Not to reopen that can of worms but...

[wisblue]

No, I didn't mean to say that anything was a negative. What I meant to say to PP is that I see why that works for you, but here's why that wouldn't work for me. Sometimes I think our differing opinions are the result of different circumstances. I have no doubt that if I were local, I would feel exactly like the PP. I'm not though. I'm coming from a completely different situation. THAT was my actual point. 3 rides was what he mentioned in the post, so I referenced it, and THAT is where I think the confusion is coming from. The day he described, while a great day for him (and maybe some others) would be a waste of a ticket for me. Locals are probably not even in that mindset, having APs. Again, another example of different circumstances.

So really, "3 rides" was only in there because he named 3 rides that he rode. If it had have been 4 rides (at MK), I still would have said, I see why you like this, why you had a great day, why FP+ has improved things for you. But for me - with my different circumstances - not so much.

I am happy for people who have found FP+ to be an enhancement to their vacation, for whatever reason. I don't begrudge you popping in to do a few rides. I envy the crap out of you but I don't begrudge you. I was just pointing out that, because of my differing circumstances (and I'm assuming I'm speaking for some others on this, but boy, I don't know that I'm doing a good job of it), the day that PP described would be pretty much no good to me. We travel a long way, we go for a limited period of time, and most days, we try to cram in as much as we can. Ordinarily, if we left MK having ridden, say 5 rides, that would be a fail for us.

To be (hopefully) clear as day, I don't believe that if you like FP+, you must be ok with only 3 rides. I know that's been said before, and it's a gross overgeneralization.

Maybe my tone came off as belittling the PP? That wasn't my intent or my point. I'm interested in hearing others' circumstances, and why things work for them. It's academic, I guess, but it's interesting to me.

If I came off as being negative or saying you can only ride 3 rides, that wasn't what I meant.

No need to apologize at all because I think what you said was pretty clear.

If there is anything that should be clear to anyone who has followed these discussions for the last couple of years, personal opinions about FP+ are very dependent on how people like to tour the WDW parks and what time of year they visit. There is also the big difference between people who like to have a few things scheduled in advance and build the rest of their day around that, and those who like to start each day with a totally empty schedule with no ADR's and no other plans to dictate which park to visit that day.

For example, people who like to spend all day in one park with no break, like to ride certain things multiple times in a day, and who used paper FP to help them do that (especially when the parks were less crowded and FPs were easy to come by with short return times) are probably not going to find FP+ as favorable for them. But, at the other end of the spectrum, people who are accustomed to arriving at rope drop, doing as many rides as possible before lines build up (usually no more than once each), taking a break from the parks in the middle of the day, and returning to a second park later in the day, are much more likely to find that FP+ makes their trips more enjoyable. And there are countless variations on these themes and points in between.

The biggest disagreements in these discussions come when people take their opinions and extend them to a conclusion that FP+ is negative for everyone (or almost everyone) and that it forces people to lower their expectations for their WDW vacations. As long as everyone can recognize that FP+ is better for some and not as good for others, the personal opinions and experiences can help new or infrequent visitors to plan and draw their own conclusions based on how they like to do things.

 

[itchin2go]

I was originally not going to give my opinion because I am at my cabin and only have a phone but .., Okay, here goes...

I was very frustrated with FP+. I felt it was unnecessary and an intrusion on my time and general touring plan.

But, I am a Commando park guest so I attempted to use it to my advantage. It works some of the time, especially for longer trips.

To find out how the carefully crafted plan worked out..check out my trip report "A commando does Disney".

Summary:

You might get hungry when it is inconvenient

FP+ need to be scheduled to allow for the longer wait times for standby attactions. Not an hour apart.

I loved reading your trip report!

 

[momof2n2]

No need to apologize at all because I think what you said was pretty clear.

