Not doing DDP mainly because I hate leaving large tips.

[duffdo]

The tipping issue has come up before. I agree that if you are on DDP and eating TS every night, after 14 or even 21 nights it can become very expensive. You have to bear in mind however, Disney often offer massive incentives to UK guests which US guests would never receive. On my November trip we booked SSR massively early and got maximum discount (30%) on the room, $200 gift card and free DDP. I find it difficult to get my head around tips making up part of wages, as we have a minimum wage in the UK, but have never not paid the 15-18%. I think 15% is acceptable for buffets. I think it is our responsibility to pay tips in the US at the appropriate levels, no matter the cultural differences!

 

[flortlebap]

Incidentally, the minimum wage in the US for waiters etc is only $2.13 per hour, with the expectation that tips will give a minimum of $7.25 per hour. If tips don't make it up to that level, the employer MUST make up the difference - but it's still quite low. Our minimum wage is £6.19 per hour and I can't imagine orlando being cheap to live in.

Anyway - we might be subsidising salaries with tips, but in short, if we didn't bother, the restaurant would have to make up the workers salaries with their profits so we'd be paying the same amount, whether through gratuities or menu pricing...

 

[Evoga]

They must earn a lot from tips as I have seen a lot of the same servers in wdw in over 20 years. Cape May Cafe springs to mind.

 

[US020]

I very rarely tip.

Tipping is not a legal requirement, hence I will not be tipping just because 'that's the way the US is'.

It is misleading for you to think that a waiter gets paid from tips and earns the minimum from the company itself. What you will find out is that the company compensates for their salary if at the end of their shift they do not meet sufficient tips. This is why if you ever try to ask if it's required, no company is going to say to not tip.

I tip on occasion, however if you are eating out in a group of seven, and the bill is ~$250, I am not giving $50 for a waiter bringing me food from the kitchen. Deduct $50 from my bill, and I will go and walk up myself.

Do not feel pressurised to tip. By all means, tip if you think the service was good and you are in a good mood but don't think because it the 'USA way' that you must go with the flow.

 

[greengeen]

I very rarely tip.

Tipping is not a legal requirement, hence I will not be tipping just because 'that's the way the US is'.

It is misleading for you to think that a waiter gets paid from tips and earns the minimum from the company itself. What you will find out is that the company compensates for their salary if at the end of their shift they do not meet sufficient tips. This is why if you ever try to ask if it's required, no company is going to say to not tip.

I tip on occasion, however if you are eating out in a group of seven, and the bill is ~$250, I am not giving $50 for a waiter bringing me food from the kitchen. Deduct $50 from my bill, and I will go and walk up myself.

Do not feel pressurised to tip. By all means, tip if you think the service was good and you are in a good mood but don't think because it the 'USA way' that you must go with the flow.

Again, someone who should not be dining in the US at all, ever. A tip is required. Just because you won't be arrested doesn't mean you shouldn't tip. Anyone who can afford to fly over for two or three weeks and stay in a resort should be able to pay the customary, EXPECTED tip at a restaurant. If you can't afford it, don't try to rationalize it away.

 

[2Tiggies]

By all means, tip if you think the service was good and you are in a good mood but don't think because it the 'USA way' that you must go with the flow.

I'm sorry but are you serious?!

I expect international visitors coming to the UK to at least make some effort to respect and abide by our lifestyle and ways of doing things. Where it may be perfectly acceptable in some countries to stick your feet on the table, push in front of someone in a line (you get the idea - and yes there are cultures where this is a way of life and not seen as rude) but I see that as rude and my level of tolerance doesn't up too many notches just because "they're not from here"

Likewise, if you choose to visit another country it may not be law, but it's only polite and respectful to honor their customs and way of life - whether you agree or not. Just my 2c

As far as how much servers earn, I quite honestly don't care. I'm more interested with who the huge chunk of tax deducted off my monthly salary is going to fund, and I don't think I need to elaborate on that one.

 

[2Tiggies]

Alluding to a previous post I made on this thread in re. Disney pricing, have a glance at the increases for buffet style restaurants at WDW in this thread:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3108466

Case in point

 

[Aliceacc]

I very rarely tip.

