Just as I signed out on my homepage - this was on it:
Names Holden Snyder. Mrs. Walshs stable boy.
Holden to Lily when the couple first met on World Turns
Long before Jack and Carly and long after Jeff and Penny spun As The World Turnss orbit, Holden and Lily catapulted the CBS sudser on to the cover of countless magazines and to the top of the ratings as its signature super-couple.
Since World Turns refused to reunite the incomparable Martha Byrne the real Lily Walsh Snyder with the insanely handsome and talented Jon Hensley for the 54-year-old soaps final farewell, TVGuide.ca thought wed show executive producer Christopher Goutman how easy it could be done and give fans the proper closure they need as Oakdale fades off into the sunset this Friday.
Join TVGuide.ca in a dreamy threesome with Hensley and Byrne as they stroll down memory lane one last time to say a proper goodbye to one of the most iconic love stories on the daytime dial, a tribute to two-ply white underwear, Douglas Marlands stories, Hensleys fledging music career, and whether or not Byrne regrets leaving the serial that made her a daytime star.
TVGuide.ca: Its the final week of World Turns. How are you feeling? Are you watching the show every day?
Jon Hensley: Im watching the last week. I wasnt really on prior to that because they had some other stories that they were wrapping up. Im pretty heavy in the past 10 days, so Ill probably check that out. And thats it thats all she wrote.
Martha Byrne: No, Im not going to watch. Ive seen some of the previews and I think, I dont want to go there. Im choosing to separate myself from it. Its like choosing to be sad and uncomfortable. I prefer not to feel like that. I feel like its better to put [the experience] to bed instead of remembering what I may see in the final shows. Maybe down the road, Ill watch it on
YouTube when some time has passed.
TVG: Im going to try to watch. Like Guiding Light, the show died for me a long time ago. Its sort of like taking a patient off of life support because for me its been brain-dead for a while. Jon, some cast members said they were going to get together to watch the final show are you a part of that?
JH: I dont know anything about that! No one invited me! Is there something I need to know [laughs]? Whats going on?
MB: [Laughs] Someone needs to text Jon!
JH: No, seriously we all had a party during our last day of shooting at the studio. The lead-up to the final show was pretty tough for everyone, but on the final day, it was more of a celebration. We had a night out with the cast and crew. I think everybody, like Martha, just wants to move on. A party will just rehash everything and I dont think a lot of people want to go there at this point.
TVG: Jon, did you find the long lead time a positive or negative?
JH: It was good. We had six to eight months to adjust to the news. Three months would have been fine for some people, but the extra time allowed us to figure out what we were going to do next.
TVG: Would you agree that Lily and Holden are World Turnss definitive super-couple? Carly and Jack could arguably dispute that statement, but I think there wouldnt be a CarJack without Lilden.
JH: I think so. I think we laid out the groundwork. I dont think there would have been a Lily and Damian if it werent for us. Holden and Lily paved the way for a lot of what has happened on our show over the years.
MB: The big joke on our set was when Michael Park would say, One day, Carly and Jack will be the next Holden and Lily! We can only dream to be Oakdales iconic couple. During the old days, the super-couple was very powerful in daytime. Nowadays, there is no time left to build that kind of connection like in the old days. [Sighs] Again, there is that phrase the old days. We were organic, as were Carly and Jack. Luckily, for Carly and Jack, the various writing teams kept cultivating them. For Jon and I, weve had to endure a lot of ups and downs with writing teams [since our glory days]. Luckily for us, we were given a solid foundation [by former head writer, the late, great Douglas Marland], which allowed us to survive through the tough times.
JH: Ive never had a connection with anyone like I have with Martha. It was there from day one.
MB: I feel the same way.
JH: It was fantastic for many, many years. But when the writing started to wane, we still had it but it wasnt the same kind of spark because the writing didnt allow us to go there. For Marthas last five to seven years, our chemistry was still there but it wasnt in the material. It was unfortunate but that often happens in daytime.
