No child left behind ( NOT a debate)

binny

do something that MATTERS!
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Someone was aking a while back about the No child Left behind act....
I dont want to start a debate please, Im just passing on the information that I received today. As a parent of both a G&T and a special needs child, I see both sides of this act and have my own feelings about it but here is what I received today in my email....


Greetings,
The current issue of Education Week (June 23) includes commentary on how No Child Left Behind leaves gifted students behind. The author is Margaret DeLacy, legislative chair and board member of the Oregon Association for the Talented & Gifted.
I've attached a copy of the commentary for your information. It is also available on Ed Week's website, www.edweek.com, but the site requires registration before you may access full text of the commentary.
NAGC will have a link to the article on our website in the next day or so, and Margaret has granted permission to reprint the article in association and other newsletters. Please note, however, that the permission (1) does not include the Education Week logo (for those of you visiting the Ed Week site); and (2) should include Margaret's name and identifying information.
Thank you Margaret for submitting the commentary!
Jane Clarenbach NAGC>>

The 'No Child' Law's Biggest
Victims? An Answer That May Surprise
By Margaret DeLacy

Since education is high on the national agenda, here's a pop quiz that every American should take.
Question: What group of students makes the lowest achievement gains in school?
Answer: The brightest students.
In a pioneering study of the effects of teachers and schools on student learning, William Sanders and his staff at the Tennessee Value-Added Assessment System put in this way: "Student achievement level was the second most important predictor of student learning. The higher the achievement level, the less growth a student was likely to have."
Mr. Sanders found this problem in schools throughout the state, and with different levels of poverty and of minority enrollments. He speculated that the problem was due to a "lack of opportunity for high-scoring students to proceed at their own pace, lack of challenging materials, lack of accelerated course offerings, and concentration of instruction on the average or below-average student."
While less effective teachers produced gains for lower-achieving students, Mr. Sanders found, only the top one-fifth of teachers were effective with high-achieving students. These problems have been confirmed in other states. There is overwhelming evidence that gifted students simply do not succeed on their own.
Question: What group of students has been harmed most by the No Child Left Behind Act?
Answer: Our brightest students.
The federal law seeks to ensure that all students meet minimum standards. Most districts, in their desperate rush to improve the performance of struggling students, have forgotten or ignored their obligations to students who exceed standards. These students spend their days reviewing material for proficiency tests they mastered years before, instead of learning something new. This is a profoundly alienating experience.
Question: How well is the United States preparing able students to compete in the world economy?
Answer: Very poorly.
Of all students obtaining doctorates in engineering in American universities, just 39 percent are Americans. According to the Third International Mathematics and Science Study, "The performance of U.S. physics and advanced math students was among the lowest of the 16 countries that administered the ... assessments."
Question: What group of special-needs students receives the least funding?
Answer: Our brightest students.
And it's getting worse. For example, Illinois, New York, and Oregon recently cut all state funding for gifted programs.
Given these facts, why has a board commissioned by the National Research Council proposed to make things much worse? The board's report, ironically entitled "Engaging Schools: Fostering High School Students' Motivation to Learn," contains recommendations that amount to a recipe for completely alienating our most capable children. Based on old, discredited, and sloppy research, the committee, which did not include any experts on gifted education, recommended the elimination of all "formal or informal" tracking-even if participation was voluntary-in favor of mixed-ability classrooms.
Does tracking really harm students? Jeannie Oakes claimed that it did in a popular but, to my mind, poorly researched book called Keeping Track published nearly 20 years ago. However, a 1998 review of the evidence on tracking over the past two decades, done by Tom Loveless, the director of the Brookings Institution's Brown Center on Education Policy, found no consensus that tracking is harmful or creates unequal opportunities for academic achievement. This review was ignored in the NRC panel's 40 pages of research citations.
Also missing was any reference to a 1993 report from the U.S. Department of Education, "National Excellence," in which then-Secretary of Education Richard W. Riley noted a "quiet crisis" in the education of top students, pointing out that "these students have special needs that are seldom met," and warning that "our neglect of these students makes it impossible for Americans to compete in a global economy demanding their skills."
Although research on schoolwide tracking cuts both ways, research pointing to the importance of advanced classes and grouping for gifted students is overwhelming.
A research review by Karen B. Rogers found that grouping gifted students produces big gains-sometimes exceeding half a year's additional achievement per year in school when curriculum is modified appropriately. On the other hand, she found that cooperative learning within mixed-ability groups produces no gains.
In her 2002 book Re-Forming Gifted Education (also ignored by the NRC panel), Ms. Rogers noted that under the mixed-ability-group instruction recommended by the NRC, "few students, except those with exceptionally low ability, will benefit."
A statistical analysis published in 1992 by James A. Kulik demonstrated that the benefits from advanced classes for talented students were "positive, large, and important" and said that [de-tracking] could greatly damage American education." Student achievement would suffer, Mr. Kulik maintained, and the damage would be greatest if schools "eliminated enriched and accelerated classes for their brightest learners. The achievement level of such students falls dramatically." He also found that students of all ability levels benefit from grouping that adjusts the curriculum to their aptitude levels.
A study of intermediate students' math achievement published in 2002 by Carol Tieso also found that differentiated instruction combined with flexible grouping improved academic achievement. Ms. Tieso concluded that students from all socioeconomic backgrounds made gains, and that students enjoyed working in differentiated groups and were more motivated than peers in a comparison group.
Even the National Research Council board acknowledged that teachers would require a lot of specialized training to carry out its recommendations in "Engaging Minds." Differentiation is hard to do well. Teachers must know how to assess students who are years above grade level and then be able to rewrite the whole curriculum to address their assessed learning needs. Although the board members must know that this training has not been provided and is not going to happen, they went ahead and recklessly recommended a policy that will harm many capable, hard-working students in the hope that it might help some struggling students.
They seem to be unaware of the daily realities affecting American schools. Studies by the National Research Center on the Gifted and Talented have repeatedly found that teachers do not make significant modifications to their instruction to accommodate gifted students.
This past November, Seattle teachers issued a resolution protesting a directive requiring advanced instruction for highly capable students in their classrooms because they had neither the time, training, and class size, nor the resources necessary to carry it out. Ability grouping is significantly more cost-effective, requires less training, and is more effective in this regard than heterogeneous classes. Do we have education dollars to waste?
Gifted students are truly our forgotten children. Neglected in our schools and ignored by our policymakers, they spend their days dozing through classes in which they aren't learning. Many suffer from depression. It is time to take them out of their holding pens and give them a chance to stretch and to grow.
Margaret DeLacy is a board member of the Oregon Association for Talented and Gifted students and a past president of the Portland, Oregon, school district's talented-and-gifted advisory committee. She is the mother of three.
 
