Nothings FREE with free dining???

[Tiger926]

I don't understand the last statment that this isn't right. Why isn't it right? It's a promotion. There's nothing misleading in the name as the dining plan is included at no extra cost. Disney is also offering other promotions as well which may be better for some people (the OP for example). They don't actually have to offer any promotions at all (though if they want to fill rooms during value season and a weak economy then it's a very good idea). They're not telling people they have to choose the more expensive promotion. What's not right about it?

ITA! As an English teacher it drives me nuts when people say that free dining isn't free - yet it is. I'm not sure what vocabulary problem people have with this concept. A vacation package is made up of several components, and each of those components has a value attached to it. In this case, the room component will vary, but the dining component of the package is a zero charge, which = free! There is no bait and switch - that would only be the case if they charged you a fee of some sort when booking a free dining package. That clearly is not the case.

Whether it's the best deal is another discussion...but free dining is free as there is no charge for that component of the package! Tiger

 

[crisi]

LOL. Love your reference to the Kohl's model. Everything is overpriced so we can put it on "sale" all the time! I love free dining and I love Kohl's, too! Guess I'm a sucker for a crappy deal!

I like Kohl's myself. But the trick is to understand the VALUE of your purchases and the going deals. If I wander into Kohl's because I need new jeans right now, I'm taking my chances on getting jeans for $10 more than if I watched the racks for three weeks.

Disney is the same way - understand the value of the package deal. Savvy Disney shoppers have been doing it for years - anyone remember the "never buy the package" advice from long ago - packages always had a mark up over buying the components individually (this was back in the "Disney doesn't Discount" days). Also, understand the components of your deal - a Water Parks and More option on your seven day hoppers is NOT a good deal if you will only doing one "Water Park or More" during your stay. The Dining Plan is seldom a good deal if you will skip meals and spend several days at Universal - or if you don't want to make ADRs.

 

[cmjaffe]

Correct me if I'm wrong...
Doesn't the guest have to pay tax/tip on the "free" dining plan now? (vs. years ago when it was "truly" free?)
If the OP is considering the free plan she must also add in the extra $$ they will be expected to pay for tax/tip on the amount that is used at the eating establishments.

 

[deerhart]

So what about those families of 4 that go to WDW during free dining, stay in a value resort at a rack rate of $97 a night? They are also getting the quick service plan free, which would cost $84 a night (2a, 2c) to add if they were paying; even more than that if one or more kids were over the age of 9.

You can't tell me you don't consider that free. Even a 30% discount on the room only amounts to a $32 a night savings...and then you still have to pay OOP for food (which will cost a family of 4 a boatload more than $32 a day).

I can see the argument that it's not as great of a deal for the deluxe resorts...but it doesn't hold water when discussing values or even moderates when we're talking families with children.

We are staying in Deluxe (Beach Club) with 40% off. This saves us $140-$150 a night. It ALSO saves us about $15 in taxes (since the tax rate is something like 11%) Our dining plan costs $138 a day (2 adults, 1 junior, 1 child).

So our total off room cost is about $151-$165 and for our stay is roughly $1300, our meal plan costs $1104. The meal plan does not become a better deal until my youngest child is also paying adult prices when staying at a deluxe and having a 40% off code.

On the other hand, staying at a moderate or value, the meal plan becomes the better deal. There my room would cost about $1350 (pre tax and rough estimate) and my meal plan still $1104. The discount of 30% would only save us $476. Value we would save like $240 total with the 30% discount.

So any promo that saves us over $1300 on a deluxe would be the one we would choose as so far that's the best deal.

 

[crisi]

ITA! As an English teacher it drives me nuts when people say that free dining isn't free - yet it is. I'm not sure what vocabulary problem people have with this concept. A vacation package is made up of several components, and each of those components has a value attached to it. In this case, the room component will vary, but the dining component of the package is a zero charge, which = free! There is no bait and switch - that would only be the case if they charged you a fee of some sort when booking a free dining package. That clearly is not the case.

Whether it's the best deal is another discussion...but free dining is free as there is no charge for that component of the package! Tiger

I'm an accountant, not an English teacher. When pricing something, you need to review the total cost of ownership of the package. Its only free if its acquisition is not tied to another acquisition.

For instance, when Ronco includes the egg separator in when you buy the inside the egg scrambler - it isn't free. The cost of goods in the egg separator has been built into the price of the inside the egg scrambler. If it was free, you could call up and just get a free egg separator.

 

[deerhart]

Correct me if I'm wrong...
Doesn't the guest have to pay tax/tip on the "free" dining plan now? (vs. years ago when it was "truly" free?)
If the OP is considering the free plan she must also add in the extra $$ they will be expected to pay for tax/tip on the amount that is used at the eating establishments.

tax is included, tip isn't

 

[Tiger926]

I'm an accountant, not an English teacher. When pricing something, you need to review the total cost of ownership of the package. Its only free if its acquisition is not tied to another acquisition.

