New RIV Listing

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Stating for those who are not owners of RIV but another resort via resale.
It prohibits from RIV, and it mentions future resorts are prohibited from RIV. I get what you are saying, but since right now RIV is it, I’d bet it’s worded that way for that purpose. When Reflections comes on, it will state that.
 

Bing Showei

DIS Veteran
DVC Gold
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Don't get me wrong, I love VGF enough to own there, but I certainly don't consider the monorail a better transportation option for us right now than the Skyliner. When we stay at VGF we do our best to avoid busy monorail times because it's really not fun with the stroller.
It’s really not fun even without a stroller.

I can’t wrap my head around how anyone who didn’t time travel from the 1970s can hold up the monorail as any sort of crowning achievement in mass transit.

Iconic? Sure. Reliable means of getting around? Not so much. The fact that monorail resorts are forced to use the monorail to get to Epcot makes it a detriment to any resort not called PVB.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
It’s really not fun even without a stroller.

I can’t wrap my head around how anyone who didn’t time travel from the 1970s can hold up the monorail as any sort of crowning achievement in mass transit.

Iconic? Sure. Reliable means of getting around? Not so much. The fact that monorail resorts are forced to use the monorail to get to Epcot makes it a detriment to any resort not called PVB.
Never thought about it in terms of Epcot because I almost always do split stays.

But, you are right. In January, I from Poly, walking to TTC, and the. Taking the monorail, it took about 30 minutes to get to Epcot.

So, yeah, not that efficient at all.
 

TexasChick123

Always Dreaming of Our Next Vacation
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
It’s really not fun even without a stroller.

I can’t wrap my head around how anyone who didn’t time travel from the 1970s can hold up the monorail as any sort of crowning achievement in mass transit.

Iconic? Sure. Reliable means of getting around? Not so much. The fact that monorail resorts are forced to use the monorail to get to Epcot makes it a detriment to any resort not called PVB.
Never thought about it in terms of Epcot because I almost always do split stays.

But, you are right. In January, I from Poly, walking to TTC, and the. Taking the monorail, it took about 30 minutes to get to Epcot.

So, yeah, not that efficient at all.
This is why we now just take a Lyft over to EP when staying at a monorail resort. Sure, it costs money, but I think it’s around $10-$15 including the tip, AND I now get 10x points with my credit card which equates to 10% off. It’s definitely worth it to me. We also take Lyfts anywhere we’d be stuck taking a bus. I was an Uber user, but 10x points made us switch to Lyft.
 
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Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
This is why we now just take a Lyft over to EP when staying at a monorail resort. Sure, it costs money, but I think it’s around $10-$15 including the tip, AND I now get 10x points with my credit card which equates to 10% off. It’s definitely worth it to me. We take also takes Lyfts anywhere we’d be stuck taking a bus. I was an Uber user, but 10x points made us switch to Lyft.
Next time, I will for sure. I usually Lyft to AK, and a few summers ago when we had a group at SSR, we took buses day 1 and that was it, We used Lyft or Uber for the rest of the trip. I build it into my budget now!
 

ClemTig

Mouseketeer
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Next time, I will for sure. I usually Lyft to AK, and a few summers ago when we had a group at SSR, we took buses day 1 and that was it, We used Lyft or Uber for the rest of the trip. I build it into my budget now!
Let’s keep those secrets to ourselves, if the “commoners” start doing it too traffic will be a nightmare! :snooty:
 

Brianstl

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
My point is that they can do just that, They gave themselves the right to give RIV resale buyers different rules than resale buyers at L14...all there in black and white in the contracts. Specifically says they can give some members rights others don’t have.

View attachment 475468
I don’t think this shields Disney. It doesn’t prevent a judge or a jury from determining they aren’t following the laws written be the legislature.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
I don’t think this shields Disney. It doesn’t prevent a judge or a jury from determining they aren’t following the laws written be the legislature.
It was approved by the Florida Timeshare Bureau. I’d say that indicates it met the laws of the state
 

DVCsloth

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
It’s really not fun even without a stroller.

I can’t wrap my head around how anyone who didn’t time travel from the 1970s can hold up the monorail as any sort of crowning achievement in mass transit.

Iconic? Sure. Reliable means of getting around? Not so much. The fact that monorail resorts are forced to use the monorail to get to Epcot makes it a detriment to any resort not called PVB.
I actually enjoy the monorail to Epcot, we walk from the VGF to the monorail station. I hope they figure out a way to avoid security twice though. I did grow up in the 70s and I'm still a big fan of the monorail. They are way overdue for new cars and hopefully this will help with the reliability.
 

crvetter

DIS Veteran
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
I actually enjoy the monorail to Epcot, we walk from the VGF to the monorail station. I hope they figure out a way to avoid security twice though. I did grow up in the 70s and I'm still a big fan of the monorail. They are way overdue for new cars and hopefully this will help with the reliability.
That has been fixed for a few months now, since the one half of Epcot’s entrance reopened. So when you arrive at Epcot you are in the security bubble now.
 

mustinjourney

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2016
Never thought about it in terms of Epcot because I almost always do split stays.

