News Round Up 2016

[skier_pete]

Per reliable source from WDWMagic - the huge land acquisition by Uni may be a third gate, but it won't be announced until 2018 or 2019, and won't be built and ready til 2021. Thanks Martin!

My question, and this might be better as a seperate thread, but if the do build the third gate, will this force Disney to go to a 5th gate? With these timings, SWE, and TSL will be done, and IF there is a 3rd phase that will be at least started at DHS. Avatar land will be fully in swing...is that enough for Disney to not have to go 5th gate?

I don't think a 5th gate is what is necessary. What a 3rd gate at Universal does - in theory - is bring the battle for the full week vacationer. Universal so far doesn't really do this. I know there are people out there that will tell you "We always go to Universal for a week" the ratio of people that do that right now for Disney:Universal is probably 500:1. Most people either split there vacation time amongst all the themed entertainment in Orlando....or either take a day or two away from Disney. In addition- and I've been saying this for years - Universal probably brings as many people TO Disney as it draws FROM them. People take a trip to Florida because of Harry Potter - but then spend 3 days at Universal and 5 at Disney.

When/If Universal can truly draw full-week patrons AND it becomes a competition for drawing those full week visitors. THEN things become interesting. However, I STILL don't think that necessarily means a 5th gate. What it potentially means is Disney may need to find a way to compete with Universal. Disney will always be the king for the family/little ones market - but if they decide to start to compete with Universal for the thrill side of things. It is quite possible that Star Wars may be the first retaliation shot in that "future" war.

But I've said this before as well - the true winners in this should be us the consumer. Better attractions and possibly competitive pricing.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

News

First look at the Roaring Rapids ride at Shanghai... And the large creature AA doesn't work, and has mechanics exposed....

Looks pretty cool! Feels like waves were "rougher" than in the US park rides like that

Interesting that they have the animatronic "monster" in that ride and then plan to build Expedition Everest there

 

[luisov]

Yeah, no 5th gate necessary. Even after Star Wars/Pandora/Frozen, three of the parks still have a lot of room for improvement. Even MK could use that rumored Frontierland expansion.

The average lenght of the regular vacation does not increase with time. Building another park wouldn't change that, and ultimately it would only cannibalize the attendance of the other parks. The best Disney can do to respond to Universal building a third gate would be to take their current parks to their full potential before even considering opening a 5th one.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I don't think a 5th gate is what is necessary. What a 3rd gate at Universal does - in theory - is bring the battle for the full week vacationer. Universal so far doesn't really do this. I know there are people out there that will tell you "We always go to Universal for a week" the ratio of people that do that right now for Disney:Universal is probably 500:1. Most people either split there vacation time amongst all the themed entertainment in Orlando....or either take a day or two away from Disney. In addition- and I've been saying this for years - Universal probably brings as many people TO Disney as it draws FROM them. People take a trip to Florida because of Harry Potter - but then spend 3 days at Universal and 5 at Disney.

When/If Universal can truly draw full-week patrons AND it becomes a competition for drawing those full week visitors. THEN things become interesting. However, I STILL don't think that necessarily means a 5th gate. What it potentially means is Disney may need to find a way to compete with Universal. Disney will always be the king for the family/little ones market - but if they decide to start to compete with Universal for the thrill side of things. It is quite possible that Star Wars may be the first retaliation shot in that "future" war.

But I've said this before as well - the true winners in this should be us the consumer. Better attractions and possibly competitive pricing.

Agree with your thoughts about the 3rd gate for Universal (and Volcano Bay added in as well if it is a true "themed water park") that is can increase the duration of stay at Universal

Was talking with someone last night who knows people who are non-Disney fans but are Avatar fans and really excited about Pandora ... so wonder if that could lead to people doing the reverse of what is common now - non traditional Disney fans spending the bulk of their stay at Universal but then do a day or two at Disney for Pandora and then Star Wars as well once that is done

 

[rteetz]

Per reliable source from WDWMagic - the huge land acquisition by Uni may be a third gate, but it won't be announced until 2018 or 2019, and won't be built and ready til 2021. Thanks Martin!