I'm not a fan of the "No Child Left Behind" policy, but as a "gifted" child WAY back in the 70's-80's (pre-NCLB) I can say that, at least in my school district, there wasn't much done to encourage us then either. We had our "gifted class" that we attended one day each week. I guess it was supposed to encourage creativity...:confused: We saw it as play time, and sometimes dreaded it because some teachers weren't happy about us missing class and made things difficult as far as making up missed classwork. Personally, I hated being so obviously singled out as "special" at a time in my life when I, as most kids, just wanted to blend in and be like everyone else. Some of my "gifted" classmates went on to have successful careers, others, like me, are stay-at-home moms, and a couple dropped out before graduating high school. Unfortunately, many of us (probably most of us) were more intelligent and often more knowledgable than our teachers and neither the teachers nor administration knew what to do with us. From what I have seen it isn't much different in my boys' school now. :(
 
Money does not grow on trees. Taxpayer funded schools need to service as many students as possible. The parents of "gifted" students, IMO, should be responsibe for additional enrichment, not the taxpyers.
 
Originally posted by tonyswife
Money does not grow on trees. Taxpayer funded schools need to service as many students as possible. The parents of "gifted" students, IMO, should be responsibe for additional enrichment, not the taxpyers.
What about the students needing additional help because they can't keep up...ie, the "falling behind" students. Our schools provide after-school help to them at no additional charge to their parents. Same thing, IMO.

