Not sure how to Handle this situation! Point Problems

[ewebet]

Not sure how to handle this situation so I need your help.

We purchased a 150 point SSR contract 2 months ago. The ad on the TSS email said "150 points. Dec use year. 155 points currently available (143 + 12 borrowed points from 2011, borrowed points need to be used by 12/01/11, 138 points coming on 12/01/2011".

My contract states "Buyer to receive 12 borrowed points from the 2011 allocation which need to be used before 12/01/2011, 143 points from the 2010 allocation, 138 points from the 2011 allocation."

I just called member services today for the first time and found out that the 143 points are actually banked points from 2009. I spoke to 2 different Disney reps and they both told me the same thing. I had purchased this contract so we could have more points next year to do a trip to Aulani in Hawaii. So, the bottom line is all 155 points (143 + 12) need to be used by Dec of this year! Not what I signed up for!

When calling the TSS I was told 5 different people missed this when verifying the point allotments. Disney missed this during ROFR and the TSS missed it. The TSS is going to email Disney to see if the unbankable points can be banked due to the oversight! I only need 60 points banked.

Do you think the sellers misrepresented themselves? Is this a breach of contract of sorts? Not sure how this was overlooked but this is just my luck!
Any suggestions if Disney does not go for the re-banking of banked points?

Thanks,

 

[bobbyg4eagle]

IMO, buying resale has it's upside and downside. Pricing is the upside and all the other issues (like you're experiencing) are the downside. I am resolved to weighing the price savings against the delays, point problems etc. In the long run, the savings offsets the minor short term issues. A resale that goes off without a hitch is welcome, but not to be expected.

 

[rmcildw2m]

I think disney should give you the points since both parties messed up . I bought resale last year with banked points and all worked out well ,sorry yours has not so far .

 

[cvjw]

Am I missing something here? You get extra 2009 points that you didn't know about, and the rest of the points are there as well? Extra points are a good thing in my book. If 12 points are borrowed, just bank the 143 2010 points into 2011 and use with your 2011 points for your Aulani trip. Take an extra trip with the 2009 and 12 borrowed points this year.

 

[ewebet]

We did not get any 2010 points, just the 143 2009 banked points that were sold to us as 2010 points that were not banked. No extra points!

 

[princessdawn2011]

I'm confused too. How are there no other points if you BOUGHT the contract? Doesn't make much sense at all & it would seem someone owes you some points. Also believe points are only available a TOTAL of 24 months. None of what you purchased sounds right.

 

[Chuck S]

I would contact Member Accounting/administration and send/fax them copies of your documents.

 

[ewebet]

My contract states "Buyer to receive 12 borrowed points from the 2011 allocation which need to be used before 12/01/2011, 143 points from the 2010 allocation, 138 points from the 2011 allocation."

When speaking to Disney today for the first time I was told the 2010 contract points are not for 2010 but have been banked from the 2009 allocation. So the contract should have read 143 banked points from 2009, no 2010 points, 12 borrowed points from 2011 and 138 points in Dec 2011.

I hope that clears up the confusion.

 

[DebbieB]

The fact that there are borrowed points sitting there means there had to be a reservation cancellation at one time. Maybe there was a mixup with a reservation that was cancelled, perhaps the seller thought the cancellation was with the current year points when in fact it was the banked points and those were left in the account.

 

[DOCDDS]

Not sure how to handle this situation so I need your help.

We purchased a 150 point SSR contract 2 months ago. The ad on the TSS email said "150 points. Dec use year. 155 points currently available (143 + 12 borrowed points from 2011, borrowed points need to be used by 12/01/11, 138 points coming on 12/01/2011".

My contract states "Buyer to receive 12 borrowed points from the 2011 allocation which need to be used before 12/01/2011, 143 points from the 2010 allocation, 138 points from the 2011 allocation."

I just called member services today for the first time and found out that the 143 points are actually banked points from 2009. I spoke to 2 different Disney reps and they both told me the same thing. I had purchased this contract so we could have more points next year to do a trip to Aulani in Hawaii. So, the bottom line is all 155 points (143 + 12) need to be used by Dec of this year! Not what I signed up for!

When calling the TSS I was told 5 different people missed this when verifying the point allotments. Disney missed this during ROFR and the TSS missed it. The TSS is going to email Disney to see if the unbankable points can be banked due to the oversight! I only need 60 points banked.

Do you think the sellers misrepresented themselves? Is this a breach of contract of sorts? Not sure how this was overlooked but this is just my luck!
Any suggestions if Disney does not go for the re-banking of banked points?

Thanks,

Based on what is going on over at Disney regarding contracts being bought and sold in the non-Disney enviornment, I would be surprised if you are going to get any relief from Disney. Unless you are a good little mouse playing in Disney's sandbox by Disney's rules, there is no incentive for them to make things right for you. If, however, you bought through Disney, I am sure they would bend over backwards for you.

 

[Dean]

There's still the question of what happened to the 2010 points. As presented, I would pressure TSS to get me the points WITHOUT using the one time double secret banking exception. What they've done so far would likely USE this exception if carried out. Realize this means you overpaid (compared to what you thought you were getting) by around $1500 AND/OR you paid dues on points you didn't get to the tune of around $750. OF course it's not $1500 plus $750 both though.

I think it's unlikely that everyone missed it, esp Disney. More likely DVC sent them the info they've communicated with you and they closed you anyway, possibly with the closing company not realizing the discrepancy. Let us know what happens please.

 

[dianeschlicht]

You certainly aren't getting what you paid for. I'd be contacting the resale company about it. Listen to Dean....He is the guru on this stuff!

