Non-Christian's how would you handle this? I'm torn (long)

[RadioNate]

Ds is 4 and in a private preschool. It is not affiliated with any religions organization. Today when I dropped him off the class was picking out a song for the Christmas program. The two I heard being considered were Joy to the World and Away in a Manger. Both clearly religions songs.

I was pretty stunned since most schools are PC enough these days to have "holiday programs' and use non religious songs. Last year his class sang Up on the Housetop.

I was raised Catholic but haven't praticed since leaving Catholic HS nearly 15 years ago. Also I've been considering converting to Judaism. I'm still in the early stages of trying to reconsile the faith I grew up with the faith that I feel called to. Even though I've never felt the Catholic church's teachings were 'right' it's hard to put that aside for something completely different but that's another thread.

My DH is as athesist as they come. He has a serious distrust and dislike of organized religion in general. I think he may flip out when he finds out they considering religious songs for the program.

Anyway what would you do in the situation. I am uncomfortable with a religions song and I know my DH will not like it at all. But I also don't want my DS to be left out of the program because I don't like the song choice. I don't want to be the parent who expects the class to change their choice because of 1 objection. They were letting the kids vote on the song so if I do make a strong objection I don't know how they will tell the kids the song they chose isn't ok. I know that really isn't my problem, I just wish I would have known before they started discussing it with the kids. I'm really torn.

I know his teacher well and I'm sure it never occured to her that anyone would object to a religious song. i'm sure she'll be horrified and really remorseful if I tell her how uncomfortablewe are with a religious song.

Then there is the part of me that thinks it's one Christmas carole, it not like they are taking him to church and providing religious education. He's been to church with my mom and grandmother, it's not that huge of a deal.....

Like I said, I'm totally torn on how to handle the situation. Do I let it go or do I bring my concerns to the school?

 

[Texan Mouseketeer]

Without giving my opinion on this issue at all... ...
I would suggest that you have the 'pick your battles' type attitude and decide for yourself before you say anything how important this is to you and what do you want to accomplish. Are you wanting the songs taken out for sure? Or just to let them know you aren't happy? I would also think you should discuss it with DH because if he is going to get really upset over it, then you may have to say something no matter what your feelings are on the matter.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Here where we live there are so many different religions attending the public school.
I was surprised that they celebrated the secular part of some of our holidays.

The fact was they were secure in their own religion and faith so another's faith is not an issue.

Don't think of 2 songs as recruitment but just a way for your child to share in someone's celebration.

 

[wvrevy]

Ok, I figured that I'm pretty qualified to answer this since 1) I'm about as "un-christian" as they come, here on the Dis, and 2) my daughter attends a christian day care center. My view on this kind of thing has always been kind of like this: they sing songs about Santa Claus, and he doesn't really exist, either, right ? So, why worry just because they're singing songs about a different mythical figure ? Besides, "Away in a Manger" happens to be a beautiful song, particularly when it's sung by kids (well...kids with any talent, anyway..."Class" songs like this are usually pretty unbearable, unless it's your kids doing the singing ).

I figure I have plenty of time to talk to DD about my feelings about religion and why I don't believe as most people in this country do. The most important thing you can teach your kid, in my opinion, is to think for themselves and to always question what people tell them is the "truth" and judge it for themselves. I'll work on instilling a healthy amount of skepticism in her as she gets older. Right now, it's just too early to worry about such things.

If your DH has problems with it, just remind him that kids eventually grow out of believing in Santa Claus, too.

 

[golfgal]

Any song that relates in any way to Christmas can be considered "religious" seeing as CHRISTmas is pretty much a Christian holiday. Santa Clause is based on St. Nicholas, a Christian saint, who was most definitely real. If you feel so strongly that having your preschool children sing a couple songs then I would let the teacher know they won't be able to participate in the program. What if every other family in the school LIKES singing those songs, should they be denied that because your family does not?

 

[Planogirl]

Both of those songs are beautiful and harmless no matter what your beliefs are. I like wvrevy's approach and also agree that this may not be a battle to pick.

 

[worm761]

considering it is the children picking out the songs and not the adults...i dont think there is ulterior motive here. let it go. let the kids have fun. because to them, that's all it it...fun. get some cute pics.

 

[Tiggeroo]

sorry, i'm not a non-christian and I think you should let it go. My children have sung songs of every faith in school. My oldest dd was in band and choir and the always did a diverse program. I don't think my dd is going to become Jewish or feel her faith less if she sings a song about Hannukah. Teach your child your beliefs and how to live in the world with them. We will be a sad world when we strip away all semblance of faith and all the colors of various nationalities. These things add to our lives. I also feel that discussions, even at times heated about faith and our disagreements add spice as well. My children's faith would be meaningless if they only believed what they believed because they grew up in a hothouse where it was never challenged and they were never exposed to differing oppinions. This is why God gave us free will and leaves us surrounded by temptation.

 

[kikipug]

Today when I dropped him off the class was picking out a song for the Christmas program. The two I heard being considered were Joy to the World and Away in a Manger. Both clearly religions songs.

I'm NOT a 'non-Christian', however, you stated that it is a Christmas program, NOT a 'holiday' program, therefore, Christmas (religious) songs are what should be sung, in keeping with a true Christmas theme. I think the issue isn't song choice, yet rather, whether or not you want your child involved in the program ... and that's something only you can answer.