If there is anything that should be clear to anyone who has followed these discussions for the last couple of years, personal opinions about FP+ are very dependent on how people like to tour the WDW parks and what time of year they visit. There is also the big difference between people who like to have a few things scheduled in advance and build the rest of their day around that, and those who like to start each day with a totally empty schedule with no ADR's and no other plans to dictate which park to visit that day.

For example, people who like to spend all day in one park with no break, like to ride certain things multiple times
a day, and who used paper FP to help them do that (especially when the parks were less crowded and FPs were easy to come by with short return times) are probably not going to find FP+ as favorable for them. But, at the other end of the spectrum, people who are accustomed to arriving at rope drop, doing as many rides as possible before lines build up (usually no more than once each), taking a break from the parks in the middle of the day, and returning to a second park later in the day, are much more likely to find that FP+ makes their trips more enjoyable. And there are countless variations on these themes and points in between.

The biggest disagreements in these discussions come when people take their opinions and extend them to a conclusion that FP+ is negative for everyone (or almost everyone) and that it forces people to lower their expectations for their WDW vacations. As long as everyone can recognize that FP+ is better for some and not as good for others, the personal opinions and experiences can help new or infrequent visitors to plan and draw their own conclusions based on how they like to do things.

I do feel, however, that it had only been recently that those of us who toured as I've bolded have received acknowledgement that FP+ is not a positive for us.
For over a year I've more often than not encountered posters who (1) directed me to stop whining and get used to it, (2) called me a superuser/abuser, (3) simply couldn't/wouldn't acknowledge that FP+ changed WDW for my family in a decidedly negative way.

I appreciate the shift in acknowledgment that is becoming evident in posts from some FP+ proponents. I very much hope this is a board where people can freely discuss touring strategies regardless of their view of FP+.

I wish people didn't feel so passionate about convincing others that some are right and others are wrong b/c of their preferences. If we allowed each group to share strategies within threads without folks jumping in to "correct" them and derail into debates (this could go either way) these boards would be a lot more helpful.

 

[itchin2go]

I do feel, however, that it had only been recently that those of us who toured as I've bolded have received acknowledgement that FP+ is not a positive for us.
For over a year I've more often than not encountered posters who (1) directed me to stop whining and get used to it, (2) called me a superuser/abuser, (3) simply couldn't/wouldn't acknowledge that FP+ changed WDW for my family in a decidedly negative way.

I appreciate the shift in acknowledgment that is becoming evident in posts from some FP+ proponents. I very much hope this is a board where people can freely discuss touring strategies regardless of their view of FP+.

I wish people didn't feel so passionate about convincing others that some are right and others are wrong b/c of their preferences. If we allowed each group to share strategies within threads without folks jumping in to "correct" them and derail into debates (this could go either way) these boards would be a lot more helpful.

I feel like the landscape is becoming more clear. Maybe that's just something that takes time, but the level of animosity (at times, and not pointing any fingers) hasn't helped to clear anything up any sooner.

For us, there is no right or wrong. It's more "right for US" or "wrong for US". But you have to listen to what someone says if you're going to understand why what's "right for someone else" may be 100% "wrong for me". It's a "walk a mile in my shoes" kind of thing.

 

[crostorfer]

We still hate it, but as someone said previously, it is what it is. We have just changed the way we do our trips. We always go during a special hard ticket event, or a festival time at EPCOT. We spend A LOT of time in the WS now, which I rather enjoy. During F&G and F&W we get our little booklets and make it a goal to visit every booth and eat or drink at least one item from each. We also upgrade our tickets to the WP&M and spend half days at water parks to fill in the hours before, or after, we use our FPs. We don't hang around the MK or the AK like we used to, and we now skip HS all together because it isn't worth it to use our FPs there. I think we probably play into the Disney executive's hands with that move, as I think that was really the goal all along: crowd control. Get in, ride your rides, eat, buy some crap, and get out to make room for the next family.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This is the first time we've been back in June in a long time, and I have to say that I'm very surprised how long the waits are even though the crowds themselves don't seem to be that much higher.

