Of crowds and scooters

[jjarman]

Originally posted by M. Eisner
Actually, most people do choose to be overweight. Yes, there are a very few who have a true physical problem. But if one searches the history of human physiology or would look at European countries, the obesity problem is not as rampant as it is here. Doctors have come out often lately saying it is because of more food and less exercise. The more sedentary lifestyle people have chosen has led to this. Sorry if people take offense to this, but the majority of healthy people can control their weight. That's a fact.
But let's stay positive. The people in wheelchairs or strollers are not hurting anyone so just ignore them if they bother you!

I don't think it is so much they choose to be overweight but they choose not to take the effort to lose the weight. I know plenty of people in this catagory. It is not easy to lose weight. It takes effort and many overweight people just don't want to make that effort.

 

[seashoreCM]

Originally posted by skiwee1
My DD had her foot broken by someone on a scooter. This guy backed over her, she screamed, and he told her to get out of the way! I wanted to knock him right off of it but it might have looked bad! LOL! My DD had 3 broken bones in her foot from that moron.

Supposed to stop and exchange ID's. Just as out in the street with a licensed vehicle.

Just as out in the street, you are responsible for damage or injury caused by the motor vehicle you are operating. So is the vehicle owner, which in some cases exposes Disney although giving the injured person a scooter of his own plus unlimited fast passes for his party and paid medical care usually mends all the hurt feelings.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm
______________________________________________

One reason people in wheelchairs or on scooters sometimes get faster access to rides is that the CM's cut corners and don't inspect the Guest Assistance Card or don't follow all the rules.

 

[skiwee1]

Originally posted by seashoreCM
Supposed to stop and exchange ID's. Just as out in the street with a licensed vehicle.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm
______________________________________________

One reason people in wheelchairs or on scooters sometimes get faster access to rides is that the CM's cut corners and don't inspect the Guest Assistance Card or don't follow all the rules.

I don't think this guy would have been very likely to exchange IDs. He screamed at my DD to get out of his way. He was very nasty and seemed to think everyone should watch where he was going. We were standing for a parade and he backed up and nailed her.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

jjarman,
No problem. I agree with you. I did plan a day for them to go to Wonder Works & do the Laser Tag. We're also going to DQ, and I told DH that I can take WDW transportation back to the RV, when I wear down. We have an only child, and due to DH's job, we have spent many years away from family. These two things combined have made us a very close family. They would rather we all sit around together, while on vacation, than leave me alone all the time. I always encourage them to go, because I feel guilty about being the cause of them sitting around doing nothing. This has been going on for 9 yrs., and their used to it. When I say I have to rest, they happily follow me back to the RV or hotel, no complaints. DH says they won't go to WW without me, unless they can come and take me somewhere for lunch, then go back. It's kind of a lose, lose for us. I feel guilty that I can't do more, and they feel guilty about having fun without me. Sorry for the rambling.

 

[loriandmatt]

He screamed at my DD to get out of his way. He was very nasty and seemed to think everyone should watch where he was going. We were standing for a parade and he backed up and nailed her.

like i mentioned earlier in this thread......

Do the rules of courtesy apply to any able minded human being reguardless of physical capability?

a jurk is a jurk, irreguardless of ones physical ability.


- lori

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

I guess I am what you might call a fat guy -6'3" and 270. I am solid, but definitely have a "spare tire". I have always been bigger than other folks in my cohort, no matter what the age group at the time. Mostly it is because I eat too many rolls at supper time, too many Cheez-its as I watch TV some nights, and and exercise too little as a rule of thumb. Furthermore I don't jog or bike to work. Once I get to work I sit at a desk or ride in a car. There have been crossroads in my life when I could have chosen to exercise more, but have chosen other thngs instead. Used to be I got up early to go to the YMCA; now I get up early to pray. Used to be I would go to the YMCA in the evenings, but now I choose to spend that time with my kids while they are young. Don't get me wrong, these are not excuses. They are choices I have made in life. I will continue to do my situps and ride my exercise bike and hope that decreases the consequences I may have to pay some day on down the line

But I NEVER NEVER NEVER waste one iota of my time in Walt Disney World, of all places, wondering why some complete stranger is riding on a scooter. Who am I to judge!? I pity anyone who does. For goodness sakes, its the most magical place on earth! Lighten up and have a good time instead of worrying about somebody riding Dumbo 10 minutes before you get to.
You know what I'm thinking when I see someone on a scooter? Thank God that's not me today; cuz' it might be tomorrow. Let me live fully and richly and enjoy my mobility and the ability to draw a breath today, because tomorrow might never get here.