For instance, when Ronco includes the egg separator in when you buy the inside the egg scrambler - it isn't free. The cost of goods in the egg separator has been built into the price of the inside the egg scrambler. If it was free, you could call up and just get a free egg separator.

The promo doesn't say "free package" as it's listed as "free dining", which means it's one component of the package.

Your total cost of ownership example can only apply when discerning what is the best promo deal for you, but, when discussing the actual concept of 'free dining', the dining portion is free as there is a zero charge attached to it. Whether the acquisition of this particular package component is tied to another is not revelant as Disney isn't advertising a free total vacation package. They are only advertising one component of said vacation package as being free. This is just a straight vocabulary issue - free dining really means free dining.

Tiger

 

[gina2000]

It would be much more accurate to advertise: Free dining when you book a room at rack rate.

But WDW doesn't and too many people don't realize or understand that room rates are negotiable depending on occupancy rates.

Is it bait and switch? No, but it's not entirely straightforward either.

 

[Planogirl]

Again, I'm only going by total cost. People can get a room for a certain amount at a discount. Of course anyone can understand that. However when said room is offered with free dining and you find that the room now costs quite a bit more, the dining no longer feels free to some people.

This has nothing to do with grammar or even logic but the word 'free' and what someone might expect.

Personally I don't take part in any of it so I have no feelings one way or the other. But I know that some people particularly newbies can get a bit thrown off by this.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

If you'll notice Disney has been adding the 'non-discounted package' disclaimer on its advertising for the free dining promotion.

Back when free dining was first offered it was a major steal for those staying in Value resorts. My kids and I dined for free (as 3 adults) and paid in the $78 or $82 range for the room at Pop... back when appetizers and tips were included. Sigh... the good old days!

 

[Planogirl]

If you'll notice Disney has been adding the 'non-discounted package' disclaimer on its advertising for the free dining promotion.

Back when free dining was first offered it was a major steal for those staying in Value resorts. My kids and I dined for free (as 3 adults) and paid in the $78 or $82 range for the room at Pop... back when appetizers and tips were included. Sigh... the good old days!

Now THAT is a great deal! I always heard about these great rates but always had bad luck finding them except once at AKL. Bless AKL.

 

[vicki_c]

But WDW doesn't and too many people don't realize or understand that room rates are negotiable depending on occupancy rates.

This is not really true because it suggests that YOU can negotiate a better room price if the resort is not booked. Which you can't do at Disney, as far as I've ever heard.

Room rates are not "negotiable", but they do fluctuate depending on what other offers Disney is putting out, time of year, etc.

And I agree with all the others -- why would Disney make it really really obvious that there might be a better deal out there? That wouldn't be good business, and as a stockholder, I'm glad they make smart business decisions (most of the time anyway). Just like any company -- maximizing profit is what it's all about and if they want to stay in business, that's how it should be.

 

[EclecticWAHM]

It would be much more accurate to advertise: Free dining when you book a room at rack rate.

But WDW doesn't and too many people don't realize or understand that room rates are negotiable depending on occupancy rates.

Is it bait and switch? No, but it's not entirely straightforward either.

Sure they do - it's very straightforward:

Price based on 2 adults, one junior and one child. Number of rooms allocated for this offer is limited. Savings based on non-discounted price for the same package. Tickets are for one theme park per day and must be used within 14 days of first use. See Important Details. Book through August 14, 2010.

It says so right on the page.

 

[luckygirl539]

What if we have four adults in a room, and the free dining is only supposed to cover 2 adults and 2 kids? Can you pay the difference to add the other adults?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Many, many people I'm sure (those not on the Dis) will book the 'free' dining promo not realizing that this may be costing them MORE.

The OP is right. Free should mean free in Norway and in the old USA.

Free DOES mean free. It can't be considered the business's fault when people hear only what they want to hear.

I'm watching USA Network right now - 'now' being May 19, 2010. Some time between 10:15 and 10:35 PM, they aired a Walt Disney World commercial. In part, the announcer stated,
"Get the dining plan free when you book a five night six day Walt Disney World vacation including..."

Not "free dining" but "the dining plan free". BIG difference - but people hear only what they want to hear, and then interpret what they want to hear as they see fit. Add in doing the math backwards and you have misplaced anger or extreme confusion - as in this thread.

 

[EclecticWAHM]

What if we have four adults in a room, and the free dining is only supposed to cover 2 adults and 2 kids? Can you pay the difference to add the other adults?

