New rumor?

bicker said:
If I have anything interesting to say about the business of feature animation, I'll contribute it. However, since my expertise is in operations management, and with regard to travel and hospitality, and I'm not an industry expert in the business of feature animation, it is rather unlikely that I'll put my perspective forward. I'll leave that to the professional producers and artists in our midst (or their management consultants ;)). If I were to contribute something in that realm, I'd probably say something like, "I wish they made movies more like xxx." "I wish they would..." versus "They should..." See the difference? Keep in mind, I'm here on the DIS to enjoy myself discussing Disney theme parks and help others enjoy their own Disney theme park vacations -- not to engage in discussions that I have no interest in. By the same token, I wouldn't agree with someone who asserts that folks shouldn't come into a thread that was about theme parks, specifically about a new water attraction in Epcot, and hijack the thread to start a discussion about feature animation. This is a public board, and these threads do tend to drift and there are often multiple discussions that stem from a single original message. That's one of the charms of this place. So please continue discussing feature animation along with our discussion of the theme parks, but please understand that I'll be skipping over those parts, just like I skip over the sports pages in the newspaper.
As Kidds already pointed out, you can't legitimately discuss the Disney theme parks without dealing with the role of Feature Animation (and Imagineering, which you chose to ignore in Kidds' post).

Yup! However, I've found that quite often people aren't disagreeing with me as much as expressing outrage that the system works the way I'm describing. Keep in mind that most of everything I've said with regard to business I wish it didn't work that way. This goes back to operating in the real world, rather than in the world of our own fabrication.
Please stop with the dismissiveness. Your observations are not any more "real world" than those of Mr. Kidds, or Mr. Voice, et. al.
 
I understand you want me to get into a discussion of feature animation. Sorry, but I won't comply. I just have no interest in that. You're, of course, welcome to evaluate how much you agree with my evaluations of theme park management based on any criteria you like.

I'm sorry that you see my latter statement as dismissiveness. It isn't. I'll ask you to defer to my judgement, if not on the business of theme parks, at least on my own personal intent. Thanks.
 
If Microsoft just let the competion eat away at it's marketshare unmolested...... Well, they sure would have paid less in lawyer fees. Bill Gate's wouldn't be the richest man in the world, and Ballmer wouldn't own a slew of sports teams, but these are minor points. :teeth:

bicker, you've done a good job of sounding like a managment consultant. I guess that's a good thing, but what you've failed to do is establish why abandoning Disney's Core R&D and design philosophys is a positive step for the company. To go back, Intel and AMD don't ever just stop making chips R&D NEVER Stops.Of course, if you ask me, one of Disney's biggest recent flaws with the themeparks is that they've been treating them as if they were nothing more then a glorified Hilton rather then the truely unique amalgam of Movie making, Amusmentpark and resort. So it makes rather a lot of sense that I don't see eye to eye with you.


Oh FYI, given the numbers SoCal claimed and the rest, someone explain the claims in this article.

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/article.php?id=1740
 
bicker said:
I understand you want me to get into a discussion of feature animation. Sorry, but I won't comply. I just have no interest in that. You're, of course, welcome to evaluate how much you agree with my evaluations of theme park management based on any criteria you like.

I'm sorry that you see my latter statement as dismissiveness. It isn't. I'll ask you to defer to my judgement, if not on the business of theme parks, at least on my own personal intent. Thanks.


Feature Animation provided the genesis of everything Walt Disney ever did with theme parks on a very real significant basis. Movie making in general had more influence then any other art.

If you are unwilling to discuss these topics as they relate to the success or failure of Disney's theme parks, then you fail to discuss the themeparks.
 

I'm sorry. Perhaps you can explain better what specific information you're interested in.
You talk a good game about driving forces of markets, leveraging assets, competition, resource limitations, consumer trends, your impressive consulting background, etc., etc. That's great. However, as a consultant, what is the single most important thing you can do before embarking on an engagement? Let me answer for you. That would be understanding your customer. Their history, their performance, their needs, and how all of that fits into all of those things you have been talking about.