 

[barbeml]

Another atheist here. I love Christmas Carols and enjoy singing and hearing them. I also learned Hannuka (I can't spell it, no offense) songs and many seasonal songs in school, and I enjoy hearing & singing them too. There is much great art and literature in the world with religious themes, and Iwould not want to see it go away.

As long as there is diversity in the music, I would have no worries. Just don't mess with science class.

 

[cardaway]

If limited to a few songs at the end of the year, I say let it go.

If you feel the need to say something, I would suggest asking about how they chose the songs for the program. Don't be surprised if the answer is simply along the lines of "because they're cool".

 

[golfgal]

Another thought-this is also a good learning experience for everyone. We live in a diverse society and we are constantly exposed to things/people/beliefs that are different then our own. By participating in such things, like a Christmas program, you are showing your children that while we may not believe in this, we respect the rights of others to believe in these things. Our kids go to a Catholic school and they spend a lot of time discussing various other religions. In the kindergarten classes they "celebrate" Hanukkah by lighting a Menorah. The upper grades spend a day practicing Ramadan. I think it is great.

 

[GoodFairies]

The children are four; it's a preschool---they probably don't even know what they are singing about. The kids are singing a song or two, not being brainwashed into joining a religion you don't like. It's not a big deal so I think you should let it go.

I'm not religious either and I LOVE religious Christmas songs much much more than say, Rudolph or Frosty or whatever.

 

[caitycaity]

i am an atheist, but i don't have kids, so take my opinion however you want.

i agree with the poster who said pick your battles. you and your dh need to decide if you are raising your child to be an atheist (indoctrination) or a freethinker (let him make up his own mind).

dh (not an atheist) and i have already decided when the time comes that we will be raising our children as freethinkers. that is how i was raised by my parents (also not atheists).

if you are raising your child to be an atheist, now is the time to start teaching him about the discrimination that comes with that. irl, what you see is what you get with me, except when it comes to religion. if asked, i will answer honestly, but i do not volunteer that information to anyone, not even most of my friends. i learned my lesson about the majority of people's reactions to atheists the hard way. i would not want any child of mine having to deal with that, though i understand that to some people, the principle is the most important thing.

it may not be the principled thing to do, but i would sing the song and i wouldn't say a word about it to my child. as wvrevy says, just singing religious christmas carols isn't going to make the child a believer. the alternative will most likely make your child feel like an outcast and subject him to a lot of teasing. some of his friend's parents might not want him hanging out with their kids anymore. it might not be right, but that's the way it is.

just my (honest) two cents...

 

[RickinNYC]

I don't know that this is a huge issue for you to worry about. I think this is the perfect opportunity for you to discuss various religions with your child, 4 years old notwithstanding. Turn it into a learning experience.

And besides, there are thousands of songs out there that people sing every day simply because they like the rhythm or the music, others listen for the message. Mmmmmbop anyone?

 

[Marseeya]

Another atheist signing in. I agree with WVRevy completely.

I faced something similar with my son when he was in his 4th grade music program (public school, I might add!), but I've come to sort of a comfort level with things like that. While I don't want anyone trying to convert my kids, I don't have a problem with them being exposed to different religious expressions.

Along similar lines, I think they actually need to have some of this knowledge as a foundation for academics and the arts, particularly literature and music. Religion is the foundation for most music and classic literature, so to be ignorant of that can be a real handicap. I found that out the hard way as both a music AND English lit major in college.

 

[bananiem]

What other songs are they singing? When I taught preschool the kids sang 4 songs. We asked the parents for suggestions of songs that would represent their families ideas of the holiday seasons. We had a Mom from Germany come in and teach the PreK kids O Tannenbaum. Then they sang it in English too. They sang The Dreydl Song. A Mom brought a song that she thought worked for Kwanzaa. The program represented the diversity of the kids and yes, there was a religious song or two in there.
Are they promoting it as a Christmas program or a Holiday program?

 

[golfgal]

At our public middle school choir concert last year they did a BEAUTIFUL arrangement of Holy, Holy, Holy, which is a VERY Catholic prayer. The teacher did not choose it because it was a prayer but because it was a very challenging piece of music. The 8th grade choir that sang the song brought tears to the eyes of every woman and many men in the audience because it performed it so beautifully (along with the selections from Phantom of the Opera and the song "You build me Up"). It was the most wonderful school choir concert I have ever attended at ANY age. No one complained about the choice of music. I wish I had a CD of that concert.

 

[wvrevy]

You know, it's funny, but I actually like a lot of religious music, particularly of the holiday variety. As I said, I'm about as un-religious as they come, but I nearly had tears in my eyes last year watching the candlelight processional at Epcot, just from the sheer beauty of the music. The subject didn't really make a difference, and as Marseeya said, having a basic knowledge of religion and religious beliefs is essential to understanding this whacked out world we live in these days, as well as any number of classical subjects in art and literature. Hell, Shubert's Ave Maria may be the most beautiful piece of music ever written by man...the subject is irrelevant.

But, as barb mentioned, just keep it out of science class

 

[kasar]

The children are four; it's a preschool---they probably don't even know what they are singing about. The kids are singing a song or two, not being brainwashed into joining a religion you don't like. It's not a big deal so I think you should let it go.

I'm not religious either and I LOVE religious Christmas songs much much more than say, Rudolph or Frosty or whatever.

That's exactly what I was going to say. They're 4. Let it be.