NEW VGF Building

[Grumpy Mouse]

Amen! This multiple tiering is a problem.

In fact, when I think about it some more, it is highly likely this is the direction they're heading.

Under the new, more cost-efficient, DVC expansion model, 'original 14 resale' owners (after Jan 2019) won't be able to book at new resort expansions (unless your resale is at the expanded resort of course), even if they're part of the original 14 resorts. Why? To incentivize direct sales, of course. Allowing current o14 resale owners to continue to book these expansions would essentially keep resale just as valuable as direct purchase.

If Disney is not going to do NEW resorts for the foreseeable future, they have to create separation between direct purchase and resale purchase.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Correct. But that doesn't seem to stop people from speculating here there there will be restrictions.

I would be a lot more skeptical if they hadn't already announced that the expansion will be part of the same association. Now, that could change between now and the time they start selling these new studios...

ETA: I'm interested to see if the Riviera restrictions are eventually overturned due to legal challenges. I'm not sure that the "firewall" of just calling it DVC II and not joining the group to trade is necessarily solid ground. Then again, I'm not a lawyer (don't even play one on TV). We shall see.

 

[MomOTwins]

Okay, made it through all 16 pages. Phew!

As a new owner, I LOVE that I may now have a chance to book a VGF studio at 7 months. Hopefully. It's a fantastic resort but we were priced out of buying it directly.

I would expect that price is going to be considerably higher than RIV. As was pointed out, they are going to do something so that they don't cannibalize RIV direct sales with no corresponding gain. Plus, the fact they can and have been selling at $255 means they can still probably get away with sell close to that. I know they haven't sold a lot monthly at that price, but that seems more due to inventory reasons than due to lack of demand--they probably would have been selling a lot more each month at $255 if they had more inventory to sell, but current owners like their VGF contracts and aren't selling them back at resale (and thus, ROFR back to DVC) too often.

If I were a buyer though... no thank you. If I want a monorail resort studio, I'd buy Poly resale for less. Contract is about the same duration, dues are about the same, and who doesn't love the Poly?

In fact, when I think about it some more, it is highly likely this is the direction they're heading.

Under the new, more cost-efficient, DVC expansion model, 'original 14 resale' owners (after Jan 2019) won't be able to book at new resort expansions (unless your resale is at the expanded resort of course), even if they're part of the original 14 resorts. Why? To incentivize direct sales, of course. Allowing current o14 resale owners to continue to book these expansions would essentially keep resale just as valuable as direct purchase.

If Disney is not going to do NEW resorts for the foreseeable future, they have to create separation between direct purchase and resale purchase.

I was going to post pretty much exactly this and you beat me too it. I think they will find a way under the contracts to stop resale buyers from booking here. If they don't, they'd be shoveling people toward resale because it lets them stay at the awesome new studios at VGF at the price of an SSR contract--it's a perfect consolation prize for new resale buyers who are disappointed they can't book Riviera. Their best tactic right now for pushing people to direct vs resale is "well, if you don't buy direct, you'll be stuck and won't be able to play with any of the shiny new toys." If there's anything I (sort of) learned from (trying to understand) the thread on the 2022 point charts, it's that someone at Disney is drilling down on the minutiae of DVC agreements to find and exploit loopholes, even if they are a bit questionable. Until someone tells me there is no possible way that these new rooms could be part of the existing condo association and yet be off limits to resale buyers, I am inclined to think Disney will find a way.

 

[Nabas]

IIRC, there's already a mini-fridge under the TV in the resort rooms. That being the case, I wouldn't be shocked if they just add a little table with a microwave on it (drawer with utensils and a cabinet underneath for plates, cups, etc.).

ETA: This would also account for the short timeline required.

If all they were going to do was "add a little table with a microwave on it", they would be done in a week.

All 847 Poly rooms are being completely refurbished in (I think) less than a year. I peeked inside one of the windows. It looked like those rooms were being completely gutted.

So the question is, what can Disney do with 200 rooms in 3-6 months?

 

[Grumpy Mouse]

Okay, made it through all 16 pages. Phew!

As a new owner, I LOVE that I may now have a chance to book a VGF studio at 7 months. Hopefully. It's a fantastic resort but we were priced out of buying it directly.

I would expect that price is going to be considerably higher than RIV. As was pointed out, they are going to do something so that they don't cannibalize RIV direct sales with no corresponding gain. Plus, the fact they can and have been selling at $255 means they can still probably get away with sell close to that. I know they haven't sold a lot monthly at that price, but that seems more due to inventory reasons than due to lack of demand--they probably would have been selling a lot more each month at $255 if they had more inventory to sell, but current owners like their VGF contracts and aren't selling them back at resale (and thus, ROFR back to DVC) too often.

If I were a buyer though... no thank you. If I want a monorail resort studio, I'd buy Poly resale for less. Contract is about the same duration, dues are about the same, and who doesn't love the Poly?


I was going to post pretty much exactly this and you beat me too it. I think they will find a way under the contracts to stop resale buyers from booking here. If they don't, they'd be shoveling people toward resale because it lets them stay at the awesome new studios at VGF at the price of an SSR contract--it's a perfect consolation prize for new resale buyers who are disappointed they can't book Riviera. Their best tactic right now for pushing people to direct vs resale is "well, if you don't buy direct, you'll be stuck and won't be able to play with any of the shiny new toys." If there's anything I (sort of) learned from (trying to understand) the thread on the 2022 point charts, it's that someone at Disney is drilling down on the minutiae of DVC agreements to find and exploit loopholes, even if they are a bit questionable. Until someone tells me there is no possible way that these new rooms could be part of the existing condo association and yet be off limits to resale buyers, I am inclined to think Disney will find a way.