TVG: Jon, are you happy that Holden and Lily didnt reunite in a big splashy wedding? I dont think it would have resonated without Martha Byrne and perhaps the writers knew that. Too bad because had Martha come back, I guarantee you World Turns would have received myriad of press coverage and magazine covers. Even the current Lily, Noelle Beck, realized that.
JH: I liked the way its being left open. It was the right choice. There was so much damage in their relationship that a happy ending [wouldve felt contrived] and diminished their history.
MB: Well, you always hear rumours and I hear way too many, more than I ever want to hear and at one point, I heard there would be a Holden and Lily wedding. That was around the time the show was cancelled. For a lot of reasons, Im happy Holden and Lilys future is left open. Jon and I think we have some life left in us and there is some story left to tell there. Concerning Holden and Lilys relationship, they never really got it right for whatever reason. Yes, they had moments of greatness before someone would come along to break them up or someone would lose their memory, but these roadblocks never allowed them to get it right. Maybe there is something very symbolic about that. Even after all these years, Holden and Lily [just cant be happy] for whatever reason. Of course, there are behind-the-scenes and on-camera reasons, but to answer your question, Im glad Holden and Lily didnt have a happily-ever-after ending.
TVG: What intrigued and frustrated me most about Holden and Lily, much like Guiding Lights Reva and Josh, was that they were both stubborn when it came to their love. That dynamic was evident from the contentious moment they met. It was sexy, but ultimately, I think it led to their unhappiness. They cant live with each other, but they also cant live without each other. They were addicted to being right all the time despite the fallout. Do you guys have a favourite storyline?
JH: [Laughs and struggles with the answer] I dont know
TVG: I thought you really upped your game as an actor with Holdens memory loss.
JH: That kind of goes down
[continues to struggle with the answer]
MB:[Laughs]
JH: Yeah, I mean that storyline did allow me to do a lot with Holden that I had never done before. Because I didnt share any chemistry with that new Lily [Heather Rattray], Holden was propelled in many different character directions. It allowed me to leave the Holden and Lily orbit for a while, which was a nice change of pace for me as an actor. You should ask Martha that question because she has a better memory than me! When I finish a story, its done and then its out the window.
TVG: Well, my favourite Holden storyline is whenever he was shirtless. Emmy-worthy stuff!
MB: Me, too!
JH: Actually, my all-time favourite scene and Martha can attest to this is when I was in double-stitch underwear screaming at the lightning.
MB: Now, Jon, we need to be more specific than that!
JH: [grimaces] Do we have to be more specific than that?
MB: Oh, yes we do, Jon! Because youre crossing two big moments together and I have to separate the two. While you screamed at the lightning, you were in Daisy Duke shorts and double-stitch undies as you walked into the Snyder Pond.
TVG: [Joking] Was the water in the pond really cold that day?
MB: Oh, I didnt care [laughs]! Not for me. I was white as a ghost way before spray-tanning or any kind of support bra but it was all about the moment back then. That whole pond moment was a great experience, especially in the beginning when we went on location to Connecticut. Doug was there. It was pretty intense stuff.
JH: Doug wrote that whole storyline based on Wuthering Heights. Back then, I wasnt so familiar with the movie or the book. I guess it was years later when I finally read the book and watched the movie. Had I only had the knowledge prior to acting out the storyline, I think it would have turned out a lot better.
MB: Do you think Heathcliff was in his tightie whites? I dont think so
[Laughs] We were the updated version of Wuthering Heights. Doug really wrote the emotion for us, which was inspired by the book.
JH: A lot of that emotion was innately inside of us, too.
TVG: Martha, Im assuming one of your favourite storylines had to be the Rose/Lily plot?
MB: I really loved working opposite Jon as Rose a lot.
TVG: One thing I really need to commend you guys on was the fact that Martha impressively managed to share unique chemistry with Jon both as Lily and Rose. Its very rare when an actor playing a dual role can do that.
