No Wonder They Were Thinking About Selling.

[mefordis]

Okay, I get the point now. Sorry for the confusion.

Stretch much? I used FP as an example not as a discussion point. I also worked in customer service for many years and I retired early because there wasn't enough money on the planet to make me enjoy going to work any longer in the environment of me, me, me! The incredible feeling that one should get exactly what they want and the rest be damned, although not new has certainly expanded to be the norm in most cases instead of occasionally. It wasn't always like that...I'm old enough to remember a time when almost no one was an obnoxious twit and the ones that were quickly were put in their place.

If Disney were to, for example, sell the properties (and that is not as far fetched as it may seem) they would stand to increase their cash assets by billions of dollars all the while maintaining a cash flow (with no overhead or more importantly, headaches) from the collection of franchise fees and general consulting fees and the sale of Disney owned products. In short the money could be invested in other lucrative places, profits could continue even at present rates and they wouldn't have to directly put up with the consequences of customer whining and thrashing about to get something for nothing. That would be someone elses concern.

This world seems to think that we can go on behaving however we want to and there will be no consequences...that is fundamentally wrong in my opinion. There will be a day of pay back...there always is!

 

[Reddog1134]

Geez, i wonder if that has anything to do with Kmart no longer in business for themselves, being bought out by Sears.

Sorry for being off topic but I believe the Kmart brand is actually doing a LOT better than Sears right now.

ETA: Just looked it up. Kmart actually purchased Sears.

 

[sbell111]

I think the threads that bother me most are the people who ask for tips on how to be family of the day or Grand Marshall or how do I make sure my child gets picked to be _________.

It seems to be a big trend here lately. No one can just have an organic vacation. Everyone wants to be special and yes we all are special in our own way but when you are seeking out the surprises or trying to plan on it you take away the magic.

Isn't it up to each individual to decide how 'organic' his/her vacation should be? Why should I be bothered if a person want's to plan out his/her vacation to the nth degree? I'm much more troubled by people who insist on telling those 'planners' that they are doing it wrong.

 

[goofyernmost]

DRDISNEYMD, really good post. Geez, i wonder if that has anything to do with Kmart no longer in business for themselves, being bought out by Sears.

Sorry for being off topic but I believe the Kmart brand is actually doing a LOT better than Sears right now.

ETA: Just looked it up. Kmart actually purchased Sears.

Yup...exactly what I was going to say. It took me completely by surprise when I heard about it. Here was this GIANT... Sears... and it was bought out by what everyone thought to be a "thrift" store. Kmart was, of course, originally Kresge's which was around the same era as Sears...but Sears just always seemed like a more stable company.

It's hard to say exactly what caused the downturn of Sears but I know that most of my shopping (especially Christmas time) used to be from the Sears catalog...when that stopped, so did I. I know that's just one person, but I can't help thinking that this was a very bad decision, but it may be that sales had down turned long before then.

I remember having to go through a personal Bankruptcy due to a business failure and making sure that I got to keep my Sear Card because it was the one place that I could get anything I needed in an emergency. Not so much anymore, I guess.

 

[vacationclub]

I think that we see more angst on these boards from people who are upset that others might 'get something', then we do from those people who are looking for ways to 'get something'. In my opinion, that's the real thing that we've seen change on these boards. People are becoming a bit too concerned about what other people are doing and then acting like bullies to try to change these strangers.

Really, which threads? (besides this one) Bullies....really?

At any given moment there are threads discussing beating the fast pass system, figuring out the best way ride every ride, or to hit every park in one day, to get the best view of a parade, to get the best airfare, go at the cheapest time of year, or to land at 6pm and still get to a 8pm ADR. I see very few threads where people are bullying those who are using the Disboards for the very thing it was designed to do...share insider info, experiences, tips, suggestions, etc. (let alone trying to change strangers).

Sorry for being off topic but I believe the Kmart brand is actually doing a LOT better than Sears right now.

ETA: Just looked it up. Kmart actually purchased Sears.

Yea, you're right. I guess I thought it was Kmart getting purchased since they wen't into bankruptcy, but actually some hedge fund guy gained majority control of Kmart during bankruptcy then used that as a launching point to buy Sears. Thanks for clarifying.

