New Twist on the Guy Jumping From Carnival Cruise Ship

[basas]

A cruise and going out to dinner are quite different.

I think the majority of us who think it's a bad idea for a man to be alone with a teen like that are mostly talking about the cruise aspect of it.

And guess what -- looks like in this case, there was cause for concern! Maybe not pedophilia, but definitely something off.

But are babysitting and movies different from dinner?

 

[KikiFan]

Actually I would. I think it unwise in this day and age for anyone not related to a child to be alone with them in any circumstance. I don't let my DH take our neices/nephews to the movies alone.

It makes me really sad, that we've come to the point where people feel they have to behave this way. It doesn't even make sense, statistically, most children are molested by a relative.

I was only 7 when my older sister got married. My father had left the year before and my BiL was the closest thing to a father figure that I had. He took me places all the time, showed up at school plays, when no one else in my family could, and even taught me to drive. I'm very glad my mother never felt she had to "protect" me from my BiL.

 

[bicker]

And guess what -- looks like in this case, there was cause for concern! Maybe not pedophilia, but definitely something off.

But don't you see the difference? Pedophilia versus ... what? ... depression, alcoholism, etc. The former, no matter what anyone says, is a "condemnation", while the latter are diagnoses.

Regardless, information that comes in after-the-fact doesn't legitimize the jumping to conclusions that I and others committed earlier in this thread.

 

[MushyMushy]

Wow, that's rather harsh. So you would put your children at risk, as well put yourself at risk of false accusations?

Lemme tell you another story: My DH had 2 high-school aged interns through a work study program a few years ago- both female. He was careful to make sure he was never alone with them, either in the office or on a job site. Another guy wasn't so careful. One of the girls stopped showing up, so she was reported back to the program. Guess which guy got arrested when she got kicked out? Her story was she was scared to go back after he forced himself on her.

I know this guy personally, I know he never did anything. But he ended up getting arrested and almost losing his job and wife over this, until the girl finally owned up, weeks later.

I've posted about this before, but a similar thing happened to my DH at work. He used to have to make hiring/firing decisions, and he had to let a temporary worker go because she just wasn't working out -- couldn't get the job down. An hour after he fired her, she was accusing him of sexual harassment. Thankfully he had a long and solid paper trail on her, but he got suspended for a week without pay while they investigated. It really destroyed his faith in women (mine too, for that matter!). As a result, he'll never put himself in a position of being alone with a female coworker again, AND he'd be even more careful about being alone with a young girl -- niece, younger sister, DS's friends, etc.

I know the guys in this thread see the unfairness in all the speculation happening in this very thread. I'm wondering how you would feel to have it actually happen to you.

But don't you see the difference? Pedophilia versus ... what? ... depression, alcoholism, etc. The former, no matter what anyone says, is a "condemnation", while the latter are diagnoses.

Regardless, information that comes in after-the-fact doesn't legitimize the jumping to conclusions that I and others committed earlier in this thread.

Which is again my point. If you put yourself in a vulnerable position like that (being alone with a kid or woman), you're setting yourself up for all kinds of suspicion. It's not right by any means, but there it is.

 

[bicker]

I know the guys in this thread see the unfairness in all the speculation happening in this very thread. I'm wondering how you would feel to have it actually happen to you.

Condemning strangers based on innuendo rather than evidence doesn't help the alleged victim one iota, so I'd have to say that I would expect most everyone wouldn't feel any different regardless.

Which is again my point. If you put yourself in a vulnerable position like that (being alone with a kid or woman), you're setting yourself up for all kinds of suspicion. It's not right by any means, but there it is.

Indeed. And so society, and everyone in it, must adjust the expectations they place on men, because now men have to protect themselves from the presumption of guilt that now prevails in our society.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Indeed. And so society, and everyone in it, must adjust the expectations they place on men, because now men have to protect themselves from the presumption of guilt that now prevails in our society.

That is correct.

So why don't we solve it by actually putting the sick molesters to DEATH and ridding our society of them.
We let them back out to repeat their crimes on children.

 

[bicker]

That won't affect the presumption of guilt that the rest of mankind is subjected to.

 

[MushyMushy]

Condemning strangers based on innuendo rather than evidence doesn't help the alleged victim one iota, so I'd have to say that I would expect most everyone wouldn't feel any different regardless.

Indeed. And so society, and everyone in it, must adjust the expectations they place on men, because now men have to protect themselves from the presumption of guilt that now prevails in our society.

