Not really a title- but how do I explain this to DD's

[mudnuri]

Before I begin, please understand I mean no disrespect to parents of children with IEP's, or behavior modification plans, etc. I am trying to understand a way to explain whats going on to DD's

Both DD's classrooms, have children with IEP's. They are behavorial issue's behind the IEP's. One boy in DD9's class who is a good friend of hers has an IEP for his behavior issue's. He has been in DD9's class since Kindergarten and she is well aware of what he does, why, and what his consequences are for his actions. In general, his consequence for disruptive behavior, after reminders etc. is to go to Mrs. S who is on the "behavior team" and she deals with getting him back on task etc. 99% of the time, he doesnt get to that point. 2-3 reminders and he's back on task.

Fast forward to this year. With new students from the closing of one elementary school, DD has new kids in her class. Boy2, has behavior issues. However, as part of his "plan" (thats dds word) he is allowed to leave class when he is "unable to maintain control" What he does when he leaves class is go out on the playground or go down the hallway back and forth, or whatever he really "wants". When he goes out on the playground, it is VERY visible from DD's classroom windows. He has an Aide with him. The child will go out and swing, while DD and her classmates are doing there work, following directions etc.

DD can not understand why she has to follow the rules, do good work, try her best, and yet this other "boy" can do whatever he wants and never gets in trouble.

I tried to explain how some brains tick differently, and boy2's brain does not work like hers, he needs to release his energy in a different way etc.

She doesnt get it.

She has put a suggestion in the suggestion/comments box in her room. She told me it says this.

"it is not fair for some people to get to do what they want to when they want to when we can't"

She explained the s/c box is for compliments, or suggestions. it can not be mean, but if you have an honest question you can ask. Mrs. M her teacher advised her that it was a sufficient question, and she could certainly put it in the box for class council meeting next week.

I just dont know how to explain this so she grasps it. to her, this boy gets all the fun parts of school but none of the work. She has made the comment that boy1 may leave the room, however he fixes his problem and comes back very quickly, while boy2 missed math and spelling and part of gym while he was outside with his aide on the swings.

I cant just do the "lifes not fair" because this is really bothering her. In case you cant tell, this is my sensative child

thanks
Brandy

 

[Disney Doll]

But "life's not fair" is the answer to the question. Life's not fair because this little boy has behavioral problems that your DD does not. Life's not fair because he is singled out for his "special" behavior in a way your DD is not. Life's not fair because everything is going to be harder for him and not for your DD because of his issues.

You've given her a good explanation, "because his brain works differently" etc. It just seems to me to be one of those things she's going to have to learn to live with.

 

[bananiem]

When I was helping in a 4th grade classroom a couple of years ago there was a new girl in class that had a mild form of cerebral palsy. Her mom came in and talked to the class about it and how she would cramp up sometimes and need to lie down. The kids listened really well and I think it helped the girl be accepted by the other kids. Granted, this is a different situation but I think having the parent or BD teacher come in and explain it to the kids would be a good thing.

 

[HayGan]

I can certainly understand your DD's frustrations. It would probably help for the children's teacher or someone familiar with the boy to explain why he does what he does. As a mother of a child in the autism spectrum, I can understand how one's child behavior can be questioned by their peers. It certainly sounds like the child may have some sensory issues. I may be wrong and it may be an attention/behavioral problem. Whatever it is, it will be hard for your DD and her classmates to understand the specifics on why he does what he does but it certainly may help for an adult to explain to them in terms that they will understand.

 

[jgmklmhem]

I can see where your daughter is upset and I know kids do have problems that need special attention....but in my opinion letting the kid go out and play seems to be going a bit overboard. Pacing the hall to blow off steam or whatever I can see....but the getting to go play due to behavioral issues seems to send the wrong message to the other kids as well as the kid having the problems. Not saying this kis is doing this but if I knew my acting up could get me a free trip to the playground...I might take advantage of that situation at least a few times and act up on purpose. Again I can see the pacing in the hall type of thing but in my opinion getting to go play while the other kids work seems wrong.

As for your explanation that is about as far as you can probably go.

 

[mudnuri]

DD's teacher emailed me this evening in regards to DD9's comment in the s/c box. She wanted to ask me if she had brought it up at home etc. Basically inquiring as to how much this is bothering DD, is it minor, or major etc. It's pretty minor in the scheme of things to DD, but she does question it. Especially if someone else gets reprimanded for doing the same thing boy2 does.