Isn't it up to each individual to decide how 'organic' his/her vacation should be? Why should I be bothered if a person want's to plan out his/her vacation to the nth degree? I'm much more troubled by people who insist on telling those 'planners' that they are doing it wrong.

Yes, it's up to each individual.
You shouldn't be bothered if a person wants to plan out the vacation to the nth degree.
On what thread did someone insist on telling people that they are doing it wrong? I think (which means it's my opinion) that you're really exaggerating this.

 

[sbell111]

Really, which threads? (besides this one) Bullies....really?

At any given moment there are threads discussing beating the fast pass system,...

That's a good start. Pick just about any of the FP threads and you will find plenty of examples.

Yes, it's up to each individual.
You shouldn't be bothered if a person wants to plan out the vacation to the nth degree.
On what thread did someone insist on telling people that they are doing it wrong? I think (which means it's my opinion) that you're really exaggerating this.

You don't have to look farther than the post that I was replying to. If you choose to look farther, than you will find loads more examples.

 

[vacationclub]

That's a good start. Pick just about any of the FP threads and you will find plenty of examples.

The current Fast pass threads are, by definition, people complaining about something. Specifically, the enforcement of rules/printed policies that people are upset about. The people speaking up in those threads aren't telling people they are doing it wrong, they're saying you got away with something....now you can't...just use FP and return at the printed time.

You don't have to look farther than the post that I was replying to. If you choose to look farther, than you will find loads more examples.

The post you replied to wasn't about planning the day down to the nth degree, spreadsheets, etc. It was about people trying rig the system to get what would otherwise be considered a nice surprise, or special Disney moment. That poster was complaining that some just want those moments delivered to them as part of their package, and not some special moment or surprise.

Why do I have to look farther? You made the assertion...show some compelling examples of attacking bullies telling others that they're planning methods are wrong and trying to change them.

 

[sbell111]

The current Fast pass threads are, by definition, people complaining about something. Specifically, the enforcement of rules/printed policies that people are upset about. The people speaking up in those threads aren't telling people they are doing it wrong, they're saying you got away with something....now you can't...just use FP and return at the printed time.


The post you replied to wasn't about planning the day down to the nth degree, spreadsheets, etc. It was about people trying rig the system to get what would otherwise be considered a nice surprise, or special Disney moment. That poster was complaining that some just want those moments delivered to them as part of their package, and not some special moment or surprise.

Why do I have to look farther? You made the assertion...show some compelling examples of attacking bullies telling others that they're planning methods are wrong and trying to change them.

Thanks for making my points for me.

 

[kaligal]

Yup...exactly what I was going to say. It took me completely by surprise when I heard about it. Here was this GIANT... Sears... and it was bought out by what everyone thought to be a "thrift" store. Kmart was, of course, originally Kresge's which was around the same era as Sears...but Sears just always seemed like a more stable company.

It's hard to say exactly what caused the downturn of Sears but I know that most of my shopping (especially Christmas time) used to be from the Sears catalog...when that stopped, so did I. I know that's just one person, but I can't help thinking that this was a very bad decision, but it may be that sales had down turned long before then.

I remember having to go through a personal Bankruptcy due to a business failure and making sure that I got to keep my Sear Card because it was the one place that I could get anything I needed in an emergency. Not so much anymore, I guess.

You filed for Bankruptcy? You went to court and got the judge to protect you so that you didn't have to pay debts you actually incurred? Is that correct?

And you are standing in moral judgement of people who - after being told by Disney that it was fine - use their FPs late?

I must be missing something here.

 

[PIRATEGIRL007]

It's not just you.

I can see this thread becoming nasty. I am going to squat like a parade spot vulture and watch the carnage.

and SOOOO true!

Although I think those Disney is selling rumors is a bunch of rubbish I agree that people in general in and out of the parks have such a bad entitlement attitude that working with the public in any venue can be a huge aggrivation to a company. Unfortunately with the popularity of the internet it's only gotten worse as I can see how your kiddo dropping his Mickey bar got you a night in the Cinderella suite so I know to demand the same thing when I head to guest services after I get stuck on Haunted Mansion for 4 minutes (which anyone with any sense knows and understands thats a handicap loading).

 

[vacationclub]

Thanks for making my points for me.