But, you are right. In January, I from Poly, walking to TTC, and the. Taking the monorail, it took about 30 minutes to get to Epcot.

So, yeah, not that efficient at all.
I'm surprised it took you that long...was it super crowded?

Last time I made that trip (albeit in Jan 2018), it took about 5-7 minutes to walk from the room to the TTC and then 10 or so minutes for the ride from TTC to epcot. It was probably 30 minutes total from room to tapstyle entry though.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
I'm surprised it took you that long...was it super crowded?

Last time I made that trip (albeit in Jan 2018), it took about 5-7 minutes to walk from the room to the TTC and then 10 or so minutes for the ride from TTC to epcot. It was probably 30 minutes total from room to tapstyle entry though.
Walk to TTC was the same, but I just missed it when I got up the ramp. So, I had to wait a good 15 minutes for the next one. So, by the time it came and i got there, it was a good 30 minutes before I was walking down the ramp.

Room to tap was close to 45. Now, I wasn’t walking fast due to foot surgery so that added to the time,

I won’t stay there again, though, for a long time, because I realize I much prefer BLT and VGF when I stay in the area. And will always split one of those between RIV or BCV.
 
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kboo

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
I get what you are saying. The whole resale restriction is hard to understand. They previously used high resale value as a selling point, and actively propped up prices with ROFR. Now they are devaluing resales. Not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't make much sense. It's like being at a craps table and betting on the shooter, and against the shooter at the same time. The only reason to do that is for the free beer.
As they raise direct prices higher and higher, the tactic then shifts to showing a direct buyer how much "more" they are getting for their money.

In the long term possibly RIV, REFL and maybe 2 other new resorts are in full swing by 2030. As the last decade approaches on 2042 resorts, maybe they're setting up a way to split out 2 DVC trading groups somehow? As the point pool expands it'll only become harder to control, and must be high on their radar. I'm not sure how they can achieve this exactly considering how contracts currently stand, but it seems wise to leave options open for themselves moving forward.
I wonder if it's a slow-ish plan to move to 2-3 buckets of DVC owners. Right now there are still plenty of resale owners whose experience is close-to-direct (resale pre 1/19/19 can trade into new resorts). Eventually (by 2042?) pre-2019 resale owners may be rarer than the original OKW buyer. By then many resale buyers will be post-2019, so the choices will be L14, or one specific home resort and no trading. Post 2019 L14 resale buyers may also be the buyers of the Riviera and later resales, to be used at those resorts exclusively. And I don't think Disney will care all that much.


My guess is that typical RIV resale buyers are going to likely be existing owners and will have other qualified points.
YES.

I would not mind buying RIV resale as we love the resort, but if that's the thinking, the current pricing in 170's (with incentives) is not bad to have unrestricted points.
This was our thinking as well. We owned at VGF and BLT and I was thinking of adding on at BLT. But the thought of going through ROFR etc on a resale contract at $140-$145 or having the same # of points, unrestricted, in a matter of days, for a $21 per point upcharge, was worth it to me. All of our points are unrestricted.

Exactly. the monorails have actually had more reliability issues than the skyliners -- but I suspect that not that many people routinely ride the monorails. In Dec of 2018 -- everytime I tried to catch a monorail to MK in the evenings, the lines were so backed up due to the monorails being full (MVMCP and guests resort hopping), that it took 20 minutes before I even boarded the monorail. It was insane.
This might be a reason why the VGF walking path *had* to get done, and soon. You can't sell a "flagship" resort at premium prices (DVC and hotel) with "great" access to MK if you've got to wait 20 minutes to get onto said access. I've been at VGF at times when the line for the monorail extended past the 2nd floor gift shop because it was just too crowded on the platform. That is no flagship experience.

I just go back to the thought process that you can write whatever you want in to a contract. It doesn't make it legal.

I just can't see a one way door being opened in the end. In theory based on that document they could make it so everyone who purchases resale is locked in to only their resort.
There is a concept called "privity of contract" that you should research. Each contract's rights apply only to the parties to the contract.

It’s really not fun even without a stroller.

I can’t wrap my head around how anyone who didn’t time travel from the 1970s can hold up the monorail as any sort of crowning achievement in mass transit.

