off propert trip values?

[tripletvan]

Is there any off property vacation spots where you get a good value for your points? I have been looking and really have not found a great value am I missing something? I did find a few I should say but that would only work if it was just my husband & I as oppossed to a family vacation.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Hi tripletvan. I will spare you the formula, as long as you will take my word for it . One point, this year, costs a member roughly $6.00. That being said, multiply $6 by the number of points for the exchange, and compare that to the cash price. Remember that when using points, tax is included.

Have fun.....

 

[spiceycat]

you get the best value for your points at a DVC resort - how about HH or VB?

they want you to use your points at their resorts.

I almost like the new points exchange from II for the 1-bedroom. but I have another timeshare to exchange so I don't generally use DVC except at WDW.

 

[Dean]

I would never let my points go for $6 pp, that's only the fees and direct costs divided by the length of use. It does nothing to take into account the lost earnings on the investment or lost flexibility involved when cash talks. My highest price pp was $54 on my resales and I'd never let them go for a value of less than $8 pp unless it was a situation when I would lose some and couldn't do anything else or rent them. If I bought with the new prices, I'd not accept a value less than $10 pp. What anyone else wants to do with their points or how they want to value them is their business.

Just think how DVC does this. They get a somewhat blanket price from a vendor (CC, DC, DCL, etc) which is essentially a discounted rack rate, say 10-20% or so. They then turn around and rent out rooms secured with the points one gave up for the exchange. Per DVC they only rent out about 75% of the rooms and I'm sure they give CRO a fee equal to around 35% of the total received. This gives them roughtly 50¢ on the dollar, much like when you rent out a beach house and use a management company. The numbers just don't add up.

I have a DCL cruise booked for March of next year at $2632 for 3 (cat 11). The cruise would be 466 points or about $5.65 pp plus the $75 exchange fee making the valu $5.50 pp. Plus with cash I get a $50 credit using my Disney CC, $75 credit with the booking agent and if the price goes down I get the cheaper price. I know if the points go down one could get refunded but that's less likely than a price reduction. Also I can book up to 18 months out with cash giving a better cabin choice, only 11 months with DVC and if I need to cancel I can get a full refund until 60 days out. It's a no brainer from my perspective.

II and direct exchanges can be a good value if you chose both season and resort very carefully or if you exchange less points directly than it would be through II.

 

[new_yawka]

The more I believe Richyams story about Dean having childhood issues with his points

Seriously, Dean's math looks right and most people will readily agree that "value" from a financial perspective only comes in the form of using DVC points at DVC resorts...

...the only justification for using the points off property is convenience. The convenience of having prepaid your lodgings wherever you may roam and the convenience of using member services for your vacation needs on and off property. Some people are willing to pay (even handsomely) for such convenience.

That said, there are times of year (ussually offpeak) when you will get higher value out of your traded points, but rarely, if ever will you get full value.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by new_yawka
...most people will readily agree that "value" from a financial perspective only comes in the form of using DVC points at DVC resorts...

...the only justification for using the points off property is convenience.

While I agree that using points for other than DVC resorts is not the best use of points, I strongly disagree that it is a bad use of points.
Again, figure out how much a DVC point actually costs you. My points cost a little less than $6 per point, per year.
I know some folks here choose to figure lost interest income into the equation. If you are going to figure that, please do not over estimate the lost return. The last couple years lost investment income could very well be a negative number. Also don't forget to subtract the amount you would be spending on a Disney hotel (and that amount will climb every year). That investment capital will dwindle down quite quickly, and after five or so years really will not earn that much (even in a good market). You can not look at the whole DVC investment earning 8% interest for 40 years. You would be grossly in error if you did.
That being said, I realize that there is other ways that folks value their points, and I really don't think there is 'one absolute correct way'.

Good luck....

 

[Pa@okw95]

This question comes up very often on these boards, the simple truth is that using your points anywhere but DVC is burning money. Now I have done it, for a one bedroom similar to the ones at OKW, bathroom was smaller of course, but full kitchen, etc, view great, it cost me 156 points for 3 days, had I stayed 5 days that works out to 260 points for 5 days, now had I stayed at OKW, 5 days would cost about 90 points for the same size unit, etc, that is 90 points versus 260 points, using my math, that comes up with almost a 3 times more cost in points, if fact had I used 80 point value for January, it would be more than 3 times as expensive. Why did I do it, you get tired of going to WDW more than 2 times a year. It is a use it or lose it situation. I won't do it again but I did do it once.