I don't really blame Disney for the waits, when so many people decide they are going to go to Disney World and Disney raises prices in response yet the crowds still build I suppose the only argument is that Disney should have more attractions.

And while that argument has merit, it's not what they did so what we are left to deal with are high competitions for a limited number of resources. Today, for example, we were shocked to see how high the wait times were in MK and there wasn't much we could do about it because our FP's were for later in the evening at Epcot. So we really only enjoyed four different attractions while we were at MK (Carousel of Progress, PeopleMover, Hall of Presidents, Mickey's Philharmagic) and then left around 5pm to get to Epcot for our three FP's - one of which we decided to not even use at the reserved time because the wait for Mission Space wasn't much more than 20 minutes.

This worked pretty well for us but this isn't the first time we've been to WDW so we don't expect to cover a lot of ground each day. Honestly, if I were wearing one of those "1st Visit" buttons I've had felt ripped off by the time the day was over.

What time did you arrive at MK? Your experience is inconsistent with my experiences at rope drop but quite consistent with a later in the day arrival.
I cannot envision how you could only do those 3 attractions between 9 and 5pm. So maybe the late arrival was part of the issue?

 

[ArwenMarie]

We still hate it, but as someone said previously, it is what it is. We have just changed the way we do our trips. We always go during a special hard ticket event, or a festival time at EPCOT. We spend A LOT of time in the WS now, which I rather enjoy. During F&G and F&W we get our little booklets and make it a goal to visit every booth and eat or drink at least one item from each. We also upgrade our tickets to the WP&M and spend half days at water parks to fill in the hours before, or after, we use our FPs. We don't hang around the MK or the AK like we used to, and we now skip HS all together because it isn't worth it to use our FPs there. I think we probably play into the Disney executive's hands with that move, as I think that was really the goal all along: crowd control. Get in, ride your rides, eat, buy some crap, and get out to make room for the next family.

Yep, that was one of the goals (I think anyway). But that's awesome that you guys found a way to still have a great time even though it is different.

 

[FireMarshallBill]

Agree with the above. We've found we need to be much more flexible. Our own personal situation doesn't make getting to the park early in the morning for rope drop a reasonable possibility, so we have to play with the cards that are dealt to us.

Yesterday afternoon, for example, we were disappointed to find a 105 minute wait time for Space Mountain. But the two secondary attractions in the area had much shorter waits (PeopleMover and Carousel of Progress) so we elected to do those instead and then move to another area of the park for other attractions like Hall of Presidents and Philharmagic where wait times are usually no longer than the time it takes for the next show to start.

So it's definitely possible to be able to "do something" while in the park, we've just had to accept that some of the things we've looked forward to doing in the past could have a wait much longer than we are willing to endure.

 

[sms2015]

If you're going in October, I would think carefully about how you plan your FP+. If you want to try for a 4th FP+ and beyond, I would have your last of the 3 prebooked attractions scheduled to end by 1pm at the latest. We tried getting 4th FP+ in MK and DHS around 3:30pm (two separate days) in November, but there was virtually nothing left, especially in MK. With party guests coming in at 4pm (and being able to book FP+), and the park closing at 7, we really felt that impacted overall availability. We did not have as much flexibility as I've seen others post they've had here since January, and IMO party season had a lot to do with it.

Thanks for this info! On Oct 1, we are planning to be at MK by rope drop, cram as much in as possible before late brunch res at Chef Mickey's, rest and return for MNSSHP. Your post gives me some insight for my planning strategy!

 

[crostorfer]

Yep, that was one of the goals (I think anyway). But that's awesome that you guys found a way to still have a great time even though it is different.

For as hateful as I have been in the past, and could probably be now, about FP+, I just don't have the energy to debate about it any more. It's here to stay. As much as I miss the old system, we've been forced to find a way to work with the new. I don't think that I'm getting the value for my ticket like I used to, and that I'm getting a decreased experience for an increased price. That part still bothers me, but, obviously, we keep going back. They haven't ticked me off enough to completely lose my business yet. They just get fewer of my total Orlando vacation days, as my signature reflects.