I sent her back an email that I knew DD had talked to her about the certain comment in the box, and that it seemed to be brought up only after someone else was in trouble for doing the same thing etc.

Her teacher said in her email that at class council Monday they will discuss why some people do what some people do, the way our brains are all different, she explained to me in the email that it will be more of a "susie, when you have a test, how do you feel?" "Tommy, when your having a bad day how do you deal with that?" To get the kids talking about how they do things differently etc. without pointing out certain children etc.

Personally I do not believe in the boy being allowed to just roam free (with an aide) and do as he pleases. In the past 3 years of DD's school, there was a boy a year older than her with autism, there were times for him when he had sensory overload, and he had a plan in action for this. it may have included going outside or what be it, but this boy had the need for that.

This boy2, as far as I can tell has all behavioral problems. of course i'm not a doctor, but thats my guess....obedient defiant issue's...lashing out- hitting the aide etc... not autistic issue's.

I will say that up until now i have been amazed at how the children in DD's school handle the day to day with children with moderate to severe disabilities. DD9 has a girl in her class that had serious problems at birth (we actually gave birth at the same time, in rooms next to one another) and has sensory issues stemming from that. The kids in DD's class and school have always done things to calm her. The boy I spoke of above, could be calmed by gently rubbing his back. Children knew this, and would just silently get up walk over to sit next to him, not say a word, and just gently rub his back. Beautiful thing to watch.

DD8 has a boy with spina bifida in her class, who is wheelchair bound. They think of him as "Tommy" not "tommy in a chair"...they all interact so well, thats why this new issue with DD9 and boy2 really concerned me. It had been such a non-issue up until now

Brandy

 

[isyne4u]

....but in my opinion letting the kid go out and play seems to be going a bit overboard.

It may seem a bit overboard, but that might be the only thing that can get him back on track. Kids with emotional issues or behavioral issues respond differently to stressful situations. I've seen where movement of some kind (ie. swinging) can help a child calm down and regroup.

I agree with Disney Doll's explanations of how life really isn't fair. That poor child sounds like he has a life that isn't fair to him either.

I think it is great that your dd wants to discuss it with the teacher. Maybe the teacher can explain it better to the entire class.

good luck to your sensitive child.
tara

 

[lvs_eeyore]

Your DD seems to be upset by basically this one child. She will not get the answers she is looking for at the meeting because basically they cannot discuss anything about any particular child when it comes to IEP or behavioral problems etc... It is against the law. They cant even discuss why he is able to do what he does. My child has an IEP.....basically for organizational skills and we were told this by the IEP team two years ago when his teacher asked what in the heck was she going to tell parents or kids when they asked why my son could do things that they couldnt. The teams answer was YOU DONT. It is against the privacy laws. They can discuss say ADHD in general or sensory overload in general but they cannot go into specifics as to why things are the way they are for certain kids.

 

[tw1nsmom]

It sounds as though this child may have SID (sensory integration disorder). It can exist in conjunction with other disorders (ADHD, autism...), or alone. It does not need to be partnered with other disorders to cause rather severe behavior problems.

A way to explain something like this to your DD is to say that if he's hypersensitive (as opposed to hyposensitive), things like tags and rough clothes might feel, to him, as though bugs and broken glass were dumped down his back. The hardness of his chair is like someone constantly pinching him. The lights and sounds of the classroom may be like blaring horns and strobe lights to him. If this happened to you all day, you would have concentration and behavior problems too. Sometimes removing yourself from the situation and doing soothing physical activity (swinging) is the only way to "hit the reset button" and get back on track.

Is the school handling this situation correctly by allowing him free reign of the school? Possibly not, but there's no way of knowing the details of this situation. Schools are rarely equipped to handle children with sensory issues.

 

[mudnuri]

Your DD seems to be upset by basically this one child. She will not get the answers she is looking for at the meeting because basically they cannot discuss anything about any particular child when it comes to IEP or behavioral problems etc... It is against the law. They cant even discuss why he is able to do what he does. My child has an IEP.....basically for organizational skills and we were told this by the IEP team two years ago when his teacher asked what in the heck was she going to tell parents or kids when they asked why my son could do things that they couldnt. The teams answer was YOU DONT. It is against the privacy laws. They can discuss say ADHD in general or sensory overload in general but they cannot go into specifics as to why things are the way they are for certain kids.

I did not mean in any way to imply that they would be discussing this childs IEP at the class council meeting. They are going to discuss different ways children deal with things that everyone deals with.