Edited to add: That actually isn't even the point, as our schools ARE paying to fund a "gifted program." The problem is in the structuring of that program. So, I guess the money is being spent, at the taxpayers' expense, it just isn't being spent wisely.
 

Originally posted by jcemom
What about the students needing additional help because they can't keep up...ie, the "falling behind" students. Our schools provide after-school help to them at no additional charge to their parents. Same thing, IMO.

Edited to add: That actually isn't even the point, as our schools ARE paying to fund a "gifted program." The problem is in the structuring of that program. So, I guess the money is being spent, at the taxpayers' expense, it just isn't being spent wisely.

I don't know. That's a tough one really. I mean, I personally believe that a lot of kids are labled far too early in their lives on both ends of the spectrum. Because kids learn differently, IMO, does not make them in all cases either "slow" or "gifted" I think the public schools should offer comprehensive basic education and the parents should supplement with appropriate extracurricular education in the home. I also understand that this is an ideal and not a reality. There is no easy solution.
 
As a taxpayer, I am only too happy to fund those gifted and talented programs. These kids are our future and they will be the ones performing our brain surgeries and running our country soon.
 
crs, I agree except I don't think it's that simple. The surgeons and politicians are not the only ones that are "our future" The garbage collectors and grocery clerks are our future as well. In fact, they may be even more important in our day to day lives. It is imperitive that every student learn basic life skills. If nobody can balance a checkbook or manage personal finances or effectively parent their children then it doesn't matter how many brain surgeons we have. With limited funds, we have to prepare every student, not just the ones we think are smarter than the others.
 
Just a hunch, but I somehow doubt that the current crop of politicians out there were much of a strain on the gifted budgets of their respective school districts, but that's just a guess :hyper:

We have fallen behind precisely because of the attitude that makes this sentence: ".......not just the ones we think are smarter than the others." It's not a matter of thinking that some kids are smarter than others. It's a matter of getting rid of the misguided notion that slower kids deserve more attention than smarter ones.

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread, but I just can't stand the thought process that would lead to this kind of thing. Kids capable of achieving more than the basics should be encouraged to do so, and I could really give a damn how much of somebody's tax dollars have to go to the program to ensure that it happens.
 
Originally posted by crs7568
As a taxpayer, I am only too happy to fund those gifted and talented programs. These kids are our future and they will be the ones performing our brain surgeries and running our country soon.

Well I wasn't a gifted student. I guess I will not have any positive impact on society. :o
 
There is no easy solution.
I wholeheartedly agree.
These kids are our future and they will be the ones performing our brain surgeries and running our country soon.
That's what you would think, huh? But in my experience that isn't what happens. I've no doubt that I was capable of becoming a brain surgeon. However, I was SO bored with school before getting as far as high school that I just wanted out. Supplementing my education outside of school would have been nice had my parents been able to afford it, but it wouldn't have helped with the hours upon endless hours that I sat at my desk staring at the ceiling or doodling on my notebook--wasted hours. I loved school at first, because I always enjoyed learning, but by third or fourth grade I wasn't really learning. For the most part I already knew everything they were "teaching."
 
As a taxpayer, I am only too happy to fund those gifted and talented programs. These kids are our future and they will be the ones performing our brain surgeries and running our country soon.

ITA. While it is true that we need garbage collectors and grocery clerks, most of us are capable of doing those jobs with some training. The vast majority of us, however, are not capable of doing really spectacular world-changing things, such as finding cures for dread diseases, or of being brain surgeons. I want to make sure the people who CAN do such things get the chance! If we don't give the children who are capable of such an appropriate education, we are shortchanging both them and ourselves. If they are not challenged, then they are much less likely to challenge themselves -- it's human nature.

I am absolutely not surprised that gifted kids are the ones being shortchanged. My very gifted oldest child was in third grade the first year of North Carolina's comprehensive testing program and third grade was the first big year. He made all A+s and spent pretty much the entire year staring out the window and making up stories in his mind. He absolutely hated school that year (had liked it up until then), and although he went on to get a National Merit Scholarship, he never regained a love of school. His teacher did well, though, as far as number of children on grade level -- the only thing being measured at that point -- so I guess you could say that class had a "comprehensive basic education."
 
