Nurses and Patients' Rights

[luvmy3jewels]

After many years of trying and multiple pregnancy losses, my sister delivered a premature baby (2 1/2 months early) two weeks ago. The baby was doing well in a well known children's hospital NICU until this past weekend when things took a very serious turn for the worse. The baby had to have emergency surgery on Monday and we were told that the following 72 hours would be critical for her.

When I went to visit them in the NICU last night, I immediately sensed tension and found out that my sister and her husband were really upset with the nurses. Apparently, a nurse in training (she is 12 weeks in the program) was the one tending to the baby yesterday. They said that she had acted very nervous all day and had constantly fumbled with medicines, vent tubes, iv lines, etc and seemed very unsure of herself. She was supposed to be supervised by another RN in the unit, but he was not paying attention to what was going on most of the day and just sat on a stool in the middle of the room. My sister had approached the charge nurse and had requested that more supervision be provided over the nurse in training, but all that request seemed to do was to cause a great deal of animosity towards her and her husband from male nurse that was supposed to be supervising. When I was there he was sitting on the stool with his arms crossed glaring at my sister. Whereas in the past the nurse was constantly updating and talking to my sister about how the baby was doing and what they were doing to her, this time there was just silence and hostility.

After the shift change last night, they once again approached the charge nurse and requested that the baby be assigned a different nurse for today's shift. They were told that the male RN that was "supervising" the baby's care had specifically requested that he be assigned my niece (my sister believes he did this out of spite). That nurse told them that they had been "informed wrong" (by the surgeon) and that every baby in the NICU is critical and they don't allow parents to pick the nurse they want. This is understandable to a certain extent. However, it is a very large NICU and given the circumstances shouldn't my sister have the right to request that a different nurse be assigned?

The baby's parents are already under a tremendous amount of stress not knowing if she is going to pull through this and then to have the added stress of the nurse situation is almost intolerable. Thanks for any advice anyone may have on this subject.

 

[golfgal]

Maybe the laws in NY are different but you most certainly can request a different nurse here. Have them call the patient advocate at the hospital for assistance. They should have the numbers posted all over the place (elevators especially).

 

[npmommie]

After many years of trying and multiple pregnancy losses, my sister delivered a premature baby (2 1/2 months early) two weeks ago. The baby was doing well in a well known children's hospital NICU until this past weekend when things took a very serious turn for the worse. The baby had to have emergency surgery on Monday and we were told that the following 72 hours would be critical for her.

When I went to visit them in the NICU last night, I immediately sensed tension and found out that my sister and her husband were really upset with the nurses. Apparently, a nurse in training (she is 12 weeks in the program) was the one tending to the baby yesterday. They said that she had acted very nervous all day and had constantly fumbled with medicines, vent tubes, iv lines, etc and seemed very unsure of herself. She was supposed to be supervised by another RN in the unit, but he was not paying attention to what was going on most of the day and just sat on a stool in the middle of the room. My sister had approached the charge nurse and had requested that more supervision be provided over the nurse in training, but all that request seemed to do was to cause a great deal of animosity towards her and her husband from male nurse that was supposed to be supervising. When I was there he was sitting on the stool with his arms crossed glaring at my sister. Whereas in the past the nurse was constantly updating and talking to my sister about how the baby was doing and what they were doing to her, this time there was just silence and hostility.

After the shift change last night, they once again approached the charge nurse and requested that the baby be assigned a different nurse for today's shift. They were told that the male RN that was "supervising" the baby's care had specifically requested that he be assigned my niece (my sister believes he did this out of spite). That nurse told them that they had been "informed wrong" (by the surgeon) and that every baby in the NICU is critical and they don't allow parents to pick the nurse they want. This is understandable to a certain extent. However, it is a very large NICU and given the circumstances shouldn't my sister have the right to request that a different nurse be assigned?

The baby's parents are already under a tremendous amount of stress not knowing if she is going to pull through this and then to have the added stress of the nurse situation is almost intolerable. Thanks for any advice anyone may have on this subject.

Your sister has EVERY RIGHT to refuse a student nurse in the care of her baby in that NICU.
Where was the school nursing clinical supervisor? normally they are right there on the unit too most times.
she can also speak to them.
she should inform the nursing supervisor on duty for the hospital that she does not want a student caring for her baby. done deal.