Iconic? Sure. Reliable means of getting around? Not so much. The fact that monorail resorts are forced to use the monorail to get to Epcot makes it a detriment to any resort not called PVB.
This made me laugh out loud. Iconic, yes. Smelly, yes. Slow, yes. Reliable, no. I went from VGF to BLT to pick up a magic band that I had left at dinner the night before. On the return trip I waited 35 minutes for the monorail, which made us ultimately about 35-40 minutes late for our 1900 Park Fare ADR. The fact they were giving us all limited MK FPs for the day didn't make up for it since we were not planning to be back at MK for the rest of our trip.
 

mustinjourney

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2016
This made me laugh out loud. Iconic, yes. Smelly, yes. Slow, yes. Reliable, no. I went from VGF to BLT to pick up a magic band that I had left at dinner the night before. On the return trip I waited 35 minutes for the monorail, which made us ultimately about 35-40 minutes late for our 1900 Park Fare ADR. The fact they were giving us all limited MK FPs for the day didn't make up for it since we were not planning to be back at MK for the rest of our trip.
It's sad how Disney's response to most screw ups is to just throw 3 anytime FPs at people and call it a day. doesn't cost them a damn thing -- and in actuality -- it just harms the rest of us b/c FP lines end up congested.
 

sethschroeder

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
There is a concept called "privity of contract" that you should research. Each contract's rights apply only to the parties to the contract.
Except it's on my resale BWV contract like it is on the RIV contracts.

If they allowed them to trade in to my resort but I can't trade in to their resort something seems off.

I am not sure how what you stated would effect that.

I would be injured with an influx of RIV resale owners booking OG resorts but no ability for myself as a resale owner to book at RIV.

Put it this way if Disney said Reflections only allowed trading out but no one could ever trade in would that be allowed. I can't see how it would be. Disney has all the voting powers but there has to be some law that protects you if the voting parties purposely cause injury to you.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Except it's on my resale BWV contract like it is on the RIV contracts.

If they allowed them to trade in to my resort but I can't trade in to their resort something seems off.

I am not sure how what you stated would effect that.

I would be injured with an influx of RIV resale owners booking OG resorts but no ability for myself as a resale owner to book at RIV.

Put it this way if Disney said Reflections only allowed trading out but no one could ever trade in would that be allowed. I can't see how it would be. Disney has all the voting powers but there has to be some law that protects you if the voting parties purposely cause injury to you.
Isn’t that the case now? Direct owners can trade to all, resale owners at L14 can’t Trade into new, RiV resale trades nowhere.

I agree that couldn’t enter BVTC with a Reflections like you said, but they obviously have the power to make some points eligible for certain trades and other points not.

Good thing is, IMO, we wont have to worry about it for many years because I am going to bet they wont consider any changes until you have a high percentage of resale owners at RIV,,,and I am going wi5h it taking a good 10 years before it might be something to be looked at.
 

TexasChick123

Always Dreaming of Our Next Vacation
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
All direct purchasers can trade into all resorts. BWV direct can trade into all resorts. BWV resale can’t. RIV direct can trade into all resorts. RIV resale can’t. You can’t compare direct RIV to resale BWV as they joined the club via different means with different perks. There have been different perks for direct since 2011. Apparently, they have listed trading into other resorts as a perk they can take away. I’m not a timeshare attorney, but if it was ever labeled as a perk that could change, as much as I hate it, they changed it. :(
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
All direct purchasers can trade into all resorts. BWV direct can trade into all resorts. BWV resale can’t. RIV direct can trade into all resorts. RIV resale can’t. You can’t compare direct RIV to resale BWV as they joined the club via different means with different perks. There have been different perks for direct since 2011. Apparently, they have listed trading into other resorts as a perk they can take away. I’m not a timeshare attorney, but if it was ever labeled as a perk that could change, as much as I hate it, they changed it. :(
What I never realized until recently was the document was approved by Florida Timeshare Bureau. I think that aspect gave it more legally standing then I initially thought.

Im trying to get a copy of the BVTC POS as I didn’t get one recently. I am just excited to see what this listing went for!
 

sethschroeder

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Isn’t that the case now? Direct owners can trade to all, resale owners at L14 can’t Trade into new, RiV resale trades nowhere.

I agree that couldn’t enter BVTC with a Reflections like you said, but they obviously have the power to make some points eligible for certain trades and other points not.

Good thing is, IMO, we wont have to worry about it for many years because I am going to bet they wont consider any changes until you have a high percentage of resale owners at RIV,,,and I am going wi5h it taking a good 10 years before it might be something to be looked at.
No because there was a date and everyone after that agreed to the rule of no trade in and out.

I didn't agree to trade out but no trade in for RIV.
 

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