Originally posted by jcemom
I wholeheartedly agree.
That's what you would think, huh? But in my experience that isn't what happens. I've no doubt that I was capable of becoming a brain surgeon. However, I was SO bored with school before getting as far as high school that I just wanted out. Supplementing my education outside of school would have been nice had my parents been able to afford it, but it wouldn't have helped with the hours upon endless hours that I sat at my desk staring at the ceiling or doodling on my notebook--wasted hours. I loved school at first, because I always enjoyed learning, but by third or fourth grade I wasn't really learning. For the most part I already knew everything they were "teaching."
jcemom, I know EXACTLY where you are coming from, because I was in roughly the same position. Bored to tears by 5th grade, I'd been reading at a high school level since 2nd...Was doing basic algebra in 3rd...and was basically held back by the fact that my junior high didn't offer algebra to 7th graders, which meant that I had to repeat pre-algebra...from the exact same book I'd used in 6th grade. I never even studied for a test...not ONCE...until I was in high school calculus. Just never needed to, and my teachers (with a very few exceptions) just couldn't be bothered to provide an actual challenge.

I don't mean that all to sound like bragging, either, as I was far from unique in that situation. Unfortunately, there were just not enough teachers to go around, and so the class size forced the teachers to focus on getting the slower kids up-to-par, rather than pushing those of us that already surpassed the minimum requirements. That's why it irks me to see someone talk about how everyone should be treated equally by the system...students like you and I weren't treated equally. We got far less personal attention from our teachers, because we required far less to achieve the minimum amount possible to be passed up to the next grade. Sure, the extra attention helped them...but it could have helped us, as well.
 
Originally posted by wvrevy
Just a hunch, but I somehow doubt that the current crop of politicians out there were much of a strain on the gifted budgets of their respective school districts, but that's just a guess :hyper:


Typical.

We have fallen behind precisely because of the attitude that makes this sentence: ".......not just the ones we think are smarter than the others."

What is it about my "attitude" that you find so offensive?


It's not a matter of thinking that some kids are smarter than others. It's a matter of getting rid of the misguided notion that slower kids deserve more attention than smarter ones.

Who, in this thread, said that?

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread, but I just can't stand the thought process that would lead to this kind of thing. Kids capable of achieving more than the basics should be encouraged to do so,

EVERY child should be ecouraged to achieve, period.


and I could really give a damn how much of somebody's tax dollars have to go to the program to ensure that it happens.
:rolleyes:


You don't "give a damn"? Well, too bad. Tax dollars should be spent to enrich society as a whole, not to cater to individuals at society's expense.
 
I could swear there was a ruling once about students having an education "based on their level" that I thought incuded gifted students. I just can't remember it.
Yes, binny, I agree that t & g are often left behind. Even before NCLB we were told the t & g program here had been down away with because of lack of funding. I feel the funding was there, but shifted to another area. We are in a very low socio-economic community and the scores, although good, need to constantly be improved. They definitely focus on the low to average students.
I was a test proctor for 3-6 graders this year. The teachers were thrilled with the 10-15 point jumps the lower to average students made between fall and spring. But I talked to several moms of the top group who said their kids only made 1-5 point jumps. Several answers were given:
1.) As you get higher a small jump means just as much as a larger one further down.
2.) Do we really expect the 4th graders who scored solid 8th grade across the board to jump in to the 10th grade percentile in 8 months?
3.) Or perhaps they weren't stimulated enough.
I don't think there's an easy answer but I'd sure like to see the t & g's get their due as well.
 