You'll get the free dining for however many adults you register with your package. The 2 adults 2 kids is just an example they give.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Take the deals I get for Vegas, for instance. I get a VERY discounted room, 2 for 1 show tickets, and free buffet offers for much LESS than rack rates. They don't bump the price back UP to "cover" the so-called "free" meals and show tickets.

Las Vegas is a whole different animal. While several companies own multiple properties, they still compete with other companies. Walt Disney World 'competes' with itself to a much greater degree than it competes with any offsite property.

So, the OP is 100% correct. FREE dining costs you money, anyway you slice it. It might be a great deal. It might be less than you'd pay in teh parks. It might even be less than driving yourself out to Bob Evans and McD's every day, but it is not FREE. They say FREE, and it is not FREE. Just saying, no such thing as a free lunch at Diz!

The OP is incorrect. The OP is doing the math backwards. Walt Disney World is not adding anything to anything. They are charging rack rate - the same rate from which they calculate any discounts. The dining plan free is simply an alternative discount.

WALT DISNEY WORLD DOES NOT OFFER FREE DINING, no matter how many timees we call it that on the DIS Boards or how many times anybody calls it that on any other unofficial site. They call the promotion EXACTLY what it is: THE DINING PLAN FREE, with the purchase of a Walt Disney World Vacation Package (note that not only do they designate it 100% accurately, they include the conditions required to qualify to get the dining plan free).

 

[kaytieeldr]

To the OP poster ... this is what happens when you question almight Diz Corp on this fans board. They get defended to the hilt, and you get slammed for questioning them. Thou shalt not question Diz!! I fully understand where the OP from Norway got confused and disappointed. To him (and many non-DizBoard folks) free means free. It shocks a bunch of folks to see their so-called free dining will cost them $700 more than their room and tickets. That ain't FREE!!!

I'm not sure where you're getting this impression, or why you're spreading inaccurate information. When any business or entity is in the wrong, of course it's reasonable and sensible to question their actions.

In this case, Walt Disney World - which is, as fare as I can tell, to what you refer when you say 'the Diz' - has made no error and has disseminated no false or incorrect information here. Nor has the OP been 'slammed'. The OP's calculations are erroneous because (a) he/she is basing them on false beliefs - that Walt Disney World doesn't allow outside sources (Expedia in this case) to offer discounted prices, which was pointed out to be wrong based on information on Expedia's own site and (b) he/she does not understand rack rate, which is the listed/published/standard room rate a hotel charges, expects to get, and bases its projected revenue on. NO business would EVER set a rack rate and then ADD to it. EVER.

Again, Walt Disney World does not, has not, and to the best of my knowledge will not ever offer free dining. They have in the past had, and currently offer (and ideally will continue in the future) their dining plan free with the purchase of a Walt Disney World Vacation Package. Yes, there's a difference - a big difference.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't read you. Even in your explanation it is indeed a free perk. You have a room and ticket, you get EMH hours FREE (no additional charge).

There are still conditions. You have to meet all the conditions. In the case of EMH, no there's not a package - but you have to be a registered Guest at a Walt Disney World resort (or have checked out that day) and possess and use a valid park pass.

There is no package for EMH and bus use... you stay there and have a ticket, you have it

Now you're comparing oranges and monkeys. There are no [enforced] conditions for bus - any WDW transportation usage, period. Get in line, get on the bus/boat/monorail, ride. That's it. You could be hitchhiking through the area - wouldn't matter. No comparison

So, a person sees a 30 second spot in TV saying FREE dining,

But the person DIDN'T see ir hear an ad of ANY length saying free dining. They saw or heard an ad saying "... the dining plan free with the purchase of a Walt Disney World Vacation Package...".

Classic bait and switch. Low-ball marketing ploy

Neither. You should really take the time to learn more about marketing.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I understand the math. I understand the ploy. I am simply saying I also understand where the OP and TONS of other folks are mislead and disappointed. They plaster FREE dining on ads. Folks see what room rates they can get and think they can FINALLY afford that trip with those rates. Then .. not so fast. It is a bait and switch. It is underhanded. It is marketing 101. I am a Dizzer, but I know the game...

If you could please direct me to anywhere that Walt Disney World has plastered "free dining" on ads, I would appreciate it. I haven't seen that anywhere. What I've seen is "the dining plan free with the purchase of a Walt Disney World Vacation..." which is VERY different from what you - and apparently many others - percieve. Advertisers can't be responsible for readers' comprehension.

It's not bait & switch.
It's not underhanded in the least.
Marketing 101? Maybe - but the marketer knows what they're doing, it's 100% on the up-and-up, completely legitimate, and entirely ethical. There's no intent to mislead. Again, they can't help it if readers interpret "... dining plan free with the purchase of a vacation package..." as "free dining". Nor should they be expected to.