Tipping is not a legal requirement, hence I will not be tipping just because 'that's the way the US is'. Holding the door for the person behind you isn't a legal requirement either. Yet it's still something we do. I refuse to set the bar for my behavior at "anything is OK, as long as it's not illegal. "

It is misleading for you to think that a waiter gets paid from tips and earns the minimum from the company itself. What you will find out is that the company compensates for their salary if at the end of their shift they do not meet sufficient tips What gave you that idea?? It was not the case in any restaurant I've ever worked in or heard of. There were nights when it was stormy and I served a single table of two in an entire shift. And then I had to pay the busboy. This is why if you ever try to ask if it's required, no company is going to say to not tip. Um, no. They'll tell you that the tip is normally between 15% and 20% because they know that otherwise their employees aren't getting paid for the work they've done.

I tip on occasion, however if you are eating out in a group of seven, and the bill is ~$250, I am not giving $50 for a waiter bringing me food from the kitchen. Deduct $50 from my bill, and I will go and walk up myself. That's called counter service. It will save you a lot of money

Do not feel pressurised to tip. By all means, tip if you think the service was good and you are in a good mood but don't think because it the 'USA way' that you must go with the flow.

This is most definitley my cue to unsubscribe.

 

[Elise79]

Well we are off to Disney next month, we have decided not to do the DDP this year. To be honest I feel the value has been sucked out of it over the years the starter went the distance, the included tip was removed (apparently people prefer paying this themselves, who are they trying to kid !!).

We made our reservations as normal but have since decided to dump the plan and pay in cash. I feel we will make a saving as there are many times that the dessert is eaten simply to gain value of the plan and a few less calories will not do me any harm.

I will also be inclined not to simply go for the steak but probably check out a few less expensive items on the menu. The further added benefit will of course the near compulsory huge tip which incidentally I detest will be reduced.

I never understood why in the US it is a percentage of the bill, does a server really do any more work bringing two fillet steaks and a $100 bottle of wine to my table than when they bring two burgers and cokes yet god forbid if they dont get their ludicrous 18 - 20%.

So at least this year I can look forward to dishing out a little less of my hard earned to over paid servers which to be honest was beginning to put me off the more expensive foods on the menu anyway.

This to me sounds more like the DDP is not a good fit for you as you like us are DVC members.

We have the DDP this time free as we are staying at OKW through the Disney UK deal and it has reminded me why we don't do the paid DP and it has nothing to d with the tips. For us it is too much food and would be too much work to get a value from it. I found the desserts at most places to not be exciting so I generally don't bother.

Sometimes I like an appetiser too which isn't covered.

The other thing is I do not need or want a dessert with a CS which is the only way to break even and I quite often share a large drink with DH and food with DD.

I know therefore the DDP does not fit our style of eating and that's without the days out like yesterday and today where we ate away from property for all meals.

Consider TIW - it costs $100 but after spending $500 your saving money. I look at it like I have had my tips paid. You will pay an automatic 18% but I have no issue with this as we would leave at least that most times and I would be happy to ask for a manager if service was not up to stratch but in 4 years I have never had to.

The other thing for us is we always have a car so eating offsite is not an issue if we fancy it and I don't have to book 6 months in advance. There are some truly excellent restaurants in th area.

I don't know where you heard that but I would be stunned if that were true. Disney are among the lowest paying employers in the country because they work on the premise that it is an honour to work for them and they are never struggling to find staff for ANY position. There are a couple of servers at WDW that offer exemplary service and have done for years. Ricardo at the Yachtsman springs to mind here. I'm sure he earns a very good wage (we have tipped him 30+% in the past) because he offers an amazing service. However, I would doubt that even he makes $100k a year.

I have heard ths from a very reliable source. It is waiters at places like CM & CP.

I very rarely tip.

Tipping is not a legal requirement, hence I will not be tipping just because 'that's the way the US is'.

It is misleading for you to think that a waiter gets paid from tips and earns the minimum from the company itself. What you will find out is that the company compensates for their salary if at the end of their shift they do not meet sufficient tips. This is why if you ever try to ask if it's required, no company is going to say to not tip.