It seems as if we, as a society, have gone from one end of the spectrum to another. It used to be that victims of sexual abuse were not believed or even put in a position of being at fault. Now we've gone towards believing every accusation with very little proof needed. Can't there be a good balance?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

That won't affect the presumption of guilt that the rest of mankind is subjected to.

I disagree.

 

[2BigKIdz]

That is really too bad. I don't follow or agree with your reasoning. I took my nephew every where before I had kids including 3 trips to Disney, the shore and other places that involved staying overnight and guess what I was 20 yrs older and no one though anything of it. They were some of the best trips! My BIL takes the kids to a movie by himself. When my Mom was hospitalized my nephew now grown up was my best baby sitter for my son and he is 20 yrs older and if he asks to take him on a cruise or vacation you know my answer is going to be yes when do you want him packed.

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty. I thought lynch mobs had been outlawed.

I agree with you completely. Wow that is really sad that you can't trust a family member to take nieces/nephews places alone! If I couldn't trust my husband to take his nieces/nephews places I would divorce him in a heartbeat.

My husband and I do not have children yet, we take our nieces and nephews with us just about everywhere, including trips to FL. Heck our oldest nephew, now 23, practically lived with us from 12 on. They are my husband's sisters children and the parents trust us implicitly with their kids. My one bil is a ridiculously over-protective parent and he doesn't blink an eye when we have his children. I take pride in the fact that we are a great aunt and uncle to these children!

We also have friends that are just like family and we take their kids places too. We think of my best friends son as a nephew. My husband took him to see the Harlem Globetrotters on Friday night, alone. Some of you on here would be ready to lynch my husband for doing something nice for this boy just because he is not his father I am deeply saddened by this.

My husband plays paintball and most of the people that play are teens. We have one kid that calls us aunt/uncle, some of the other players he calls them brother, and their wives he calls his sister and the one guy that does the most for him he calls dad. This boy has no guidance at home whatsoever. If it wasn't for us and the other players that have "adopted" him, it is really hard to say what kind of trouble he would get into.

I know there are bad people in the world, but to assume that there is something illicit or illegal or downright disgusting between all adults that interact with children that are not their own is really judgmental and ignorant.

 

[phillybeth]

OK, first of all, I in NO WAY think/suspect my DH is a pedophile. Let's get that clear. If I did, he would be my ex-H in a heartbeat.



And it's not that he can't/won't spend time with any of the kids in the family- quite to the contrary. It's either that there are more than 1 kid with him (we have 10 nieces/nephews), or I go if there is only 1. Too many people close to us (not just men) have been falsly accused and it's not a risk either of us are willing to take.

About half the kids come from 'broken families', so there is no way I am giving my ex- SIL and/or ex-BIL leverage to get full custody of the kids by claming anything. Because that happens too- kids will say what they think their parent wants to hear, including that Uncle Phillybeth touched them or hurt them.

I've seem too many lives ruined, on both sides- kids and adults. I've seen 6 month olds raped and beaten, I've seen 10 YOs pregnant by family members.
And I've seen grown men and women isolated and estranged, treated like scum, because a kid got mad at them, or thought it would be funny. I've also seen kids who are actually being abused blame someone other than the actual abuser because they're scared, or been threatened.

 

[ilovejack02]

OK, first of all, I in NO WAY think/suspect my DH is a pedophile. Let's get that clear. If I did, he would be my ex-H in a heartbeat.



And it's not that he can't/won't spend time with any of the kids in the family- quite to the contrary. It's either that there are more than 1 kid with him (we have 10 nieces/nephews), or I go if there is only 1. Too many people close to us (not just men) have been falsly accused and it's not a risk either of us are willing to take.

About half the kids come from 'broken families', so there is no way I am giving my ex- SIL and/or ex-BIL leverage to get full custody of the kids by claming anything. Because that happens too- kids will say what they think their parent wants to hear, including that Uncle Phillybeth touched them or hurt them.

I've seem too many lives ruined, on both sides- kids and adults. I've seen 6 month olds raped and beaten, I've seen 10 YOs pregnant by family members.
And I've seen grown men and women isolated and estranged, treated like scum, because a kid got mad at them, or thought it would be funny. I've also seen kids who are actually being abused blame someone other than the actual abuser because they're scared, or been threatened.

Good Lord what kind of job to you have?
I get the whole not be alone with nieces and nephews thing if the ex in laws have a habit of being vindictive. Its a shame that the possibility of someone spreading a lie can make us change the way we live.

 

[phillybeth]

Good Lord what kind of job to you have?
I get the whole not be alone with nieces and nephews thing if the ex in laws have a habit of being vindictive. Its a shame that the possibility of someone spreading a lie can make us change the way we live.

