child on my lap.

 

[goofy4tink]

WE have been down this road many, many times. It has been proven that not everyone here is going to agree.
But, I do have to come to the defense of the drivers. They have no problem with you waiting for another bus if you choose to...that is your call. Since nobody can 'make' someone else give up a seat, each person is going to have to make that call...board now and stand, or wait 15 mins and get a seat.
I have heard people complain when a driver has reduced his speed due to a very full bus...yep, you heard me right...people complained!!! You could overhear the muttering...."Man, we'll never get there at this speed!" or "I could have walked faster than this bucket is moving!" or, even better yet.."Sheesh, did this guy just get his license? Doesn't he know how to drive faster than 40!!?"
The Disney buses are very safe. Anyone who wishes to not take a chance of not getting a seat, may be better off renting a car. There will never be enough buses or drivers to cater to those crowded park opening and park closing times.

 

[jodifla]

Holy smokes! This is why we drive everywhere but the MK!

 

[MiaSRN62]

The Disney buses are very safe

This I can't agree with---not during crammed standing room only times---which is often. But that is your opinion. It's nothing against the drivers. They do what they can with what disney provides.

I used to hold my kids when they were small and felt I had as reasonably good control as possible. I've seen parents involved in chatting and not keeping an eye on their little ones sitting alone. Saw some standing on the seats....others almost slipping off. One can lose control whether holding them or if they are sitting alone----neither is truly what I would define safe. If there are no seatbelts & crowded conditions, then accidents can always occur regardless of how much control people think they have to protect their child.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Holy smokes! This is why we drive everywhere but the MK!

LOL ! 110 % with ya Jodifla ! We only use the busses to the MK anymore ! Hate the feeling of being packed like a herd of cows onto those busses. I do feel the POP busses were more crowded than when we stay at OKW or the VWL (our other two most recent stays in Aug and Oct).
Safer and more comfortable driving our car overall.

 

[bicker]

I thought this too. I think I would rather wait with my family for the next bus than to have to stand in unsafe conditions. I know it's hard in the morning when we just want to "get to the park" or at night when we are tired and just want to return. But, it would make more sense to wait. Most of the time, during busy times, another bus is less than 15 minutes away.

To be fair, I should soften what I said earlier. Each family needs to make its own decisions regarding this. However, if you board a full bus, then you are making the decision to take the risk of standing, the risk to yourself and all members of your family, onto yourself. Someone might choose to take that risk onto themselves as a gift to you, but you have to acknowledge that that is a gift from a stranger (and given what is being risked, a pretty generous gift at that) and not something which it is reasonable to expect.

 

[bicker]

If the bus is considered full with every seat full and no one standing then everyone will complain about wait times.

If it really became a major issue for people, I bet those people would be willing to pay sufficiently more to provide for more and better transportation choices. What's available is a reflection of the balancing act we all do. The issue, therefore, is a matter of being clear that folks shouldn't deceive themselves about what boarding a full bus means: It means taking a risk. Guests who refuse to acknowledge that reality typically end up blaming others, whether it be other guests or Disney, if that risk doesn't work out for them.

I take offense at the comment about safety being a joke.

Yes, that was a very inappropriate statement IMHO.

 

[cranbiz]

Last week there were 90 busses dedicated to MK plus the addition of 10 "Floaters" from other parks (that's 1/3 of the fleet). I don't know what more could have been done (except have more busses in the fleet)

Like I stated before, adding more busses to handle crowds on a busy week cost's money and then they are underutilized most of the year.

MiaSRN62: You stated that there were not enough busses servicing POP the other week, What would you do different?

During the "less busy" hours we dispatch using "Magic on Demand" .That means we call in for a dispatch and are directed to a stop depending on the level of guests in the queue. There is also less busses on the road then as the demand is lower.

At busier times like after Spectromagic, Wishes and at closing time, we go to a visual dispatch system. That means that there are coordinators out in the loadzones advising the dispatcher which stop is in need of servicing. Due to the sheer numbers of guests that stay at POP/All Stars/POR/POFC these resorts get the lions share of the busses at these times. Even so, you still need to service the other resorts and let's not forget, it takes time to travel to a resort and run the route. I saw/heard POP being doubled up (2 busses loading at the same time) most of the night. That, to me, indicates that there were enough busses available.