JH: Very much so!
MB: Thank you. We actually had a lot of inside jokes about that but we cant print those here. I would say you would get more of Martha and Jons real-life relationship in Rose and Holden. I dont want to speak for Jon
JH: No, youre right. More of our real-life personalities came out through Rose and Holden.
MB: If you ever want to key in to what were really about you can see it through Rose and Holden. We could get away with a lot more through that coupling as opposed to Holden and Lily. We improvised a lot more. I liked that. We definitely stirred it up by bringing in a new character being played by the same actress. So, of course, we had to create different chemistry. I think thats why it worked so well. We were very funny and light back then. After Holden and Rose slept together for the first time as she was impersonating Lily, Jons line was, Wow you never did that before!
TVG: God bless, Hogan Sheffer! When you were first paired together in 1986, was it as magical as it appeared to be onscreen? I find as World Turns inches closer to the soap heavens that Im re-watching old World Turns YouTube clips instead of the new shows. The writing and the performances were golden back then.
MB: It went in different phases. When we first started, every day was an adventure. The pool of talent that we had back then was amazing. If those walls could talk! Usually, the Snyder canvas taped at the end of the day, and wed amuse ourselves by singing and being silly. Many friendships and relationships were built back then. For me, its more moments that I remember. For example, there was a scene where Holden had to ask Dr. John Dixon for bus money! To this day, Larry Bryggman will ask Jon for his two bucks back!
JH: For the past 25 years, its been a running joke between Larry and I!
TVG: Too bad for inflation! What was your least favourite storyline, Jon?
JH: Its more of my least favourite concept and not a storyline I hated that whole thing about Lily and Holden being distant cousins. For a long time, it kind of ruined everything. I wish they hadnt done it. I dont know if there was a way around it
but maybe it was done purposely to keep us apart. I thought it was unnecessary and to this day, people still ask me, Arent you guys cousins?
TVG: Didnt Douglas always know that Iva was adopted?
JH: We didnt know that Iva was adopted until two years later. They took the liberty to change that down the road.
MB: That wasnt the initial plan which is why they had to fix it so Holden and Lily could be together. They definitely adjusted that. Iva led her whole life thinking she slept with her cousin, Josh. That was addressed in the story as we went forward. If not, we wouldnt be talking right now Holden and Lily would have been over. Or at least, I hope they wouldnt be romantically involved if they were related!
TVG: Martha, your least fave storyline? You must have a lot!
MB: I didnt like it when Lily started getting really dumb. You know, when she was addicted to painkillers and signing over her mothers company I had a problem with that. I didnt mind the weight storyline
as long as the story was about character, I had no problem. Probably my least favourite storyline was when Lily couldnt accept Luke as a gay man. I always had an issue with that story point. Not being able to accept Luke as gay was very, very difficult for me especially having to make it work on my part and as a mother in general. Lily would never have had a problem with Lukes homosexuality. Yes, Damian, of course, but not Lily. Maybe Holden a little bit. But thats part of your job as an actor trying to make these stories work. And sometimes it doesnt. The fans still remember those failures, and continue to bring them up. Lets face it our fans know our characters as well as we do. I always try to get it out there that we know the problems with our characters and stories, but we dont write the show. We can only adjust so much for it to be palatable in those moments.
TVG: Im sure Douglas rolled over in his grave when Lily got all homophobic on Lukes ***. But in real life, Ive encountered in many instances with friends and myself that the parent you think will be accepting isnt, and vice versa. However, I think Damian having issues was enough for story conflict. I always thought Lily was a *** hag!
JH: As was Holden!
MB: Dont forget Holden!
TVG: Oh, its impossible to forget the most insanely handsome man in the world. Preparing for this interview, I realized that Martha had chemistry with myriad of leading men such as Brian Bloom, Paolo Seganti and Thomas Gibson but Jon didnt have that kind of luck with other leading women. Though I liked your chemistry with Maura West, the writers dropped that story rather quickly. But next to Martha, I think the actor you shared the most chemistry with Jon was Van Hansis.
