Nutty rumor - is it true?

[diamondpixienc]

I hope this is just a rumor

 

[safetymom]

It's not a rumor. It has already happened at Pecos Bill.

 

[Golf4food]

It's not a rumor. It has already happened at Pecos Bill.

Guess we won't be going back to Peco's Bills, then. Not that we ever did much anyway - we're CHH people mostly. But I have a bad neck/back and cannot sit on anything without a back for very long or I am in extreme pain. I suffer through some of the shows that have benches with no backs but they do cause a lot of pain in the process and breaks for lunch/dinner are what get me through the day. If they take all of the chairs out of the CS locations we'll have to decide to perhaps just eat a TS lunch and leave the park in the late afternoon to have dinner off property where they actually have chair backs...

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Guess we won't be going back to Peco's Bills, then. Not that we ever did much anyway - we're CHH people mostly. But I have a bad neck/back and cannot sit on anything without a back for very long or I am in extreme pain. I suffer through some of the shows that have benches with no backs but they do cause a lot of pain in the process and breaks for lunch/dinner are what get me through the day. If they take all of the chairs out of the CS locations we'll have to decide to perhaps just eat a TS lunch and leave the park in the late afternoon to have dinner off property where they actually have chair backs...

I have to concur about seats with backs.

I tire very easily and simply cannot go in commando mode. I have to sit and rest often. Luckily, I have the most patient hubby on the planet.

At Christmas I was in a scooter because of an ankle injury. The seatback support was magical! I still tired - no way around that. But it was so comfortable --- except for that nasty achilles tendon!

Some of us still want to visit Disney parks even though we can no longer cover the ground we once did. Seats are important....not to mention the wonderful LITTLE visitors who could fall off a bench or stool.

 

[dizfan]

This one is going to come back to haunt the executive who made this decision.

If Disney does this to many restaurants, we'll start vacationing elsewhere. Sorry, but a family that's been going t Disney parks since the 60's will be forced to go elsewhere.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I have a hard time believing this...the practicality of replacing maybe 5,000 - 10,000 chairs in all the CS restaurants, making the guests more uncomfortable just to make it so that they'll stay in the restaurant for shorter time? So, at $100 a chair, that $1 million. And what's the point, it's not like guests can't get seats at most CS restaurants.

Disney's not this dumb. Stupid rumor made up by a hater.

SkierPete

Except its already happened at Pecos Bills. No one is sure if this is going to be just in the MK or property wide. They are supposed to be doing Cosmic rays next. And I doubt they pay $100 a chair. Those chairs are $20 tops, ordered in that large bulk.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I have to concur about seats with backs.

I tire very easily and simply cannot go in commando mode. I have to sit and rest often. Luckily, I have the most patient hubby on the planet.

At Christmas I was in a scooter because of an ankle injury. The seatback support was magical! I still tired - no way around that. But it was so comfortable --- except for that nasty achilles tendon!

Some of us still want to visit Disney parks even though we can no longer cover the ground we once did. Seats are important....not to mention the wonderful LITTLE visitors who could fall off a bench or stool.

Make sure to lodge a complaint at guest services.

 

[Colleen27]

Make sure to lodge a complaint at guest services.

You know, we don't even eat counter service but if this rumor does turn out to be fact and Cosmic Rays is changed over by the time we're there, I'll absolutely take the time to do just that.

 

[Chuck S]

You know, we don't even eat counter service but if this rumor does turn out to be fact and Cosmic Rays is changed over by the time we're there, I'll absolutely take the time to do just that.

Curious as to why? If you don't eat counter service, how would this affect you?

 

[yitbos96bb]

Curious as to why? If you don't eat counter service, how would this affect you?

Personally, I think its a stupid policy and if it gets it changed I'll try to help out those who are effected by it. We eat more TS than QS, but we do eat QS. It really is a poorly thought out policy and the only way that it might be reversed is if people stop acting like sheeple, step out of the flock and express their displeasure. I firmly believe that's why the 180 day ADRs returned.

 

[Golf4food]

Curious as to why? If you don't eat counter service, how would this affect you?

It could drive more people into TS locations, making the PP have to wait longer for a table or not get one at all?

 

[Colleen27]

Curious as to why? If you don't eat counter service, how would this affect you?

Personally, I think its a stupid policy and if it gets it changed I'll try to help out those who are effected by it. We eat more TS than QS, but we do eat QS. It really is a poorly thought out policy and the only way that it might be reversed is if people stop acting like sheeple, step out of the flock and express their displeasure.

Exactly. This specific change doesn't effect me right now but the short sightedness of some of these decisions does impact the overall guest experience, and the fact that so many people just go along with whatever changes Disney makes sends the message to the bigwigs that they can continue the corner-cutting without upsetting consumers.

And from a more selfish point of view, we don't eat counter service right now. We did in the past, when our trip budgets were tighter, and we could end up in that position again in the future. If that day comes, I don't want to have to worry about seating for my youngest (barely 1 now, so still several years from sitting safely on a stool).