Speaking from experience, yes it can be nerve wracking when you are new to nursing, you are being watched, and you know what to do but yes still a little unsure.
but if the patient is in any way uncomfortable with a student they certainly can refuse.

 

[npmommie]

I forgot to address the male nurse.

again they most certainly can request that a certain nurse not take care of their baby.
it doesn't matter if HE wants to care for the baby what matters is what THEY want.
and yes call the nursing supervisor, the patient advocate, go up the chain.
and don't stop.
this ticks me off just reading about it.
hugs to your sister.

 

[XYSRUS]

Call the ombudsman if you cannot get a straight answer from the charge nurse.

 

[daughtersrus]

After many years of trying and multiple pregnancy losses, my sister delivered a premature baby (2 1/2 months early) two weeks ago. The baby was doing well in a well known children's hospital NICU until this past weekend when things took a very serious turn for the worse. The baby had to have emergency surgery on Monday and we were told that the following 72 hours would be critical for her.

When I went to visit them in the NICU last night, I immediately sensed tension and found out that my sister and her husband were really upset with the nurses. Apparently, a nurse in training (she is 12 weeks in the program) was the one tending to the baby yesterday. They said that she had acted very nervous all day and had constantly fumbled with medicines, vent tubes, iv lines, etc and seemed very unsure of herself. She was supposed to be supervised by another RN in the unit, but he was not paying attention to what was going on most of the day and just sat on a stool in the middle of the room. My sister had approached the charge nurse and had requested that more supervision be provided over the nurse in training, but all that request seemed to do was to cause a great deal of animosity towards her and her husband from male nurse that was supposed to be supervising. When I was there he was sitting on the stool with his arms crossed glaring at my sister. Whereas in the past the nurse was constantly updating and talking to my sister about how the baby was doing and what they were doing to her, this time there was just silence and hostility.

After the shift change last night, they once again approached the charge nurse and requested that the baby be assigned a different nurse for today's shift. They were told that the male RN that was "supervising" the baby's care had specifically requested that he be assigned my niece (my sister believes he did this out of spite). That nurse told them that they had been "informed wrong" (by the surgeon) and that every baby in the NICU is critical and they don't allow parents to pick the nurse they want. This is understandable to a certain extent. However, it is a very large NICU and given the circumstances shouldn't my sister have the right to request that a different nurse be assigned?

The baby's parents are already under a tremendous amount of stress not knowing if she is going to pull through this and then to have the added stress of the nurse situation is almost intolerable. Thanks for any advice anyone may have on this subject.

Every hospital that my DD has been in has a "patients rights" sign posted in the room and sometimes at the entrances and elevators. I would suggest that you DS contact the patient advocate at the hospital and explain the situation. He/she should be able to intervene on their behalf.

Our prayers are with your family.

 

[smkiya]

After many years of trying and multiple pregnancy losses, my sister delivered a premature baby (2 1/2 months early) two weeks ago. The baby was doing well in a well known children's hospital NICU until this past weekend when things took a very serious turn for the worse. The baby had to have emergency surgery on Monday and we were told that the following 72 hours would be critical for her.

When I went to visit them in the NICU last night, I immediately sensed tension and found out that my sister and her husband were really upset with the nurses. Apparently, a nurse in training (she is 12 weeks in the program) was the one tending to the baby yesterday. They said that she had acted very nervous all day and had constantly fumbled with medicines, vent tubes, iv lines, etc and seemed very unsure of herself. She was supposed to be supervised by another RN in the unit, but he was not paying attention to what was going on most of the day and just sat on a stool in the middle of the room. My sister had approached the charge nurse and had requested that more supervision be provided over the nurse in training, but all that request seemed to do was to cause a great deal of animosity towards her and her husband from male nurse that was supposed to be supervising. When I was there he was sitting on the stool with his arms crossed glaring at my sister. Whereas in the past the nurse was constantly updating and talking to my sister about how the baby was doing and what they were doing to her, this time there was just silence and hostility.

After the shift change last night, they once again approached the charge nurse and requested that the baby be assigned a different nurse for today's shift. They were told that the male RN that was "supervising" the baby's care had specifically requested that he be assigned my niece (my sister believes he did this out of spite). That nurse told them that they had been "informed wrong" (by the surgeon) and that every baby in the NICU is critical and they don't allow parents to pick the nurse they want. This is understandable to a certain extent. However, it is a very large NICU and given the circumstances shouldn't my sister have the right to request that a different nurse be assigned?

