Not trying to get a rumor going but I do feel a little concerned...

From what I have observed, renovations are needed at least every 5 years when you consider the normal wear and tear the rooms get with constant non-stop use. That doesn't even take into account the abuse and damage from some occupants who are really destructive. We bought AKV when it was being built and made our 1st visit a few months after it opened. The downward spiral of wear and tear has been obvious with each visit since. In order to keep sales going for new properties, it is important to keep the units maintained on the established properties they have. it is bad for future DVC sales if current owners are complaining about the rooms looking shabby and falling apart. I think it was getting to that point with several of the resorts and members were really beginning to complaining about poor maintainace. A portion of the fees we pay each year are allocated to maintaining the standards of a "deluxe accommodation" and when people feel it is no longer meeting that standard, they complain. DVC membership is advertised as providing deluxe accommodations and this a main selling point. The cost for points is high, and no one in their right mind would spend that kind of money for something that is not being maintained to the standard promised.

Complaining falls on deaf ears, 95% of buyers do so without even checking the internet so they would never know of any issues. Even when they do check they blow it off because of Disney's positive reputation. I will tell you that DVC really has taught our family of how Disney really is, we are crushed because Disney was our last hope for humanity! :-)

:earsboy: Bill
 
I will tell you that DVC really has taught our family of how Disney really is, we are crushed because Disney was our last hope for humanity! :-)

Universal brought back our hope, fwiw.

And I just got an email that Margaritaville is making an Orlando timeshare, which brings it back even more.
 
Not unless they are going to sell the resorts also. Right now DVC is keeping the shared hotels afloat.
 
From what I have observed, renovations are needed at least every 5 years when you consider the normal wear and tear the rooms get with constant non-stop use. That doesn't even take into account the abuse and damage from some occupants who are really destructive. We bought AKV when it was being built and made our 1st visit a few months after it opened. The downward spiral of wear and tear has been obvious with each visit since. In order to keep sales going for new properties, it is important to keep the units maintained on the established properties they have. it is bad for future DVC sales if current owners are complaining about the rooms looking shabby and falling apart. I think it was getting to that point with several of the resorts and members were really beginning to complaining about poor maintainace. A portion of the fees we pay each year are allocated to maintaining the standards of a "deluxe accommodation" and when people feel it is no longer meeting that standard, they complain. DVC membership is advertised as providing deluxe accommodations and this a main selling point. The cost for points is high, and no one in their right mind would spend that kind of money for something that is not being maintained to the standard promised.
In my experience owning DVC for 22 years, they have NOT fulfilled the schedule you lay out. I have a lot of timeshare experience of the last 22 years and I've seen that most have a formal schedule with every 5, 6 or 7 years being most common. Usually alternating soft good with a full refurbishment. The better ones are 5, the lower ones are 7 from what I've seen. I've seen one that does a full refurbishment every 4 years and charge the owners separately when they do. From what I've seen DVC has never had a formal schedule, it looks like they wait and judge when it's needed then start planning. This has frequently put them at 7 yrs or after and the resorts have suffered for it IMO.

Complaining falls on deaf ears, 95% of buyers do so without even checking the internet so they would never know of any issues. Even when they do check they blow it off because of Disney's positive reputation. I will tell you that DVC really has taught our family of how Disney really is, we are crushed because Disney was our last hope for humanity! :-)

:earsboy: Bill
Bill, you're so melodramatic on this. They're not as good as you'd hoped or as bad as you state. They are just another good timeshare company (DVC) and service company (Disney) and ALWAYS have been, I guess you just didn't know it going in. I think Disney considers complaints but doesn't react to them the way some members would like. I do shake my head at times with their decisions like the Poly with all studios or some of the rule changes seemingly without considering how the members will adjust. But I also shake my head at the members on a regular basis, like failing to understand why the valet parking issue had to be terminated (though it was handled badly by DVC). If I felt as you state, I wouldn't play in their sandbox.
 
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Many things are handled badly by DVC, that's my point. OKW extension, lack of information, website issues, MS issues, restrictions, room issues, room refurb design changes. If it wasn't for the room cost savings, we wouldn't be "members".