 

[cvjw]

Oh, that isn't good. I think I would be going back to my resale company for help on that one. You certainly didn't get what you paid for! I would want compensation for the missing 2010 points, and reimbursement for any MFs paid on the 2010 points.

 

[briand1023]

Maybe the resale company will pay for you to "Rent" 60 points off another person so you can book your Alunai(sp?) trip. its about $660 based on $11 per point over at Rent/Trade board.

 

[ewebet]

There's still the question of what happened to the 2010 points. As presented, I would pressure TSS to get me the points WITHOUT using the one time double secret banking exception. What they've done so far would likely USE this exception if carried out. Realize this means you overpaid (compared to what you thought you were getting) by around $1500 AND/OR you paid dues on points you didn't get to the tune of around $750. OF course it's not $1500 plus $750 both though.

I think it's unlikely that everyone missed it, esp Disney. More likely DVC sent them the info they've communicated with you and they closed you anyway, possibly with the closing company not realizing the discrepancy. Let us know what happens please.

Dean;

I checked my paperwork to see what I paid in MF's and found out we paid correctly for the 2011 allocation of 138 points. What was the $1500 figure you mentioned above? Also, do you think the sellers knew about this and said nothing? Truly, what recourse do I have at this time?

Still waiting for TSS to get back to me. My rep is off until Friday but he said he would be checking his email to see if Disney responded to the email he sent last night.

Thanks,

 

[Dean]

Dean;

I checked my paperwork to see what I paid in MF's and found out we paid correctly for the 2011 allocation of 138 points. What was the $1500 figure you mentioned above? Also, do you think the sellers knew about this and said nothing? Truly, what recourse do I have at this time?

Still waiting for TSS to get back to me. My rep is off until Friday but he said he would be checking his email to see if Disney responded to the email he sent last night.

Thanks,

If you paid fees on 138 points, you didn't pay correctly IMO. Dues are done on a Calendar year basis. The dues paid on Jan by the seller for a Dec contract were for 11 months of the 2010 UY and 1 month of the 2011 UY. The $1500 is based on a reasonable rental value of the lost points. The $750 was based on if you paid dues for those which in effect, you did. I'd say you got a value equivalent to about $2000 less than you thought you were getting. Maybe it's still a good deal for you, maybe it's not with these developments.

In fairness, most brokers take the stance you get the points you pay the dues but in the case of DVC, this is incorrect thinking and essentially creates an overpayment of the dues which is most exaggerated for a Dec UY. All you've got to ask yourself is what would the dues be if you bought from DVD directly. You also have to somewhat ignore the banked points because they are of limited value. In the case of a Dec UY with no 2010 points, you'd pay ONE month of dues directly if all 150 points were there. IF the 2010 points were ALL there, you'd pay from the date you signed a prorated amount as a fraction of the remaining calendar.

 

[Tamar]

I'd personally be less concerned about the dues and more concerned about the UY of the points. I've had very good experiences with TSS both buying and selling, but if they "missed" this detail on the listing and the contract, I'd say they owe you some compensation. They can go back to the sellers if the contract was mis-represented to them, but they were paid a 10% commission on the sale and should make you whole before they keep any money (IMO).

 

[ewebet]

If you paid fees on 138 points, you didn't pay correctly IMO. Dues are done on a Calendar year basis. The dues paid on Jan by the seller for a Dec contract were for 11 months of the 2010 UY and 1 month of the 2011 UY. The $1500 is based on a reasonable rental value of the lost points. The $750 was based on if you paid dues for those which in effect, you did. I'd say you got a value equivalent to about $2000 less than you thought you were getting. Maybe it's still a good deal for you, maybe it's not with these developments.

In fairness, most brokers take the stance you get the points you pay the dues but in the case of DVC, this is incorrect thinking and essentially creates an overpayment of the dues which is most exaggerated for a Dec UY. All you've got to ask yourself is what would the dues be if you bought from DVD directly. You also have to somewhat ignore the banked points because they are of limited value. In the case of a Dec UY with no 2010 points, you'd pay ONE month of dues directly if all 150 points were there. IF the 2010 points were ALL there, you'd pay from the date you signed a prorated amount as a fraction of the remaining calendar.

Hi Dean,

I sent you a private message.

Thanks

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'd personally be less concerned about the dues and more concerned about the UY of the points. I've had very good experiences with TSS both buying and selling, but if they "missed" this detail on the listing and the contract, I'd say they owe you some compensation. They can go back to the sellers if the contract was mis-represented to them, but they were paid a 10% commission on the sale and should make you whole before they keep any money (IMO).

The interesting part is that TSS doesn't ask the buyer how many points are in the contract. They contact DVC for that info before they list a contract. Of course the seller sees it in the sales agreement and the closing contract but it sounds like things were missed by all three - DVC, TSS and the seller.

 

[GoofItUp]

I would think TTS could transfer points to your contract at their expense to make up for the lost points. I know there are some limitations to banking/borrowing transferred points, but if you know you want to use them next year for a trip to Aulani, this solution could work out for all parties.

I will say that I think things like this and the other "messes" we've read about in the last couple of months are the exception rather than the rule to buying resale. There are lots and lots and lots of contracts that go through without problems (except the agony of waiting, which is to be expected). I've bought 2 resale contracts and have saved a significant amount of money. I have not had any trouble with either transaction and would suggest this route to other people who are looking at buying. (Well, pre-3/20 I would have without hesitation. I'd have to re-think it now, but that's not the fault of the resale industry.)