JH: Yes! Initially, Kim Zimmers son, Jake Weary, was playing that character but when he got wind of the fact that they were going to make Luke gay, he quit. Everyone was a little worried where they were going with this character and I admit, I had my own concerns. But when they cast Van, he just got it right from the start. I think it was one of our shows better moves despite [everyones initial trepidation].
MB: The other thing is that Jake was very young. Jake was 14 or 15. At the time, Zimmer was like, Look, its a great story, but my sons only a young teen. In the end, it all worked out because Luke had to be aged anyway as the writers were determined to tell a certain grown-up story. It worked out in many ways. It was one of those vital recasts that really worked. Obviously, Vans very talented, too.
JH: And [the writers] never ran out of story for Van. There was so much story to tell with Luke. It was [an endless well]. And they topped it off perfectly with this Reid character. I thought everything with the Reid character was perfect and wonderful.
TVG: Eric Sheffer Stevens is such a great actor.
JH: Eric is really, really great! He really brought a lot to that character. It was a nice way to end that relationship with the whole Noah thing. Even though Im not sure if Nuke end up together.
TVG: They dont. Are you disappointed Holden and Luke didnt have more scenes this past year? I would think since they are both at crossroads in their lives romantically that they would come together for the first time as not only father and son, but also friends.
JH: We didnt have a lot of scenes youre right. We had a couple at the Snyder pond where he says goodbye to Reid. Most of my stuff was with Noelle towards the end. I have to say, during the last couple of days, they really hit a home run with the material they gave me. It was stuff that I really connected with on a very deep level because it dealt with Holdens journey from his first two years on the show. [His voice cracking a bit] I was channeling Martha during those scenes, which just made it that much more intense. I was very happy with the final result.
TVG: I cant wait to see those scenes. I know Lesli Kay is coming back this week as Molly. Its funny I remember the Molly/Holden/Lily triangle vividly because I was on the World Turns set a lot during that time when I covered the show for Soap Opera Update. I was even there for Lily and Holdens big fat wedding literally because Martha was pregnant! Lesli and Jon never had any chemistry back then, but wow what a difference 15 years makes! This time around, Molly and Holden were on fire. I know you were rooting for them, right? I would have written them off into the sunset together.
JH: Yes, she is back this week. As for Molly and Holden, I spoke to Goutman about that and he was absolutely torn about it. He didnt quite know what to do. It was definitely an option for him. [Sighs] He tried to
but it didnt make sense that they would run off together in the end. However, I thought it would be a nice twist for them because people wouldnt expect it. But Goutman chose not to though the whole experience with Lesli was great. I agree we did have an interesting chemistry that we didnt have the first time. I dont know why or where it came from, but it was fun working with Lesli.
TVG: Thats why executive producers shouldnt write!
JH: Right!
TVG: Are you going to submit yourself for Emmy consideration next year? You totally deserve to have an Emmy on your mantle.
JH: I resisted that for the last four to five years because I never felt like I had the material. They would give me a weeks worth of stuff but it was never enough it was not Emmy-worthy.
TVG: You and Martha really are the younger version of Kim Zimmer and Robert Newman. Your kind of acting, Jon, doesnt win Emmys because its so subtle and realistic.
JH: I see these reels of people winning and it is stuff that is deeply emotional and over the top. I simply dont get material like that. When I do get it, I underplay it more times than not.
TVG: A few times, I thought you would have been better served and represented in the supporting category than lead. Simply because your best performances were supporting Van or Martha. And supporting is much harder work than being a lead, in my opinion.
JH: I actually tried to do that one year but they wouldnt allow it. We have so many supporting actors on our show that they said, No, you cant do that. You need to be lead. So, I said, well, Im not going anywhere then so there!