I tip on occasion, however if you are eating out in a group of seven, and the bill is ~$250, I am not giving $50 for a waiter bringing me food from the kitchen. Deduct $50 from my bill, and I will go and walk up myself.

Do not feel pressurised to tip. By all means, tip if you think the service was good and you are in a good mood but don't think because it the 'USA way' that you must go with the flow.

Your right its not a legal requirement however it a customary expectation and if you are planning a trip to the us the tip should be included in your budget.

 

[flortlebap]

I very rarely tip.

Tipping is not a legal requirement, hence I will not be tipping just because 'that's the way the US is'.

It is misleading for you to think that a waiter gets paid from tips and earns the minimum from the company itself. What you will find out is that the company compensates for their salary if at the end of their shift they do not meet sufficient tips. This is why if you ever try to ask if it's required, no company is going to say to not tip.

I tip on occasion, however if you are eating out in a group of seven, and the bill is ~$250, I am not giving $50 for a waiter bringing me food from the kitchen. Deduct $50 from my bill, and I will go and walk up myself.

Do not feel pressurised to tip. By all means, tip if you think the service was good and you are in a good mood but don't think because it the 'USA way' that you must go with the flow.

Sorry but that is NOT acceptable.

You go to another country, you stick to their rules and customs. Period.

By that logic would you go to Morocco or Dubai and refuse to cover up because you don't happen to agree with the national religious requirements?

 

[chmurf]

Likewise, if you choose to visit another country it may not be law, but it's only polite and respectful to honor their customs and way of life - whether you agree or not. Just my 2c

I'm totally with you on that one.

I'll even add this :

In many countries, tradition is often more important than Laws. Sometimes Tradition IS the law, and sometimes it's only Oral Tradition

UK people should understand this more than anyone else, because the UK is based on such traditions, regarding the Constitution for example, which is not "set in stone" like other european countries, but has a lot of unwritten codes and sources, and is (in spirit) as close as law by tradition as a country can get.

traditions, habits and customs are often a Law in themselves (even it it's only Moral Law).
The fact that there is no sentence or penalty for not respecting them does not mean that it's ok to not respect them.

It's probably the difference between being a considerate tourist, and being a ruffian.

(of course if service was poor that's another story)

 

[lizzi6692]

I very rarely tip.

Tipping is not a legal requirement, hence I will not be tipping just because 'that's the way the US is'.

It is misleading for you to think that a waiter gets paid from tips and earns the minimum from the company itself. What you will find out is that the company compensates for their salary if at the end of their shift they do not meet sufficient tips. This is why if you ever try to ask if it's required, no company is going to say to not tip.

I tip on occasion, however if you are eating out in a group of seven, and the bill is ~$250, I am not giving $50 for a waiter bringing me food from the kitchen. Deduct $50 from my bill, and I will go and walk up myself.

Do not feel pressurised to tip. By all means, tip if you think the service was good and you are in a good mood but don't think because it the 'USA way' that you must go with the flow.

You obviously understand nothing about being a server in the US. Yes if a server "makes less than minimum wage" in theory the employer is supposed to pay the difference. But do you know how that is decided? By multiplying the amount of money their tables spent on food by a flat percent(I believe the standard is currently 11%). For most servers that means it will always look like they make minimum wage, whether they do or not. And if they try to argue, they'll be fired(my mother was a server the majority of my life and she witnessed this happen to multiple people).
If you want to be cheap, that's on you. But don't try to rationalize it or attempt to convince others to do the same.

 

[nighttowll]

As an American, I was always taught at a sit down restaurant you do 10 to 20 percent. At buffets, we always did less sometimes nothing depending on set up and to go orders 2 to 3 dollars. This is never presented as optional. Yes, it is not a law, but it is a given and would be seen as very rude not to tip. Not tipping signifies the meal and service were awful, and encourages bad service in the future.

As a rule, I always tip 15% and then go up or down from there. Occasionally, I might do 25 or 30 but only in special circumstances. For instance, I have gotten to know a few local servers who go out of there way to make my meals really great (free food, glass always full, great attitude, etc.), so when one of them happens to bring me free appetizers and desserts, I will usually tip him a little extra. Still less than what paying for the free food would have been.

