NEW VGF Building

[M:SpilotISTC12]

The larger size rooms in the building they are converting might mean they don't do a traditional studio layout so then the point requirements might be more. Or they might be less. If it is considered a deluxe standard or lakeview studio then it will just be the same as existing. Consider CCV that has the 5 or 6 so called alternate studio layouts. They are still the same point requirement as any studio.

Not sure if this has been discussed...
Grand Floridian rooms are 440sf.
Grand Floridian Deluxe studios are 374sq.

Likely, these new studios will be significantly bigger than the "original" GF deluxe studios.

They will have to play with the point chart to make this work. Potentially, introduce new room categories -- hard to imagine that a 440sf studio would cost the same points as a 374sf studio.

That's what I'm hoping for, that the original smaller studios are a little cheaper. If that were the case I would buy at VGF. I don't mind having to fight for a cheaper studio and having to settle on a larger one if I don't land the cheaper one.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Ok that’s all accounted for already in my math by comparing it to cash prices so what else you got

I doubt your math is capable of accurately forecasting DVC’s exact pricing and sales strategy. I’m sure there are other factors in play of which you’re not aware.
But let’s hypothesize that DVC will not want a large pricing disparity between Riviera and VGF. They’ll just raise the price of Riviera closer to what they’ll ask for VGF, forecasting that the additional interest in VGF will heighten demand for Riviera. I would think that they’re far more likely to raise prices than lower VGF pricing to what at the time will be three year old Riviera panic pandemic point cost.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Nah there is no reason to. Once the new resort goes on sale prices on resale will go down. Either because direct will be less money or because Disney will stop ROFR and demand will shift to direct when its that close. As long as you are fine waiting the next 6-9 months.

I don’t think resale prices will go down. Even at a 225 direct point cost the savings at current prices will be substantial enough.

 

[Nabas]

That's what I'm hoping for, that the original smaller studios are a little cheaper. If that were the case I would buy at VGF. I don't mind having to fight for a cheaper studio and having to settle on a larger one if I don't land the cheaper one.

If I were a VGF1 owner, I would be very unhappy if VGF1 Studios were fewer points per night than VGF2 Studios.

“I bought X number of points assuming I was going to be able to book Y number of nights in a Studio.”

All experienced DVC members know that the cheapest rooms go first. Those new VGF2 members are going to chase after the cheaper VGF1 Studios, making it much harder for the happy VGF1 member to book the VGF1 Studio they have been booking year after year.

It’s almost as if BWV opened with only (cheap) Standard View Studios, and then 8 years later Disney created a bunch of Preferred View Studios and sold millions of points to new members. This is not the same as rebalancing points at an existing DVC.

 

[Robert Stoddart]

All experienced DVC members know that the cheapest rooms go first. Those new VGF2 members are going to chase after the cheaper VGF1 Studios, making it much harder for the happy VGF1 member to book the VGF1 Studio they have been booking year after year.

Agree with this - typically book cheapest studio at 11 months so we have a spot to stay until we trade out. As a VGF owner, not much is more expensive mind you. Those standard view studios go very fast.

 

[CSLucas]

If I were a VGF1 owner, I would be very unhappy if VGF1 Studios were fewer points per night than VGF2 Studios.

I bought X number of points assuming I was going to be able to book Y number of nights in a Studio.

All experienced DVC members know that the cheapest rooms go first. Those new VGF2 members are going to chase after the cheaper VGF1 Studios, making it much harder for the happy VGF1 member to book the VGF1 Studio they have been booking year after year.

It’s almost as if BWV opened with only (cheap) Standard View Studios, and then 8 years later Disney created a bunch of Preferred View Studios and sold millions of points to new members.

I think (as with everything involving this number of people) there will be owners for whom this is a huge positive, and also owners who are going to be unhappy. We own at VGF, and we would personally be happy to see some slightly larger studios with higher point requirements. We prefer 1 bedrooms, but would absolutely stay in a studio if it were just a bit bigger and cost less than the 1 bd.
I agree that owners who always want to stay in studios probably won't be happy about the increased competition for the cheapest studios if this is the route that Disney takes, but there will never be a solution that makes everyone happy (even the status quo annoys people since they complain about a lack of studios), so as long as no major damage is being done then I think you just have to roll with it as an owner. I think it is also possible that I will end up in the category of annoyed people if 1 bedrooms end up being harder to book, but if that happens then there will be a whole bunch of members happy with the new studio availability.
I get how it can be frustrating since guides basically sell points based on "this is how many you need to get this type of room", but I also think owners need to be realistic and remember that 40 years is a long time and just as their personal needs will shift, the needs of the membership at large will also shift and those two things might not always be aligned.

 

[Sandisw]

Not sure if this has been discussed...
Grand Floridian rooms are 440sf.
Grand Floridian Deluxe studios are 374sq.

Likely, these new studios will be significantly bigger than the "original" GF deluxe studios.