TVG: Well, someone who has no problem winning Emmys is Martha. Where do you keep your two Emmys?
JH: Somewhere on a shelf
I moved them around
way out of reach from my children.
TVG: [Joking] Around your neck when youre sweeping the porch?!
MB: [Laughs] Yeah, right!
TVG: Jon, you got your daytime debut on One Life To Live as a character named Brody.
JH: Wow thats amazing that you know that! Thank you, [former One Life executive producer] Paul Rauch for casting me in that role, which eventually led to me being cast as Holden on World Turns.
TVG: I think youd make a perfect Kevin Buchanan on One Life and sizzle opposite Gina Tognoni, another two-time Emmy winner. But I read that youre focusing on your music career. However, you also told me on the Emmy red carpet this summer that you wouldnt rule out another soap. My opinion? I think you need to go after primetime TV and the big screen. What are your plans? I read that youre working on a record, right?
JH: I am working on a record
for quite a long time now. I put it on the back burner because there was so much uncertainty in our lives. Now that I have time to finish it, Ive been working on it. I think itll be ready by next spring. Where it will go, I dont know, but its something Ive been wanting to do from my heart. If I dont do it, I will deeply regret it.
MB: Just so you know, Jon wrote a beautiful song for Benjamin Hendricksons memorial service. It was really beautiful. When something constant [like World Turns] goes away, you find new avenues within yourself that you let slip away because of myriad reasons. Im very happy Jon is working on his music.
TVG: Its important to reinvent yourself as an artist. Sometimes soap actors forget to do that because they are stuck playing the same part for decades.
MB: What is so wonderful about daytime actors is that we have so much going in our lives. You see that with Guiding Light and World Turns going off the air. I think were going to see these actors emerge now as different artists in different titles. Yes, out of necessity, but this is kind of reinforcing us to reexamine ourselves outside these personas. Jon will always be Holden, and Ill always be Lily, and thats a wonderful, wonderful thing but there is a [life after soaps]. World Turns being cancelled is going to make their actors ask, Who are you? without that title. I think its great. From my perspective, I cant tell you how freeing it was to rediscover myself and move on by doing new creative things.
JH: I think thats why my wife [Kelley Menighan Hensley, who plays Emily] and I decided to move out to California because there is much more opportunity out there. I think Kell and I have a few good years left, and I just wanted to take advantage of it. A lot of people thought we were crazy for packing up the house, the kids, and moving out west, but I think its a good decision. Im very excited. Were leaving in two weeks. Yes, its very chaotic here right now, but once we get out there, were going to start all over and theres something very exciting about that.
MB: Change is very healthy and its very important. Mostly within yourself
JH: Yeah!
TVG: Jon, what kind of music are you producing?
JH: Its a pop-rock record. Its got a John Mayer vibe but a little more uptempo than John.
TVG: I cant wait to see you in leather pants rocking out on stage!
MB: Oh, Ive seen that!
JH: Hey, you never know I havent made that decision yet.
MB: You have to break out that fringe jacket, tight jeans, and the pocket ripped off the back
JH: Shes referencing my Bon Jovi jacket from the 1980s, which I still have. You never know, Marthie
TVG: Whats the title of the album, Jon?
JH: I dont have one yet. I have 16 original songs and I have to cut it down to 12 or 13. What do you think, Marthie?
MB: That sounds good, Jon. Its always good to save a few extra ones for later.
JH: Yeah, Im going to let my good friends like Martha help me choose which songs to pick. Ive heard my songs too much that I cant make an [objective] decision at this point. Ill leave it to my friends and my family.
TVG: Martha and I are in complete agreement that you are the most perfect man alive. Was there a moment when you, Martha, realized that Jon was as beautiful inside as he was outside especially as an actor?
JH: Let me get her off the hook here for a moment. I definitely didnt have the acting chops when she picked me to play Holden. She is responsible for my career. She chose me in the auditions.
