No Wonder They Were Thinking About Selling.

Magic is only magic if you do not expect it or know about it. I agree with OP and what is going on is very sad.

I do not want to point at FPs, yep I know I just did:rolleyes1, so I will give another example. Look at Resort Board, how many ask how to make sure room request is granted, hello, it is a request, be happy if you get it but you cannot guarantee it. Or my absolutely favorite, free upgrades, no, nobody knows how it works and if they do I suggest to keep it to themselves before another secret was murdered.

And seriously, every time Disney moves someone has a heart attack, every time someone stating, they will never go again. Promise? I remember someone writting to Disney about selling their DVC if... Disney will build Avatar Land, is this for real?

Oh, what can I say, Dis of our Lives...;)
 
Is it just me or is society becoming so much me, me, me that it is starting to struggle to survive?

It's not just you. While I agree with others that there have always been people who try to work the system, we as a country have unfortunately cultivated in recent years a society wherein a growing majority of people have huge and baseless entitlement complexes.

I don't think their behavior is limited to Disney...these folks expect almost everyone to do their bidding...government, schools, restaurants, stores, etc. We all see examples of this all the time. Our society has lost it's civility & sense of earned self worth by paving the way for a bunch of whiney "gimme gimmes".
 
THIS! Nothing new under the sun: I can still tell you which families were the "cheap" ones in the neighborhood I grew up in back in the 1960s...families who took toilet paper from every public restroom they ever used (and instructed every kid in the family to do the same), stuffed pockets with ketchup packets and took purse-fulls of napkins from restaurants, took towels from hotels, etc. And back then, you cheated parks (and drive-in movies) by cramming extra kids in the trunk. And yes, parents would actually do that to save the 50 cents per kid or whatever it cost. People trying to cheat their way to the cheapest vacation is as old as taking vacations.

As a long-time student of history (actually read & remember it,lol) I'm continually surprised that so many people are under the (very false) assumption that yesteryear was a quieter, more honest, more peaceful time with lower murder/rape/robbery/assault rates...cheaper food/housing/clothing etc. Just wasn't so...except on the very-fake-family shows on TV where the worst that happened was Junior accidentally hit a baseball through the neighbor's window. They skipped the real stories that happened then: there were plenty of mouthy, drunken and/or druggy youth, gangs, teen pregnancies, etc. in every decade...they just didn't make "reality" shows out of them for us all to see.

It really is just a matter of everything-shared-immediately on the internet...it all happened before but you just didn't know about it as much unless you read a whole lot of newspapers-magazines-books.



So true!!! I'm amazed more people don't think of this. Add to that: The population has grown, which means there are more bad people, but that means they are outnumbered by many more good people. It's just more fun for some to dwell on the negative because of the drama.

I've had two trips to WDW in two years - I can pinpoint four bad experiences off the top of my head, but even though they do come to mind at times, the hundreds of good memories are so much more fun to think about!

The internet is a great resource, but the anonymity does breed a lot of complaints.
 
I have to admit I am not following the logic of OP premise. First, I find no credible articles about Disney selling US theme parks. Second why would they if profitable...and the are capable of operations...which clearly they are? Third, what type of business "sells" over petty customer service issues and what senior leader gives a flip over a three-year old being passed on as a two-year old or old cups. While certainly middle and first line management handles these situations I would doubt seriously that the "issue" has ever been addressed in earnest at any board meeting...senior leaders are interested in driving attendance and repeat business and busy looking at low hanging fruit like ticket prices and food/beverage sales. If any senior leader at Disney theme Parks is annoyed by customers doing those things they are seriously in the wrong business as taking advantage of the system is something to control but not be annoyed by...I am sure they are ecstatic the customer is IN the parkto begin with!

This seems like a proposterous presumption.
 


I don't know about selling the parks, but I DO agree things have gotten worse. I think the internet can bear a lot of blame for that. At least w/ respect to traveling to WDW. With the good comes the bad. In the days before the internet, visiting WDW was a joy too, but you knew less. Things like the light parade outside of our room at the CR just blew us away. We didn't know about it then and everything was new. The more people know, the more people want. No one seems to want anyone to have ANYTHING they can't have. Everything should be 100 level and equal. Don't give them pixie dust if I can't have any. I'll throw a tantrum! And we've all seen them here on the boards. Ridiculous crud! Like a PP said, magic is only magic, if you don't expect it and it's a surprise. I DO think people are getting much MUCH more self-absorbed and it won't get any better as the generations perpetuate it. Sad. Sometimes becoming a nun sounds really good. :idea::littleangel:
 
Sure, I understand all that....but what does that have to do with this thread?