And how do you believe that happened? (rhetorical since you probably won't answer that either) If you can't reply, or defend your assertions, or show any examples, just say so or bow out....instead of generic phrases you repeat over and over that mean nothing. Obviously you can't see the difference between discussing entitled vacationers and those who plan trips thoroughly.

 

[Attagirl3]

You filed for Bankruptcy? You went to court and got the judge to protect you so that you didn't have to pay debts you actually incurred? Is that correct?

And you are standing in moral judgement of people who - after being told by Disney that it was fine - use their FPs late?

I must be missing something here.

Speaking of people who stand in moral judgement of others... wow.

 

[sbell111]

And how do you believe that happened? (rhetorical since you probably won't answer that either) If you can't reply, or defend your assertions, or show any examples, just say so or bow out....instead of generic phrases you repeat over and over that mean nothing. Obviously you can't see the difference between discussing entitled vacationers and those who plan trips thoroughly.

Your posts are the best examples. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be.

Even now, you appear to prefer to try to bully me so you can 'win' your argument, rather than simply accepting that we don't have to agree.

 

[vacationclub]

Your posts are the best examples. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be.

Even now, you appear to prefer to try to bully me so you can 'win' your argument, rather than simply accepting that we don't have to agree.

OHHHHH.....now I get it. You think that when someone asks a question, and requests that you DEFEND your accusations, provide some examples of what you assert to be true when you provide no context or evidence, that is bullying. OK, got it.

What you're saying is, if you say something that can't be proven, or maybe even be proven wrong, those who dare mention that to you are a bully. Got it.

I guess if that rationale makes you feel better....so be it.

I think it's clear we don't agree....I'm simply asking you to convince me that I should agree....show me some evidence. You know....have a discussion....on a discussion board.

If you ever come up with an example that shows people (bullies) are telling planners that they are doing it wrong and want to change them....let us know.

Anyway, back to the actual subject of this thread...

 

[sbell111]

OHHHHH.....now I get it. You think that when someone asks a question, and requests that you DEFEND your accusations, provide some examples of what you assert to be true when you provide no context or evidence, that is bullying. OK, got it.

What you're saying is, if you say something that can't be proven, or maybe even be proven wrong, those who dare mention that to you are a bully. Got it.

I guess if that rationale makes you feel better....so be it.

I think it's clear we don't agree....I'm simply asking you to convince me that I should agree....show me some evidence. You know....have a discussion....on a discussion board.

If you ever come up with an example that shows people (bullies) are telling planners that they are doing it wrong and want to change them....let us know.

Anyway, back to the actual subject of this thread...

I am under no obligation to prove anything to you. I posted my thoughts on the issue. You proved my point. Moving on...

 

[vacationclub]

I am under no obligation to prove anything to you.

Translation: I have no evidence for anything I said, but because you had the audacity to ask me to elaborate, clarrify or provide some context or evidence, you are a cyber-bully.

Please don't post assertions on message boards then act surprised when people challenge you on them.

I posted my thoughts on the issue.

And then I posted my thoughts on your thoughts.

You proved my point.

Yes, if your point was that you can't provide any evidence that supports your assertion there are bullies telling planners that they are wrong and trying to change them, then that point has been proven.

 

[mistysue]

Translation: I have no evidence for anything I said, but because you had the audacity to ask me to elaborate, clarrify or provide some context or evidence, you are a cyber-bully.

Funny, usually I would totally agree and applaud you for this thought, but in this particular case- the words you are writing do read like a bully. You are practically attacking and going after somebody... when responded to you are ignoring the responses and going back to provoking an argument. Have you read back through this conversation you are having, because it does sound like you are here to argue and prove superiority more than to discuss anything, right or wrong.


That said, I think society has always been this bad but that we see it more now because of the internet. As people get more comfortable with the internet, we are sharing more and not being as guarded, so the internal ego-centrism and bullying attitudes are coming out in full force.
I routinely find myself irritated not so much by the people asking how to get something, but by the 30 people who chime in to say "this thread won't go well", "I can't believe you said that" or just to make some vague remark insinuating that they are better than somebody else without actually addressing the topic. Everybody wants to get the magical moment, have the best trip and get the best pricing. Some people ask while some people are ashamed to ask how to up their chances.