 

[FireDancer]

I seem to be in the minority but have no problem with this. I have a backless seat in my office because it is good for the core and posture. McDonald's found out long ago that having uncomfortable seats is good for turnover. The reason McDonald's had those hard plastic seats back in the 80's and 90's was because they want you to sit and eat and then get the heck out because you aren't too comfortable.

I don't know if they are still like that because it would require a gun to my head before I walk into a McDonald's but I wouldn't be surprised.

I think there should be some seats with backs for those with disabilities that keep them from using stools but I have no issue with this. I usually sit up without leaning back on the chairs anyway. Most people will not really notice. The vast majority of guests don't go onto message boards and probably won't even noticed the change because they haven't been there in 5 years and can't remember what the chairs were like when they were there back then.

 

[Chuck S]

Exactly. This specific change doesn't effect me right now but the short sightedness of some of these decisions does impact the overall guest experience, and the fact that so many people just go along with whatever changes Disney makes sends the message to the bigwigs that they can continue the corner-cutting without upsetting consumers.

And from a more selfish point of view, we don't eat counter service right now. We did in the past, when our trip budgets were tighter, and we could end up in that position again in the future. If that day comes, I don't want to have to worry about seating for my youngest (barely 1 now, so still several years from sitting safely on a stool).

But there are other options that could, if they feel forced to not switch out the chairs.

For instance, if Pecos Bill's saw a 10% increase in sales after the switch, then Cosmic Ray's is also under pressure to match it. Now, if this rumor is true, and they were planning to switch CosRay over to stool type seating, but are now barraged with guest complaints about the stools, what are their options?


Reduce overhead and operating expenses.

Fewer CMs to prepare, serve, take orders and clean tables.

Reduce air conditioning and power consumption. Save power by eliminating the "show" and filling that area with seats.

Reduce food costs by further lowering quality and reducing available selection.

Increase cash prices even more, and further increase the DDP costs. $4.50 beverages, anyone?

Eliminate the "fixins."

Which would you choose?

 

[tjkraz]

...the fact that so many people just go along with whatever changes Disney makes sends the message to the bigwigs that they can continue the corner-cutting without upsetting consumers.

I resent the implication that those in favor of the move are simply lemmings towing the company line. As I've said repeatedly, I was very frustrated with our inability to find seats at several QS restaurants earlier this year. And if this move helps get people out of the restaurant quicker, I'm all for it.

As is the case with many rumors, we never seem to get the big picture before folks start with the knee-jerk reactions. Among the important unanswered questions are:

1. How many restaurants are slated for this conversion?
2. Will all of the seats be replaced with stools or just some?

Many Disney restaurants have booths and I personally doubt that the booths are being ripped-out in favor of stools. And I would also question whether locations which are rarely/never full will be switched-over. There's no financial or guest-service justification for adding stools to a location with low crowds.

I would swear that we have eaten at a Disney restaurant with stools, but I can't quite put my finger on it. My gut says that it was Pecos Bill's, but our last meal there was in early 2008. So if that's the place, stools have been in place for more than a year now. If it was some other location during our June trip, the presence of the stools didn't even register until reading this thread.

BTW, the "stools" that I recall were square platforms about 24x24" in size sitting the same height off the floor as a normal chair. We aren't talking about uncomfortable 3' high round bar stools.

 

[Chuck S]

I would swear that we have eaten at a Disney restaurant with stools, but I can't quite put my finger on it. My gut says that it was Pecos Bill's, but our last meal there was in early 2008. So if that's the place, stools have been in place for more than a year now. If it was some other location during our June trip, the presence of the stools didn't even register until reading this thread.

BTW, the "stools" that I recall were square platforms about 24x24" in size sitting the same height off the floor as a normal chair. We aren't talking about uncomfortable 3' high round bar stools.

I believe Pecos Bill's had those type of stools in that timeframe, too. I only remember eating there once, and it was either 2007 or 2008, and I seem to remember sitting on a stool...no big deal. And I know I sat on a stool for our Picnic in the Park meal at AK.

 

[Colleen27]

I resent the implication that those in favor of the move are simply lemmings towing the company line. As I've said repeatedly, I was very frustrated with our inability to find seats at several QS restaurants earlier this year. And if this move helps get people out of the restaurant quicker, I'm all for it.

As is the case with many rumors, we never seem to get the big picture before folks start with the knee-jerk reactions. Among the important unanswered questions are:

1. How many restaurants are slated for this conversion?
2. Will all of the seats be replaced with stools or just some?

Many Disney restaurants have booths and I personally doubt that the booths are being ripped-out in favor of stools. And I would also question whether locations which are rarely/never full will be switched-over. There's no financial or guest-service justification for adding stools to a location with low crowds.

I would swear that we have eaten at a Disney restaurant with stools, but I can't quite put my finger on it. My gut says that it was Pecos Bill's, but our last meal there was in early 2008. So if that's the place, stools have been in place for more than a year now. If it was some other location during our June trip, the presence of the stools didn't even register until reading this thread.

