Not believing what's in the Unofficial Guide!!!

[cleo]

No reason to shut the thread down. We're just debating a topic, and no one has been out of line.

It's not a big deal, especially since I don't read the UG any more. It's just a topic I threw my opinion into. No harm done in my household.

As for irony, I would suggest the use of that word does not apply to the situation. We may not agree on that, but let me ask you this:

How does Mickey smoking a joint add to your trip planning? How does that 'joke' make the book better? Could another joke that didn't suggest Mickey smokes dope have been just as funny? Would it have been funny if Mickey were doing evil things to small children? Now THAT would have been 'ironic'.

Again, it's no big deal since I don't buy that particular guide book any more (no offense, it just isn't useful to me at this stage). But in the context of this debate, I fail to see how something that is almost guaranteed to be a hot button topic to many readers is appropriate for a guide book. We're not talking about a novel or a comic book here, we're talking about a guide book used to help families plan their Disney trip. I just think it was in bad taste and I'm glad to hear the editors came to their senses after just one run.

And yes, having been on the recieving end of the Mickey Beats Up Minnie scenerio, I would have found that in bad taste too.

 

[dpuck1998]

So because you did it that makes it okay? Whats a little pot? A little nod for the oldsters who smoked it? Like many others have said, it may have been funny somewhere else...but in a disney guidebook? You don't think kids read this? As young at 9 or 10 I'm sure read through it. Is it the end of the world if they do? No, just a good teaching point for them to explain the dangers of drugs and that there is no such thing as a "little" weed. But just because many of you are/were users don't point the finger at others and claim "no sense of humor".

And last time I checked drinking was legal!

 

[dpuck1998]

No reason to shut the thread down. We're just debating a topic, and no one has been out of line.

It's not a big deal, especially since I don't read the UG any more. It's just a topic I threw my opinion into. No harm done in my household.

As for irony, I would suggest the use of that word does not apply to the situation. We may not agree on that, but let me ask you this:

How does Mickey smoking a joint add to your trip planning? How does that 'joke' make the book better? Could another joke that didn't suggest Mickey smokes dope have been just as funny? Would it have been funny if Mickey were doing evil things to small children? Now THAT would have been 'ironic'.

Again, it's no big deal since I don't buy that particular guide book any more (no offense, it just isn't useful to me at this stage). But in the context of this debate, I fail to see how something that is almost guaranteed to be a hot button topic to many readers is appropriate for a guide book. We're not talking about a novel or a comic book here, we're talking about a guide book used to help families plan their Disney trip. I just think it was in bad taste and I'm glad to hear the editors came to their senses after just one run.

And yes, having been on the recieving end of the Mickey Beats Up Minnie scenerio, I would have found that in bad taste too.

The debate is fine...but posting porn sites??

 

[cleo]

That link is gone. I removed it the moment I saw it.

 

[In a hurry]

So because you did it that makes it okay? Whats a little pot? A little nod for the oldsters who smoked it? Like many others have said, it may have been funny somewhere else...but in a disney guidebook? You don't think kids read this? As young at 9 or 10 I'm sure read through it. Is it the end of the world if they do? No, just a good teaching point for them to explain the dangers of drugs and that there is no such thing as a "little" weed. But just because many of you are/were users don't point the finger at others and claim "no sense of humor".

And last time I checked drinking was legal!

Legal does not equal safer. It merely = the difference between being taxable (alcohol) and non-taxable. I don't advocate smoking pot, and never actually said I did. But the era existed. All generations do stupid things. (The laughable thing is that these are the people talking about how rotten kids are now!)

I do not see any reason to get in a huff or a puff about a one-liner in a travel book. If the child hasn't been exposed they skip over a concept, if they have, then they have heard worse.

And why on earth do you care that I think you don't have a sense of humor? I'm not a factor in your life. Just a few words on a screen. I merely believe you can choose to see the humor in life, or be all grumpy and snarkey about life. So cheer-up, smile and have a good day! Don't let the inconsequential get to you so much!

 

[alabamagirl]

Hopefully it makes you feel better thinking drugs are a hilarious topic. I find lots of things funny.....that just isn't one of them. That has nothing to do with having a sense of humor...just sense.

