Offer on a house, would you be offened...

[disneybound31]

Let us know what u end up offering and if it works out!

 

[QVCshopper]

This is against conventional real estate wisdom, but in this economy, how much is that school district really worth in hard cash? If the only reason you want to move there is for the schools, do the math and look at what you would pay over time for comparable-quality private school, plus your tax obligation.

In our case we realized that moving from our paid-for home in a bad district (but a GREAT neighborhood) would probably not be worth it. Private school will cost us approximately $100K for both kids to get all the way through. The taxes are about $2K, so the obligation would be about $128K. The good district would cost us around $4K in taxes each year, so the difference is approximately $72K that we would save by moving and being able to use public school. Upon consideration, we just couldn't see taking on nearly $300K in debt in order to save $72K.

Thanks for your advice, but I think it's in our best interest to move. Our taxes are actually higher than the other areas we are looking at; when I factor in the cost of private school, we will probably come out ahead. We've really thought this over; now we just need to wait until the right house comes up.

 

[ORDisneyfans]

I haven't read all the posts, however we buy and sell a lot of real estate, I highly recommend zillow.com. It is a great way to check out values, current listings, what the house last sold for, what it was last listed for etc. We also do first trust deed notes and I really rely on zillow for accurate info. I would never just believe a realtor or mortgage brokers word.

 

[arminnie]

This is against conventional real estate wisdom, but in this economy, how much is that school district really worth in hard cash?

It can be HUGE in some areas. In the Dallas area there are two small towns near downtown dallas that are surrounded by Dallas - Highland Park and University Park. Also know as the Park Cities. They have one school system for the Park cities. It is excellent A+++++. Truly one of the best in the nation.

I owned a small home in the last block of University Park. Just a few yards away in the next block the homes were in the Dallas school district. The two blocks looked identical in terms of the types of homes. But the ones in the Dallas school district were worth SO much less than the ones in the Highland Park school district. MAJOR difference.

And it's just not a question of paying tuition for private. Private means a long commute and the other students don't live near you. Totally different experience. You literally can't buy the same type of experience elsewhere. May not be worth it to you but there are plenty of those who do find it worthwhile.

I didn't have kids so I didn't need the school district. But the general appreciation and ability to sell was so worth it to be in the right school district.

 

[Kellydelly]

Our house was listed at 148,000 and we offered 135,000 and the sellers didn't even counter offer . This was back in 97 when it was not a buyer's market. The house had been on the market for about 6 months.

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

If the house has been on the market for a long time, you will not be low-balling the house owner by bidding even $30K under listed value.

They can always come back with a counter-offer.

 

[java]

I was always told 10% below list was a good first offer.

 

[NotUrsula]

It can be HUGE in some areas. In the Dallas area there are two small towns near downtown dallas that are surrounded by Dallas - Highland Park and University Park. Also know as the Park Cities. They have one school system for the Park cities. It is excellent A+++++. Truly one of the best in the nation.

I owned a small home in the last block of University Park. Just a few yards away in the next block the homes were in the Dallas school district. The two blocks looked identical in terms of the types of homes. But the ones in the Dallas school district were worth SO much less than the ones in the Highland Park school district. MAJOR difference.

And it's just not a question of paying tuition for private. Private means a long commute and the other students don't live near you. Totally different experience. You literally can't buy the same type of experience elsewhere. May not be worth it to you but there are plenty of those who do find it worthwhile.

I didn't have kids so I didn't need the school district. But the general appreciation and ability to sell was so worth it to be in the right school district.

Not always. If you are in a good neighborhood in a bad district, the odds are that the other kids in the neighborhood attend private school, too, and often the same one. In our case the private elementary school we chose is top-notch and less than 1/2 mile away -- DS walks. Kids in this city routinely go to competitive-admissions high schools, so they are all pretty used to carpooling around town. DS happened to choose the closest one to our home, and he'll be commuting by bike starting next year. Even if he had been accepted at the most exclusive private school in town it wouldn't affect my commute, as I happen to drive past their front door every morning on my way to work. Like I said, the conventional wisdom isn't true every single time.

I'm not disputing the usual advantages of living in a good school district. Yes, the resale value *is* better. But is it good enough to justify going deeply into debt for if your living conditions are otherwise good? I know lots of people who are currently living in rented digs with their credit shot to heck because they lost that house in the good school district when the layoffs hit, and they lost the school district, too, because there are no rentals that they can now afford there, either. The great district is a great advantage, but sometimes the debt level that is incurred can still outweigh that in the end. There is no way that we would have recouped anything even close to $220K in 14 years -- that bird has flown now, and in any case never really existed here; flipping was not that profitable here at any time. By sticking with private school we also gave ourselves more of a financial cushion in case of disaster, because I can always pull my kid out of school at the end of the year if it comes to that, or apply for means-based aid, but I can't count on being able to sell a house in a hurry, no matter where it is. (Between us we've experienced 3 layoffs in 4 years; experiencing that gives a person ample reason to be cautious.)

