Off-Leash Dog Parks

[Pea-n-Me]

Yeah, a lot of times we as humans either completely misunderstand, misinterpret, or plain overlook dog communication. I think you are right that there is a lot of communicating going on at a dog park. That is why maybe from our point of view, everything is going fine until it wasn't. From the dog point of view, tensions could have been building for awhile.

I also think that there are dogs who are "socially inept", meaning they don't speak dog well. Some dogs don't seem to understand the warnings they are getting from other dogs to leave them alone, etc. I think this has to do with a lot of dogs being taken from litters too early, where they missed crucial time with their siblings. Other dogs may have been traumatized, etc. My dogs can be giving clear signals that even I understand, and another dog will completely ignore it until they get growled at. It is strange.

I think a lot of people don't understand socialization. To my mind, it doesn't mean that my dogs have to play with other dogs or run around in a pack. It means that when they are with other dogs, they know how to act. They don't lose their minds in either fear or craziness. It doesn't mean they have to be best friends with any other dog that comes along.

I also think group training is a good idea. I do obedience and beginning agility with my dogs in group settings. It is amazing how few problems there are in my group classes. Probably because the owners are invested in their dogs and are in tune with what is going on. My small dogs have never been attacked or harassed in a group setting, even when off leash running through agility equipment. Even before and after classes when the dogs are off leash, I haven't had any problems. Go figure!

ETA: Wow, didn't realize how much some big dog people dislike small dogs, lol. Although I think mostly we all dislike untrained, bratty dogs. Personally I think those come in all sizes!

I agree 100% with your post!

 

[Sarah_Rose]

I do think there's something that happens between dogs themselves that most of us don't quite fully recognize or understand. And I don't fully understand it, either. But I have been able to observe it and try to make sense of it for my own understanding. One thing I do know is that things becomes quite complicated when dogs are in pairs or packs, when they're leashed and not leashed, when they're in a controlled situation (leashed and unleashed) vs an uncontrolled situation (leashed and unleashed), etc.

Prior to my current dog, I had two German Shepherds who loved other dogs and would be quite happy running around playing in a dog park. They seemed to project to other dogs that they were open to play and "friendships" and were relatively submissive, apparently. Anyone could bring their dog(s) in my yard and all would play. OTOH, my current dog loves people, especially kids, but doesn't particularly care for other dogs even though she will tolerate them and even walk with them without an issue if they leave her alone. But somehow, many dogs pick up on "something" with her and want to challenge her. I believe it is probably about dominance. It has been very interesting to observe, ie the differences between walking her and walking my other two (and all of them had virtually the same training and same socialization by me from puppyhood and in extensive group class with a professional trainer to fully off leash and hand signal trained). The difference, as best I can tell, is themselves, their personalities and the persona they project. My current dog is a dominant female and projects that to others, a few of whom want to challenge her, most of those being males. (Laugh O Grams, this could possibly apply in your case as well.) Dogs, in their interactions even from far away, sense something we can't see or "get".

Bottom line, in a dog park, it's a free for all. There's all this "stuff" happening among and between the dogs (and people) with little control or even wherewithall by owners or power to do much about it if a problem occurs. People seem to think that all dogs love other dogs and love to play with eachother, that only untrained or unsocialzed dogs cause problems (which is generally true but discounts many other factors that come into play), that big dogs cause most of the problems, that little dogs can do no wrong, that bully type dogs are all bad, blah, blah, blah; and to not recognize things actually happening like dominance issues, simple dislike of another dog type or personality (some dogs don't like sporting breeds, for instance, or hyper dogs, and it is never a good idea for one dog to be in another dog's "face" - this is etiquette that needs to be taught and enforced as it is a cause of many dog fights), dogs' breeds and/or roots in behavior and habits, etc. Cause in reality there's all this other stuff going on and it can led to problems if left unchecked. (Does anyone remember the Dis poster a few years back whose Weimeraner was killed by other dogs at a doggie day care in an uncontrolled situation? )