You seem to have a lot of opinions on what Disney is capable of in today's market and what is best for Disney given market considerations and such, but you haven't demonstrated your depth of knowledge and understanding of the history of the company (not that mine is all that great, but it's decent). That is what specific information I was interested in. You see, I don't think one can profess to know how a company like Disney should navigate today's tricky markets, or opine on how good or bad a job the company has been doing over the past 15 years, if they don't have an opinion on something as fundemental to the comapany as feature animation.

You have a great business background. You understand several aspects of the workings of today's markets. You have lots of reasonable opinions and good observations. Wow, if that were combined with a decent understanding of the history of this company, what it has achieved, and how that meshes or doesn't mesh with your business realities of today.......well, now were talking.
At least some of the folks my colleages and I met at WDW were in no way "Roy's". I'm sorry you've not met any of these wonderful, creative people.
I know there are a lot of wonderful, creative folks out there at WDW, I just don't know that they are all that empowered to drive the company in a direction that will put those considerable talents to their best use.

Back to answering questions, or not answering them as the case may be? Before I try and figure out what the sacred cows are all about, please tell me the sacred cows you are referring to. A list would be fine, say sacred cows number 1 through 5.
 
Hey, I may not be able to get a straight answer out of Bicker (darned consultants!!), but I sure and glad that the new PC I bought has an Athlon processor. :cool1:

I can't wait until it arrives and I can :badpc: my old PC.
 
I have never been a producer, writer, artist or business manager for any feature animation studio. I have read a number of histories of the Disney Company, including Building a Company and Keys to the Kingdom, and took one of Disney's executive seminars back when I was in that biz. I also had a colleague who was a consultant to the Disney Company itself. However, none of that qualifies me to contribute to a discussion about feature animation, as would being a producer, writer, artist or business manager for any feature animation studio. That's why I defer, on such issues, to professionals of that industry, and don't put much stock in criticisms of the decisions made by such professionals by folks who don't have those credentials. If my cousin and my brother disagree about my DDD treatment, I'll believe my cousin because she's a physician.

Regardless, I think you are confused about what I mean with regard to sacred cows. There is no "list" of sacred cows. The issue is that management should never hamstring itself by saying, "We have to continue to do things the way we always have..." or "We cannot change that because it has always been that way..." See what I mean?

One last note: I'm not really here to answer your interrogatories (unless they're about your next Disney vacation). I'm here to enjoy myself. I'm sorry if that interferes with your interrogation! :rotfl:
 
Sorry you aren't enjoying yourself. I find the exchange to be worthwhile. However, if you choose to provide opinion without defense of said opinion we will condiser this deposition to be complete.

FWIW, if one were interested in getting into specifics regarding The Walt Disney Company, their actions, and how those actions have aided or hampered their success, as opposed to just making vague references to bovine, one could list those specific things that Disney has been doing which supposedly have them hamstrung.

If one were interested.........
 
Feature animation is a core product of the Walt Disney company. Besides box office take, it contributes to home video sales, ABC and the other cable networks, the theme parks, merchandising, the brand name, etc.

You can't leave it out and have any kind of meaningful discussion about the strategic direction of the company.


Roy was great. He definitely was a significant contributor to the company's success, as Walt himself admitted. The driving force behind the company however, was Walt and the creative process he built. Yes, neither could function as a viable entity without the other, but they were also kept in the proper balance. Roy didn't drive the company's major endeavors, he found a way to make them viable.

That relationship between those two "sides" has changed dramatically. Of course there are still creative people within the company, but they are severely restricted. Not to oversimplify things, but basically, the scale has tipped too far away from the creative side of the business.


Regarding the "real" world... When it comes down to it, I don't think anyone would really argue with bicker on this. His view of the "real world" is shared by a lot of people and businesses. But the idea that its shared by everyone in business, and that there are not other viable alternatives is simply ludicrous. Further, we are not attempting to describe how Disney DOES operate... we all know that. We are talking about how they SHOULD operate, and offering the possibility that they could be far more successful as a result.