 

[sms2015]

Just back from a seven night stay, FP+ was a complete failure for us. After the first day my wife's magic band quit working for park entry and fast passes. When we stopped by guest services at the MK they said they had to "reload" or "re-connect" her park ticket to our account. After they did this, she lost all of her fast passes for the remainder of our trip. Since we had made them months in advance, there was no way to get her back into our planned fast passes. She had to sit out when ever we had fast passes. We did try to let her use my band to use one of my fast passes, but the cast member caught her when my name appeared on the approval screen (my name is clearly not a common female name).

This was in addition to the inability to add additional fast passes from our phone app after the first three were used (which we found out at Disney is how the system was designed on purpose). My family also prefers to "wing it" when we go, often choosing which park we are going to the night before. The need to plan out months in advance which park we were going to or forgo the use of fast passes (at least for the popular attractions) was absolutely despised by our family. The whole experience really ticked us off and is a poor replacement for the previous version of the fast pass system.

Future trips will probably be planned without the use of FP+ for us.

That's horrible! Given the situation, I would have thought DIS would have given you some kind of hand-written explanation to hand to the FP line CMs, or given you enough paper return passes to rectify the situation. It was in no way your faults that her band stopped working, so something should have/could have been arranged for you.

 

[MrInfinity]

I feel like the summary here is that FP works great for people who are ok with only riding 3 rides a day. And I get why that's a successful day for you. If I were a local resident, it might be wonderful for me too. But everyone's circumstances are different.

We drive two days to get to WDW. We go once every year or 2 years. We pay roughly $60 per day for tickets. 3 rides per day at MK is not a successful day for us. Lucky for us, we rope drop and ride most things standby so we're not relegated to only riding 3 rides or waiting in interminably long lines. So far, for us, rope dropping has enabled us to essentially FP-proof our vacations. Whatever system is in place is not critical to us. Others were heavily dependent on FP- and their vacations have been very affected by the new system.

I agree here, the FP+ system is perfectly suited for someone who wants to come just for an evening, 4 hours or so. Just enough time to ride 3 big things, a few small things in between, have a snack, and leave. For us, coming for a week from far away, the challenge is much different. The balancing factor is that being a resort guest for a week, we can pick our FP+ times first. 60 days. That's a pretty big balance. So I can get the SDMT every day, A&E, and pick my other rides at the times I want them. The guest just popping in only gets to pick their 3 from what's available, after all the resort guests at 60 days and other resort guests at 30 days picked theirs. I think this is fine. They get to have the majority of their time be FP+ rides, but only those rides that I or other resort guests haven't already chosen.

It all works out. I really think FP+ benefits both sides quite well. Like a good constitution, a flexible system that accommodates all these different styles of touring is perfect. And FP+ is just that. FP- really only benefited the one type of guest -- the FP- commando (or "user" for those who did not consider themselves commandos nor wore fatigues). Under FP-, if you did not follow the strict plan of knowing where to go to pull tickets early and queuing them up, you'd simply be left out, and that's why FP- had an abysmal adoption rate, and why it was so great for those few. FP+ fixed so much, making a system that works for so many different touring styles... from the week-long resort guest, to the day-passer, to the AP holder who wants to stop in for a few hours after work, to the park hopper, the rope dropper, really everyone.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I do feel, however, that it had only been recently that those of us who toured as I've bolded have received acknowledgement that FP+ is not a positive for us.
For over a year I've more often than not encountered posters who (1) directed me to stop whining and get used to it, (2) called me a superuser/abuser, (3) simply couldn't/wouldn't acknowledge that FP+ changed WDW for my family in a decidedly negative way.

I appreciate the shift in acknowledgment that is becoming evident in posts from some FP+ proponents. I very much hope this is a board where people can freely discuss touring strategies regardless of their view of FP+.