My question, and this might be better as a seperate thread, but if the do build the third gate, will this force Disney to go to a 5th gate? With these timings, SWE, and TSL will be done, and IF there is a 3rd phase that will be at least started at DHS. Avatar land will be fully in swing...is that enough for Disney to not have to go 5th gate?

Martin said that? I am pretty sure that was spirit. He has been saying for a while now that we won't be seeing a third gate announced yet but will see hotels and more attractions announced.

 

[mollmoll4]

Probably has it's own thread already but I'm gonna throw it in here:

Expansion to Typhoon Lagoon planned (according to permits filed)

http://wdwnt.com/blog/2016/06/breaking-typhoon-lagoon-expansion-planned-with-new-family-raft-ride/

 

[rteetz]

Looks pretty cool! Feels like waves were "rougher" than in the US park rides like that

Interesting that they have the animatronic "monster" in that ride and then plan to build Expedition Everest there

Its possible Everest could have a different theme though. I just hope they get the AA working.

 

[skier_pete]

Probably has it's own thread already but I'm gonna throw it in here:

Expansion to Typhoon Lagoon planned (according to permits filed)

http://wdwnt.com/blog/2016/06/breaking-typhoon-lagoon-expansion-planned-with-new-family-raft-ride/

That's cool - the water parks are so stuck in their original design - BB has nothing new ever and Crush N Gusher the only "new" thing at TL since opening. However, they are wonderful theme parks of themselves, and often dimissed from discussion.I sometimes feel Disney would like to rid itself of these parks. An additional ride would prove me wrong.

 

[rteetz]

News

Moana teaser trailer releases this Sunday.

 

[rteetz]

News

Frozen Ever After signage is up

https://twitter.com/skippercameron/status/740577000696492032

 

[Alice Royal]

News

First look at the Roaring Rapids ride at Shanghai... And the large creature AA doesn't work, and has mechanics exposed....

That is SO not up to standard (talking about the unfinished AA)...I realise it's still in dress rehearsals, but...that's still not standard practice for that.

 

[Phicinfan]

Martin said that? I am pretty sure that was spirit. He has been saying for a while now that we won't be seeing a third gate announced yet but will see hotels and more attractions announced.

Whoops, my bad, you are correct - fixed it

 

[Phicinfan]

I don't think a 5th gate is what is necessary. What a 3rd gate at Universal does - in theory - is bring the battle for the full week vacationer. Universal so far doesn't really do this. I know there are people out there that will tell you "We always go to Universal for a week" the ratio of people that do that right now for Disney:Universal is probably 500:1. Most people either split there vacation time amongst all the themed entertainment in Orlando....or either take a day or two away from Disney. In addition- and I've been saying this for years - Universal probably brings as many people TO Disney as it draws FROM them. People take a trip to Florida because of Harry Potter - but then spend 3 days at Universal and 5 at Disney.

When/If Universal can truly draw full-week patrons AND it becomes a competition for drawing those full week visitors. THEN things become interesting. However, I STILL don't think that necessarily means a 5th gate. What it potentially means is Disney may need to find a way to compete with Universal. Disney will always be the king for the family/little ones market - but if they decide to start to compete with Universal for the thrill side of things. It is quite possible that Star Wars may be the first retaliation shot in that "future" war.

But I've said this before as well - the true winners in this should be us the consumer. Better attractions and possibly competitive pricing.

I don't disagree with you at all. To me there are two timing issues. One is will even with a third gate, UNI be a full week vacation or not, some feel yes, I am not so sure, that would depend on what exactly is built. The other key is do people really feel they have time to go to a fifth gate at WDW? I know when we travel to FL, we are feeling pushed to do all we want to do, and we usually can't extend more than we take now, so a fifth gate would be a huge challenge to fit in. Especially with all the adds in DHS coming. I love DHS, and can't wait for SWE and TSL.