MB: For someone who can remember exactly what Jon was wearing when he walked into the room a blue striped shirt and it was his birthday, by the way, let me tell you that I didnt remember anyone else, lets put it that way. Back in those days, people actually asked you for your opinion! All I said was, Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon! There was no question about it. I was like a kid in a candy store. And I was 15! It was instant for me I knew Jon had something special. And Doug and [former executive producer Robert] Calhoun agreed. [Moreover], I think that they thought, If this 15-year-old girl is reacting this way, then the rest of America will as well. It wasnt even about whether he could act or not, we just had chemistry immediately. Everything resonated within himself
JH: I was still growing as an actor back then. But I did find out years later that Calhoun was going to cast me right from the moment I walked in the door.
MB: How could he not? I cant remember anyone else and Ive auditioned about 1000 actors in my lifetime.
TVG: How old were you when you booked World Turns, Jon?
JH: I was 19.
TVG: Yowza. I actually began watching World Turns because of your first Soap Opera Digest cover. I remember thinking, Wow, what is this beautiful man doing with this little girl? Immediately, I said, I need to check out this show! It was extremely provocative and risqué especially for the 80s! What was it like being romantically paired with a 15-year-old girl on a soap opera, Jon? Were you nervous?
JH: It was something I wasnt prepared for but I just went with it. I remember saying to Calhoun, Im a little uncomfortable with it, but he said, Just do it.
MB: Talk about torture!
TVG: Why did you leave World Turns, Jon? I know you went to the prestigious Shakespeare Academy of Music, Drama and Art to study.
JH: I left World Turns and went to London, because it was something I always wanted to do. After three years on the show, I had the money to try to become better at what I loved doing
it was not the experience I anticipated, but looking back, Im glad I did it! Liz Hubbard was so happy for me because she studied at Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and thought I was making a great career choice. I ended up staying with a friend of hers and rented an extra room from them the whole time I was there.
TVG: When did you know you wanted to be an actor, Jon?
JH: In high school but I was clueless on how to go about it! When I got to New York University, where I was studying journalism, all I did my first year was blow off classes because all I wanted to do was learn everything about the business and figure out how I could get into it. Strangely enough, I met my first manager at a nightclub, and she helped me get an agent and eventually I landed the soap gig. I was her first client. Although I am no longer with her, we spoke recently and today she represents Kevin Spacey along with a few others.
TVG: When you look in the mirror, Jon, who do you see? Are your looks a blessing or a curse? And how do you stay in shape at 45?
JH: When I look in the mirror I see a guy who was blessed with many things, but as far as the good looks, I have always known that it will only get you so far! And more times than not, it actually has worked against me! Its defintely not a curse, but I have always had to work very hard at what I do, especially when it comes to being taken seriously! There is a song that John Lennon wrote to Paul McCartney and he makes a reference about being a just pretty face! The face may get you in the door, but you still have to deliver the goods. I have always known this.
As far as staying fit, its getting tougher. I am about 15 pounds overweight right now. I just bought this P90X program and I am taking it to L.A. with me! The grand plan is to get back to my fighting weight, and be totally ripped by Christmas! Ill let you know how it plays out!
TVG: Why did you return to World Turns, Jon? I thought you returned too soon. You could have given Brad Pitt a run for his money.
JH: I was definitely done, but then Kelley and I got married. I went out to the west coast and she was doing World Turns. I just thought, I really should be with my wife. I was offered a gig on All My Children opposite Marcy Walker [as the new Jake Martin], but she called Laurence Caso and said, Listen, Jon has been offered a role on All My Kids. If you want him back, hed prefer to be here. So I made the decision to return. It wasnt about having a movie career. It was about having a family and being in one place. Thats the only way the marriage was going to work.
MB: Thank god he did! You know that I set them up, right?
TVG: Yep, you pimp!
MB: I made that phone call to make sure they met up in California when Kelley was going out there. They worked together before but they werent hooking up back then. Next thing you know
theyre getting married!