 

[jjarman]

Originally posted by tarheelmjfan
jjarman,
No problem. I agree with you. I did plan a day for them to go to Wonder Works & do the Laser Tag. We're also going to DQ, and I told DH that I can take WDW transportation back to the RV, when I wear down. We have an only child, and due to DH's job, we have spent many years away from family. These two things combined have made us a very close family. They would rather we all sit around together, while on vacation, than leave me alone all the time. I always encourage them to go, because I feel guilty about being the cause of them sitting around doing nothing. This has been going on for 9 yrs., and their used to it. When I say I have to rest, they happily follow me back to the RV or hotel, no complaints. DH says they won't go to WW without me, unless they can come and take me somewhere for lunch, then go back. It's kind of a lose, lose for us. I feel guilty that I can't do more, and they feel guilty about having fun without me. Sorry for the rambling.

Thanks for clearing that up. I really hope you didn't think I was being snippy or anything. I actually know people who will make the entire family bend to their will on vacations. DH got on mine and DS14 nerves our last trip. We were more of the commando type and DH wanted to take it easy. Needless to say, he is not going this trip. (his idea not mine).

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by tarheelmjfan
DH says they won't go to WW without me, unless they can come and take me somewhere for lunch, then go back. It's kind of a lose, lose for us. I feel guilty that I can't do more, and they feel guilty about having fun without me. Sorry for the rambling.

Sounds like a win/win situation for all involved. Sure you feel guilty for putting your family though your bad health, and I probably would too, but you all seem to have your heads on straight and your priorities in order. That's wonderful! We all need to work with what we have and not feel sorry for all the things we don't have...

T&B

 

[meandtheguys2]

Ohhhhh! So THIS is where the trolls went...

eta: You know, those fat people sure are rude! But I bet none of them lost their passes right before leaving home...

 

[tarheelmjfan]

jjarman,
I didn't think you were the least bit snippy.

Tigger&Belle,
I like your take on it much better. You're right, of course. I see many people who are much worse off than I, and I'm very thankful for my life's situation.

Zippa D Doodah,
You are so right. If only we could all see things your way.

 

[eternaldisneyfan]

**Please read all the way before commenting**

Everyone who comes to WDW deserves to have a good time without being judged. Kids need strollers and should have them. I bring my electric wheelchair that I have been confined to completely for 10 yrs. as does my sister. My mom brings hers. We rent a manual chair from home for my arthritic, enlarged heart grandma who works her butt off at home. I also have a trach. I bring this up because as a result I need suctioned (my airway becomes completely occluded and I can't breathe) and the suction machine can be noisy. Last Disneyland trip, a few times this happened during a show. I couldn't breathe, so yes, I turned on the noisy machine and got some nasty looks. And yes I apologized but I am not going to suffocate rather than make a little noise for 30 seconds or less. My point is, we don't know the reason for some of these disturbances. Instead of being critical, why can't we sympathize? And no, not pity or excuses, I despise pity. And my physical disabilities in no way justify being a jerk, nor have I ever used it as an excuse.

loriandmatt, of course everyone should be held to the rules of society. Everytime (very rarely) that one of us accidentally bumped someone (never serious injury) we stopped, made sure they were okay, and apologized profusely. My first post was a little misleading. I have no problem and diligently watch out to not run into people. I feel terribly guilty when I do as an accident. I get upset when people are rude and purposely cut in front of me (I still try not to hit them). I hope your not insinuating that every wheelchair or ECV user is rude/bitter and uses their limitations as an excuse. That simply is not true. It bothers me that people would think this. How much interaction do people have with the disabled? Certainly not enough to correctly represent all 56+thousand of them (the largest minority). It just makes me sad that someone might look at my chair and automatically think 'oh, she's bitter, she thinks the world owes her something.' This individual man was a jerk but his actions do not represent every ECV /wheelchair user.