Let's not forget that if a bus needs to load a wheel chair, it will take longer and if a bus is in a loadzone another bus will not be dispatched until the first bus clears. Therefore, it may take longer for a guest to get on a bus when it's busy but all in all the system works pretty good.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Yes, that was a very inappropriate statement IMHO.
__________________

Well I did apologize and explain that I didn't mean it as cranbiz took it. What else should I do ? I totally did not mean it how cranbiz took it, so I explained it better in the following post Bicker.

MiaSRN62: You stated that there were not enough busses servicing POP the other week, What would you do different?

Well Cranbiz, there are folks that are paid big bucks at disney to figure out this sort of thing. When, on certain nights, there is only one particular park that is opened late----increase the busses to and from that park. Saturday night, the MK was the only park open late (11 pm). EVERYONE flocked to that park obviously. Why can't the busses that are normally used for MGM and AK be used to make bus rides less crowded and safer ? Disney had to know that things would get crowded during President Week's with peak park attendance and the fact that they only keep one park open late that night ? Disney is building more resorts/rooms, yet they need to consider more busses ---and eventually down the line another park. The parks are the same size, yet the wdw resort room capacity is growing. This is going to equate to heavier crowds in the existing parks. Disney doesn't have too many "slow" seasons left anymore. It was packed the first week of October and the first week of December when I was there as well.
If disney feels they are doing the best they can with the packed busses, then I'm sure nothing I say will make a difference. All I know, is that the many packed bus situations I witnessed this past week (and during the summer months) would hardly be what I consider very safe as some have suggested. I already said I'd be willing to pay more for safety/comfort, but doubt most people would agree. Unfortunately, it will probably take a serious incident to get things changed with disney, so I'll be renting cars for the most part while staying onsite. The busses are ok to use from time to time, but I can't handle the stuffing guests in busses with a shoe horn every time I go to and from parks on vacation. Some people say driving around disney stresses them out.....the bus situations (for the most part) stress me out.

So again Cranbiz, I'll apologize once again, as I never meant for my comments to be directed towards you or any other driver personally. I was referring to the one bus driver I mentioned in my original post. I did say you all do the best with what disney provides.

I'm out of this thread, being that my statements are being characterized as "inappropriate" despite my explanation in a later post.......I had been referring to that one bus driver I encountered on Sat, 2/24, who stated it was safer to let little kids have their own seat, and then on the other hand, he allowed families with other little kids to stand or lay on the floor & packed his bus full to the gills. This particular bus driver, literally kept announcing, "Move all the way to the back". Stuffing, and stuffing as many as he could in ???? My back was pushed up against the back door---that is "safe" ? My handbag actually got stuck in the back door when they opened because I could not move back from the doors when they opened. I had to pull and pull on my handbag to free it for several seconds.
I felt his statement of "safe" (for the small kids) just didn't make sense in that particular situation. His actions were in direct opposition of his term "safe"
Somehow it got twisted into an "inappropriate" comment when I stated my personal experience with that one bus driver and you took it personally cranbiz. Sorry for that. I will take my issues/complaints of safety directly to disney.

 

[bicker]

Well I did apologize and explain that I didn't mean it as cranbiz took it. What else should I do ?

Your explanation was sufficient.

I'm out of this thread, being that my statements are being characterized as "inappropriate" despite my explanation in a later post.......

Your original comment was in post #19. cranbiz highlighted how it was offensive in post #23, and his comment rang true to me. (Your comment read the same way to me as it did to him.) I replied to his comment in post #23 -- his comment about wait times -- at the time I read it and as a concluding remark supported his contention regarding the comment he took offense to, since I agreed with him about it. Your explanation wasn't until post #25. I read your explanation after I posted my reply. I suppose I could have revised my earlier reply, but by the same token you could have revised your original message, putting your explanation right in where the comments that cranbiz took offense were. Neither of us went back and revised our previous messages, and that's natural -- discussion threads tend to be linear. So I wouldn't worry about messages getting crossed like this. It happens all the time.