 

[vacationclub]

. Have you read back through this conversation you are having, because it does sound like you are here to argue and prove superiority more than to discuss anything, right or wrong.

I am completely open and inviting to you in reviewing the few back and forths I had here, where an assertion was made about "bullies", people saying other people are "wrong for not doing it their way", and trying to "change strangers". I asked about this, and said I thought it was really an exaggeration. I asked if they had any examples or evidence of any of this. The few attempts at providing them didn't even apply to what the poster was talking about. No others were ever given (except to say my own post was somehow an example, which makes no sense if you're saying you don't like something even before it was written.) I even invited a discussion...."on a discussion board"...those were my words in post 74.

I responded directly to everything that was responded to me...in fact I quoted almost every word before responding.

Personally, I think the whole thing was a veiled attempt at attacking the entire premise of this thread, and those participating in it. In fact, the only thread they could show as an example of what they were talking about was this thread.

If I came across strongly, perhaps it's simply to call out the person who makes bold statements, that attack other DIS posters. Then when asked to show some evidence of this...they run away saying they have no obligation to provide any proof. Great. I have no obligation to let them off the hook for attacking other DIS posters (perhaps the ones in this very thread).

I think it's strange when someone says "you're here to argue", but the person who's arguing with you isn't here to argue. It's as if whoever can make that claim about the other one first gets to take the moral high ground.

If using language, reason, and quoting peoples own words is "bullying"....god help us all. If that's the case, then we really ARE becoming entitled, even entitled to not need any logic to our statements that directly accuse others of something that we have no evidence of.

 

[goofyernmost]

You filed for Bankruptcy? You went to court and got the judge to protect you so that you didn't have to pay debts you actually incurred? Is that correct?

And you are standing in moral judgement of people who - after being told by Disney that it was fine - use their FPs late?

I must be missing something here.

I guess I need to respond to this. First, if you can tell me what one thing has to do with the other, I will be not only surprised but impressed.

Second, I defy you to go through any of these or any other posts and tell me when exactly I stood in judgment of anyone using FP's late. You will be quite a while looking, btw, it is something I have never said. Not once, not ever! You will find one that said that I have used it that way after I knew it was acceptable with Disney. Just as bankruptcy is acceptable under the laws of the United States. There is no moral question in either of them except in your own mind.

The only thing I have ever said is...that when late FP stops being allowable, that I will silently accept that I was able to use it while it lasted and not complain about a rule that was enacted and then ignored by the Disney Company and now want to enforce it again. That is their problem, not mine. They make the rules and I will follow them as they define them.

Anyway, thanks for the personal attack on me concerning a very tough time in my life when I had to make tough decisions that ultimately allowed me to get my kids through college and not live in a cardboard box. Here's hoping that you never have to face the same thing to the degree that I had too.

 

[kaligal]

I guess I need to respond to this. First, if you can tell me what one thing has to do with the other, I will be not only surprised but impressed.

Second, I defy you to go through any of these or any other posts and tell me when exactly I stood in judgment of anyone using FP's late. You will be quite a while looking, btw, it is something I have never said. Not once, not ever! You will find one that said that I have used it that way after I knew it was acceptable with Disney. Just as bankruptcy is acceptable under the laws of the United States. There is no moral question in either of them except in your own mind.

The only thing I have ever said is...that when late FP stops being allowable, that I will silently accept that I was able to use it while it lasted and not complain about a rule that was enacted and then ignored by the Disney Company and now want to enforce it again. That is their problem, not mine. They make the rules and I will follow them as they define them.

Anyway, thanks for the personal attack on me concerning a very tough time in my life when I had to make tough decisions that ultimately allowed me to get my kids through college and not live in a cardboard box. Here's hoping that you never have to face the same thing to the degree that I had too.

You're right. I did what all kinds of people on this board do.

They're always passing judgement on others. They don't think people should get free parking. They don't think people should should say their 3yo is a 2yo. They don't care what those people's reasons might be. They just get up on their high horse and chastise.

Of course, running out on a debt is a little worse in my book than parking somewhere that doesn't charge a fee, but that doesn't mean it is worse in everyone's book.

You beat the system by filing bankruptcy, which is none of my business. Others beat the system their way, which is none of yours.

Maybe we should all remember that other people might have reasons for doing what they do and that it really isn't any of our business. You included. Me included.