 

[WolfpackFan]

Originally posted by Pa@okw95
This question comes up very often on these boards, the simple truth is that using your points anywhere but DVC is burning money.

I realize this is an old thread - but I was just reading through some of the old postings and ran across this thread. If what the above poster said is true, why does DVC make such a big deal in the presentations and in the DVC book about how many other options there are to use your points besides DVC properties. I'm confused. Frankly, this is one of the reasons I'm able to sell my wife on DVC. She will not go to WDW every year (or possibly every other year), the idea of being able to stay at other non-DVC resorts is the only way I can sell her on the idea of buying into DVC. If this is all a false promise, I need to think seriously about whether we are doing the right thing.

 

[Pa@okw95]

To Wolfpack--You can use you points at a lot of different places but when you do you get killed. If I were you I would check for yourself how much it would cost to stay somewhere else when using your points. I am not making my situation up. it cost about 3 times as much in points. The word to the wise--buy DVC if you plan on going to WDW, do not buy with the idea of using your points outside of WDW. You really are not a prime candidate for DVC with your idea of using pionts so often to go elsewhere. what I would suggest if you really want to join DVC make sure you only buy enough points to use on your WDW vacations and pay cash for other trips.

 

[jcanary]

A few years ago I used points to go to Disneyland. However, i paid for one extra night. When I sat down to figure out if I had rented my points for $9-10 a point I would have been able to pay for all three nights with cash and the cash I had used for the one night would have gone back into my pocket.
I try to use this as a factor. Again with the number of points that it costs what would it have cost you out of pocket? If you paid cash you may also be able to obtain some other benefits. I am not saying this is always the case but I feel it is the one way I can figure what would be the most beneficial, and easiest, way to go.
A few years ago we went to Hawaii but I rented a timeshare from someone else and I sold my points which paid for the price of the timeshare and most of the airfare to go to Hawaii from the east coast.
I have seen alot of places on the boards where they say that unless you are going to use it for Disney it is not the best buy, I kinda disagree. Because I can sell mypoints very easily and use cash for my every other year or every third year vacation. Disney is still my primary vacation spot, even with a DD's 22 and 15, but Hawaii is coming a close second. We have been members for 10 years so NO I did not join just to sell my points, believe me we have used them all.
So when it comes to a trade I do not recommend it unless the cash price would be more.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Pa@okw95
This question comes up very often on these boards, the simple truth is that using your points anywhere but DVC is burning money.

True... and not true...

I agree that using points to stay at a non-DVC Disney resort or at a Concierge Collection deluxe hotel is usually a dubious proposition in terms of value. It might be a good way to use points that would otherwise expire, and it's a way to afford a luxury with money that you've spent anyway. But the value per point is below that of staying at a DVC resort.

But a World Passport Collection (Interval International) exchange can be a good value. In fact, it can be a very good value.

If we, as DVC members, consider that 270 points for a week in a 1BR at VWL or BCV during Magic Season is a good value, then why isn't 160 points for a week in a 1BR at a top timeshare resort during high season also a good value? Perhaps even a better value? How is this "burning money?"

Sure, there's a $75 fee, and it takes plenty of advance planning and a certain amount of luck to get a World Passport Collection exchange. But if you're succesful, you'll be in a 1BR that's similar in quality to a DVC resort, and you'll still have 90 points left over to use for a mid-week stay ot a DVC resort or to bank for a longer DVC stay next year.

Some DVC members have other timeshares that they can use for II or RCI exchanges. But for other members, the World Passport Collection provides an excellent opportunity to go someplace other than WDW once every few years.

Don't let blanket statements, such as "the simple truth is that using your points anywhere but DVC is burning money," scare you away from using your points to add some variety to your vacations.

 

[Richyams]

Dean is not going to like that.

I wish we could be more sensitive and stop needling him with examples of good trades. Remember, good trades are few and far between, a trade out of DVC is a step down, usually a big step down.