Originally posted by tonyswife
Typical.
Funny, I said "politicians" and you automatically assumed I meant "Bush"...Wonder why that is ? :hyper:
Originally posted by tonyswife
What is it about my "attitude" that you find so offensive?
Nothing, other than it seems to reflect the "dumbing down of America" that is so obvious these days. It's a "the baby can't eat steak, so we're all having mush for dinner" kind of mentality that I just can't stand (from liberals just as much as from conservatives, by the way).
Originally posted by tonyswife
Who, in this thread, said that?
Essentially, you did. By teaching to the middle of the class and ensuring that the slowest kids can keep up, you will be, by default, ignoring the brighter kids that don't need tons of help learning the absolute basics.
Originally posted by tonyswife
EVERY child should be ecouraged to achieve, period.
Yeah, unless they don't need encouragement to achieve the minimum requirements, in which case we'll just ignore them :rolleyes:
Originally posted by tonyswife
You don't "give a damn"? Well, too bad. Tax dollars should be spent to enrich society as a whole, not to cater to individuals at society's expense.
"Cater to individuals at society's expense" ? You've got to be kidding...Since when is it harmful to society to educate, to the best of your ability, the best and the brightest ? Nobody is saying ignore the slower kids in favor of the brighter ones. What we (and the original article) are saying is that you shouldn't ignore the brighter ones, either.
 
The more "gifted" a student is, the more individualized their education has to be in order to challenge them. It is unrealistic to expect that cookie cutter "gifted" programs in public schools will enrich the education of truely "gifted" students. If we spend the necessary money to individualize the curriculum for a few students, we take away from the basic educations of the average students.

I'm not saying that gited students do not require or deserve to be challenged, I'm saying the public schools are unable to adequatly do it.

Where are the kid's parents? The parents cannot challenge their children beyond their basic education?
 
jcemom, do you think that a more challenging program would have kept you interested in school? I think that it is criminal that good students become bored and lose their enthusiasm for learning. I wholeheartedly agree with you, I think that many students are academically disinterested at an early age for a variety of reasons.


Miss Jasmine, I was not a gifted and talented student either. However, I am a teacher today and firmly believe that I have a positive influence on society. I am not sure what part of my quote offended you. I certainly did not mean to imply that only the gifted and talented were destined to become worthwhile citizens. However, it is probable that those students will be the future neurosurgeons and physicians.

wvrevy, you are too funny!;)

tonyswife, I agree with you that we need to invest in the education of all children. Some of my best classroom discussions have been with students that are not the highest achievers. Sadly, we live in a time where taxpayers are voting down school budgets and districts are forced to choose which group of students will be the fortunate ones to receive the programming. Special education is mandated but gifted and talented enrichment is not. I think that both programs are necessary and worthwhile.

I apologize if my comment has turned this into a debate which I know was not my intention nor was it the intention of the OP.
 
Originally posted by tonyswife

Where are the kid's parents? The parents cannot challenge their children beyond their basic education?


Wow! Would you say this to the parent of a special education student? We need to realize that children are our future and work to give them more than a "basic education".

wvrevy, I am a staunch conservative and I took no offense at your comment. In fact, it did not occur to me that any particular group was being targeted. It was a funny comment.
 
Originally posted by tonyswife
Where are the kid's parents? The parents cannot challenge their children beyond their basic education?

Could it be that some children are brighter than their parents? I have a 10 year old with a 9th grade reading level. Another year and she's smarter than me!:D Oh, yeah! I just remembered she got a 8th grade 6th month equivalency on her test last fall too. I was HORRIBLE at math, especially once you throw the alphabet in!
My sister was a 4.0 through college. When her dd was a junior her parents couldn't help her with her schoolwork because it was above and beyond the stuff they'd had in college 20 years earlier. My sister said so much had changed she didn't understand some of it. I just wanted to point out that it's not just the elementary years that have the gifted students. It's just that in high school there is the opportunity for higher level
science, math, language, etc. They can also take AP classes, as long as funding and a qualified teacher is available.
 
Originally posted by crs7568
jcemom, do you think that a more challenging program would have kept you interested in school?
Yes.
Where are the kid's parents? The parents cannot challenge their children beyond their basic education?
My parents did their best, but really, after sitting at a desk doing absolutely nothing for six hours...try it and see how inspired you are afterwards. Do basically nothing for six hours a day, five days a week, 9 months a year...

By high school I was still getting straight A's, but was also cutting class and skipping school every chance I could. I would NOT have done that if I hadn't been bored to tears for years on end. And I was, literally, bored to tears. Ask my mother. I used to cry most every morning asking for her to please let me stay home from school. The year I graduated (in the top 10 of my class) I missed somewhere around 25 days of school.
 


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