I'm a Forensic Scientist. It's a rough job, we see a lot of nasty stuff- and I just can't bury my head in the sand and pretend like none of it exists outside of work. I can't be that innocent anymore.

 

[ilovejack02]

I'm a Forensic Scientist. It's a rough job, we see a lot of nasty stuff- and I just can't bury my head in the sand and pretend like none of it exists outside of work. I can't be that innocent anymore.

AHHH, I know it affects my cousin and the way she lives. She is a Federal Marshall and is suspicious of everyone and everything. I on the other hand knowt that the world is not a real safe world, do what i can to keep my family safe but I can not and will not live like her. It would drive me insane to think that everyone is out to get you. I guess it just comes with the job.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Wow, that's rather harsh. So you would put your children at risk, as well put yourself at risk of false accusations?

I do. I can't even imagine all the things I would not have done if I sat down first and tried to figure out all the ways that someone who is warped might twist them into something ugly.

I couldn't care less what anybody thinks about what I do. I'm taking my Godson to WDW. It will be fun for both of us. And if the whole country wanted to sit around tsk-tsking, that would be fine. They can sit and fret over non-existant problems and I can sleep well at night knowing I did absolutely nothing wrong.

I guess it just comes down to how much you worry about what other people think...or what they may or may not say/do.

I have more fun not caring about other's opinions, especially when their opinions have no basis in fact.

 

[RitaZ.]

Regardless, information that comes in after-the-fact doesn't legitimize the jumping to conclusions

Sure it does. It proves that your instincts were right all along. You can call it jumping to conclusions, I wouldn't.

Bicker, how many children do you have? Just curious.

 

[MushyMushy]

I do. I can't even imagine all the things I would not have done if I sat down first and tried to figure out all the ways that someone who is warped might twist them into something ugly.

I couldn't care less what anybody thinks about what I do. I'm taking my Godson to WDW. It will be fun for both of us. And if the whole country wanted to sit around tsk-tsking, that would be fine. They can sit and fret over non-existant problems and I can sleep well at night knowing I did absolutely nothing wrong.

I guess it just comes down to how much you worry about what other people think...or what they may or may not say/do.

I have more fun not caring about other's opinions, especially when their opinions have no basis in fact.

Being a woman, you don't have nearly the same worries a man does in that regard. People aren't typically going to assume the same things.

 

[Planogirl]

Sure it does. It proves that your instincts were right all along. You can call it jumping to conclusions, I wouldn't.

Bicker, how many children do you have? Just curious.

That seems like an odd question. Not saying you shouldn't ask but wondering how it applies?

I see some saying that adults shouldn't take kids somewhere because something bad "could" happen or someone could be accused at the very least. That can happen all throughout life but I don't believe that we can stop living.

Our son has gone places with aunts, uncles, friends and so on. He spent a few weeks last summer with a couple we know and I wouldn't hesitate to let him go again. He is a teen and certainly knows when things are wrong. I believe that he would tell me if he felt uncomfortable. I feel like his experiences are worth the miniscule risk that anything could ever happen. Besides I trust the couple more than most family members.

I wonder though. Molestation is sometimes done by parents. How would you ever avoid that?

 

[Art Vandalay]

Sure it does. It proves that your instincts were right all along. You can call it jumping to conclusions, I wouldn't.

If this were applied to any other group other than men, there would be a huge outcry and you'd be labelled prejudiced, intolerant or any number of far worse things that I won't go into. If you can honestly look in the mirror and feel right about this sort of judgment, there's really nothing to say other than I'm disgusted.

 

[RitaZ.]

If this were applied to any other group other than men, there would be a huge outcry and you'd be labelled prejudiced, intolerant or any number of far worse things that I won't go into. If you can honestly look in the mirror and feel right about this sort of judgment, there's really nothing to say other than I'm disgusted.

You know, there was another poster that mentioned that she/he thought that there was more than one subject being discussed in this thread. I think that poster is right.

Since you've quoted my reply, I'll answer. I think you either have me confused with some other poster or you've taken one of my replies out of context. Where did I ever say that all men should be perceived as evil?

If you read my posts, you'll notice that I said I treat each man as an individual, not as a group. I'm quite at peace with myself knowing that I don't hate men. Never have, never will. One of the reasons for that is because I've had and have strong male role models throughout my life. The personal relationships that I've had/have with men have all been positive.

I have no control over how you choose to interpret my posts. If you choose to feel disgusted, it's your choice. You're 100% wrong in how you think I view men as a whole or group.