Its not an issue with this child...its the first time she's had a child in her class with an IEP that basically allows the child to do what she feels "anything he wants".....the other children in the class with IEP's or behavior modification plans, are brought back into the classroom much quicker than 2 hours later. They deal with the problem and back in.

I guess i'm not just explaining it properly, and I mean no disrespect to any child with an IEP

Brandy

 

[HayGan]

Personally I do not believe in the boy being allowed to just roam free (with an aide) and do as he pleases. In the past 3 years of DD's school, there was a boy a year older than her with autism, there were times for him when he had sensory overload, and he had a plan in action for this. it may have included going outside or what be it, but this boy had the need for that.

This boy2, as far as I can tell has all behavioral problems. of course i'm not a doctor, but thats my guess....obedient defiant issue's...lashing out- hitting the aide etc... not autistic issue's.

Each child within the autism spectrum is different and some display many of the behaviors that you are describing. Without knowing the child's diagnosis, please do not just say that it is a behavior problem. As a mother of a child in the spectrum, it is very hard to hear people talk about typical autistic behaviors verus what others perceive to behavior problems. My son is very well behaved but sometimes will have a fit in which some swinging or flailing or even defiance occurs. I know that you don't mean to offend anyone by your comments. I just like to educate people so that they can learn more about autism and be less judgemental when it comes to some children's actions/behavior. We often don't know what is happening in those precious little minds!

I think that you and your DD are handling the situation very appropriately. It sounds like that it would be helpful for the other kids to have a better understanding of what is going on without alienating the little boy in question. I have to say that I commend your DD's teacher for addressing the issue as well as having an outlet for the children to express their issues/concerns!

 

[HayGan]

Your DD seems to be upset by basically this one child. She will not get the answers she is looking for at the meeting because basically they cannot discuss anything about any particular child when it comes to IEP or behavioral problems etc... It is against the law. They cant even discuss why he is able to do what he does. My child has an IEP.....basically for organizational skills and we were told this by the IEP team two years ago when his teacher asked what in the heck was she going to tell parents or kids when they asked why my son could do things that they couldnt. The teams answer was YOU DONT. It is against the privacy laws. They can discuss say ADHD in general or sensory overload in general but they cannot go into specifics as to why things are the way they are for certain kids.

No but they can certainly talk about people in general being different and needing different attention. I don't think anyone is calling for them to say boy2 has so and so and does this because. There are many ways for a good educator to address the issues that are being faced in this classroom.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

After thinking about your post, I have to echo DD's "Life is not Fair" comment. Your dd is realizing that and it is confusing. I am sure she understood life was not fair but now she has to see it daily it seems.

I suppose I would approach it with her to help her think of other things when she starts to get bothered in class. Esp. if he is going to be swinging all year.
Slowly refocus her and by the end of the year she will "see".

It may take some time to do this. I suppose expecting her to "get it" right away is just not going to happen.

 

[Kermit]

First of all, I wouldn't really worry if she doesn't fully understand it right now. She's young. She'll keep bits and pieces of things she doesn't comprehend in the back of her mind, and as she gets older, it will all fall into place. It is important to try to explain it and to help her have a positive attitude about it, but it's too difficult a concept for her to really understand it fully right now.

Secondly, along the life isn't fair theme, you can help her see that this boy's life isn't all that great. When the teacher, for example, teaches a new math concept, she's going to be able to use that skill later in life to help her reach her goals. Right now, she's going to use that skill to pass a test. This little boy is undoubtedly struggling to catch up with concepts that he's missed because of his issues. I'd be careful to phrase it so that she doesn't pity him, but it can be explained so that she has compassion and sees the negatives of his situation.

 

[clh2]

Just a quick thought her...not wanting to stir up the pot or anything, so here goes.

Is it possible for the child with the IEP to do his playground time in a spot where the classroom can't see him? Or maybe the teacher could have the desks facing a different direction, so that if he was visible from the window - they wouldn't be seeing him as much?

 

[mudnuri]

First of all, I wouldn't really worry if she doesn't fully understand it right now. She's young. She'll keep bits and pieces of things she doesn't comprehend in the back of her mind, and as she gets older, it will all fall into place. It is important to try to explain it and to help her have a positive attitude about it, but it's too difficult a concept for her to really understand it fully right now.