Oh, I just thought I would explain the differences between an ECV and an electric wheelchair. ECV's have 3 wheels and the 3rd wheel has the control attached (the kind Disney rents). These are used, generally for people who still have the ability to walk and more strength. Electric wheelchairs (see my picture) are usually used for people who cannot walk at all or only do transfers. Usually the person has many affected areas. My muscle weakness affects every part of my body and greatly my respiratory, digestive, orthopedic, nerves, pain, etc. My wheelchair cost $36,000 because of all the specialized equipment. Electric wheelchairs Disney cannot rent because you can't get them without a prescription. So I can pretty much guarantee you that these aren't "fakers" or in a wheelchair "just because they're overweight" (is it really our business???). Also if it isn't a Disney ECV, it is most likely their own that they bought or got through insurance for at least in the thousands. They lugged it with them (not very convenient) because they most likely use it in their daily life and don't have the strength/stamina to walk to the gate to get one. Also manual chairs like Quickies with shorter backs, angled in wheels, and colored frames are definately not 'cheaters.' That narrows down the list of people who even could be 'cheating.' It is really none of our business. As far as I am concerned, the only cheaters are people who have no mobility problems (being overweight so you can't walk or can't breathe walking is a good reason to get one and NOT cheating) or weakness and rent a chair. A group of people who rent a manual chair to take turns in it are abusing the system. I just want to point out that on several trip reports people have mentioned that their legs/feet were tired/sore after walking in the park. Adding in a disability (muscle weakness, arthritis, MS, Parkinson's, brain tumor, etc. etc.) or even being overweight magnifies this discomfort. There are obviously disagreements whether or not being overweight is someone's 'fault' so I am not going to delve into that. The only thing I will say is that if they can't breathe or they're legs are tired after walking down mainstreet how are they supposed to enjoy WDW without an ECV??? It doesn't matter if you think it's "there fault", you don't know, maybe at that moment they are working to lose weight. Heck maybe they have already lost weight and are there rewarding themselves from this websites WISH program. Reguardless, they certainly suffer enough with health problems and public ridicule. Wheelchairs are not free to rent and like SueMN pointed out, there are very few wheelchair 'advantages.'

A little word on those 'advantages.' When our family rides a ride it takes atleast thirty minutes. On the rides that can accomodate chairs there is only one wheelchair car so we all have to take turns. On the few rides that we transfer to, we have to take turns because Dad has to carry us and help balance us. Also, it's not front of the line. You wait in a seperate line, at least ten minutes (usually longer), usually waiting for the wheelchair car or getting things set up, explaining needs to the CM like stopping the walkway, etc. So the average ride takes 30-45 minutes to get through without standing in the regular cue. How is this an 'advantage???' It seems more like leveling the playing field to me (I'll probably get flamed for that). Our daily routines take more time. All the medical care, breathing treatments, general getting ready etc. take 2-3 hours in the morning. I have to stop every 3 hours to take 15 minutes worth of breathing treatments. It takes us an hour to cycle through the bathroom, which happens every 2-3 hours. Frankly, I am worried that we will not get to enjoy WDW if we ever get a chance to go again.

I am irritated right now. Am I going to dwell on it and become jealous and hateful to everyone? For goodness sakes, no. We have had plenty of encounters with kind, considerate people. I just wanted to offer a different perspective. If anything, rude disabled people irk me probably more because I think it gives us all a bad image. My motto in life is to Have an Attitude of Gratitude. I am very thankful to have such a caring family, especially my father who sacrifices so I can enjoy life. Next year he will attend The University of the Pacific with me, to help. My wheelchair is one of the best things in my life. Without it I would have no life. My church and the scriptures are tremendous blessings. All my medicines that sustain me, this country, and having memories of visiting the happiest place on earth even more things to have gratitude for.

To close off this really long post, I will offer some tips to perhaps make your encounter with ECV/wheelchair user more pleasant. One very important thing, be careful not to bump the control, especially on electric wheelchairs (they're more sensitive). the chair will go flying, probably into you . Purses, elbows, and butts are some of the most common offenders. Watch out for backing up, I for one can't turn my head to see behind me. I start really slow and my dad helps, I listen for 'Stop!' Don't crowd the wheels. Sometimes on a crowded street people get right up against me. I am driving normally but they are so close that their foot gets between my wheels. This is especially true of ECV's because they take some room to turn. Please don't lean on the chair or use it for a footrest. I can feel every movement. Talk to me, don't ask people around me about me. I will watch out for you, please watch out for me (don't turn your head while walking, please )

With a little tolerance, patience, and understanding, we can all have a magical day!