TVG: And now youve been married for 14 years. So are you ruling out soaps, Jon?
JH: Im not ruling anything out. It wouldnt be my first choice. Id like to definitely give it some more time. To spend another three years in daytime, well, itd probably be over for me. It depends on what the situation is and whom Id be working with.
TVG: And Kelley is still pursuing acting, right?
JH: Oh, yeah! Shes still enjoys the daytime thing. She would definitely do something if an offer came up.
TVG: Martha, do you regret leaving World Turns knowing that the show was cancelled? Had you known, would you have stuck it out?
MB: Had I known? I dont regret leaving. It was definitely the right choice for me. Its really hard to say because I didnt know there were only two years left. You cant go back
no, I dont. It was the right decision. I dont regret the decision.
TVG: Do you guys think if Martha was still playing Lily that Lilden wouldve ended up together? Would there have been a different outcome? I hate to say it but Jon, you and Noelle have no chemistry. Im saying that as a huge fan of Noelles loved her on Loving, Cashmere Mafia and Sex and the City, but you guys fizzled in the chemistry department, in my opinion.
JH: Its hard to say, Nelson. Hard to say.
MB: Its really hard to say.
JH: There was a lot going on there that was out of our control. It had nothing to do with Noelle and I. I wouldve preferred it that Martha and I were onscreen at the end, [but I cant say what would have happened].
TVG: Weve heard a lot about Marthas relationship with her mentor, Doug Marland, but what was your relationship with him like, Jon?
JH: I think my character was who Doug was as a kid so he had this special interest in me as a person. He always made sure I was growing as a person and made sure I was happy. We would have dinner once a month and go to the theatre. He was more of a father figure for me than anything else. He was very caring and loving. It was a very special relationship. I never expected to have experienced something like that with a head writer. I mean, when you go out with your head writer, youre terrified because you dont know what to expect.
MB: The writers were usually scared of us. When they saw you come in their direction, theyd go in the other direction. Doug was the direct opposite he wanted the conversation, he wanted direct contact, and the special relationship. I think it helped him write.
JH: Knowing where you were in your life really helped him write. He was very brilliant that way. He really took what you told him and incorporated that into the story. He did that for a lot of people.
MB: Yep!
TVG: Ive heard that Irna Phillips and Bill Bell did that a lot. Were you guys soap fans before World Turns?
MB: I watched GH. Thats when I fell in love with Kin Shriner [who is now starring on Byrnes web soap, Gotham, and previously made a successful guest stint on World Turns]. So it was an honour to be on GH last year. Its interesting because Doug wrote for GH.
JH: Yeah I jumped on the whole General Hospital bandwagon at the time, too, the whole Luke and Laura thing. When I was in high school it was really popular. I kind of checked it out now and then. I never thought Id be on one two years later. I did follow them for a bit there.
TVG: Thank God for soaps because Jon, you dated half the soap population for a time there before Kelley made you an honest man!
MB: That is true! I can attest to that, by the way. I witnessed all of that! If you want a list, I can email it to you! Its a little long
TVG: Melissa Reeves, Renee Props, Hunter Tylo
JH: [Laughs] What can I say? I fell in love every other week!
TVG: Just like Holden, youre a romantic at heart, Jon. What would Doug be thinking this week if he was still alive? Im sure you guys are thinking about him more than usual this week.