It's how the guide sold me on RIV direct. We were considering BLT resale, and she said, that'll be nice - but you won't be staying at Riviera. And even more, when we finish Reflections, you won't be staying there either....

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

If all they were going to do was "add a little table with a microwave on it", they would be done in a week.

They also have to stock the drawer with utensils.

 

[Bjaiken77]

Do we really need so many trees when we can just tear them out and put up more DVC villas?

 

[DebbieB]

I am wondering when the expansion rooms would be available to book - 11 months out for current VGF owners would be sometime this summer?

New construction typically isn’t 11 months before opening. It may be much shorter with owners getting maybe a month advantage.

 

[ckb_nc]

Wonder what the availability will look like; Poly studios have been surprisingly available. But as a family of 5 with 3 adult grown children studios are not high on the list unless it's just the two of us. But wow did we love GF one bedroom when we stayed. Like shocked how much we loved it versus Boardwalk. So for a couples trip this has me very interested.

 

[Bjaiken77]

How about the MK Castle? It practically is a home already. Can’t we somehow convert that to DVC?

 

[ckb_nc]

I hear there's an empty lot out by Wilderness Lodge/Fort Wilderness.

Too soon?

The number crunching at DVC must just be amazing. Now that they have a model of converting resort rooms to DVC studios versus building new from the ground up. Technically I count this the fourth deluxe to get DVC rooms (Wilderness Lodge, Poly, AKL). Wonder if this is the last? Yacht Club becomes technically the only Deluxe without DVC.

 

[MomOTwins]

It's how the guide sold me on RIV direct. We were considering BLT resale, and she said, that'll be nice - but you won't be staying at Riviera. And even more, when we finish Reflections, you won't be staying there either....

It's definitely what sold me too. We love Riviera and just couldn't give it up.

One more thought, having just read the DVC fan article arguing they couldn't impose resale restrictions on the new expansion because it negatively impacts current owners buy hurting their contract's resale value. I don't buy how that is any different from what they've already done with Riv and resale.

When a current owner bought their VGF contract, they had access to the other resorts in the O14 at 7 months, and access to a single building at VGF at 11 months. After Riviera came into being, current VGF owners also got the added privilege of potentially booking at RIV at 7 months in addition to the O14, but that was NOT a privilege they could pass on via resale,. This is just the same: when the new VGF expansion occurs, current VGF will get an added privilege of booking there at 11 months, but just like Riviera, that privilege will not be transferrable upon resale. In other words, a resale buyer of an existing VGF contract is still just getting exactly the privileges the current owner had when they first bought their contract--nothing more, nothing less.

Admittedly, not an expert on DVC yet, but seems like that is a plausible argument DVC could make.

How about the MK Castle? It practically is a home already. Can’t we somehow convert that to DVC?

Well it DOES already have a hotel suite built in for special guests. Shudder to think what the point chart would be though!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Agree unless the convention business just craters

I just received an email about booking a fall conference (not Disney - it was scheduled elsewhere). If our group is any indication I'd have to say conventions will be back.

 

[Bjaiken77]

It’s just the optics of it all. Last 3 on sales:

CCV - no restrictions
RIV- restrictions
VGF2 - no restrictions

DLT - restrictions?

It just starts to become illogical.

 

[sethschroeder]

So many are overthinking this. With COVID Disney is need of some large cash influxes. As the math above shows they will make close to $ 300million on a nice safe new DVC, a proven winner. There is no trick about resale restrictions, this is just, for a lack of a better phrase, a money grab.

Unless they start selling this soon I am not so sure. I think I brought it up on here but I could see it being cheaper if they are selling this by August and trying to stuff revenue in to this fiscal year to make the books look better.

 

[CSLucas]

Won't it, though? If I currently own points there, and the rules change, doesn't that affect the resale value of the contract? Disney retains control of the entire system because they act in the best interest of the membership. If they do something to call that into question, they don't just risk some bad press or a small financial penalty; they risk losing control of the condo association. I don't see them willingly taking on that risk.

No- your points wouldn't be affected at all. The restrictions would be on new real estate interests sold- yours is an existing interest so you would operate on the same rules you do right now (resale is good for everything except RIV and new future resorts). If anything it drives your resale up as you would be selling O14 points.

 

[emmymac17]

Am i crazy for wanting a small contract (50-75 pts) for a few nights in a studio every other year? We own direct at Riviera for our main family vacations, but I love the holidays at Disney and would love to just have a long weekend in December at GF every once in a while...that's the dream right

 

[OKW Lover]

Do we really need so many trees when we can just tear them out and put up more DVC villas?

I know this was intended to be humorous but the fact is that WDW can't just do that. Under land development agreements they need to have X amount of undeveloped space. Over the years Disney occasionally acquires more land, some of it remote from the main property, to satisfy the requirement.

 

[CastAStone]

It’s just the optics of it all. Last 3 on sales:

CCV - no restrictions
RIV- restrictions
VGF2 - no restrictions

DLT - restrictions?

It just starts to become illogical.

But it’s not VGF2. It’s VGF1.1

 

[sethschroeder]

Correct. But that doesn't seem to stop people from speculating here there there will be restrictions.

Eh Disney also thinks they can just add up point charts and not offset the point increase. So I am not sure they won't try something to limit the new point sales at this expansion.

Also couldn't they just put an addendum stating upon selling the contract it can only be used at VGF?

If all they were going to do was "add a little table with a microwave on it", they would be done in a week.

Well I could also level the buildings at Epcot in a week but Disney has now taken how many months? lol

I don't think how long it takes to be indicative of quality of changes.