They will have to play with the point chart to make this work. Potentially, introduce new room categories -- hard to imagine that a 440sf studio would cost the same points as a 374sf studio.

Unless part of the strategy is to keep them the same to encourage booking in the new studios and thus helping with the booking of the 2 bedroom lock offs?

 

[Matty B13]

I think (as with everything involving this number of people) there will be owners for whom this is a huge positive, and also owners who are going to be unhappy. We own at VGF, and we would personally be happy to see some slightly larger studios with higher point requirements. We prefer 1 bedrooms, but would absolutely stay in a studio if it were just a bit bigger and cost less than the 1 bd.
I agree that owners who always want to stay in studios probably won't be happy about the increased competition for the cheapest studios if this is the route that Disney takes, but there will never be a solution that makes everyone happy (even the status quo annoys people since they complain about a lack of studios), so as long as no major damage is being done then I think you just have to roll with it as an owner. I think it is also possible that I will end up in the category of annoyed people if 1 bedrooms end up being harder to book, but if that happens then there will be a whole bunch of members happy with the new studio availability.
I get how it can be frustrating since guides basically sell points based on "this is how many you need to get this type of room", but I also think owners need to be realistic and remember that 40 years is a long time and just as their personal needs will shift, the needs of the membership at large will also shift and those two things might not always be aligned.

Only problem with this is the VGF 1.0 members bought a contract that they thought couldn't be changed.... and now with a little DVC pixie dust added VGF 2.0 and about double the size of the resort and changed these contracts for all owners. I guess contracts are only as good as the company that sells them.

 

[RoseGold]

I think we all agree that a converted building full of studios is better than building some GF bungalows or something, though I guess there's still time for that...

 

[Robert Stoddart]

I think we all agree that a converted building full of studios is better than building some GF bungalows or something, though I guess there's still time for that...

Let's hope not...

 

[CSLucas]

Only problem with this is the VGF 1.0 members bought a contract that they thought couldn't be changed.... and now with a little DVC pixie dust added VGF 2.0 and about double the size of the resort and changed these contracts for all owners. I guess contracts are only as good as the company that sells them.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I see your point, but to me the contract isn't changing. It has always been in the contract that they have the right to expand resorts as they see fit. As long as they don't make the new rooms unbookable with some crazy points chart category (and really, why would they? It would never sell), then they aren't changing anyone's contract. Sure, there might be more members out there with contracts sized for getting studios, but I would argue that is an organic process that is happening anyways.

 

[Sandisw]

I guess what I am getting at is that if they reallocated points back to the existing units, then my percentage ownership of that unit WOULD change as it would encompass more points (i.e., that unit would now be "worth" more) and thus a higher percentage of the overall condo association.

Maybe my post is confusing. If your unit has 1000 points it can never have more than 1000 points.

However, since units can be made up idifferent rooms, they have the ability to adjust across the resort, but the unit still has to remain neutral.

For example, making up numbers for ease...say that 1000 point unit has one studio for 200 points and one 2 bedroom for 800. If the studios got raised to say 400...then the 2 bedroom can only be assigned 600.

But, it’s more complicated since it has to balance resort wide too.

Again, this is how it was explained to me so I do think anything that happens with it all being will make it much harder to move points across actual room

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I doubt your math is capable of accurately forecasting DVC’s exact pricing and sales strategy. I’m sure there are other factors in play of which you’re not aware.
But let’s hypothesize that DVC will not want a large pricing disparity between Riviera and VGF. They’ll just raise the price of Riviera closer to what they’ll ask for VGF, forecasting that the additional interest in VGF will heighten demand for Riviera. I would think that they’re far more likely to raise prices than lower VGF pricing to what at the time will be three year old Riviera panic pandemic point cost.

It's the history though. They price the current resorts the same and might adjust into slightly different discounts thru out it's time in current sales. When things first go on sale it might initially be lower than you'll see again. Back in the BLT days it happened that the initial pricing was rarely the lowest but it easily could have been the economic factors of the time that caused that. If it doesn't settle into the same base price as Riviera within a couple of months it will be a deviation from history.

I think we all agree that a converted building full of studios is better than building some GF bungalows or something, though I guess there's still time for that...

So true.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I see your point, but to me the contract isn't changing. It has always been in the contract that they have the right to expand resorts as they see fit. As long as they don't make the new rooms unbookable with some crazy points chart category (and really, why would they? It would never sell), then they aren't changing anyone's contract. Sure, there might be more members out there with contracts sized for getting studios, but I would argue that is an organic process that is happening anyways.

Expansions and contractions have been something almost right from the start with DVC.

 

[havoc315]

Unless part of the strategy is to keep them the same to encourage booking in the new studios and thus helping with the booking of the 2 bedroom lock offs?

Interesting possibility.