I am a big fan of group training for dogs. Dogs are together, yet under control, with a trainer right there to point out problems to owners and to convey how to institute corrections right then and there. It's great, because everyone stays safe and people learn what mistakes they're making with their dog, and how to control the dog, etc. None of which occurs in a dog park. All you get are people yelling at eachother if their dogs aren't getting along, but what they fail to see is how their own dogs are either consciously, unconsciously, inadvertently or etiquette wise contributing to the problem, or things they could have done to prevent problems, etc. Prior to owning a dominant dog and knowing what I know today about dogs, I might have mistakenly thought a differenty way, too. But I know more now, having learned along the way with my own dogs and taken on dog training and behavior as a hobby over two decades ago. (Now you can see where my mind is. )

Which is why, with my current dog, I'll avoid dog parks. Being a GS she will almost always get the "blame" even if it wasn't her that caused the problem in the first place (at least not intentionally; there's not a lot I can do if she projects dominance to other dogs in dog speak, lol). I'd rather do our own thing under conditions I can control and prevent problems as best I can and stick with dogs we know get along well together.

As per usual, I think you're spot on, and you've given me a lot to think about.

My girl Shepherd is very submissive, as far as Shepherds go. She never gets into trouble... she plays with the dogs that want to play with her, she avoids the ones that don't, and she gives very clear 'back off' signals when another dog goes too far. Our male, on the other hand, is aloof and dominant. He's always polite (no clear dominance displays, or anything like that), never fights except to defend himself from an attack (and even then, gets out of the situation as quick as he can), and really just wants to visit the humans and chase his toy or swim at the dog park. And yet he's challenged all the time. Even in a group obedience class a few years ago, there was a dog-aggressive Lab that singled out my dog as the object of his fury, and he would snarl and lunge every time my dog came anywhere near him. There has to be some signal that I can't see or understand that he's putting off to the other dogs.

I'm really re-thinking the whole dog park thing, now. I normally take them on weekday mornings when the park is pretty empty, but I might have to start getting up earlier and/or only going when the weather is bad and it's only the hardcore regulars. I just wish there was another option for us, as far as getting Jack out to chase a ball. Fetch is his favorite activity, and the core of our obedience work (he isn't food-motivated at all, but he will do ANYTHING for a ball), and we live in the middle of the city, without a yard to speak of.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

She does great as long as I have a jackpot treat, but as soon as I don't she knows it and won't come!

Ah, one of the problems of training with treats (IMO). Not acceptable not to comply. Dog should do what you want regardless of whether you have a treat in your hand. It could save his life someday. If your dog is running toward the street and you give him the Down command, he should lay down, then and there. And yup, it takes a lot of work to get to that point. I use verbal and tactile praise, and sometimes a treat at the end of a session, especially early on, but that's it. Always remember to say, "Good girl/good boy" when the dog does what you want it to do. I'm always surprised at how many people don't do this. If you do it consistently, it's a great way to let your dog know he's pleasing you/doing the right thing very easily, i.e. verbal praise.

If you give your "hurry hurry" command and the dog doesn't come, you go and get the dog and back up and get him to come to you, then praise. Never give the command when you can't enforce it. I'm not sure where your trainer got hurry hurry, lol, but the more universal command for recall is Come. This will enable others to give your dog the command if need be (God forbid it's running in traffic or something).

 

[Pea-n-Me]

My girl Shepherd is very submissive, as far as Shepherds go. She never gets into trouble... she plays with the dogs that want to play with her, she avoids the ones that don't, and she gives very clear 'back off' signals when another dog goes too far. Our male, on the other hand, is aloof and dominant. He's always polite (no clear dominance displays, or anything like that), never fights except to defend himself from an attack (and even then, gets out of the situation as quick as he can), and really just wants to visit the humans and chase his toy or swim at the dog park. And yet he's challenged all the time. Even in a group obedience class a few years ago, there was a dog-aggressive Lab that singled out my dog as the object of his fury, and he would snarl and lunge every time my dog came anywhere near him. There has to be some signal that I can't see or understand that he's putting off to the other dogs.