We're talking about entitled people, always complaining, trying to get more than they paid for or was intended, and CM's that have to deal with those people. We're not talking about people ordering dinner then walking out without paying. Those are real loses. People pushing the limits of Fastpass, or pool hopping, aren't directly affecting the bottom line, but might be annoying to other guests or to CM's.

You answered your own question.
 
Man, I totally agree Colleen. My example is the "pool for guest only". HOw many times right here do we get the question: My ___ is having a birthday and we'd like to invite our family to celebrate at the pool". The standard response here is ALWAYS, ask the front desk and if they say it's cool, then no problem.
Well it is a problem, Disney rules post and specifically say that the resort pool is for guest of the resort. Why is it ok to break that rule?

You are more gracious than me, I don't think it leaves people confused, I think folks know exactly what they are doing.

I disagree, I rather doubt that those Disney representatives are risking their job by allowing it. I have rules in my house that I sometimes allow people to "break" for specific reasons. It's not at all uncommon for any person (or business, although Disney as a corporation is actually granted legal "personhood", so I really don't have to make a distinction) to make blanket rules and then suspend them in specific circumstances.
 


Is this your attempt to start yet another FastPass thread because the other ones are slowing down? I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this thread. Sorry.

Stretch much? I used FP as an example not as a discussion point. I also worked in customer service for many years and I retired early because there wasn't enough money on the planet to make me enjoy going to work any longer in the environment of me, me, me! The incredible feeling that one should get exactly what they want and the rest be damned, although not new has certainly expanded to be the norm in most cases instead of occasionally. It wasn't always like that...I'm old enough to remember a time when almost no one was an obnoxious twit and the ones that were quickly were put in their place.

If Disney were to, for example, sell the properties (and that is not as far fetched as it may seem) they would stand to increase their cash assets by billions of dollars all the while maintaining a cash flow (with no overhead or more importantly, headaches) from the collection of franchise fees and general consulting fees and the sale of Disney owned products. In short the money could be invested in other lucrative places, profits could continue even at present rates and they wouldn't have to directly put up with the consequences of customer whining and thrashing about to get something for nothing. That would be someone elses concern.

This world seems to think that we can go on behaving however we want to and there will be no consequences...that is fundamentally wrong in my opinion. There will be a day of pay back...there always is!
 
THIS! Nothing new under the sun: I can still tell you which families were the "cheap" ones in the neighborhood I grew up in back in the 1960s...families who took toilet paper from every public restroom they ever used (and instructed every kid in the family to do the same), stuffed pockets with ketchup packets and took purse-fulls of napkins from restaurants, took towels from hotels, etc. And back then, you cheated parks (and drive-in movies) by cramming extra kids in the trunk. And yes, parents would actually do that to save the 50 cents per kid or whatever it cost. People trying to cheat their way to the cheapest vacation is as old as taking vacations.

As a long-time student of history (actually read & remember it,lol) I'm continually surprised that so many people are under the (very false) assumption that yesteryear was a quieter, more honest, more peaceful time with lower murder/rape/robbery/assault rates...cheaper food/housing/clothing etc. Just wasn't so...except on the very-fake-family shows on TV where the worst that happened was Junior accidentally hit a baseball through the neighbor's window. They skipped the real stories that happened then: there were plenty of mouthy, drunken and/or druggy youth, gangs, teen pregnancies, etc. in every decade...they just didn't make "reality" shows out of them for us all to see.

It really is just a matter of everything-shared-immediately on the internet...it all happened before but you just didn't know about it as much unless you read a whole lot of newspapers-magazines-books.

Couldn't agree more. I'm a mouse junkie and a genealogist. Read the papers from 100 years ago...Same stuff as today. Sickos, murderers, thieves etc. Human nature is human nature...it doesn't change that much.
 