Honestly.... I'm hearing that this announcement was rushed and caught people off guard. Not sure if they really considered all of the ramifications (room size differences, resale restrictions, etc)

 

[tidefan]

Maybe my post is confusing. If your unit has 1000 points it can never have more than 1000 points.

However, since units can be made up idifferent rooms, they have the ability to adjust across the resort, but the unit still has to remain neutral.

For example, making up numbers for ease...say that 1000 point unit has one studio for 200 points and one 2 bedroom for 800. If the studios got raised to say 400...then the 2 bedroom can only be assigned 600.

But, it’s more complicated since it has to balance resort wide too.

Again, this is how it was explained to me so I do think anything that happens with it all being will make it much harder to move points across actual room sizes.

Sandi, I think that this is where people are questioning the SSR addition because they increased the Treehouses, which were definitely the only "units" added into the subsequent selling.

 

[DonMacGregor]

As a guy with no dog in this fight, and as a rookie to DVC, this is quite fascinating and educational to watch. On the other hand, as a General Contractor with licenses in 4 states and over 40 years of experience in construction (and a fair amount in hospitality construction), I'm struggling to see how they flip 200 units before summer of 2022. Sure, repainting, adding additional or new casework, new wall and floor finishes, built-ins like murphy beds, and doing a renovation to existing bathrooms is maybe doable, especially if they phase the work such that some number (but not all) of the units are online by mid 2022.

The fly in the oitment is adding conveniences to the ground floor units. For upper units, supply and waste plumbing for new sinks, washer/dryer units, etc. is relatively simple by accessing through the lower level ceiling, but the first floor units are sitting on a concrete slab on grade. Most likely, since it's Central Florida, a structurally thickened and post-tensioned slab on grade. That slab will cause a significant amount of work to cut/core to run waste lines through it. Even if you put a kitchenette back-to-back with an existing bathroom (which would likely have to stay put based on wet walls containing sewer stacks that run down through the slab), you're still cutting into the concrete and running some distance horizontally to pick up the existing lines. Yes, you can run water supply from above, but last time I checked, waste lines need gravity and always go down.

Does anyone know if theres some hard cut-off date for existing reservations in that building?

Again, certainly doable, but 13 months doable? Maybe some number of units. Maybe.

 

[RoseGold]

On the other hand, as a General Contractor with licenses in 4 states and over 40 years of experience in construction (and a fair amount in hospitality construction), I'm struggling to see how they flip 200 units before summer of 2022. Sure, repainting, adding additional or new casework, new wall and floor finishes, built-ins like murphy beds, and doing a renovation to existing bathrooms is maybe doable, especially if they phase the work such that some number (but not all) of the units are online by mid 2022.

Disney just scrapped a 900 room hotel plan. I'm pretty sure they have a couple guys. There's no way they are replumbing. Whatever is there will do. I expect a minifridge and a microwave.

I don't expect this to be Disney's best work. I expect it to be a cash grab on an aging building that needed refurb anyway.

 

[Robert Stoddart]

Again, certainly doable, but 13 months doable? Maybe some number of units. Maybe.

I'd have to believe they will do it in stages, even taking the longest possible time from starting in spring to opening in summer it is a very aggressive timeframe. Maybe they did a bunch of work to the rooms for the NBA as I believe that is one of the buildings the players used.

 

[CastAStone]

As a guy with no dog in this fight, and as a rookie to DVC, this is quite fascinating and educational to watch. On the other hand, as a General Contractor with licenses in 4 states and over 40 years of experience in construction (and a fair amount in hospitality construction), I'm struggling to see how they flip 200 units before summer of 2022. Sure, repainting, adding additional or new casework, new wall and floor finishes, built-ins like murphy beds, and doing a renovation to existing bathrooms is maybe doable, especially if they phase the work such that some number (but not all) of the units are online by mid 2022.

The fly in the oitment is adding conveniences to the ground floor units. For upper units, supply and waste plumbing for new sinks, washer/dryer units, etc. is relatively simple by accessing through the lower level ceiling, but the first floor units are sitting on a concrete slab on grade. Most likely, since it's Central Florida, a structurally thickened and post-tensioned slab on grade. That slab will cause a significant amount of work to cut/core to run waste lines through it. Even if you put a kitchenette back-to-back with an existing bathroom (which would likely have to stay put based on wet walls containing sewer stacks that run down through the slab), you're still cutting into the concrete and running some distance horizontally to pick up the existing lines. Yes, you can run water supply from above, but last time I checked, waste lines need gravity and always go down.

Does anyone know if theres some hard cut-off date for existing reservations in that building?

Again, certainly doable, but 13 months doable? Maybe some number of units. Maybe.

As I said upthread, they’ve been doing the SSR building which are about 75% the size in 75 days per building and the All Star buildings which have 192 rooms per building in 80 days per building and both are complete to the studs gut jobs.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

The first refurbishment they ever did at VWL was done in a month. And no, it was not pretty.
6 months is forever in comparison.