I'm certainly not offering my conclusion as the right one for everyone or even for "most" people, and I know that my city is fairly unique in the wide range of private schools that exist here -- but what I am saying is that the math needs to be done with both eyes open and all financial factors taken into account. What's best for "most people" actually may not turn out to be best for a particular individual family.

 

[TheRatPack]

We offered 15,000 or 20,000 under what ours was listed at. It had been on the market for a year or more, and the person selling it had already taken a new job in another city and just wanted to get this house sold. He came back with a counteroffer for what he had to have out of it, and agreed to fix the few things that needed done before moving....so it was a good deal.

You don't want to offer too low a price, that would offend the buyer and they don't have to accept any more offers from you if they don't want to. But, factor in how long it's been on the market, why the seller has the house up for sale, what others are selling for in the area...etc. We were lucky to have a house just 3 down from this one that was for sale at the same time, so that was a good comparison. You can usually ask your realtor to do a search for you though if nothing that close if selling.

 

[jsmith]

i sold a home in the market you are talking about-if its where i think-about 3 years ago-and im gonna go against the advice you have gotten here. We are still in the area-although the market here is different than up north. 58 days is wayyyyyyyyyy below average time on the market in this area-ours was on the market for 7 months and the average is someting like 192 days-so 58 days in your seller may be inclined to hold out for a higher offer or to counter back higher-we orginally listed at 205,000-the first offer we got was 179,500. That was too low-even in that market for the area we were in-we didnt even counter-we eventually got a reasonable offer and did some negotiations-we got what we wanted-we did pay a portion of the buys closing costs which is something you can certainly ask for.

 

[01spirit750]

Here is an interesting story. (I have never heard of this happening before).

Backstory: A co worker who lived one street over decided to retire and sell his house to move to a different state. So he put his house up for sale, here is what happened. (as told to me)

A bidding war started on his house. The bidders were a young nice couple and a well off couple who had a bit of an ego and knew they could outbid the other couple. Well I guess after several back and forth bids between the two couples the young couple final told the seller that they could not afford to increase their bid but they really liked the house.

Well I guess the ego of the well to do couple offended the seller and the seller decided to accept the younger couples offer, even though it was less.

 

[Kathi OD]

I haven't read all the posts, however we buy and sell a lot of real estate, I highly recommend zillow.com. It is a great way to check out values, current listings, what the house last sold for, what it was last listed for etc. We also do first trust deed notes and I really rely on zillow for accurate info. I would never just believe a realtor or mortgage brokers word.

Depending on where you live, Zillow may not be quite so accurate. In our current neighborhood, they have the houses severely undervalued. In our old neighborhood, they are severely overvalued. I think this happens especially in neighborhoods that are not of your cookie-cutter variety.

Right now our home, which is the smallest in our neighborhood, and probably has the least amount of high-end amenities, is valued about 10K higher than most the other homes in the neighborhood on Zillow. All of the homes are priced about $30K less than they are selling for.

Here is an interesting story. (I have never heard of this happening before).

Backstory: A co worker who lived one street over decided to retire and sell his house to move to a different state. So he put his house up for sale, here is what happened. (as told to me)

A bidding war started on his house. The bidders were a young nice couple and a well off couple who had a bit of an ego and knew they could outbid the other couple. Well I guess after several back and forth bids between the two couples the young couple final told the seller that they could not afford to increase their bid but they really liked the house.

Well I guess the ego of the well to do couple offended the seller and the seller decided to accept the younger couples offer, even though it was less.

I've heard this happening on a few occasions. Nobody likes a bully.

 

[disneychrista]

If it is a fair offer than it is not rude at all. Look at what other houses have sold for in your area.

You have to look at what other house have sold for. If it is priced comparable to those, then offering nearly 10% less is too low. Rule of thumb, that i have heard is 5% under asking if priced right.

Now if it is priced high compared to other house SALES (not listings) in the area and the 133 is closer to what houses are going for then you should be fine.

 

[surfgirl]

In our case we realized that moving from our paid-for home in a bad district (but a GREAT neighborhood) would probably not be worth it. Private school will cost us approximately $100K for both kids to get all the way through. The taxes are about $2K, so the obligation would be about $128K. The good district would cost us around $4K in taxes each year, so the difference is approximately $72K that we would save by moving and being able to use public school. Upon consideration, we just couldn't see taking on nearly $300K in debt in order to save $72K.

In some cases, tax dollar do not equal school dollars.