:earsboy: Bill
 
If I am recalling correctly, there was an announcement last year, possibly at the annual meeting, that refurbs then and into the future for the DVC resorts were going to occur on a more frequent schedule than before and that it could have some impact on annual dues but probably not by a large amount. I did not construe that as something being done so Disney could sell the resorts but instead as DVC finally conceding, after years of denying it to itself, that the DVC resorts needed refurbs on a schedule similar to the hotels.

At least as to any WDW resorts, I do not perceive any possibility of Disney selling what it can, mainly the land, to rid itself of DVC, absent something more drastic and unthinkable like making it part of a decision to sell its entire theme park business. It already has the ideal system from its viewpoint in that if it determines in the future it no longer wants DVC, it just has to wait it out until the land lease expiration dates. Moreover, its position as manager of the resorts is not a money losing proposition. Though dues for most things need to be set based on cost and not a cost plus profit factor method, there are several "profit" factors buiilt into the system. One is is the sixty day breakage period where Disney gets to rent any unreserved rooms and only a small portion of the rental income goes to offset dues; the rest funds the reservation system (MS) and ultimately anything above those costs is just profit to Disney. Another is the management fee built into dues which is 12% of the annual budget (excluding items such as taxes and the management fee itself). For all resorts, that is a number already in the tens of millions and it covers essentially exactly what it says, Disney overall management of the resorts, while all the costs of actually running and maintaining the resorts, including mangement of the particular resort are covered in other dues items. Undoubtedly it is making profit from that fee. Then you have the resort "cost" items in the dues that are not truly items at "cost," in that the dues are paying for things like transportation at a cost charged by other Disney entities to the resort, but nothing prevents that other entity from charging at a price that includes some profit.

On top of the above profit centers, we have the new "model" DVC resort in the Polynesian, to be repeated at WL. You build a resort where a huge amount of the points are devoted to hugely expensive, in dollars and per point per night, on the water bungalows or beach cabins. You then sell those points to your target audience which consists mainly of people who can usually afford to get only the smaller and less expensive units like studios, thus make a huge dollar profit selling items that the purchasers can't afford and usually won't use, set up a showcase item for your main park business, and then when the 60 day breakage comes around you often have many of those uber expensive showcase items to rent. Disney then gets to keep most dollars from such rentals as profit, other than a small portion that goes to offset dues, because all the costs of operating and maintaining those uber expensive showcase items are paid out of dues charged to all those DVC members who bought only to get studios.

If Disney were to sell the WDW DVC resorts, it would give up all of the above profit centers while turning over control of part of its WDW resort business to a a new company that would likely be difficult to deal with in relation to the operation of WDW as a whole. Not a good business decision.
 
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Many things are handled badly by DVC, that's my point. OKW extension, lack of information, website issues, MS issues, restrictions, room issues, room refurb design changes. If it wasn't for the room cost savings, we wouldn't be "members".

:earsboy: Bill
There are things I feel they've handled badly, things they could have handled better and things I simply disagree with. But in total I'm still fairly positive about the company else I wouldn't give them money. IMO DVC isn't as good as many thought going in years ago and isn't as bad as some (often the same group) think it is now. They must be doing something right enough you still want to go. I think the issue in some of these ares is they've learned they can't win so they've given up. I attribute this more to the entitlement mentality of the membership as a whole than anything else. Things like last minute reburb notices which simply gives people less time to complain and them less time to have to listen to it. Personally I think they'd be better off announcing it earlier but developing a backbone and not giving people credits or points returned for such matters such as someone that got the view reserved but they still didn't like it.
 
There is a defined time schedule for soft and hard good refurbishment. At the last annual meeting, they announced that they were shortening the dates by one year. Now they're bringing everything in line.

In my experience owning DVC for 22 years, they have done fulfilled the schedule you lay out. I have a lot of timeshare experience of the last 22 years and I've seen that most have a formal schedule with every 5, 6 or 7 years being most common. Usually alternating soft good with a full refurbishment. The better ones are 5, the lower ones are 7 from what I've seen. I've seen one that does a full refurbishment every 4 years and charge the owners separately when they do. From what I've seen DVC has never had a formal schedule, it looks like they wait and judge when it's needed then start planning. This has frequently put them at 7 yrs or after and the resorts have suffered for it IMO.

If I am recalling correctly, there was an announcement last year, possibly at the annual meeting, that refurbs then and into the future for the DVC resorts were going to occur on a more frequent schedule than before and that it could have some impact on annual dues but probably not by a large amount. I did not construe that as something being done so Disney could sell the resorts but instead as DVC finally conceding, after years of denying it to itself, that the DVC resorts needed refurbs on a schedule similar to the hotels.