I'm really re-thinking the whole dog park thing, now. I normally take them on weekday mornings when the park is pretty empty, but I might have to start getting up earlier and/or only going when the weather is bad and it's only the hardcore regulars. I just wish there was another option for us, as far as getting Jack out to chase a ball. Fetch is his favorite activity, and the core of our obedience work (he isn't food-motivated at all, but he will do ANYTHING for a ball), and we live in the middle of the city, without a yard to speak of.

Your Shepherds sound like my last two, except my male wasn't the dominant type. He could care less about food, too, but lived and breathed for his frisbee (completely obsessed!)! In his class he was also targeted by one dog who loved to antagonize him, an Australian Shepherd. It drove me especially when the owner wouldn't correct its behavior. (It almost caused me to leave the class but I eventually spoke to the trainer about it and we worked it out.) I've always wondered what it was between these two that caused this type of interaction. The sweet reward was that there was also a female Malamute in the class who my dog would actually swoon over when she came to class, and she reciprocated. They really liked eachother. Funny, isn't it?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

A few interesting articles given the discussion here:

http://www.vetinfo.com/dog-communication.html

http://www.caninecoaching.co.uk/page/canine_communication

Sarah Rose, you'll like this one: http://www.aboutgermanshepherddog.com/page.php?page_id=57

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I posted this on today's other dog thread but there were a couple of things I thought were pertinent for here.

Resource Guarding
By Kathy Diamond Davis

Resource guarding is normal dog behavior. Like many other dog behaviors, it’s dangerous when it goes too far. Also like some other behaviors, it is an instinct best kept dormant and never triggered in the first place.

Resource guarding that a dog displays toward other animals can extend to humans—especially to small children. People often try to prevent or cure this problem by forcefully or repeatedly taking things away from the dog. This actually makes resource guarding worse and can be the trigger for it in the first place.

A young dog who grabs something people aren’t willing to have eaten or chewed by the dog and then has that item snatched away by a human is being given a reason to guard things more determinedly in the future. It’s much safer to create the pattern in your dog’s experience that people are givers rather than takers. If you have to remove something from your dog, simply “pay” for it—and make the payment something the dog considers a great exchange!

When you look at a resource from the dog’s point of view, you’ll soon see that it doesn’t take a filet mignon to replace an expensive shoe the dog has found to chew. Keep an assortment of good dog toys in easy reach. The toy you pick up and start animating for exciting play with the dog will immediately become more interesting than the stolen shoe just laying there doing nothing!

Pay attention to the texture of the inappropriate items your dog picks to chew, and find a toy of similar texture for the trade. Dogs often choose specific textures to chew because that is what their teeth need at that time. If the dog has stolen food (and hasn’t eaten it yet!), swap for food.

Guarding Food

Interestingly, dogs enjoy food they pursue more than they enjoy food offered “free.” You will often see this at work with a picky eater who ignores food in the dish or just handed out, but eagerly accepts chances to catch or earn food. This can get dogs to eat who otherwise will not eat in a particular situation. That’s why an “eye contact” exercise that includes moving and having the dog move with you is more effective than just handing the dog bits of food. [See Eye Contact.]

The way you manage your dog’s day-to-day life will largely determine how much of a problem you’ll have with resource guarding. Avoid letting other animals or young children approach your dog when the dog is eating, and don’t let anyone tease the dog over food. Instead, walk up and add extras to the dog’s food.

Eventually you can include children in this exercise with your supervision and with a dog who is showing no resource-guarding behavior. But unless you are helping the child and watching very closely, children under school age are best kept away from an eating dog.

If you have a dog prone to resource guarding or if you have a young child in the house, feed the dog scheduled meals and take the dish up off the floor between meals. Keep the dog’s meal times to just a few minutes so you can supervise. Dogs need water available at all times, and usually don’t guard the water dish.