For example, school dollars are paid with after-tax money - so to pay $100k, you need to earn $150k (or more) to pay for that. Real estate taxes are a tax deduction, so you actually reduce your federal tax liability.

I realize that I'm also over-simplifying, but it isn't as simple as comparing apples and apples. Or honestly, even apples and oranges. It is a little more complex. Also, will the prices of the houses in two different school districts appreciate at the same rate ? I know in our area, a few school districts have held their value extremely well, while others (in comparable neighborhoods) have taken some decent hits.

It is good to think outside the box and I agree that the conventional wisdom of "good school district" doesn't fit for everyone, but there are other factors, too.

 

[luvmylittleboy2003]

Thanks everyone! Loving the feedback I never imagined how stressful a cross country move could be and whats involved when looking for a house and a very limited time range. We basically have a month, to find a house, move, & close. Really don't see that happening. We are looking a only vacant/new home & have found several. We plan on flying out there next weekend, putting bids in on the house(s) we like and go from there. We are pre-qualified for the loan, but, even that is stressful because I know underwriting can look at it and say no (which she doesn't see happening in her 16 years of experience) but I hate to go through all of this and it fall through. Kinda wondering if renting would have been a better option - lol. Ugh...talk about major headache!

 

[MissBritt]

We bought our house in 2008 for $35,000 less than the listed price, which they had just dropped by $25,000 a few weeks before. So basically $60,000 less than they had been asking.

 

[ellone]

Lets say a house is listed for 144,000 is it rude to offer 134,000? I think 134 seems rude, but, hubby doesn't...I would offer 139...need advice on this please. Also...would you use the Realtor that is listing the house or get your own?

My sister offered $175K on a house listed at 220K. She brought a family friend who is a contractor along when she looked at it and he basically told her it needed $50K worth of work (roof damage, floor damage, wall damage). The listing agent was full of crap on the comps he pulled to come up with the $220K number - those houses weren't comparable - the other houses had new roofs, redone kitchens, etc.

Didn't take the offer, but it's two months later, and the asking price has been reduced and no one is interested.

 

[Gr8dan2]

Depending on where you live, Zillow may not be quite so accurate. In our current neighborhood, they have the houses severely undervalued. In our old neighborhood, they are severely overvalued. I think this happens especially in neighborhoods that are not of your cookie-cutter variety.


Zillow is way off in our area. My home shows on zillow as less than 1/2 the square footage that it is-- it says 1452 sq ft and its actually over 3200 sq ft. There are several in our neighborhood that are showing that way and there is nothing in the neighborhood even close to that size. The 'zestimate' seems to largely based on that sq footage, the house next to me is properly showing at about 2900 sq feet and the zillow estimate is over $100k higher than ours (and the others showing as much smaller than they are).

Point being Zillow might be an okay place to start, but certainly not reliable.

I think offering significantly less is kind of par for the course in this market. People will play ball or they won't, but i'm guessing if the homes been sitting for more than a few months even that they'll at least counter.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

Depending on where you live, Zillow may not be quite so accurate. In our current neighborhood, they have the houses severely undervalued. In our old neighborhood, they are severely overvalued. I think this happens especially in neighborhoods that are not of your cookie-cutter variety.


Zillow is way off in our area. My home shows on zillow as less than 1/2 the square footage that it is-- it says 1452 sq ft and its actually over 3200 sq ft. There are several in our neighborhood that are showing that way and there is nothing in the neighborhood even close to that size. The 'zestimate' seems to largely based on that sq footage, the house next to me is properly showing at about 2900 sq feet and the zillow estimate is over $100k higher than ours (and the others showing as much smaller than they are).

Point being Zillow might be an okay place to start, but certainly not reliable.

I think offering significantly less is kind of par for the course in this market. People will play ball or they won't, but i'm guessing if the homes been sitting for more than a few months even that they'll at least counter.

Just as an FYI, you can go into Zillow and update the information on your house that is incorrect. They usually get the info from county filings when the house is built if it's a new built home, so they don't include any basement finishes or anything else. I did and our house is showing much higher now.

OP, it's business, not personal, you're not here to ensure they get the best price for their house, you're here to ensure you get the best price for your house, whole different kettle of fish. They can always decline, or counter. From your sig it looks like you live in CO now or are you moving away from CO? The housing market here isn't up, so your offer may be great for them.

 

[Kathi OD]

Just as an FYI, you can go into Zillow and update the information on your house that is incorrect. They usually get the info from county filings when the house is built if it's a new built home, so they don't include any basement finishes or anything else. I did and our house is showing much higher now.

I was aware of this and did update our home, which may be why ours is showing higher than our neighbors. However, it's still undervalued, and by quite a bit.