So.......I guess your implying that I don't have any sense. Okay, think what you want. Look, I don't have kids yet, but my point is (like many others that have posted) that the joke is meant for adults and for most people (with a sense of humor) it is funny. It is NOT for kids, but I doubt very seriously that if a kid had a drug problem they would come back and say, "You know it all started with that line about Mickey smoking pot in the UG"........

Regardless, it is being taken out and this is the last time I will post about this topic.

 

[cleo]

Please do come back and post again when you have a pre-teen! It would be interesting to hear your take on it when you do have children.

 

[In a hurry]

Please do come back and post again when you have a pre-teen! It would be interesting to hear your take on it when you do have children.

Actually, I had two. They were killed in an accident when they were 13 and 15. One would have seen it and snickered. The other would have breezed by it. Neither used alcohol or drugs, believe it or not. The 6 year old and my baby boy, well, we'll see.

Being condescending towards people because they don't have the same life experience is kind of a low shot, though, IMO.

 

[cleo]

It certainly wasn't meant to be a low shot. I meant it in all sincerity. I would be interested to hear if she still feels the same way when she is raising children. It really is as simple as that.

This isn't a competition of words to see who is 'right'. We're all just expressing our opinions, as you are. My opinion differs from yours. Again, it's just as simple as that.

 

[dpuck1998]

So.......I guess your implying that I don't have any sense. Okay, think what you want. Look, I don't have kids yet, but my point is (like many others that have posted) that the joke is meant for adults and for most people (with a sense of humor) it is funny. It is NOT for kids, but I doubt very seriously that if a kid had a drug problem they would come back and say, "You know it all started with that line about Mickey smoking pot in the UG"........

Regardless, it is being taken out and this is the last time I will post about this topic.

The point is that it doesn't belong in a book like this, not that it isn't funny or that it would turn any kid to drugs. I have no doubt kids see/hear worse daily. If my kids read it, like I said earlier, I would use it to teach them about inappropriate behavior. Just like when they see other kids behaving in ways that I don't accept from my children.

The smoking pot vs. drinking debate...thats way to big to figure out here...but it involves a lot more than taxes.

And "in a hurry" your right, I don't care if you think I have a sense of humor or not. I'm still in a good mood today. I'm fully able to seperate the screen for life. I can type say my peace and go on with my day. I don't expect anyone to agree with me or not agree with me. I just enjoy a good debate and like to put in my two cents. I having a great day today, work is quiet and its almost christmas time!! Can't wait!! I love christmas!! Not to mention I'll be in Disney World in 30 days!!

and everyone knows I love dancing bananas.....

 

[civileng68]

What I dont get is...............how it is acceptable to put a comment like this, relating DIRECTLY to drugs in a book, yet it is unacceptable to many of those same people to say "Merry Christmas". Go figure.

 

[lark]

Now that the UG has gone to blue for certain things, maybe it's time to branch into other colors. You know, like you could have certain pages in red, and red could mean, "there's some sarcasm on this page" for our sarcasm challenged friends.




Edited for unacceptable link from a family site.

Did I post an unacceptable link? I didn't mean to. I went back and I don't see it. Sorry if I did. I don't really even know how to post a link.

 

[Jen D]

What I dont get is...............how it is acceptable to put a comment like this, relating DIRECTLY to drugs in a book, yet it is unacceptable to many of those same people to say "Merry Christmas". Go figure.

Who are you referring to exactly? Please name the people defending the joke who said saying "Merry Christmas" is unacceptable. I must have missed this detail. Is this part of the imaginary "War on Christmas" that some have dreamed up? I seriously doubt the imaginary anti-Christmas warriors are lurking on this DIS thread, although they may reside in Fantasyland.

 

[cleo]

JenD, there is another thread on TPA&S debating the relative merits of 'Merry Christmas' vs 'Happy Holidays'. Interesting reading if you have a chance to check it out.

lark, you did not post the link. Your post prior to the link was quoted in the post that had the 'offending' link. All that was left was part of the quote, but I'll go remove it so there is no confusion about who did what. My apologies for the confusion!