I never don't tip. If the meal and service are that bad, I'm not paying at all. I will ask to see a manager and politely tell him my issues. Usually, they will tell you not to worry about the bill or ask how they can make it better. This accomplishes two things, I get what I want (comped for my awful meal) and hopefully, the waiter/cook/etc get a lesson or help to make things better for the next person. In this type of situation, no one would expect you to tip, but you should always make your problem known to management so it can addressed. Otherwise, you just look rude and cheap and no one ever knows there is a problem to be resolved.

I do have to agree, however, that tipping 18% for a buffet is ridiculous. I wouldn't tip that for someone to bring me drinks and clear a few plates. But as others have also said, its Disney. I go into it knowing they are ripping me off. I wouldn't pay anywhere near their prices outside of Disney for the same types of food. That's why we split meals, bring our own snacks, and stay in a villa with a kitchen, so we can cook most of the meals.

 

[US020]

Again, someone who should not be dining in the US at all, ever. A tip is required. Just because you won't be arrested doesn't mean you shouldn't tip. Anyone who can afford to fly over for two or three weeks and stay in a resort should be able to pay the customary, EXPECTED tip at a restaurant. If you can't afford it, don't try to rationalize it away.

I can afford it, I am not there to be ripped off. It is not legally required so I will not be forced to give away 20% of the bill each time someone just brings me a plate and some drinks.

You keep using the world should put it in their buget - there is no should. It is what most people do, I am putting my point across to people that it IS NOT REQUIRED. You make the CHOICE to tip or not - far to many people are pressurised into thinking that its legal and hence do not question it.

Let people make a choice to tip, not be pressurised.

I'm sorry but are you serious?!

I expect international visitors coming to the UK to at least make some effort to respect and abide by our lifestyle and ways of doing things. Where it may be perfectly acceptable in some countries to stick your feet on the table, push in front of someone in a line (you get the idea - and yes there are cultures where this is a way of life and not seen as rude) but I see that as rude and my level of tolerance doesn't up too many notches just because "they're not from here"

Likewise, if you choose to visit another country it may not be law, but it's only polite and respectful to honor their customs and way of life - whether you agree or not. Just my 2c

As far as how much servers earn, I quite honestly don't care. I'm more interested with who the huge chunk of tax deducted off my monthly salary is going to fund, and I don't think I need to elaborate on that one.

Yes I am serious. The points you make are much different to just tipping and although carry the same principle are somewhat obvious that you would adhere to in another country.

This is most definitley my cue to unsubscribe.

Of course,.... you are biased.

Again, the point you make regarding holding the door although carries the same principle (re: legal), however it is completely different to this.

Check out the law, we all know that the company makes up for your salary if it is not met. Whether they check the salary for the day, or average it out over the year - if you've earnt the minimum salary but one night you only get 30$ then they've met the law as they only need to pay when your salary overall < minimum legal requirements.

Your right its not a legal requirement however it a customary expectation and if you are planning a trip to the us the tip should be included in your budget.

Keyword, expectation. You can quite easily save $800 not tipping everywhere (note I tip some places). Why not have that $800 go to your family. Not a question whether someone can afford it or not, $800 for your family is better than $800 given to people doing their job (which they are already paid to do).

If anything, the companies are the ones in the wrong and should be paying more so that staff do not rely on tips. It can't be legal for a company to not pay minimum wage to someone doing a job where the 'tip' section of their wage is not legally required. Oh wait, that already exists and a company makes up for their wage in the end!

Sorry but that is NOT acceptable.

You go to another country, you stick to their rules and customs. Period.

By that logic would you go to Morocco or Dubai and refuse to cover up because you don't happen to agree with the national religious requirements?

Acceptable from who, the waiters serving me? Of course it isn't they are expecting 20% of a bill for doing their job of taking my order, bringing my plates and dinner. Was that not in their job description? What did they think their job involved?

Calculate how much they can earn if everyone tipped (and by the pressurisation, I imagine many do). In one hour on one table alone they can earn $30 plus hourly rate. So call it $35 per hour, that is ~£23 per hour.

