No room on points but available for cash?

[DougEMG]

For Disney cash reservation to work like a spec rental, they would of had to book all of Aug for that BLT studio. I suppose they do have the points so theoretically they could do that.

 

[chalee94]

If a member uses points outside of DVC, does Disney rent out their rooms during the corresponding dates or do they get chosen at random?

I don't think either would be true.

Disney would not be limited to booking a stay with dates that matched a cruise that I traded pts for. I also doubt that it's random.

I suspect that Disney would tend to choose a mix of options with good demand, so that turning the reservations into cash actually works out.

I'm surprised that *all* of August is available for cash, but not surprised that August would be a typical choice - kids are out of school in the first part of August so demand for cash reservations should be there and also, it does not compete with the strongest owner demand during Fall Frenzy.

(Not that they don't take any fall inventory but I expect the summer months are more heavily weighted.)

 

[crisi]

For Disney cash reservation to work like a spec rental, they would of had to book all of Aug for that BLT studio. I suppose they do have the points so theoretically they could do that.

While it isn't popular here, a lot of people do use their points to cruise, and if I wanted to maximize the probability of receiving cash for those points as Disney, I'd turn them into studio rooms at popular resorts. Maximizing the probability that they can turn those rooms to cash keeps the points required for a Disney cruise at least "sort of" in line with cash costs - which is better for the members who use those options.

(When we did our ABD trip years ago, two of the families were doing ABD on points - that is a lot of points)

 

[rwatson626]

Someone asked a similar question on facebook and the response was DVD has to own a part of the resort. I got mixed answers on the amount but looks like the minimum is 2% of it. Here are the two responses.



Facebook response: DVD own about 5% of the resort, by law they have to own 2%. They also acquire points for cash booking from trade outs and breakage.


Facebook response: I spoke with someone from Disney years ago and ask why this is the case They explained it has to do with the laws regarding timeshares. In Disney's case, the resorts are owned by both Disney and DVC members. They are required by law to book by those percentages. Ex. 40% Disney owned and 60% DVC. ( I don't know in each resort what those percentages are) They are bound under the laws that they have to offer at least 40% cash pay and 60% DVC. I believe I was told they have to wait until about 30 days out before they are allowed to release these rooms for DVC or cash pay depending on demand. Which is why I always waitlist up to 7 days before because those rooms may open up based on the laws they are bound to.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I guess it's hard to write what I'm trying to say. I might be coming across wrong. If Disney has the points from various reasons than and they reserved the room I don't expect them to give it up to me or anyone else. I was trying to say it's hard (not impossible) to find a DVC room for cash that is sold out. So does Disney have that many points to book the rooms to rent out? For example I can pay cash for a studio for the entire month of August with no sold out dates.

Sorry I came off wrong. I don't think I'm entitled to anything. Just shocked Disney would have so many points to reserve every type of room at every resort for all year.

Thanks

View attachment 320292

If Disney just had the 2% they are required to keep ownership of at BLT that's still approx 114,000 points. A lakeview studio booked for a year is only around 7400 points. I don't believe I've seen them list GV's so just their required ownership would allow every other room type and view to be booked for the entire year. And the availability you are seeing for cash could be just a single room. Then if you throw in points traded out and also the probability that DVC has more than the minimum 2% ownership you could book looking at multiple rooms of every type available every single day of the year. I've glanced at cash availability offerings a couple of times and from what I saw then the rooms are not offered until 11 months out - just like any DVC owner could do so they seem to be following that requirement. Then, just like any other owner it's first come and they could book what they wanted when they wanted.

 

[DougEMG]

Technically shouldn't Disney have to follow the UY restrictions of the points they own and that are traded out for cruises, etc.

I bet they don't though.

 

[Simba's Mom]

But that 25% discount isn't available through Disney Reservation Center. Only through Member Services. And it's not always available.