The issue of "proof" is another discussion killer. The only proof of ANYTHING is that the decisions made by the company have resulted in a financially viable entity, but one whose stock performance has languished for more than a decade. Not that stock price is the be all end all of discussion, but given that it hasn't been steller to say the least, certainly there should be room to discuss hypotheticals.

By definition, however, a hypothetical cannot be "proven", only supported by evidence, and any business consultant should know that, given that their job is to tell others what they can accomplish "if".

Yup! However, I've found that quite often people aren't disagreeing with me as much as expressing outrage that the system works the way I'm describing.
Maybe not dismissive, but narrow minded. There is no single business model that suits everyone. As I said before, we are all painfully aware that far too many companies follow "the system" simply because its the "safe" play. Again, however, we are talking about what would best suit a single company.

We are fully aware of what Disney is doing, and yeah, we aren't happy about it. Our disagreements with you are a result of our differences in opinion over what Disney SHOULD be doing.

Now, if all you are trying to do is describe what Disney IS doing, then hey, wonderful. No need to continue. We all get it, and have gotten it for quite some time.
 
... and motivated. But instead, we've successfully squeezed all the fun out of this discussion about the rumor of a new water attraction in Epcot. Oh well.
 
The issue is that management should never hamstring itself by saying, "We have to continue to do things the way we always have..." or "We cannot change that because it has always been that way..." See what I mean?

YES!! That's EXACTLY what we are SAYING!

Do you see what we mean?
 
Glad you came around to my line of reasoning Matt! :)
 
For whatever reason, however, that line has taken us to completely different conclusions with regard to its practical application.

Reminds me of a few "on the job" discussions I've had with consultants...
 
bicker said:
... and motivated. But instead, we've successfully squeezed all the fun out of this discussion about the rumor of a new water attraction in Epcot. Oh well.

You could you know have actually provided a reason why you think such an attraction makes sense to counter thos eof us that disagree rather then making dismissive "Father Disney knows best" claims. That's the way this rumors sight tends to work if you haven't noticed.

And anyway, I'm having fun with this discussion now. nothing's been squeezed out of it.

Maybe not dismissive, but narrow minded. There is no single business model that suits everyone.

This is exactly true and may be the single biggest issue in debate in which bicker participates. There is no one system. There are many systems. Corporations the simply ape what they perceive to be the "correct" business plan tend not to work so well in my experience.
 
But instead, we've successfully squeezed all the fun out of this discussion about the rumor of a new water attraction in Epcot.
No, we have been discussing the most important aspect of a rapdids ride at Epcot - the issue whether or not this rumor is likely to be true. And the related issues of why it would be a good idea, why it wouldn't, and how this attraction may or may not fit in with Disney's business practices.

Sure, we could all post our ideas for track layout and all the cute fluffy characters we'd like for them to sell at that the gift shop. But that isn't discussing a rumor - that's wishful thinking and rather cheesy fandom. That certainly has no basis in the real world.

As for animation - the parks were created and operate using the same principles that go into creating movies. If you refuse to understand how to tell a story, you can't understand the parks. You will have no basis to hudge if an attraction will be popular and no idea who elements of a park should operate.

It's the storytelling aspects of Disney that separates them from a hotel on the Vegas Strip. And it's been the downfall of Disney to ignore that fact.
 
DancingBear said:
What's your source for this?

Here you go.

In 2004 hotel occupancy at the resort was 83 percent, 9 percentage points better than the previous year.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a9VDWj4d2lJo&refer=us


In 2005 attendance up about 4%, Per capita spending up 10%, room occupancy up 8%

http://corporate.disney.go.com/investors/quarterly_earnings/2005_q2_transcript.pdf#search='disney%20world%20attendance%202005%20earnings%20third%20quarter


So if we were at 83%, and room occupancy has increased 8%, we are at 90% occupancy.
 
YoHo said:
Oh FYI, given the numbers SoCal claimed and the rest, someone explain the claims in this article.

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/article.php?id=1740

Jim Hill makes for great fiction. I read his site daily. You don't really believe everything he writes, do you? :)

See above for the sources you were looking for. I apologize for not listing them originally.
 


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