My husband and I came back from Disney with a very similar conversation. I agree with most of what you've said. :hippie:
 
Stretch much? I used FP as an example not as a discussion point. I also worked in customer service for many years and I retired early because there wasn't enough money on the planet to make me enjoy going to work any longer in the environment of me, me, me! The incredible feeling that one should get exactly what they want and the rest be damned, although not new has certainly expanded to be the norm in most cases instead of occasionally. It wasn't always like that...I'm old enough to remember a time when almost no one was an obnoxious twit and the ones that were quickly were put in their place.

If Disney were to, for example, sell the properties (and that is not as far fetched as it may seem) they would stand to increase their cash assets by billions of dollars all the while maintaining a cash flow (with no overhead or more importantly, headaches) from the collection of franchise fees and general consulting fees and the sale of Disney owned products. In short the money could be invested in other lucrative places, profits could continue even at present rates and they wouldn't have to directly put up with the consequences of customer whining and thrashing about to get something for nothing. That would be someone elses concern.

This world seems to think that we can go on behaving however we want to and there will be no consequences...that is fundamentally wrong in my opinion. There will be a day of pay back...there always is!
This couldn't be any further from the truth. Actually, it was much worst in the past, things have actually improved. What you are noticing is companies that have "caught on" and have taken drastic measures to counter this behavior, people are reacting to those new measures that prevent them from "getting away" with what they used to be able to in the past. I really hope you are not trying to make this a "generational" thing, maybe I am reading this wrong.

Also, if Disney was trying to sell the parks, it's only because they weren't sure whether or not to invest the billions so desperately needed in order to revitalize the parks after so many years of neglect. I am so glad Disney didn't sell the parks and decided to make the parks a priority again.:goodvibes
 
This couldn't be any further from the truth. Actually, it was much worst in the past, things have actually improved. What you are noticing is companies that have "caught on" and have taken drastic measures to counter this behavior, people are reacting to those new measures that prevent them from "getting away" with what they used to be able to in the past. I really hope you are not trying to make this a "generational" thing, maybe I am reading this wrong.

Also, if Disney was trying to sell the parks, it's only because they weren't sure whether or not to invest the billions so desperately needed in order to revitalize the parks after so many years of neglect. I am so glad Disney didn't sell the parks and decided to make the parks a priority again.:goodvibes

OK, I guess I have lived my 64 years in a protective bubble then. I can only assume that you are from a different area then I was, because I am basing my opinion on my life experiences. I have no idea what yours were. I think we have established the there are jerks that have existed through-out the history of mankind, but I doubt they were as prolific as they are today.
 
I have been on alternating threads for about 10 years now and I have seen the questions (and answers) go from upbeat, what's best to see or do, etc. to a lot more...How do I beat the system type posts. How do I beat parking fees. How do I get front of the line access. How much do you think Disney owes me because I was sick while I was there and didn't have a good time.

I only bring this up because I was wondering what others thought about this. Is it just me or is society becoming so much me, me, me that it is starting to struggle to survive?

Even though the Parks are a cash cow, the pain in the butt factor must be aggravating to say the least.


I know it makes for some interesting reading sometimes, but I think it is sad how much time is spent on trying to creatively "get away" with something, then how to make the present systems work for you in a positive way. Any thoughts on this? :confused3


We would be naive to think that this isn't already figured into their pricing structure. You should be more upset with all the scammers because you are paying an increase because of them and the headaches they create


Please explain what you mean and how it relates to the subject of this thread.

I'll take a stab at it,......... Just like all those signs you sometimes see in department stores about how "shoplifting affects everyone", that's because they charge more for the items that they sell in order to help offset the cost of theft. If Disney projects that due to various "scams" they are going to lose "X" amount of profit for a given year, then they attempt to recoup that projected loss, and the only way that they can do that is to charge more than they otherwise would have.



Originally Posted by vacationclub
Sure, I understand all that....but what does that have to do with this thread?

We're talking about entitled people, always complaining, trying to get more than they paid for or was intended,

You answered your own question.

No I didn't. You highlighted the word trying, as in attempting, as in complaining, begging, etc. As in the "pain in the butt factor" that the OP specifically mentioned when starting this discussion. There was no mention of thieves. You and matt/beth responded to a customer service discussion, not one on criminal activity.

I didn't say succeeding, as in stealing, causing losses...as you were describing.