What's strange is that there are occasions where a room isn't available on points, but it is available on member's cash, the 25% off. I remember once calling MS and a room wasn't available at HHI on points. But we really wanted to go there, so I asked about Members' Cash. She started just saying she was sure it wasn't, but then surprisingly, she found that it was available on members cash. I thought the Members' Cash "pool" was the same pool of rooms as points, and the small Disney % of rooms was for regular cash hotel-like bookings.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

What's strange is that there are occasions where a room isn't available on points, but it is available on member's cash, the 25% off. I remember once calling MS and a room wasn't available at HHI on points. But we really wanted to go there, so I asked about Members' Cash. She started just saying she was sure it wasn't, but then surprisingly, she found that it was available on members cash. I thought the Members' Cash "pool" was the same pool of rooms as points, and the small Disney % of rooms was for regular cash hotel-like bookings.

I'd think that whatever venue they use to rent is just a choice. The member cash rooms couldn't also be point rooms - just rooms that DVC needs to rent out for cash to pay for trades.

 

[disneynutz]

Again we don't really know what they do. A "by law" really doesn't apply, they filed docs when they offered each timeshare and they can modify or change the "rules" just by filing revised docs. In addition to the 2 %, any points in inventory can be used as they see fit including undeclared points and I read somewhere that they don't pay dues on those points.

Bill

 

[huskies90]

My experience on this topic is that I think there is alot of very experienced DVC members on this board who like to speculate but have no idea how the cash / points situation works. Disney is a big company with many divisions and if you ever work for a big company you would know how internally dysfunctional it can be and how one division has no idea how the other division operates. I personally think that Disney is holding more and more rooms back from being available on points and making them available on cash. Simply because I have noticed it has gotten harder and harder to get a room on points and waitlists never come thru where as 4 or 5 years ago, I was always able to get something. My gut and speculation is that Disney is doing this to offset the companies that are brokering renting points.

For example, right now, I am trying to book a studio in October - not a single studio available. Not even at SSR or OKW which would always have availability this far out. I would usually book at SSR or OKW and then waitlist at Boardwalk and the waitlist usually came through. I can't remember the last time one of my waitlists came through. So for October, I currently have a room booked on cash and I am waitlisted at SSR and I am guessing my waitlist at SSR will not come thru. I didn't even bother waitlisting Boardwalk this time. And this is October. It is suppose to be one of the slow months. And please don't say "food and wine" because food and wine is pretty much all year now with the expanded dates and with flower and garden and arts doing the food booths.

That being said, even though I was told by just about everyone on this board that I could not book a cash reservation and then convert it to points. I know it can be done because I have done it on two separate occasions. And assuming my waitlist does not come thru for the bazilionth time in the Fall, I will probably try to do it again. Now this could be that nobody here understands how the cash / points allocation works or I am just getting lucky with dysfunctional CMs who have no idea how the inter divisional accounting systems work. Either way YMMV.

 

[supersnoop]

I personally think that Disney is holding more and more rooms back from being available on points and making them available on cash.

I personally think that Florida has very strict timeshare laws and Disney would put a lot of effort into ensuring they can continue to sell and control DVC in the future.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

October is not a slow DVC month and hasn't been for some time.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Someone asked a similar question on facebook and the response was DVD has to own a part of the resort. I got mixed answers on the amount but looks like the minimum is 2% of it. Here are the two responses.



Facebook response: DVD own about 5% of the resort, by law they have to own 2%. They also acquire points for cash booking from trade outs and breakage.


Facebook response: I spoke with someone from Disney years ago and ask why this is the case They explained it has to do with the laws regarding timeshares. In Disney's case, the resorts are owned by both Disney and DVC members. They are required by law to book by those percentages. Ex. 40% Disney owned and 60% DVC. ( I don't know in each resort what those percentages are) They are bound under the laws that they have to offer at least 40% cash pay and 60% DVC. I believe I was told they have to wait until about 30 days out before they are allowed to release these rooms for DVC or cash pay depending on demand. Which is why I always waitlist up to 7 days before because those rooms may open up based on the laws they are bound to.