I am just surprised at how many feel Uni is pushing Disney. To me, Uni is still playing catch up. Once they build, if they do...or when..., the third gate, to me that only puts them closer, but still not there to a full week and really pushing Disney. Only time will tell though

 

[eXo]

Was talking with someone last night who knows people who are non-Disney fans but are Avatar fans and really excited about Pandora ...

Wait, there are such things as "avatar fans"?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging on the movie. I thought it was perfectly fine and the best use of 3D cameras to date (at the time of release). But between the fact it came out 7 years ago and ultimately, it's just blue people living in the jungle fighting "the man"... well, I guess it's hard for me to understand where fandom exists in that. Movies like LOTR and HP have huge casts of unique characters based in a world with deep folklore and history. Did any of the Pandorians actually have backstories? Maybe it's more my fault than the movies, but all I remember is Ridley and a dude in a wheelchair jacking into blue bodies and learning the ways of the tribesman. It was great throw away fun, but not exactly a deep world full of history and interest.

After watching Zootopia the other day I pictured Iger kicking himself in the butt for not developing that property sooner and building that instead of Pandora. Not only would they have owned it 100%, but it has a lot more potential for storyline exploration.

Dinoland could always use an overhaul though.... Or heck, just rename EPCOT to EPZOT, Experimental Prototype Zootopia of Tomorrow

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Wait, there are such things as "avatar fans"?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging on the movie. I thought it was perfectly fine and the best use of 3D cameras to date (at the time of release). But between the fact it came out 7 years ago and ultimately, it's just blue people living in the jungle fighting "the man"... well, I guess it's hard for me to understand where fandom exists in that. Movies like LOTR and HP have huge casts of unique characters based in a world with deep folklore and history. Did any of the Pandorians actually have backstories? Maybe it's more my fault than the movies, but all I remember is Ridley and a dude in a wheelchair jacking into blue bodies and learning the ways of the tribesman. It was great throw away fun, but not exactly a deep world full of history and interest.

After watching Zootopia the other day I pictured Iger kicking himself in the butt for not developing that property sooner and building that instead of Pandora. Not only would they have owned it 100%, but it has a lot more potential for storyline exploration.

Dinoland could always use an overhaul though.... Or heck, just rename EPCOT to EPZOT, Experimental Prototype Zootopia of Tomorrow

The person I spoke with phrased it that it was very much about Pandora the place rather than the characters in the movie and he knows people that were just obsessed with the concept and almost depressed thinking about that they could never go there - so they are over the moon that they will get the chance to do that when the land opens in Disney World

So while it might not be a big group of people it does seems like this is a "new" group of people for Disney to attract

 

[rteetz]

The person I spoke with phrased it that it was very much about Pandora the place rather than the characters in the movie and he knows people that were just obsessed with the concept and almost depressed thinking about that they could never go there - so they are over the moon that they will get the chance to do that when the land opens in Disney World

So while it might not be a big group of people it does seems like this is a "new" group of people for Disney to attract

Correct the land won't have character tie ins but will be much about the land of Pandora hence the name. Pandora: The World of Avatar.

 

[eXo]

I am just surprised at how many feel Uni is pushing Disney. To me, Uni is still playing catch up. Once they build, if they do...or when..., the third gate, to me that only puts them closer, but still not there to a full week and really pushing Disney. Only time will tell though

In the scheme of # of attractions and gates, sure, Universal is still catching up. But it may not be their goal to compete on that level, in which case they aren't catching up as much as they are focusing on their own demographic. It's pretty well accepted that Disney is *the* destination for families and little ones. But in the world of thrill rides and immersion, Universal simply out performs Disney. That's not to say Disney fails at these things. They simply aren't really focused on that style of attraction.

What Universal has managed to do is really tap into pop culture while Disney actually creates pop culture and then eventually gets around to building an attraction based on it. Obviously this means Disney stands to make more cash, as they outright own their properties from start to finish. Universal on the other hand can mobilize much faster. Rather than worry about getting 7 HP films to theaters, all they have to do is sit back and wait for a movie in their wheel house to catch on big enough to cross the threshold into becoming an attraction. Or in HP's case, buy the rights to build attractions based on it.