What was reported as being said at the Annual meeting in Dec 2015 is that full refurbs were originally scheduled every 24 years. (crazy) They had decided to shorten that to 14 years which would have meant that it was BCV's turn this year and that OKW, HHI, VB, BWV and VWL all were over due. Also they were going to do both soft goods and hard goods updates approx every 7 years.

That they somehow had the reserves to do full refurbs 10 years in advance is certainly questionable IMO. But in most instances I don't disagree with the need, even if I disagree with many of the design choices. Now I hope that they also have plans for better maintenance at a few of the resorts that really seemed to be neglected in that area.

I'd suspect that there was some pressure from to get DVC rooms updated as they had fallen a ways behind the resort updates and thus might have been getting more difficult for CRO to rent out.
 
What was reported as being said at the Annual meeting in Dec 2015 is that full refurbs were originally scheduled every 24 years. (crazy) They had decided to shorten that to 14 years which would have meant that it was BCV's turn this year and that OKW, HHI, VB, BWV and VWL all were over due. Also they were going to do both soft goods and hard goods updates approx every 7 years.

That they somehow had the reserves to do full refurbs 10 years in advance is certainly questionable IMO. But in most instances I don't disagree with the need, even if I disagree with many of the design choices. Now I hope that they also have plans for better maintenance at a few of the resorts that really seemed to be neglected in that area.

I'd suspect that there was some pressure from to get DVC rooms updated as they had fallen a ways behind the resort updates and thus might have been getting more difficult for CRO to rent out.
Even if it remains every 10 years that seems too far apart. Those rooms take a beating.

MG
 
What was reported as being said at the Annual meeting in Dec 2015 is that full refurbs were originally scheduled every 24 years. (crazy) They had decided to shorten that to 14 years which would have meant that it was BCV's turn this year and that OKW, HHI, VB, BWV and VWL all were over due. Also they were going to do both soft goods and hard goods updates approx every 7 years.

That they somehow had the reserves to do full refurbs 10 years in advance is certainly questionable IMO. But in most instances I don't disagree with the need, even if I disagree with many of the design choices. Now I hope that they also have plans for better maintenance at a few of the resorts that really seemed to be neglected in that area.

I'd suspect that there was some pressure from to get DVC rooms updated as they had fallen a ways behind the resort updates and thus might have been getting more difficult for CRO to rent out.
IF so I'd assume they're talking the full refurbishment. 14 years is about the outside IMO and as I noted, what I've seen is that average resorts are 14 years for a hard refurbishment and better ones are 10 yrs with a soft goods refurbishment in between. Of course that's for resorts that generally have been full week resorts (historically), a more flexible system allowing shorter stays will sustain even more wear and tear.
 
I don't really care for the refurb design changes but at least they all of a sudden decided to do something about the rooms. Question is how will this affect our dues, how do they have the money now and not before? What outside force caused them to change the schedule, ratings in some timeshare matrix, Potrock running for some outside office, someone sent room condition photos to Igar?

:earsboy: Bill
 
I don't really care for the refurb design changes but at least they all of a sudden decided to do something about the rooms. Question is how will this affect our dues, how do they have the money now and not before? What outside force caused them to change the schedule, ratings in some timeshare matrix, Potrock running for some outside office, someone sent room condition photos to Igar?

:earsboy: Bill

The money is the thing I really don't understand. The moved the full refurb schedule up 10 years. And said it would only affect dues by approx 1%. There is no way they should have had enough reserves to complete a full refurb 10 years earlier than scheduled.
 
The money is the thing I really don't understand. The moved the full refurb schedule up 10 years. And said it would only affect dues by approx 1%. There is no way they should have had enough reserves to complete a full refurb 10 years earlier than scheduled.

Makes me wonder if they fudged at the meeting. I assume the estimated 1% increase is a reference to total budget not just reserve budget, meaning for something like BWV, which has a budget in the low $30 million, the additional reserve amount would be about $300,000 a year. That could shorten a full refurb schedule some but not likely by 10 years. Since they were changing it to every 14 years, I wonder if the prior schedule was actually closer to 14 than the 24 asserted because they wanted it to sound like a big change so everyone would think every 14 years is wonderful rather than too long.