DVD owns about 2% of each resort, not 5%.
Your 40%/60% is way off. More like 2%/98%. The 2% is used for maintenance and other. So if they take out three buildings at OKW, they use the points they own to cover those blocked villas.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I really doubt that Disney pull many more villas than they have points to cover. Fall Frenzy is what it is, though. But if you figure 2-5% at most resorts, that is hella points.

There are nearly 55 million points at the WDW resorts (roughly 2 million not yet declared out of CCV is included in this estimate). So even if you subtract the undeclared CCV points, that is 53 million. 2% of 53 million is a lot! It is a bit over 1 million points. Throw in the 2 million undeclared, and you're at 3 million points held by Disney, before accounting for any Disney Collection or RCI deposits.

This also isn't accounting for AUL, HHI or VB points held by Disney and possibly used to hold units elsewhere.

 

[disneynutz]

2% is a number that keeps being reported but is that a required minimum, how is that number reported? In reality they own a much higher number, ROFR, foreclosures, undeclared units, points not sold. I don't think that they are forced to sell their points, they could have millions of points.

Bill

 

[ScubaCat]

The condo declarations state that DVD must retain at least 2% of each residential unit.

Obviously nobody outside the building (so to speak) knows specifics about the internal accounting, and I'm fairly sure that Disney has more than enough influence in the state legislature to fudge things here and there to their advantage. That said, I just don't see the upside to not running the DVC inventory by the book. There's already PLENTY of leeway for them to squeeze profits out from every nook and cranny, so I'm pretty confident that they're legit in the bookkeeping. If not, one whistle-blower could cause pretty severe damage to their reputation and financial situation. There are many wealthy, savvy DVC owners with spare cash and lawyers that would pounce on anything illicit.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

2% is minimum. There is no ceiling in law. they can own as much of a resort's points as makes sense.

 

[crisi]

I personally think that Florida has very strict timeshare laws and Disney would put a lot of effort into ensuring they can continue to sell and control DVC in the future.

I'll also add that any member or stockholder who truly believes that Disney is intentionally breaking the law at what would need to be high level of executive involvement should consider selling their membership and/or shares.

 

[wdrl]

FYI: I have been tracking DVC sales for years and have a complete sales history of Bay Lake Tower.

BLT has about 5,733,530 total points, and DVD must retain a minimum of 2%, or about 114,670 points, that cannot be sold to the general public.

As of April 30, 2018, my sales data shows that DVD owns an additional 11,355 BLT points that have not be *sold* to the general public. In reality, some of those 11,355 have recently been sold but the deeds have not yet been recorded with the Orange County Comptroller. It normally takes about 2-4 weeks for a deed that was sold by DVD be be recorded with OCC.

The number of BLT points DVD owns over and above its mandated 2% holding varies from month to month, depending on direct sales and deeds reacquired by DVD. For the last couple of years the monthly excess has been in the 6,000 to 12,000 point range.

As stated above, DVD can do anything with the points it controls. It can use them for marketing purposes, for cash rentals to the general public, or for cash rentals to DVC members. DVD could even sell them to DVC members as One-Time-Use points if it so desires. The points -- and DVD's usage of those points -- are still governed by the Use Year rules. DVD could bank and borrow its points in order to fund cash rentals, etc., just like any other member. However, it cannot violate the UY rules, such as taking unused points from the 2015 UY and using them to fund a reservation in the 2018 UY.

 

[crisi]

As of April 30, 2018, my sales data shows that DVD owns an additional 11,355 BLT points that have not be *sold* to the general public. In reality, some of those 11,355 have recently been sold but the deeds have not yet been recorded with the Orange County Comptroller. It normally takes about 2-4 weeks for a deed that was sold by DVD be be recorded with OCC.

That is some dedication. Wouldn't the deed recording work both ways - if DVC exercises ROFR on a contract that would also take 2-4 weeks to show up at the county?