 

[Donnask8pro]

This is why I rent a car. I have a 12 yr old DS in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy. I am able to board before others but I dont want to hear back lash from others so I rent. I have heard many comments from people about boarding while they have been waiting.

 

[cranbiz]

So again Cranbiz, I'll apologize once again, as I never meant for my comments to be directed towards you or any other driver personally. I was referring to the one bus driver I mentioned in my original post. I did say you all do the best with what disney provides.

There is no need to apopogize again, as Bicker stated your explanation in post #25 is good enough for me. Also please don't leave this thread. I asked what you would do for some fresh ideas not to put you on the defensive.

Pulling busses from other parks may or may not help. As I stated before, the weekend in question had just about 100 busses assigned to the Magic Kingdom. That roughly translates to 25 awaiting to be assigned a loadzone or loading, 25 travelling to a resort, 25 at the resorts and 25 returning to the Magic Kingdom. Now there are 15 active loadzones (for the 15 resorts serviced by bus) POP is regularly doubled and so is POR (thru loadzone 4). Thats 17 busses being able to load and at closing time there was 100% availability. 8 busses would be available for immediate dispatch once a loadzone was open. In actuallity it was load and go as busses were backed up onto World Drive (there is just no place to put more).

The busses are loaded to capacity to address the #1 complaint from guests, wait time. If more guests felt the way you do (and that's not to mean that you don't have a valid concern) then that might change the way that busses are loaded.

You are perfectly within your right to write Disney with your concerns (and you should) and so should other guests. But just saying to throw more busses at the problem is not going to fix it (beause it won't). Stating that you and others would be willing to trade longer waits for higher safety/fewer guests on a bus could go a long way to make every guest who rides a bus safer.

 

[MiaSRN62]

This is why I rent a car. I have a 12 yr old DS in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy. I am able to board before others but I dont want to hear back lash from others so I rent. I have heard many comments from people about boarding while they have been waiting.

Donna,
I came back just to address your post. Please do not think I had issues with situations like yours. I do not. I totally understand and would never complain about a wheelchair being loaded first. My only concern was what I addressed in my first post with that one bus driver. I'm not going to repeat the issue because you can just go back and read it to see what I was specifically referring to. Because I know certain other statments of mine were taken not the way I meant them, I didn't want you to think I had any issues with special needs guests because I never have and never will. You may not have been referring to me, but just wanted to make myself clear. Thanks.

 

[goofy4tink]

This is why I rent a car. I have a 12 yr old DS in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy. I am able to board before others but I dont want to hear back lash from others so I rent. I have heard many comments from people about boarding while they have been waiting.

Man, I'm so sorry you have to hear stuff like that!!! You will never hear it from me or from my dd. One time we did overhear some grumbling about having to wait while a young girl was preboarded. I turned to my dd and said in a voice loud enough to carry to the jerks (oops, did I say that??!!) that had made the comment..."Boy Katie...there but for the grace of God go I!! I'm so glad you are able to stand and wait in a line!!" I know, I know..it's an overused sentiment, but really..it just frosted me to hear such ignorance and bias.

 

[SueM in MN]

Man, I'm so sorry you have to hear stuff like that!!! You will never hear it from me or from my dd. One time we did overhear some grumbling about having to wait while a young girl was preboarded. I turned to my dd and said in a voice loud enough to carry to the jerks (oops, did I say that??!!) that had made the comment..."Boy Katie...there but for the grace of God go I!! I'm so glad you are able to stand and wait in a line!!" I know, I know..it's an overused sentiment, but really..it just frosted me to hear such ignorance and bias.

Thank you.
We have heard our share of the 'bad' kinds of comments too:
"Those people shouldn't be allowed to ride the bus. They take up too many seats."
"It's not fair they get to get on first. We're all tired too."

Etc, etc.

Hugs to Donnask8pro