Rules and customs? You mean their expectations from customers.

I agree, the logic is the same but again, your point is far off the mark. You are getting expectations mixed up with requirements. Its legally required there, is it not? So I wouldn't mess around with that - especially with the news coverage of people going to prison etc.

My point: Notify and let people know that tipping is not required. I can guarantee you that if you go onto an aircraft going to the USA and rally up a questionnaire the majority of people will believe that it is legal requirement to tip and hence do not question if they should do it. Give people a choice, not pressurise them.


Edit

You obviously understand nothing about being a server in the US. Yes if a server "makes less than minimum wage" in theory the employer is supposed to pay the difference. But do you know how that is decided? By multiplying the amount of money their tables spent on food by a flat percent(I believe the standard is currently 11%). For most servers that means it will always look like they make minimum wage, whether they do or not. And if they try to argue, they'll be fired(my mother was a server the majority of my life and she witnessed this happen to multiple people).
If you want to be cheap, that's on you. But don't try to rationalize it or attempt to convince others to do the same.

I am not trying to convince anyone to not tip. I imagine there are readers who will be shocked in that I have revelead tipping is not legally required.

Whenever this topic is brought up, look at the defense... no wonder it is not clear anywhere for people. Most people assume it is by law required so why on earth would they question it!

If anything, me highlighting this is allowing people to CHOOSE whether they should or not. Your view, and many others here is trying to hide it and saying that you MUST go with the flow of the majority of people and tip tip tip.

As a rule, I always tip 15% and then go up or down from there. Occasionally, I might do 25 or 30 but only in special circumstances. For instance, I have gotten to know a few local servers who go out of there way to make my meals really great (free food, glass always full, great attitude, etc.), so when one of them happens to bring me free appetizers and desserts, I will usually tip him a little extra. Still less than what paying for the free food would have been.

That point you make here, are you really tipping though? You have calculated you are net in the better position money wise... so even though you are tipping you are doing so for the benefit of yourself - which goes against the 'I tip because its the way of life' discussion here.

 

[edinburghlass]

legally correct or morally correct? I know which one I go for

 

[US020]

legally correct or morally correct? I know which one I go for

That's up to you, because you have made a choice.

The point I am highlighting here is people don't see it as a choice because they are pressurised into it.

Let people know it is not required, and if they still want to tip - that's great.

Don't scare people into thinking its legally required and if you don't the cops will be coming for you. As daft as it sounds on a forum, many people think of it in that way and hence just tip - even if they don't want to.

 

[2Tiggies]

Yes I am serious.

In that case we could have ended this thread with Aliceacc's recommendation for you:

Eat Counter service.
Or shop at Walmart and pack a picnic if that suits you better.

I worked 40+ hours a week as a server, for years at the same time as studying full time, to fund my further education. I only managed to pay for my studies and pay to live through the tips. The minimal pay I received from employers was nominal enough that had it been removed entirely, it wouldn't have made much difference.

Your attitude is ignorant and offensive IMO

 

[nighttowll]

That point you make here, are you really tipping though? You have calculated you are net in the better position money wise... so even though you are tipping you are doing so for the benefit of yourself - which goes against the 'I tip because its the way of life' discussion here.[/QUOTE]

Of course I'm doing it for the benefit of myself. I keep the servers happy; they keep me happy, and the above scenario is where I give extra tip on top of say the 20% I am already giving.

But I do also tip just because that's what I have to do from a cultural standpoint. No one goes around saying gee I'm so glad about tipping. If I felt I had a choice, I wouldn't at all. If you ask an American, there isn't a choice. You just have to do it. Legally no, socially yes.

Plus as others have stated waiters really do only make 2 or 3 dollars and usually work only part time. Companies know how to work the loopholes, so even if the law says they have to make up the diff, it doesn't mean they do. Also, at many restaurants the tips don't go directly to the waiter but to a pool of people (bus boys, hostesses, cooks, dish washers, janitors, etc). All those people are making less than minimum wage. A 10 tip may mean each only gets 2 dollars apiece.