The baby's parents are already under a tremendous amount of stress not knowing if she is going to pull through this and then to have the added stress of the nurse situation is almost intolerable. Thanks for any advice anyone may have on this subject.

A student nurse, 12 weeks into the program would not be working in a NICU for a 12 hour shift... In fact, they wouldn't be in the NICU at all. I think it was probably a new nurse on orientation. Usually orientation lasts anywhere from 8-16 weeks and then the nurse is on their own. After 12 weeks of orientation, the nurse is just about ready to work on their own without a preceptor (the male nurse), so really at that point he is just there for support.

I can speak from experience that when you're new, it's a little difficult trying to balance patient care and family care. Maybe the new nurse was overwhelmed with the lack of confidence your sister had in her. She could have become flustered trying to please her and care for the baby. Even when you're not new, this can happen.

I agree that EVERY baby in the NICU is critical until they are transferred to a lower acuity unit.

The male nurse acted inappropriately. I would have requested a new nurse also. It is possible that because of staffing, another nurse was not available, but that whole situation should have been handled differently. We understand that people are not always "themselves" when a family member is critically ill, but that does not give that nurse the right to act out.

 

[Jennasis]

Wuh oh...my cousin is a nurse at a North Carolina coastal hospital. Hope he wasn't the one causing the problem.

 

[sbell111]

They should speak to the patient advocate or their doctors.

 

[focusondisney]

Hi! Sorry your family is going thru this. Prayers to your niece or nephew.


I am a maternity nurse for over 30 years, a charge nurse for most of them. I am a permanent charge nurse on my unit. No matter what the situation or what unit , the patient (or in this case, the parent) has the right to refuse a particular nurse/ caregiver. The charge nurse should have taken this request more seriously. If the parent refuses a nurse & then the nurse comes in & touches the patient, it could basically be considered assault. Think about it. You say " I don't want you to touch me" & then the person touches you, it is assault. Hospital administration knows this & so should the charge nurse.

Your sister should start by asking to speak to the nurse manager for the unit. No need to go straight to patient advocate or administration unless the unit manager is not available. I think just explaining to the manager what happened will get the the result they need. The nurse manager wants them to get the care the baby needs & wants the parents to be happy.

All that said, the previous poster was correct about it probably being an " orient" & not a student nurse. Our orients are left alone by 12 weeks into their orientation, too. The supervising nurse was absolutely wrong in his attitude to your sister however. And the charge nurse added to the problem. I hope the baby does better & things go more smoothly for the family.

 

[tlbwriter]

A student nurse, 12 weeks into the program would not be working in a NICU for a 12 hour shift... In fact, they wouldn't be in the NICU at all. I think it was probably a new nurse on orientation.

I assumed they meant she was 12 weeks into clinicals. In my hospital, they make a big deal about the student nurses - you have to give permission for them to care for you, they have different name tags, etc. It would be hard to confuse a student nurse with a new nurse. But then again, I'm sure the baby's parents were very distracted, so it could happen.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Oh my goodness, that must be a horror for your sister. The male nurse is being very unprofessional. Your sister and her husband are under incredible strain and the nurses should be there as a comfort, not a cause or more upset. I would absolutely go to hospital administrators over the situation and your child's Dr's.

What kind of hospital allows nurses to intimidate parents of sick children? In a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit no less?

 

[daisyduck123]

Every hospital that my DD has been in has a "patients rights" sign posted in the room and sometimes at the entrances and elevators.

I am typing from my DD's hospital room at Children's Nat'l Medical Center. After reading this thread, I got up and looked....no "Patient's Rights" signage posted anywhere here.

You all have aroused my curiosity and I will go check the elevators later when I go down to the cafeteria...but we've been here almost a week and I've never noticed one yet. Hmmm...

OP....I will say a prayer for your precious niece.

 

[tlbwriter]

I am typing from my DD's hospital room at Children's Nat'l Medical Center. After reading this thread, I got up and looked....no "Patient's Rights" signage posted anywhere here.

You all have aroused my curiosity and I will go check the elevators later when I go down to the cafeteria...but we've been here almost a week and I've never noticed one yet. Hmmm...

OP....I will say a prayer for your precious niece.