MB: Hed probably be happy that they didnt put Holden and Lily back together. He would have wanted to tell that story
he had such a personal investment in the characters. He also wouldve been heartbroken about the shows cancellation. [Moreover], I dont think a lot of things wouldve have happened, including our cancellation, would he still be alive today. It took a long time until [ex-head writer] Hogan Sheffer showed up before we stopped treading water after Dougs death. It was so apparent that we really couldnt survive without Doug. He was the only one who could juggle and spin the plates on our show. You know, the Bill Bells of the world, there are so few of those talents. But Hogan did give our show new life. I think Hogan and Doug wouldve been best friends. Although they are so different on so many levels, they are equally passionate about the genre. I think Doug would be very hurt and very sad about what has happened to World Turns and the state of where things are. I do believe had he lived that we would not have been cancelled. We wouldnt be having this conversation right now, Nelson. Its like what Lauralee Bell said in your interview last week, which was so beautiful, her father wouldve evolved with the times, and he would have made adjustments to keep the characters true to who they are. Bill was a very progressive thinker as was Douglas. I know they were the masters at what they did. They would have been teaching us how to continue this genre.
JH: Yes! I think he would have been one of the few guys
listen, we know that soaps are a dying art form because its not evolved!
TVG: Bingo! Thats the only reason why this genre is dying.
JH: Im wondering if Doug was around if he could have figured out a way to have changed the format or if he could have made it more present with the times.
TVG: I think he would have. He already was doing it with daytimes first gay male character and the AIDS storyline when it was very taboo. God, he would have loved to tell the Luke storyline.
MB: Yep!
TVG: He wouldve been in a lot of fights with CBS and Barbara Bloom!
JH: [Laughs] Thats for sure!
MB: Probably, but he would win. And Ill tell you why he would win because the ratings would be high and hed be successful. This business all comes down to one thing and its money. And if he made CBS money, they would listen to him. Thats who holds the key. He would have told stories that wouldve brought viewership and adjusted accordingly. Listen, when we started, Jon and I only worked one or two days a week because the cast was much smaller and more intimate for story sake. I think he would have gone back to that. He wrote good story, and good story will bring in viewers. He would have evolved and he wouldnt be in this predicament that everyone finds himself or herself in.
TVG: Looking back, isnt it so sad that we felt like we were the ugly stepchildren of show business? When in fact we were riding the golden era. Huge ratings, big advertising, loads of extras, location shoots, sets, star salaries, expensive costumes and high circulation. I wish we had known back then how lucky we were
MB: Well, somebody did! There are certain people who knew but we were always told we had no money. The party line was, We have no money. Knowing what I know now, and what has gone on, and where the money goes and how it was spent, has changed so dramatically over the decades.
TVG: Its a feminist issue the networks stole from the day part to feed the primetime schedule. Its disgusting and now that daytime is in trouble, wheres our life vest? Finally, there is a lot of unfinished business between you guys do you want to act together again? Gotham? Another soap?MB: Listen, I would love to work with Jon again. As a producer, I see the value in our reunion. As a friend, I see the joy in us working together [as a team]. If hes open to that
and whatever happens with Gotham and if we go to TV, I would hope he would come on and I promise to make it a really fun character. And intertwine our characters in an unique way and I think it would be cool to make Michael Park that third party. I feel like we have something of value for someone. Like you said, we have unfinished business. You know when Holden and Lily made love in the bell tower when I came back with the whole Damian triangle, the episode only aired in parts of the States. The fans went so wild and reacted so violently that they couldnt get to see it that for the first time ever in soap opera history they re-ran the episode that already ran in the United States not at two in the morning, but two in the afternoon in the actual timeslot. Laurence Caso said to all of us, What do we do? So he made a call to re-run it and said, Well deal with the advertisers later. Im sure it cost them money, but it didnt matter what was important was to give the fans what they wanted to see. That overrode any dollar signs. But the fans got their story. Id like to continue that.
TVG: And Jon, would you like to work with this diva again?
JH: Absolutely! If something came up again, yes, in a heartbeat! I wouldnt know if anyone out there would be paying us to appear in another show
I dont know if thats in the cards for us, but if someone made that opportunity available to me, there wouldnt be a second thought. Id be there as long as I knew Martha would be on the other side.
TVG: And so will we.
I'm soon to be 61 - and have watched this since I was 13, so I think I'm going to splurge on the magazine..
Didn't get a chance to flip through it much because I was running for a train.
He didn't stick around long.