Christamae

 

[Eeyore2003]

This thread makes me very sad. I walk around Disney World in awful pain. I take arthritis meds and wear patches on my knees. I'm embarrassed to even sit down and "take the edge off" because of some of the people on this thread. Now my fears are realized and I KNOW you're thinking those things about me. I know it sounds like a cop out to say it was from a med, but it WAS, and thank goodness for research and I am now on something else. I have lost 60# but have more to go. My husband tries to get me to use a scooter, but I don't because of being embarrassed. So maybe for every jerk that uses one and doesn't need it, think of all the people like me that would be in no pain using one, but won't. I'm sure it evens out.

My only other comment is to someone on the first page. My husband has been a physician for 25 years. It's not overweight people who have increased the price of health care. It's greedy people "at the top". It doesn't work to give people "guilt trips" to lose weight or blame them for a national problem they have no control over. Most of these people have enough problems of their own.

 

[seashoreCM]

Originally posted by skiwee1
I don't think this guy would have been very likely to exchange IDs. He screamed at my DD to get out of his way. He was very nasty and seemed to think everyone should watch where he was going. We were standing for a parade and he backed up and nailed her.

All the more reason to figure out some way, any way, to stop him. He specifically needed to be brought to justice.

 

[ctrabada]

I read this whole thread and felt compelled to write.... I don't know why... I am an overweight (50-60 lbs) 41-yr old woman who is otherwise in great health. I've tried everything in the world to lose weight... weight watchers, jenny craig, atkins, personal trainer, etc etc. And, yes, I admit it was my choice... I love food so I have no excuse. I've never needed a wheelchair or scooter and I thank God every day for giving me health. So... I don't look like a model... big deal... my daughter and husband think I'm beautiful because of what's inside.

Anyway, on the subject of scooters and such... I have often wondered why someone is in a scooter when I'm at WDW, but my wondering comes strictly out of curiosity and no other motive. Never have I felt pity or wondered about people's weight in scooters. As a matter of fact, I see people with disabilities in Disney and feel happy that they are enjoying the happiest place on earth and also feel thankful that I have my health because you never know when that can change. My mom, who's one of the most active women I know, is now struggling with arthritis. She tries to walk every day plus takes care of a sizeable garden (and I mean she used to mow the lawn and use hedge trimmers and she's not even 5'0 tall!--until I put my foot down and hired a landscaper which I pay because she refused to hire one... stubborn, that one). I know that I may suffer the same fate one day. It breaks my heart to see her in such pain and she's one of those who would walk until she could not take another step and totally refuse a wheelchair (very independent, my mom... did I say stubborn?).

I am rambling, I know, but I hate to see people get offended on these boards. It's really a nice place here and I love it. However, there are people who are sometimes, unknowingly, insensitive and hurt others because of the way they write something. It's happened to me a lot during my career. Sometimes we write without knowing how it can hurt or offend others. Sometimes we mean something and it comes across totally different because we are not able to impart feeling or intonation properly. Yes, there are the intentionally rude... it's a matter of probabilities... we are bound to get some people who are just jerks, period... what can you do? they're everywhere. And sometimes we jump to conclusions because we are reading with our own prejudices and opinions and translate what someone writes into what we "think" they're thinking. I know I'm plenty guilty of jumping to conclusions in many occasions.

Ugh, I'm still rambling. My point (yes, I have one!) is that sometimes we are curious, sometimes we are insensitive, and sometimes we just jump to conclusions.... I am glad I read all your opinions because it gave me new perspective and it reinforces the power of the Mouse... because regardless of our physical abilities... we all love Mickey. Thanks for reading.

 

[maxiesmom]

I would bet that everyone has been cut off or ran into by someone with a wheelchair or stroller at some point. The best thing we can do is try not to get angry, and try not to judge. Maybe that person is having problems that we know nothing about. I don't think people go thru Disney World with the intention of mowing down others. If someone is rude, say a little prayer for them and go on your way. Tolerance is a great thing!

 

[meandtheguys2]

You know, mean-hearted people trolling for trouble with rude posts should be ignored. The OP was on this board before whining about her lost tickets looking for help and compassion, but comes back trying to cause hurt and trouble.

Please don't feed the trolls.

Ignoring them makes them go away!

 

[Tigger&Belle]

It does make me wonder why the OP hasn't been back to this thread.

I also wonder what her definition is of "elderly". I know the older I get, the older I consider elderly.

T&B

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Eternaldisneyfan, I like your quote from Mattie Stepanek. He was quite a remarkable young man. My 11yo and I came upon his funeral precession last June when we were returning from a dr appointment. It was very touching to see so many people paying their respects to him--the entrance to the cemetary had big ladder trucks forming an arch.