I'm sorry you're in that situation. Assuming you're in the hospital in Washington DC, I was able to find the patient rights online. They don't say anything about refusing care from specific staff members, but there are other rights that would address this situation, assuming the OP's family's hospital has similar rights. OP, if you know the name of the hospital, why don't you see if you can find their patient rights online? Maybe you can save your sister some legwork.

 

[smkiya]

I assumed they meant she was 12 weeks into clinicals. In my hospital, they make a big deal about the student nurses - you have to give permission for them to care for you, they have different name tags, etc. It would be hard to confuse a student nurse with a new nurse. But then again, I'm sure the baby's parents were very distracted, so it could happen.

When I was in nursing school our time in the NICU was short. We were not allowed to do anything without the nurse by our side. I've never heard of a nursing school spending 12 weeks of clinicals in a NICU. When we were on the NICU, even with the instructor present, the nurses were on top of us because they were SICK babies and we were, well, students.

Nursing school primarily focuses on the adult patient. Most of our clinical rotations involve adult patient care. We do have clinicals in specialty areas ( labor and delivery, mother baby, pediatrics, mental health) but not much. The NICU is such a specialized area that it doesn't make sense to spend many weeks there as most new nurses work in adult care. If a new nurse specializes right out of nursing school, then the unit they work on will provide an in-depth orientation which is usually longer than most.

 

[daisyduck123]

I'm sorry you're in that situation. Assuming you're in the hospital in Washington DC, I was able to find the patient rights online. They don't say anything about refusing care from specific staff members, but there are other rights that would address this situation, assuming the OP's family's hospital has similar rights. OP, if you know the name of the hospital, why don't you see if you can find their patient rights online? Maybe you can save your sister some legwork.

Yes...you are correct. We are in Washington D.C.

What a great idea...looking online. Yes, the OP should definitely look into that!

 

[focusondisney]

I am typing from my DD's hospital room at Children's Nat'l Medical Center. After reading this thread, I got up and looked....no "Patient's Rights" signage posted anywhere here.

You all have aroused my curiosity and I will go check the elevators later when I go down to the cafeteria...but we've been here almost a week and I've never noticed one yet. Hmmm...

OP....I will say a prayer for your precious niece.

Our hospital gives you a copy with admission paperwork. It is posted near our nurse's station in the hall where patients /family /visitors can see it. It is not posted in the room or elevators. Look thru the piles of paper you were probably given when your daughter was admitted. Prayers to you & your DD.

 

[Hannathy]

I will add tho that it angers me when people want to be at a teaching hospital because they are the best then don't want to be "taught" on.

If you don't want students working on you go to a non-teaching hospital.

If that truly was a student nurse her instructor would have been monitoring her more because she is working under that instructors RN and they do not want to loose their license cause she screws up. Or get sued.

Also in an ICU sometimes nurses are assigned to patients because they are better with that particular illness or surgery and I think charge nurses should be allowed to do this over and above who the parents want.
Just because Mary has great bed side manner and Bob doesn't if Bob has his certification in whatever my child has that is who should be caring for my critically ill child not the nurse who I think is nicer.

 

[tlbwriter]

When I was in nursing school our time in the NICU was short. We were not allowed to do anything without the nurse by our side. I've never heard of a nursing school spending 12 weeks of clinicals in a NICU. When we were on the NICU, even with the instructor present, the nurses were on top of us because they were SICK babies and we were, well, students.

I meant 12 weeks into clinicals overall, not a 12 week rotation in NICU.

 

[npmommie]

I will add tho that it angers me when people want to be at a teaching hospital because they are the best then don't want to be "taught" on.

If you don't want students working on you go to a non-teaching hospital.

If that truly was a student nurse her instructor would have been monitoring her more because she is working under that instructors RN and they do not want to loose their license cause she screws up. Or get sued.

Also in an ICU sometimes nurses are assigned to patients because they are better with that particular illness or surgery and I think charge nurses should be allowed to do this over and above who the parents want.
Just because Mary has great bed side manner and Bob doesn't if Bob has his certification in whatever my child has that is who should be caring for my critically ill child not the nurse who I think is nicer.

any Nurse working in NICU who is worth her license is well qualified and good with anything thrown their way.
I stand by if the parents do not want a particular nurse then they should not have that nurse if there is another alternative.
it does no good to have upset parents and a stressed nurse.