Would you like to take another stab at answering the question about how the scammers that cost me money are related to the "entitled" that try to, or those that push all limits of loopholes in policies? (the OP's discussion points.)
 
OK, I guess I have lived my 64 years in a protective bubble then. I can only assume that you are from a different area then I was, because I am basing my opinion on my life experiences. I have no idea what yours were. I think we have established the there are jerks that have existed through-out the history of mankind, but I doubt they were as prolific as they are today.
You're older than my parents, they haven't reached retirement as yet. During my 11th grade year of high school, I participated in a business co-op program, where you can work part-time and receive 3 credits toward graduation. My first job experience was at KMart. This KMart was in a large wealthy suburb comprised of a unique mix of rich, middle and poor -- it included gated communities, private roads, nice subdivisions, condos, apartments and a few trailer parks.

My first day, the shift supervisor looked at me than turned to another employee and said, "oh no, not another "princess", I can't stand these girls. They're dumb as rocks and spoiled rotten." Why bother training them, when "real" people could use this job?" I was supposed to be a "checkout operator" but the supervisor said, "no, I want "princess" behind the customer service/return desk, she won't make it to first break." After, my first break I went in the bathroom and cried. I wanted to quit. People were vicious, I was called every single name under the sun, cussed out every single day when I had decline a return. It was nasty, I cried myself to sleep the first week, but I didn't quit. Most of my classmates quit after the first week but I was sort of a gunner and I would not accept a W on my transcript, lol. Plus, the GM took me under his wing and showed me how to deal with people. :rotfl:

Anyway, people would use an item for years until it broke and then demand a refund. They would bring in really old coffee makers, used blenders, car seats that kids had outgrown, broken electronics, vacuums, irons, sprinklers, old worn clothing, shoes and anything you could think of and "exchange" them or receive cash. After Christmas, the line wrapped around the corner just for returns, we took back any and everything and gave cash in return, no questions asked. We would also accept items believed to be stolen. People used to write bad checks repeatedly store to store and all over town. Then new technology came along and put an end to the abuse.

Quickly after I started, the return policy had changed and KMart started requiring receipts plus there was a new 30 day time frame for returns. There were new computerized registers that would accept an item without a receipt but required a valid drivers license or state i.d., which would then be entered into the "system". Once we entered your drivers license in the computer you could never return anything at any of the stores again. People "hated" the new policies. The majority of those attempting to return stuff were people over 50 who were led to believe that KMart would honor any return if an item did not last forever. Who could blame them, they returned items that way their entire life. This group raised so much hell and took it out on me and the other workers. I outlasted most of the "real" employees who worked there. :(

KMart never had security cameras and they were installed over a holiday, by the end of the week, half of the work staff was fired for stealing, they were robbing the place blind for decades, including my supervisor, she stole over 5000 dollars over the years. They offered me her job, I declined. They caught so many shoplifters. The police were there so much, I knew them on a first name basis. :)

Second semester, I got to work at a TGI Fridays on the weekends. I was supposed to be a waitress, but the manager wouldn't let me and I had to be a hostess. This was awful, I couldn't wait for this to end. In short, I could not believe the amount of people who would sit and enjoy a meal and did not leave a tip. I felt so bad for the waitstaff, they were mostly young adults in college and really needed the money. Plus, grown adults would sneak out and skip paying the bill altogether.

Based on those experiences, I always make it a point to tip well. I go out of my way to express thanks and gratitude toward all customer service employees, every single one of them. I look them in the eye and I talk to them about stuff and I let each one know how much they are appreciated, they just love it. As a result, somebody is always looking out for me when I least expect it. I get the best service, the best seats to the show, the best table, the hottest fashions, the inside scoop on sales and the best deals available because I genuinely care for people and treat them with respect. :goodvibes

Poor manners and bad behavior does not belong to a certain generation. It does seem like more people are flipping out these days, but that includes all age groups. Back in your day, "more was less" and it was just about "good business." Today, "less is more" and good business has been replaced with "fees". Also, we are just coming out of a recession *maybe*, it's still pretty bleak for many people. :)
 
Wow, DRDISNEYMD, that was a great post! Thanks for sharing your experiences. My husband's first job was in a KMart toy dept., and he concurs. :thumbsup2

I have a long history of customer service and sales. I can certainly see goofiernmost's point of view. Been there done that, burned out. Now, I'm a nurse, and surprisingly, it's no different (what was I thinking?). People want the nurse to drop everything and take care of their family member right now! I lost 25 lbs. from the running around and ended up 96 lbs. from the stress of trying to keep up with a patient load of 30 patients.