Secondly, along the life isn't fair theme, you can help her see that this boy's life isn't all that great. When the teacher, for example, teaches a new math concept, she's going to be able to use that skill later in life to help her reach her goals. Right now, she's going to use that skill to pass a test. This little boy is undoubtedly struggling to catch up with concepts that he's missed because of his issues. I'd be careful to phrase it so that she doesn't pity him, but it can be explained so that she has compassion and sees the negatives of his situation.

excellent point, which will be made the next time she brings it up...thanks! I had not even thought about that part

Brandy

 

[Karel]

I would talk too about how different people might need various things to help them in their lives. Like a person with glasses, or a wheel chair.

I think it's a hard concept because going out and playing when you're suppose to be working looks like fun. It's the visual 'gosh, I wish I could do that' talking.

As a mother of two kids with IEP's, I think it's good for kids to ask questions and gain information.

 

[gr8tpanther]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOK, I LIVE with this everyday of my life! I have a DD12 who has... Bi-Polar/ADHD/PDD and then I have DD11 who is perfectly normal. HOWEVER, DD12 is just like the boy in your class who gets to do whatever he wants, while DD11 has to follow the rules etc. WHY? Because DD12 will get very violent if her buttons are pushed to far, and after many MANY MANY episodes of broken windows, lashing out at others, etc, letting her calm herself down is MUCH better of a choice. And even though DD11 has been living with this her ENTIRE life, she hates it, and she hates her sister and she hates everything associated with it. I have done everything in my power to help her deal with it and understand that this is just how her sister is. That her brain was broke when she was born and there is nothing we can do to fix it, but we can try to help her. However, these are not good enough answers anymore. We have been in therapy for a LONG time, we have done meds, we have done everything in our power to try and make life easy, but it doesn't work.

It is hard for kids who are normal to deal with kids who aren't. And life is what it is, and we are all different and that is the only thing I can tell you.

Hope she understands one day, just let her know that we are all different and life isn't fair.

 

[Forevryoung]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOK, I LIVE with this everyday of my life! I have a DD12 who has... Bi-Polar/ADHD/PDD and then I have DD11 who is perfectly normal. HOWEVER, DD12 is just like the boy in your class who gets to do whatever he wants, while DD11 has to follow the rules etc. WHY? Because DD12 will get very violent if her buttons are pushed to far, and after many MANY MANY episodes of broken windows, lashing out at others, etc, letting her calm herself down is MUCH better of a choice. And even though DD11 has been living with this her ENTIRE life, she hates it, and she hates her sister and she hates everything associated with it. I have done everything in my power to help her deal with it and understand that this is just how her sister is. That her brain was broke when she was born and there is nothing we can do to fix it, but we can try to help her. However, these are not good enough answers anymore. We have been in therapy for a LONG time, we have done meds, we have done everything in our power to try and make life easy, but it doesn't work.

It is hard for kids who are normal to deal with kids who aren't. And life is what it is, and we are all different and that is the only thing I can tell you.

Hope she understands one day, just let her know that we are all different and life isn't fair.

I have bipolar disorder- clearly have had it all my life and my parents have treated my younger sister and me differently because of our different "personalities". Because they treated me differently, my sister believed that I could "get away with anything" and we grew up nearly hating eachother. It took until she was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis to understand what it's like dealing with something completely out of your control every day (it super sucks). We have become closer within the past few months but it has been 6 years since I have been diagnosed. Thats a long time for her to hate me.

I agree with the poster who suggested not playing on the playground right in front of the window. It's sorta rubbing it in the other children's faces. Even if it is necessary to calm him-

 

[gr8tpanther]

I have bipolar disorder- clearly have had it all my life and my parents have treated my younger sister and me differently because of our different "personalities". Because they treated me differently, my sister believed that I could "get away with anything" and we grew up nearly hating eachother. It took until she was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis to understand what it's like dealing with something completely out of your control every day (it super sucks). We have become closer within the past few months but it has been 6 years since I have been diagnosed. Thats a long time for her to hate me.

I agree with the poster who suggested not playing on the playground right in front of the window. It's sorta rubbing it in the other children's faces. Even if it is necessary to calm him-

I am bi-polar too, but I was an only child for 12 years, and when my sister was born, I ignored her and went about my rage and self distruction, I KNOW what my DD12 goes through everyday, I just don't know how to help DD11 deal with it. And me being bi-polar too, DD12 and I clash constantly and her rages become my rages and it isn't always a good thing. My mother lives next door and when she hears it starting, she comes to intervene.

Life sucks, isn't fair, but we have to play the hand we are dealt no matter what.