BTW, the "stools" that I recall were square platforms about 24x24" in size sitting the same height off the floor as a normal chair. We aren't talking about uncomfortable 3' high round bar stools.

First of all, this is all hypothetical, which is why I've prefaced so much of what I've said with "If this turns out to be true..." But that's half the fun of these boards, isn't it - to speculate and try to understand the behind-the-scenes thinking of running something as massive and fabulous as Disney?

I don't think people who are in favor of this (or any other specific) change Disney makes are lemmings. The "sheeple" comment that I quoted was pretty specific, I thought, to the people who hate the changes being made but accept them because "its Disney". I really don't understand that - silently accepting a lesser experience for the same (or more) travel dollars. If some place that I give as much of my money to as I do to Disney makes a change I don't like, I'm going to voice my opinion on that change. Not on a message board (well, not *only* on a message board ), but to the people charged with customer relations at that business.

Second, I don't oppose the idea of less comfortable chairs. Finding seating is one of the reasons I dislike and ultimately quit eating counter service meals at Disney. But you can find some pretty darned uncomfortable chairs with backs. Case in point - the metal cafe-style seating at Main Street Bakery. It certainly isn't comfortable enough to encourage you to linger. In fact, the seating there is uncomfortable enough to discourage lingering over one's meal to enjoy the air conditioning. But those chairs still have backs. My objection is specifically to the backless seating, which is just a step too far IMO. Go with less comfortable chairs to move people in and out quicker, but do it in a way that makes sense for your target demographic, which includes a lot of young kids. Cosmic Rays is a great example - instead of stools, those uncomfortable, retro-modern molded plastic chairs would be uncomfortable *and* safer than stools for toddlers/preschoolers, plus they'd fit the theme of the place.

I do think you're right about Pecos Bills having stools all along, which is why in my first couple of posts on this thread I was (and remain) skeptical as to this being a property-wide strategy. IIRC from our first family trip in 2005, the stools at the few open tables at Pecos Bills were why we walked over to the seating area of the then-closed El Pirata to find a table.

 

[Colleen27]

I seem to be in the minority but have no problem with this. I have a backless seat in my office because it is good for the core and posture. McDonald's found out long ago that having uncomfortable seats is good for turnover. The reason McDonald's had those hard plastic seats back in the 80's and 90's was because they want you to sit and eat and then get the heck out because you aren't too comfortable.

I don't know if they are still like that because it would require a gun to my head before I walk into a McDonald's but I wouldn't be surprised.

Wandering off on a tangent...

Our McDs has taken the exact opposite strategy - they have comfy chairs, free newspapers, a few armchairs in view of the kids' play area, free refills, free wi-fi. As a consequence, there are several groups that meet there - a moms of preschoolers playgroup, a senior citizens book club, etc. According to the owner, who is a friend of our family, he's done much, much better with a dining area that encourages repeat visitors than he did with the in-and-out policy. And it has worked on me; I've been known to pick up Happy Meals and let the kids burn off some energy in the play structure on cold winter days, while I sit with a cup of coffee and my laptop even though I don't eat McD's food at all.

I know none of that doesn't really applies to Disney, but I just thought it was an interesting note to your observations of McD's seating strategies.

 

[FireDancer]

Wandering off on a tangent...

Our McDs has taken the exact opposite strategy - they have comfy chairs, free newspapers, a few armchairs in view of the kids' play area, free refills, free wi-fi. As a consequence, there are several groups that meet there - a moms of preschoolers playgroup, a senior citizens book club, etc. According to the owner, who is a friend of our family, he's done much, much better with a dining area that encourages repeat visitors than he did with the in-and-out policy. And it has worked on me; I've been known to pick up Happy Meals and let the kids burn off some energy in the play structure on cold winter days, while I sit with a cup of coffee and my laptop even though I don't eat McD's food at all.

I know none of that doesn't really applies to Disney, but I just thought it was an interesting note to your observations of McD's seating strategies.

This is a good example of the cafe culture and works very well...outside of an amusement park. In the park they want you to get your food, eat, and get the heck out. In the cafe culture there is an emphasis placed on lingering and drawing in crowds. It is quite different.

 

[DC7800]

Now, if this rumor is true, and they were planning to switch CosRay over to stool type seating, but are now barraged with guest complaints about the stools, what are their options?

They maintain their existing standards. You don't compromise the guest experience for a marginal (at best) increase in profit. Maybe that means the typical guest pays an average 50 cents more for their meal ($4.50 beverages is way too much; I get your point, but the difference isn't really that big), or perhaps you just have to accept very slightly higher operating costs for Cosmic Rays than Pecos Bill (pleasing the customer through a pleasant dining environment is far more important, in the overall scheme of things, than nickel & dime them to death or aggravating them about a lot of little things they hardly notice, but which add up to create a less than "magical" day in the park).

You can only go on cheapening the guest experience for so long - and we are way past that point already - before they notice and dine (or vacation) elsewhere.