Let the dog know by consistent handling that you will distribute the food and that the dog has no need to worry about defending food. Then if a child does wander up to the dish sometime before an adult notices and moves the child away, there is hope your dog will not be on guard and ready to strike.

Guarding People

Dogs may guard humans as resources. If you have more dogs than time, a dog who feels a deep need to be with you might try to push other dogs away to get the closest position for petting. This will become more of a problem if you push that dog away. If possible, keep that dog near you while you pet others. Then the dog feels more security and less need to try to push others away.

Of course if the dogs don’t get along, having them both in petting range at the same time could put you in the middle of a dog fight, so we don’t want that. For dogs who don’t fight, try putting one on each side of you. If they do quarrel—or you fear that they would—make a big show of separate but equal time for them.

So that the dogs can recognize they are each getting fair turns, rotate the turns often. A human could understand that today is the other kid’s turn and yesterday was mine, but that’s too much of a stretch for a dog’s mind. Start with very short rotations—maybe just a couple of minutes with one dog and then move to the other—and then increase the length of each dog’s turn.

Another way to provide equal attention is to give each dog what that dog prefers. If one dog likes to cuddle with you and the other would rather chase a ball, you can do both of those things at once. Dogs will often adjust their activities to find a niche in the family.

When a dog leaves the family or a new dog joins the family, you will often see a change in other dogs’ behavior. This causes us to realize that much of a dog’s behavior is due to relationships in a social unit, not to that dog “being dominant” or having some other intrinsic trait. Like humans, dogs are adaptable to situations and to changes.

Sometimes a dog appears to be guarding a human when something else is actually happening. The person may feel safe and protected by a dog’s aggressive behavior toward others, when actually the dog is guarding things such as the warm spot for sleeping, the chance to catch crumbs when the person snacks, and petting from the person. Or, as is quite often the case, the dog is behaving defensively out of fear and is using the person as a human shield!

It’s a mistake to encourage a dog to behave aggressively toward people who approach you when the dog is with you. This is not a dog showing confidence. The aggression commonly escalates until someone gets hurt, and then the dog can’t be with you anymore.

If what you want is protection, encouraging surly behavior in a dog is not the way. Get the right help to teach your dog to accompany you courteously. Whether or not you decide it’s appropriate to teach your dog protection work, a good protection dog is not paranoid. In the case of a dog behaving aggressively toward humans, be sure to get the help of a veterinary behavior specialist. This expert will evaluate the dog’s temperament, take a complete history, and advise you of the risks and your options.

Guarding Toys

A dog’s concept of ownership has to be quite different from a human’s. After all, dogs don’t use money. Dogs use things to eat, to chew, to play (for exercise and practice of skills), to interact with others socially and perhaps for some other purposes as well. It’s easy for a human to misinterpret what an object means to a dog at any particular moment.

When a dog is highly excited and something suddenly shifts in the situation, the dog is likely to react without thinking. This can lead to fighting between dogs and bites to humans. You can greatly reduce the risks of these problems by how you handle your dogs in the moment, how you manage them daily, how you structure their environment, and the training habits you help them develop. All of these things are part of a safe lifestyle with dogs.

Dogs do not absolutely have to have some of the things that commonly trigger resource guarding aggression, such as rawhide. It is important that dogs have chewing outlets, for self calming as well as dental health, but you can use non-edible toys that are less likely to provoke fights. If you are going to use edible items (rawhide, pig’s ears, chew-hooves, etc.) for this purpose, treat them like food.

This means dogs need to be separated from other animals and young children when they have these items. It’s best not to wait and see if there will be a problem. Separate the dogs for things they consider to be highly desirable in order to prevent a problem. Having the dog enjoy these things in a crate can be the best practice if it takes longer to consume them than the length of time you can attentively supervise.

A toy in play is much more exciting to a dog than a toy just lying on the floor. You may be able to have certain toys around the house for your dogs to pick up and chew at will, unless a human starts tossing the toy. Until dogs are highly trained, you may need to play retrieving games and other exciting games such as tug-of-war with only one dog present at a time.