Yes, the whole system could be changed, but then we'd all have to pay more for our meals, meaning we'd pay about the same as we are now including 20% tips. The only difference would be that there would be no incentive for providing good service and no way to tip less for mediocre service. I'd also be out all those free desserts, I'm getting now.

I don't know anyone who doesn't tip. Can't name one person. It's not that some people do this. It's that all people do this, excluding the 1% of people out there who feel as you do.

I'm sure you can get away without tipping, and on vacation, I probably could too. Back at home, however, I never could. What kind of service do you think I'd get if I didn't tip and then returned for a second meal there? I hate to think the kinds of things that might get done to my food. But even if I wasn't concerned about that, it would get all over town that I didn't tip, and I would get an awful reputation. Even on vacation, though, I can't bring myself to not tip. It would just be too embarrassing. You just don't not tip. It's just too ingrained into my head, too much of a stigma there. Even if service is bad, you tip 1 penny.

However, you are legally in your right to not tip, and I can understand your wanting to save money especially if that means the difference between being able to go on vacation or not. However, I wouldn't advise going to the same restaurant twice, and I'd expect to be seen as a rude cheapskate. Weather right or wrong that is how you will be viewed.

I'm not saying I view you that way. I understand your points. It's just from an American standpoint not tipping is taboo. It is basically the same as telling the servers you hate them, the food, the service, the restaurant, etc. so don't expect to be liked for it. It just becomes one of those cultural differences that doesn't translate well. You are looking at it from a purely financial standpoint, but your servers will take it personally as in insult to their service.

 

[Sencybil]

I very rarely tip.

Tipping is not a legal requirement, hence I will not be tipping just because 'that's the way the US is'.

It is misleading for you to think that a waiter gets paid from tips and earns the minimum from the company itself. What you will find out is that the company compensates for their salary if at the end of their shift they do not meet sufficient tips. This is why if you ever try to ask if it's required, no company is going to say to not tip.

I tip on occasion, however if you are eating out in a group of seven, and the bill is ~$250, I am not giving $50 for a waiter bringing me food from the kitchen. Deduct $50 from my bill, and I will go and walk up myself.

Do not feel pressurised to tip. By all means, tip if you think the service was good and you are in a good mood but don't think because it the 'USA way' that you must go with the flow.

Presumably when you walk into a restaurant you immediately tell the server that you don't agree with tipping and you won't be requiring any service? Or do you take the service they offer and then refuse to pay for something you HAVE in fact received?

Please please stop going to the US, you're embarrassing the rest of us.

Sencybil.

 

[US020]

I worked 40+ hours a week as a server, for years at the same time as studying full time, to fund my further education. I only managed to pay for my studies and pay to live through the tips. The minimal pay I received from employers was nominal enough that had it been removed entirely, it wouldn't have made much difference.

Your attitude is ignorant and offensive IMO

Your employer would have eventually made up the wage so you met the minimum pay requirement for that job. You knew the rate of pay of the job initially.

Mortgages are based on BASIC salary, without commission (i.e; sales jobs). Why should your expectations of a tip falsely think you are on a different salary.

Applying for that job they must tell you, salary is this per hour and EXPECTED tips are $10 an hour (as an example). Keyword there is EXPECTED, its not guaranteed. Much like a bank does not look at your pay with commission, but basic salary only.

Presumably when you walk into a restaurant you immediately tell the server that you don't agree with tipping and you won't be requiring any service? Or do you take the service they offer and then refuse to pay for something you HAVE in fact received?

Please please stop going to the US, you're embarrassing the rest of us.

Sencybil.

Hang on a second.

The waiter's JOB DESCRIPTION is to provide the service. He/She signed up for the job, based on that job description, which lists all the task he/she will do.

They are not going out of their way and doing tasks not within the job description by serving my table.

I tip when I want to tip, not because its the norm.

My most recent meal of disgust was in a Pizza Hut in the US, where it was appalling service. The waiter even had the nerve to put VARIOUS percentages all the way to 40% combined with a smiley face.

Seriously, the nerve where waiters expect a tip is disgusting to be quite honest with you. I'd love to have a conversation with one and simply ask them - why is it you expect me to pay you for you doing a job you are already being paid to do.

Answer that.