 

[lark]

No reason to shut the thread down. We're just debating a topic, and no one has been out of line.

It's not a big deal, especially since I don't read the UG any more. It's just a topic I threw my opinion into. No harm done in my household.

As for irony, I would suggest the use of that word does not apply to the situation. We may not agree on that, but let me ask you this:

How does Mickey smoking a joint add to your trip planning? How does that 'joke' make the book better? Could another joke that didn't suggest Mickey smokes dope have been just as funny? Would it have been funny if Mickey were doing evil things to small children? Now THAT would have been 'ironic'.

I think you kind of missed my point. I'm trying to isolate WHY those who are critical of the joke being in the book feel that way. It's more than just a debator's point too. Are there certain topics that are so off-limits that any use of them -- even ironic use -- is simply not appropriate? Or do we sometimes hear certain things and just reflexively find them offensive without thinking why? Or are some us (me, for example) too forgiving of things that are genuinely offensive. These are all interesting questions raised by the pal mickey joke, and I find this discussion rather illuminating. But again, you can't really answer any of these questions until we figure out precisely why the joke is bothersome.

You initially suggested two reasons. One, that the joke isn't funny. Two, that the joke is in a family book and refers to drugs. Now you've suggested a third -- that the joke does not assist trip planning.

So, again, let's sort through those. You don't find the joke funny. I understand that. As noted, humor is in the eye of the beholder. But that's no reason to be offended by the book. And the third reason -- that you think guide books should be only about trip planning -- again is a personal preference. No problem there. But that doesn't make the joke offensive.

So then there's the drug reference. You start by saying that you don't agree with me that it's ironic. (Although then you seem to admit later that it might be.) Anyway, we can agree to disagree, but the joke is plainly an attempt at irony. If one doesn't understand that, then yes, I can understand why he or she might be offended. Which sort of goes back to my original point that those who don't get the joke will, in fact, be offended. (Or even, as the OP was, confused -- "does pal mickey really say that"?)

And really, think about it -- if you don't think the joke was intended as irony, what exactly do you think the UG authors were going for? An earnest suggestion that Mickey smokes pot?

Ok, so hopefully we agree that it's irony. If we agree on that, then what is the offensive part? It seems to me the only answer is that any reference to drugs in a book like this is per se offensive. Even when the irony in the reference makes it clear that the writer is not condoning the use but instead poking fun at disney. That's not an unreasonable position. But it's a little bit conservative. If I legitimately thought children would read the book and say, "Mickey smokes pot, and these authors make light of it, so I should too," I would feel differently. How far does the point go? What about comedians that make over-the-top racist remarks in an effort to satarize racists? That seems like valuable speech to me. I understand that others disagree.

There's actually a movie called the Aristocrats which consists of about 50 comedians telling the same horrible joke, and the entire movie is an exploration of this very issue. Some were horrified. Some were shocked. Some were amused. Some found the satire to be biting and well placed. It's an interesting issue.

Again, if I'm coming off as pedantic or abrasive, it's entirely unintended. Something about the topic just has sparked my interest and I think it's a good debate. [Oh -- and a personal note; obviously, if I'd understood the Mickey/Minnie example had a personal connotation, I wouldn't have used it; just trying to give an example.]

 

[civileng68]

Who are you referring to exactly? Please name the people defending the joke who said saying "Merry Christmas" is unacceptable. I must have missed this detail. Is this part of the imaginary "War on Christmas" that some have dreamed up? I seriously doubt the imaginary anti-Christmas warriors are lurking on this DIS thread, although they may reside in Fantasyland.

Imaginary War? I never said there was a war, can you please show me where I said that? Im not accusing you or anyone specifically. What Im trying to show you is that there is a big discrepency about issues in this country. Everyone wants things ONLY their way and everyday it seems that people are becoming more unaccepting of other people's views.

Keeping on topic, What I am saying is............many (notice Jed, I didnt say all) people who would have a problem with me saying "Merry Christmas" are the same people who laugh at the comment in that book. Im not criticizing anyone, but simply saying, that surely you see the hypocritical attitude in that?

Also you seriously are not going to try and say that there is no issue in this country today of between saying Merry Christmas or not? I wont even go there because Im sure you didn't mean that.