I work in a rehab facility that also has some long term care residents. Some families want to take an inordinate amount of my time to discuss often trivial matters related to their loved ones. They don't realize that if I get behind with a patient load that large, everyone suffers! The ME ME ME mindset is pervasive everywhere. I don't have data to back this up, just my personal experiences, but it seems to me that todays' self-entitlement is worse than it used to be, even though people have always tried to steal and "get over" on companies. I have too many examples of my own to list here.

No matter what business you are in, you will encounter it. People are people. But I love the posters on this web site!:grouphug:
 
I think the threads that bother me most are the people who ask for tips on how to be family of the day or Grand Marshall or how do I make sure my child gets picked to be _________.

It seems to be a big trend here lately. No one can just have an organic vacation. Everyone wants to be special and yes we all are special in our own way but when you are seeking out the surprises or trying to plan on it you take away the magic.
 
and I can see points that are all relevant.

I'm older and I have to say I felt very sad when the Disney family was no longer part of Disney's higher management and making the big decisions. I think I knew right then and there that Disney and the parks would change forever. I could see the parks being sold, but I also think this may not be so easy to do in this economy.

Disney has been held to a higher standard in my opinion. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes, either. Maybe, there's not enough creativity to make the parks vital in the future. I believe the so called Imagineeers are fading away and to me they are the heart and soul of the parks.

It's hard to say what will be, but I will continue to enjoy the Disney parks for now. All of us are able to voice our dissatisfaction by not going to the parks if it comes down to that level.

I will say for the first in many years I'm contemplating staying off site and not using a dining plan. I have changed my mind to some degree already.
 
DRDISNEYMD, really good post. Geez, i wonder if that has anything to do with Kmart no longer in business for themselves, being bought out by Sears. EDIT: oops, Kmart bought Sears. minor point anyway...

I have to say, though, that customer service issues, and the level of crazyness like you describe, may go hand in hand with the type of store. I can't help but wonder if walmart has the same issues today (in their own way, I'm sure they've got stricter policies than K-mart did at that time).

I know someone who used to work for JC Penny. They also had a silly "return anything, from any store, at anytime, in any condition without a receipt" policy. People brought back used underwear, broken items, stolen items (they pull it off the rack then walk to the register to "return it"), and things JC Penny didn't even sell, and their stupid management said to allow it....stating "we put customers first". Except the problem was the customers they put first with that policy are not the ones they wanted. This policy cost them millions of dollars a year. They finally stopped it when someone with a brain realized they were simply catering to the losers of society who care nothing about their local store, who care nothing about their own morals and values, and who aren't embarrassed to attempt to get cash for used underwear.

Of course people flipped out when they closed this gaping loophole. People said they've never come back...and perhaps some didn't, but good riddance. Many others still come back.
 
I think the threads that bother me most are the people who ask for tips on how to be family of the day or Grand Marshall or how do I make sure my child gets picked to be _________.

It seems to be a big trend here lately. No one can just have an organic vacation. Everyone wants to be special and yes we all are special in our own way but when you are seeking out the surprises or trying to plan on it you take away the magic.

I have noticed this too.:sad2:
 
We're talking about entitled people, always complaining, trying to get more than they paid for or was intended, and CM's that have to deal with those people.
I think that we see more angst on these boards from people who are upset that others might 'get something', then we do from those people who are looking for ways to 'get something'. In my opinion, that's the real thing that we've seen change on these boards. People are becoming a bit too concerned about what other people are doing and then acting like bullies to try to change these strangers.

In the real world, this isn't really a problem. CMs don't go through the handwringing and attacking process that goes on in these boards. Instead, their decisions are mostly defined for them by the company. When a customer approaches them with an out-of-range FP, for instance, they simply have to follow the policy to deal with the situation. While this may become angsty for the customer, the drama for the CM is limited to managing the conversation and likely pretty much goes away once that thirty second interaction is over.
 

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