Also, I am not sure the 7 year soft goods schedule is really that much of a change, at least for some of the resorts. BWV opened 1996. It has had three refurbs. One in 2002-03, one in 2009-10, meaning every 7 years, and then the major change refurb that included adding the murphy bed to the studios in 2015-16.
 
We'd really have to review their reserve schedule to get a complete picture. They may have overestimated the inflation on replacement costs, or (as many have noticed), they may be replacing the furnishings with lower-cost components.
 
But I also shake my head at the members on a regular basis, like failing to understand why the valet parking issue had to be terminated (though it was handled badly by DVC). If I felt as you state, I wouldn't play in their sandbox.

Can you explain the part about the Valet Parking? That was a nice perk, and I hated to see it go. i went to an owners meeting the year they did away with it, and they tried to explain that it was a huge expense, which really didn't seem to be accurate.
 
Been an owner since 2001...VWL. Only posted a small number of times in all these years. Not a troll or a pot stirrer by nature. That being said, I got to wondering lately if Disney is getting ready to sell off DVC. There seems to be a lot of DVC renovations going on all at once, from sprucing up to major construction projects. From Vero to Wilderness to BWV to BCV...and more. I would like someone to talk me down from this idea. I am the owner or former owner of a few other Timeshare/Vacation Clubs so I have seen the pattern before. Again, not trying to upset anyone, just got to wondering. I guess if they were in talks with anyone it would have been reported by now.
Not a chance.....its the cash cow that keeps on giving
 
They've already sold it off; sort of. DVD, who built the properties and sold them, is a separate company. DVC, who manages the properties and owners association, is a separate company.

Frankly, there's nothing to sell. We members own the buildings. We pay for the management. What else is there?
This idea that it is two separate companies" to me has always been to me the biggest bit of nonsense Disney sells us....IMO it is how they justify not providing more substantive discounts on park passes and dining to their members.....you only need to watch these boards to see folks site that very thing anytime someone complains about the lack of significant discounts
 
Can you explain the part about the Valet Parking? That was a nice perk, and I hated to see it go. i went to an owners meeting the year they did away with it, and they tried to explain that it was a huge expense, which really didn't seem to be accurate.

Disney for years was the valet provider, and the cost of providing that service (employee and other costs) was included in dues charged to members. As a result, DVC could not also charge separately for that service to members because its costs were already covered in the annual dues. Beginning about 2006, Disney began switching to hiring an outside contrator to handle valet services at the resorts, beginning initially I believe with GF and then eventually all the resorts that provide valet. I do not know when the change actually came to a DVC resort but once it did, the costs of providing the service, including employee costs, were borne by the outside contractor including the cost of providing any free valet to members. I am not clear on the arrangement but for a while I believe the contractor may have been charging an annual fee to DVC and then that ended in October 2009, either as a result of new contract or a change in contractors, and thus the cost of valet services was no longer included in the DVC dues and the contractor could charge valet directly to the members. As to whether it was actually a huge expense, I do not know. However, what was true is that those members who did not ever bring a car were previously paying for the service as part of annual dues.
 
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My contract at VWL ends in 2042.....by definition I am not an "owner"...I am a "member"....Disney pedals that owner fiction, and it works for sure.....I am the ultimate "between two worlds" person....I love my DVC membership, but i am very clear it is not the great bargain Disney, and many folks who buy the fantasy would have me believe.....I simply understand i am paying a premium for a preferred vacation
 
Disney for years was the valet provider, and the cost of providing that service (employee and other costs) was included in dues charged to members. As a result, DVC could not also charge separately for that service to members because its costs were already covered in the annual dues. Beginning about 2006, Disney began switching to hiring an outside contrator to handle valet services at the resorts, beginning initially I believe with GF and then eventually all the resorts. I do not know when the change actually came to a DVC resort but once it did, the costs of providing the service were borne by the outside contractor including the cost of providing any free valet to members. I am not clear on the arrangement but for a while I believe the contractor may have been charging an annual fee to DVC and then that ended, either as a result of new contract or a change in contractors, and thus the cost of valet services was no longer included in the DVC dues and the contractor could charge valet directly to the members.
translated ....it was never really a benifit,you were already paying for it.....the minute it became an actual benifit, it went bye bye
 
















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