 

[eeyore45]

It certainly wasn't meant to be a low shot. I meant it in all sincerity. I would be interested to hear if she still feels the same way when she is raising children. It really is as simple as that.

This isn't a competition of words to see who is 'right'. We're all just expressing our opinions, as you are. My opinion differs from yours. Again, it's just as simple as that.

Actually it feels more like a "debate", and I for one wonder why its on the theme board, not on a debate board.

It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to read the comments thrown to and fro - esp from a "moderator" its very close to an "attack" to a poster, but it wouldnt feel that way on a "debate" board, on a theme park board, it feels different, and not in a good way.

 

[cleo]

lark, that's way more than I'm interested in debating, though I suppose during a lull at a dinner party it could make for a fascinating diversion. We could probably have a fabulous few hours getting into psychology of the whole thing, but at the moment it's a bridge too far for me. And I don't find your comments offensive in the least. It's an interesting counterpoint.

But the bottom line for me is: it isn't funny, it isn't appropriate for a family guide book, and it's just plain bad decision-making on the part of an editor who should know better. It's just an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.


eeyore45, without the benefit of being able to 'hear my voice' (which is meant to be friendly here in this post, too) I may be coming off as being unpleasant about it when in fact I am really just sitting here with a few hours of (rare) free time. It's just a light-hearted debate, with no-one calling anyone names, no one saying 'your opinion doesn't count', no one bashing anyone personally. I could almost as easily argue the other side, but in this case I'm stating my opinion as I see it. So is everyone else. Ultimately, it's a tiny little nothing, but it does seem we're all adults here and can handle a difference of opinion. It's true I'm a moderator, but I'm not editing anyone's thoughts (other than removing a link I am absolutely certain any moderator here would remove) or telling anyone they shouldn't feel as they do. I just have my own thoughts too, and it's nice to be involved in what seems to be a pretty respectful discussion. My apologies if it seems otherwise.

We don't have a debate board here any more, but your point is well taken. We have the option of closing this thread or letting it run its course, since it is staying on track and isn't a bash-fest. My inclination is to keep it open, but when I read your last sentence I hear you expressing the same opinion about this thread that I am expressing about a drug reference in a guide book. I don't think the guide book should be censored or discontinued, I just have an opinion about that particular reference and that's about the size of it.

 

[lark]

Keeping on topic, What I am saying is............many (notice Jed, I didnt say all) people who would have a problem with me saying "Merry Christmas" are the same people who laugh at the comment in that book. Im not criticizing anyone, but simply saying, that surely you see the hypocritical attitude in that?

Holy thread hijacking, batman.

Chalk me up as one of the people who does not see in the remotest way how these two things are connected.

I get that people feel very strongly about the "Merry Christmas" issue, and there are reasonable and interesting viewpoints on all sides of that debate. But I don't think "hypocricy" is close to the right word here, because these are entirely separate issues. This really sounds like this is an important issue to you, and so you are sort of using this thread as a way to bring it up.

Whether or not anyone has a problem with you saying Merry Christmas just doesn't seem in any sense or any way to help me figure out what to think of a drug reference in the pal mickey section of the UG. Don't get me wrong, maybe I'm completely missing something, but if this were an S.A.T. analogy question, I would pick "none of the above."

 

[Jen D]

Keeping on topic, What I am saying is............many (notice Jed, I didnt say all) people who would have a problem with me saying "Merry Christmas" are the same people who laugh at the comment in that book. Im not criticizing anyone, but simply saying, that surely you see the hypocritical attitude in that?

Also you seriously are not going to try and say that there is no issue in this country today of between saying Merry Christmas or not? I wont even go there because Im sure you didn't mean that.

I do believe you brought us off topic first, by bringing up the "Merry Christmas" issue, and stating people who don't want you to say "Merry Christmas" are the same sort that laugh at this joke. I just don't understand how you possibly make that leap. To answer your view, I guess it would be hyprocritical if anyone had said that, that since no one said that, it seems imaginary to me.

I guess there are other places to discuss the Merry Christmas "issue", although I have trouble agreeing it is an "issue" at all.