I wish people didn't feel so passionate about convincing others that some are right and others are wrong b/c of their preferences. If we allowed each group to share strategies within threads without folks jumping in to "correct" them and derail into debates (this could go either way) these boards would be a lot more helpful.

Equally, those of us on the other side of the fence appreciate the respectful
Observations they have given.

It seems we are all coming to terms. And that is a good thing that allows the discussion to move forward and be helpful.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Agree with the above. We've found we need to be much more flexible. Our own personal situation doesn't make getting to the park early in the morning for rope drop a reasonable possibility, so we have to play with the cards that are dealt to us.

Yesterday afternoon, for example, we were disappointed to find a 105 minute wait time for Space Mountain. But the two secondary attractions in the area had much shorter waits (PeopleMover and Carousel of Progress) so we elected to do those instead and then move to another area of the park for other attractions like Hall of Presidents and Philharmagic where wait times are usually no longer than the time it takes for the next show to start.

So it's definitely possible to be able to "do something" while in the park, we've just had to accept that some of the things we've looked forward to doing in the past could have a wait much longer than we are willing to endure.

That makes sense.

We have had to make similar accommodations for our logistics at times. Sometimes that means avoiding what we would really like to do since we don't want to wait in a triple
Digit minute wait line. Or sometimes we (our term for our family) suck it up and brave the 90 minute line.

But *for us*, we have had to make similar accommodations before. So it isn't all that different for us except we can now try to book a FP+ ahead of
Time to mitigate the impact of those accommodations.

 

[momof2n2]

Agree with the above. We've found we need to be much more flexible. Our own personal situation doesn't make getting to the park early in the morning for rope drop a reasonable possibility, so we have to play with the cards that are dealt to us.

Yesterday afternoon, for example, we were disappointed to find a 105 minute wait time for Space Mountain. But the two secondary attractions in the area had much shorter waits (PeopleMover and Carousel of Progress) so we elected to do those instead and then move to another area of the park for other attractions like Hall of Presidents and Philharmagic where wait times are usually no longer than the time it takes for the next show to start.

So it's definitely possible to be able to "do something" while in the park, we've just had to accept that some of the things we've looked forward to doing in the past could have a wait much longer than we are willing to endure.

FMB - my kids will look at me like the dudes on Mt Rushmore if I say, "Ooo - Space Mountain has too long a wait. Let's do Carousel of Progress & WWPM." I'm gonna need a better strategy than that.

 

[momof2n2]

Equally, those of us on the other side of the fence appreciate the respectful
Observations they have given.

It seems we are all coming to terms. And that is a good thing that allows the discussion to move forward and be helpful.

Now, maybe, just maybe, this kinder & gentler Dis can last.

BUT! I'm NEVER going to like tiering. No one will ever convince me that tiering was appreciated by their family.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Now, maybe, just maybe, this kinder & gentler Dis can last.

BUT! I'm NEVER going to like tiering. No one will ever convince me that tiering was appreciated by their family.

I am not a fan.

My husband gets really grumpy about it.

 

[larryz]

FMB - my kids will look at me like the dudes on Mt Rushmore if I say, "Ooo - Space Mountain has too long a wait. Let's do Carousel of Progress & WWPM." I'm gonna need a better strategy than that.

And how would you know how the dudes on Mr Rushmore look...?

 

[momof2n2]

And how would you know how the dudes on Mr Rushmore look...?

 

[WillAustin]

For us, there is no right or wrong. It's more "right for US" or "wrong for US". But you have to listen to what someone says if you're going to understand why what's "right for someone else" may be 100% "wrong for me". It's a "walk a mile in my shoes" kind of thing.

I guess where my opinion falls is that it's perfectly fine to describe our own negative experiences for all to see, whether it might add potential stress to someone else's future plans or not. As said before, I firmly believe that complaining both publicly and directly affects how they may adjust things in the future.

I have an adjusted strategy and will be in the parks for a long trip in 2 weeks, so we'll see.