We should all have the strength and attitude that he had!

Thank you for your explanations about the differences between electric wheelchairs and EVC's. Many people are curious and with some knowledge are very understanding. I believe that most people have good intentions and do not sit in judgement of others. Your father sounds like a wonderful man, BTW!

T&B

 

[SueM in MN]

Originally posted by eternaldisneyfan
Electric wheelchairs Disney cannot rent because you can't get them without a prescription.......
One very important thing, be careful not to bump the control, especially on electric wheelchairs (they're more sensitive). the chair will go flying, probably into you . Purses, elbows, and butts are some of the most common offenders.....
Don't crowd the wheels. Sometimes on a crowded street people get right up against me. I am driving normally but they are so close that their foot gets between my wheels. This is especially true of ECV's because they take some room to turn. Please don't lean on the chair or use it for a footrest. I can feel every movement. Talk to me, don't ask people around me about me. I will watch out for you, please watch out for me (don't turn your head while walking, please )

With a little tolerance, patience, and understanding, we can all have a magical day!

Christamae

You do need a prescription to buy a power wheelchair, but not to rent one. The only places to rent one are the off-site rental places, though and they will only rent one to people who are experienced power wheelchair drivers. They don't rent them unless you already have one because (even the ones without a lot of extras) cost a lot of money, they are not as easy to drive as they look and they need to be individually set up for each person.
When we looked into renting one for DD (we we afraid to travel by air with her power wheelchair), we needed to provide the company with a lot of information in order to set up the chair correctly (seat length and width, all the parameters set up in her controller - including the top speed at each setting, how much torque, how quickly it accelates and stops - there are about 8 possible computer settings for each program and she has 4 programs on her controller). So, as you can see from this and what eternaldisneyfan posted, those power wheelchairs are not casually rented out.
And, the joysticks are VERY sensitive. They are made so that someone with very little strength can still control them. Try turning on a light switch with just your little finger and not using your whole strength. Joysticks take much less than that and a small movement of the joystick translates into a large movement of the wheelchair. So, a purse that swings and hits into my DD's joystick can really send the wheelchair flying. And the joysticks are fragile and expensive to repair. They can get broken by something hitting into them (or someone backing up while taking a picture).

I have gotten my feet driven over by DD's power wheelchair (usually when my feet were too close and she could not tell where they were). I have also driven over them myself when driving DD's power wheelchair for her from the side (and, trust me, I don't run over my own feet purposely).
A wheelchair needs a circle at least 5 feet in diameter to turn (much more space than most people allow a wheelchair). We've had people in line behind us dart into DD's turning space as she was turning because to them it was just empty space in the line. Someone doing that though (especially while the wheelchair is moving) is in danger of getting their feet run over.

And, one final thing. People assume that power wheelchairs and ecvs have brakes. They don't. They stop when the person driving them is no longer applying that "command" to go forward. So, they don't stop quickly and there is no way to make them stop any faster (by stepping on the brakes hard like you might in a car).
So, they stop because they are not being told to go. If the ecv or power wheelchair is going fast, it will take longer to come to a stop.

 

[loriandmatt]

eternaldisneyfan

loriandmatt, of course everyone should be held to the rules of society. Everytime (very rarely) that one of us accidentally bumped someone (never serious injury) we stopped, made sure they were okay, and apologized profusely. My first post was a little misleading. I have no problem and diligently watch out to not run into people. I feel terribly guilty when I do as an accident. I get upset when people are rude and purposely cut in front of me (I still try not to hit them). I hope your not insinuating that every wheelchair or ECV user is rude/bitter and uses their limitations as an excuse. That simply is not true. It bothers me that people would think this.

Unfortunatley because text on a web page can not translate a persons true thought...i want to clarify that i in no way indicated or wanted to get the idea across that all persons using wheelchairs or other forms of assistance are rude/bitter. Most certainly not. The ones that are, are that way because of who they are, not because of any ability they do or do not have.

There are bitter/rude eggs in every catagory of human existance. MY point was that rude/bitter people are rude/bitter people. It dosen't matter if they are mobile with or without assistance.

So sorry if you misinterpreted that and took offense.

(by the way - if you were to turn your pump on in the middle of a show i was attending, not only would i understand, but would explain it to my kids when we left so they would grow up to be understanding of others needs.)


again - sorry for the miscommunication - lori