If this keeps up, this thread will have to be reported to the moderators.

 

[WolfpackFan]

Originally posted by Horace Horsecollar
True... and not true...
But a World Passport Collection (Interval International) exchange can be a good value. In fact, it can be a very good value.

Thanks for this post. This is basically what I was hoping to hear.

 

[Pa@okw95]

Wolfpack--Horace is using weekend points for his example. I trust you know about weekend points at DVC. I rented a one bedroom this Jan at OKW for 80 points for 5 days. I arrived one day early and used my points for Saturday in cost me 40 points. 80 points for 5 days, 40 points for one day. You are going to hear what you want to hear, but if I stay in a similar unit at Lake George it would cost me 260 points for 5 days, compare that to 80 points at WDW<DVC,

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Pa@okw95
Wolfpack--Horace is using weekend points for his example. I trust you know about weekend points at DVC.

OK, for the sake of argument, let's assume a 5-night VWL or BCV stay that does not include a Friday or Saturday night. In that case, I could have written:
<blockquote>If we, as DVC members, consider that 150 points for a mere 5-night stay in a 1BR at VWL or BCV during Magic Season is a good value, then why isn't 160 points for a full 7-night stay in a 1BR at a top timeshare resort during high season also a good value? Perhaps even a better value? How is this "burning money?"</blockquote>
Even with this revised example, the World Passport Collection is still a good value.

Of course, many DVC members stay at DVC resorts on Friday and Saturday nights, even if Pa@okw95 never does. And many members enjoy staying a full week.

Originally posted by Pa@okw95
if I stay in a similar unit at Lake George it would cost me 260 points for 5 days, compare that to 80 points at WDW<DVC,

I don't see that using a Concierge Collection stay at the Sagamore at Lake George as an example disproves anything about my comments regarding the World Passport Collection.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Richyams
Dean is not going to like that.

I wish we could be more sensitive and stop needling him with examples of good trades. Remember, good trades are few and far between, a trade out of DVC is a step down, usually a big step down.

If this keeps up, this thread will have to be reported to the moderators.

Quite the contrary Rich, I would love a viable and reasonable exchange program, it's a shame we don't have one. There are a few situations where the value is truly there and others where it is not. My criteria for a fair trade takes into account what I could get the trade for with another (much cheaper) timeshare, rent for cash or even get through II for a bonus week. Then the question is would I pay X dollars for something. That's especially true for the CC, DC or the like. Would I pay $500 a night for the Plaza in NY, no, but maybe I could get it cash for $295.

That means that top resorts at peak times are probably good to very good values but as a rule those people think the same way most DVC members do and therefore few of those resorts will be available peak times. Even then I don't pay weekend points and you must to do a trade through II. So to me a 1 BR may cost 100 points for 5 nights but 160 points for an exchange for 7 nights and I've giving up the on site benefit of DVC which is why we paid a premium for DVC to start with.

I get amused when someone says I went to KCR or Four Seasons in September. While they are great resorts those would be available much cheaper through other directions for non peak times. What anyone wants to do with their points in their business and if they're happy, I'm happy. I just want members to think about what their doing and do what's best for them.

 

[Dean]

Horace, what would be several examples of a good value? Here are a few of my own examples of good choices:

1. HI Marriott;s except Kauai for Sept to early December.
2. Marriott NewPort Coas xmas and June to early July.
3. Four Seasons CA summer.
4. Desert CA Marriott's, Aruba Marriott, Royals, Hyatt's (PR and Key West), Westin St. John's, Paradise Village, MX all Xmas to Easter.
5. Top resorts (mostly Marriott's) for top ski times.
6. Marriott's on HH for mid June to late August, only Heritage if one golfs.
   [/list=1]
   
   Things I would consider of questionable or not good value would include:
   1. Above resorts for other times.
   2. KCR any time, great resort just too easy to get otherwise.
   3. Willaimsburg anytime.
   4. Anything in the NE on the II-DVC list.
   5. Most other resorts in the areas mentioned above.
      [/list=1]
      
      I concentrated on the areas I knew more about. I didn't list Europe, South America or elsewhere since I know less about many of those resorts.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Dean,

You and I are approaching this question from two different perspectives.