Universal doesn't need 4 gates, 2 water parks, and umphteen resorts to compete with Disney unless they are going for the exact same piece of the pie. All they have to do is provide unique experiences that Disney can't provide (Simpsons, HP, Marvel, etc), and take advantage of the fact that families attending Disney have already sunk in the travel costs. A third gate simply adds more to their pile of unique attractions.

Universal will continue being a leading destination of thrill rides with a growing emphasis on high tech movie immersion rides and Disney will continue being the number 1 family / nostalgic destination. From that perspective it isn't about catching up, it's simply about being the best at whatever your focused on.

 

[rteetz]

Photo update

Homecoming at Disney Springs progress

http://www.wdwmagic.com/dining/chef...6-photos---homecoming-construction-update.htm

 

[eXo]

The person I spoke with phrased it that it was very much about Pandora the place rather than the characters in the movie and he knows people that were just obsessed with the concept and almost depressed thinking about that they could never go there - so they are over the moon that they will get the chance to do that when the land opens in Disney World

So while it might not be a big group of people it does seems like this is a "new" group of people for Disney to attract

That makes sense.... I mean, the world itself was pretty interesting. But I have similar concerns about Pandora as I do about the Star Wars land. I'll use Diagon Alley as an example.

The alley itself is themed immaculately. The employees are all in character and have great costumes. But your still surrounded, shoulder to shoulder, by a bunch of tourists. Diagon and Star Wars can offset this a bit as they are already supposed to be major hubs. I have trouble imagining how one reconciles the supposed majestic beauty of an alien jungle when it is overrun by people in fanny packs and crocs. Snark aside, I'll be curious to see how well Pandora holds uyp when it is brimming with people.

 

[Budshark]

While I agree to a degree - I think there would be a lot of people that would buy contracts to do 2-3 night stays multiple times per year. I am not saying that DVC in California would compete with Florida, but I suspect there is more than enough of a market to extend the DVC market there - even as much as a full resort. I just think it unlikely.

To do that you need an SSR to gobble up the last minute bookings. We did this in Florida - but the thing about 2-3 night stays is they have to be flexible (last minute). You don't typically plan a 2-3 night stay 11 months in advance. But, there is never rooms available with 30-90 day notice in California. Adding another 70-100 rooms won't fix that. They need several hundred.

In the scheme of # of attractions and gates, sure, Universal is still catching up. But it may not be their goal to compete on that level, in which case they aren't catching up as much as they are focusing on their own demographic. It's pretty well accepted that Disney is *the* destination for families and little ones. But in the world of thrill rides and immersion, Universal simply out performs Disney. That's not to say Disney fails at these things. They simply aren't really focused on that style of attraction.

What Universal has managed to do is really tap into pop culture while Disney actually creates pop culture and then eventually gets around to building an attraction based on it. Obviously this means Disney stands to make more cash, as they outright own their properties from start to finish. Universal on the other hand can mobilize much faster. Rather than worry about getting 7 HP films to theaters, all they have to do is sit back and wait for a movie in their wheel house to catch on big enough to cross the threshold into becoming an attraction. Or in HP's case, buy the rights to build attractions based on it.

Universal doesn't need 4 gates, 2 water parks, and umphteen resorts to compete with Disney unless they are going for the exact same piece of the pie. All they have to do is provide unique experiences that Disney can't provide (Simpsons, HP, Marvel, etc), and take advantage of the fact that families attending Disney have already sunk in the travel costs. A third gate simply adds more to their pile of unique attractions.

Universal will continue being a leading destination of thrill rides with a growing emphasis on high tech movie immersion rides and Disney will continue being the number 1 family / nostalgic destination. From that perspective it isn't about catching up, it's simply about being the best at whatever your focused on.

Universal is going for the same pie and is targeting the Disney genre. Universals goal is to replace Disney as the destination for families in Orlando. They are no longer competing for scraps and overflow as the "secondary" parks did for years. They are looking to disrupt and replace Disney - no doubt about it.