Some dogs can learn to take turns retrieving. One way to structure this is to have the same number (or more) toys with you as you have dogs. Say a dog’s name and throw the toy for that dog, then immediately do the next dog’s turn and the next in rapid sequence. Throw each toy in a different direction.

Two dogs can play this way fairly easily, three if they are amiable together. It gets harder with four. Don’t continue if the dogs start to spat. That tells you the excitement for this session has gotten out of hand. If you try again when they have had plenty of time to calm down, you may find—after a sufficient number of tries—that the dogs learn to take turns.

Dogs use toys socially in some strange ways. A dog may get a toy and lie down with it in a manner that “dares” another dog to try and get it. A dog may repeatedly take a toy away from another dog. To humans this behavior can seem selfish or mean, but the dogs are communicating important messages.

In a pack, there has to be order for the group to survive. Even in your home, the dogs need social structure among themselves to avoid living under excessive stress. They need to know which dog handles watching over territorial boundaries, which dog sleeps and eats in which spots, and other aspects of the daily routine. Dominance is not straightforward in many cases, because one dog handles one function while another takes the lead in a different situation.

The dog who takes the lead in protection may at times particularly feel the necessity of reminding the other dogs to obey him immediately without argument, by taking toys away from them. A female dog who has had pups or is unspayed may do this to other dogs, too. Perhaps she does this as a necessary pack discipline to maintain in order to provide for and protect pups. And some dogs are extremely possessive for reasons we just don’t know.

When you see this behavior, the best action from you really depends on how the dog who loses the toy reacts. If the “loser” accepts the other dog taking the toy, your best course is to ignore the incident. You may need to give this dog private time in a crate to enjoy chew toys. Don’t take the toy back from the dog who “won” it. A point was being made. If the dog who lost the toy accepted it, you’re better off accepting it, too.

On the other hand, if one dog swiping a toy from the other triggers an argument between them, they need to be separated to enjoy that toy. The rest of the time it should not be left out with them. Being able to have all the toys and chews lying around the house is something an “only dog” has to give up when you add another dog. It’s one reason some dogs really don’t want housemate dogs.

Risk Reduction

Many dogs become markedly less likely to fight over toys when toys are abundant in their environment. When a resource is plentiful, there’s less reason to fight for it. This can work with treats, too, when you distribute them by tossing small pieces all over the kitchen floor or walking a track in the back yard and dropping a few dozen small pieces of food for the dogs to find.

Some dogs will react to abundant resources by practically having nervous breakdowns trying to guard them all, though! So watch your dog’s behavior, and eliminate situations that create obvious conflict. Sometimes you can work things out by training and conditioning—over time, not in a hurry and definitely not with punishment. Punishment only makes resource guarding worse.

For the same reason it’s tricky throwing toys for multiple dogs at the same time—and never a good idea to throw just ONE toy for multiple dogs at the same time—toys in dog parks can present serious problems. Don’t put dogs in the position of feeling they need to protect these things.

If you train your dog with treats, it’s possible you have a resource guarding problem you’ve never identified. When a dog shows aggression to other dogs during outings with you, try leaving the treats at home several times and see if it makes a difference. Some dogs should not be trained with food in certain situations, and this is one such case. Find other ways to reward the dog when training around other dogs. This need not be a setback to training. It can make a better trainer out of you!
Resource Usefulness

All the things your dog needs and wants provide ways you can communicate with each other. The dog can ask for things, and can do things you like in order to persuade you.

You can provide resources in ways that shape your dog’s behavior to your wishes. How you distribute resources to your dogs can make them feel more secure.

Dogs can feel stress and anxiety over resources they fear will not be provided. Being a reliable provider raises you in the dog’s esteem. Including another family member in the dog’s care helps the dog learn to relate to that person.

The best reward for a dog at any given moment is the thing the dog happens to want right then. And yet, if a dog wants something TOO much, self-control may go out the window! Handling resources intelligently with our dogs is one of the most creative parts of having canine family members.