Your points are completely valid for someone like yourself who owns several different timeshares, with varying degrees of trading power, and who has access to II bonus weeks and II getaways. You have lots of options, including digging into your pocket.

But what about a family that owns 240 DVC points and owns no other timeshares? Let's assume they've been going to WDW year after year. They enjoy staying in a 1BR or 2BR, and they don't mind making their own beds. Perhaps, next year, instead of going to WDW, they'd like to go to the beach or to the desert or to a city like Boston, or maybe they've always wanted to go to Hawaii. They have neither unlimited vacation time nor unlimited money.

Is a World Passport Collection exchange a good value for them? My answer would be yes. And it would give them a much better value than using the Concierge Collection.

We could quibble about your list. For example the best weather of the year at Newport Coast is in September, although July and August are better months for people with kids in school -- while the largely gray, overcast sky in June is called "June Gloom" around there (so I'm not sure why you wrote, "xmas and June to early July" for Newport Coast).

I would add Marriott's Boston Custom House to the list. The location is great; all units are 1BR; and the cash rate is high.

And I'm not sure why you're excluding the Marriott in Kauai (or which of the two Marriotts on Kauai you're excluding). I've stayed in a 1BR at the Kauai Beach Club, and I can only say it's a great place to stay any time of the year.

I think your list of good values is way too limited. I wouldn't exclude all the places you're excluding.

I'm concerned that the buzz on this board is usually that using points outside of DVC is always a waste of points. I disagree.

When someone buys into DVC, they get an allotment of points every year. The real question should be, "How can I get the most enjoyment out of these points next year?" For some, the answer is to go to WDW every year, and to reach into their pocket if they want to go somewhere else. But for others, using the World Passport Collection for a vacation to Lake Tahoe or Kauai or Williamsburg may be the right answer -- and spending only $75 more than the money they're obligated to spend anyway as DVC members.

 

[Dizzie]

At the risk of being attacked, I have to agree with Horace. From lurking on these boards, it's clear that most of the people here are total Disney fans and that may skew the view of using points elsewhere. I consider myself to be a Disney freak, I can't get enough of it. I already have my next 2 WDW trips booked.

But we do like to travel a lot of places and we use our points to stay at those locations. We do realize that it might "cost" more than the stay at WDW, but since we've already paid for our stay, why not use it. The lodging out of WDW may not be as nice but we have never had a bad experience, just a different and wonderful trip.

 

[Dean]

Horace, I realized that we are splitting hairs. My list wasn't inclusive, only examples. I excluded Kauai for part of the year because it's easy to get for that part other ways. I'd agree with adding Custom House, forgot about it. Whether it's right for an individual is not the same as it being a good value. If you've got points and want to use them for an exchange and that's right for you, go for it. That doesn't make it a good value in my estimation so I'd separate out the value aspect from what feels good, to me it's more of a financial decision. I'd be concerned that someone who can't afford to pay $700 for a 1 week stay extra above their DVC, probably shouldn't own DVC either or should have bought less points so they could do other things at times, but that's their business. When you trade points for a stay, you are basically using cash so to me it's the same. Anyone else could buy another timeshare if they wanted and in the case of anyone who wants to do very much exchanging, they'd likely be far better off.

Put another way, one can go on a great vacation at a great resort and still not have an equivilent value of their DVC exchange. So the fact that someone loved their exchange doesn't make it a good value. There are many people who are driving cars they like but paid too much for.

Lets try another way. Exchanging for KCR on the Big Island is not a good value. It's easy to get and easy to rent. One can get a rental there routinely for $1200 or less for a 2 BR. Likewise Aruba in Summer is questionable under the new exchange rules though it was a decent deal for a studio under the old rules. When I exchange a timeshare I always expect to trade up in unit size, season, or resort quality and in most cases at least 2 of the 3. So if all I'm doing is getting a resort and area that is essentially equal to my DVC property, it's not really equal.

The one aspect about the program I like is the ability to do search first up to 2 years out. That way you can check air fare before you say OK. That has value. The best value though for exchanging DVC is direct exchange with other timeshsare owners though there is a mild amount of risk involved.