New Private Island

OOOOOOOoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess they do need somewhere new to dock all those new ships they are building.
 
They could afford to buy another island if needed.
 

Theres 2 things that I find interesting about that particular spot that is allegedly on DCLs radar.

First, is its location. Its east of Nassau and south and east of the existing island, which means it would take longer to get to PC from there. One of the original requirements of their private island search, was it had to be less then 250 miles from PC, and it had to be available. That's not to say that Miami or FtL isn't on DCLs radar.Id have to get a chart and a pair of dividers to see if its doable.

Second, is that it looks like that island may be inhabited similar to some of the other lines private islands. Usually Disney would want an all or nothing type arrangement, so itll be interesting to see how this plays out. If its even moving ahead.
 
I just can't imagine the new ships being east coast enough to warrant another island there.
 
I just can't imagine the new ships being east coast enough to warrant another island there.
Doesn't necessarily have to be the new ships. Right now, CC is used 3 out of 7 days. A ship in Miami doing 3/4s would add 2 more days. Realistically, most of the fleet most likely will be on the east coast some where. 1 will be on the west coast, 1 doing Europe, 2in PC at least, that leaves 4. So 1 in NY say, a 3rd in PC, (Thats the continuing trend at PC)and the remainder in say Miami or Galveston. So for arguments sake, say the NY ship stops at CC. Were now at 4out of 7. Add a 3rd ship to PC doing4/5s and now at 6 days out of 7. It would make sense for DCL to add a 2nd island in the Carib, if for nothing else to give us something new and improved to go to.
 
Doesn't necessarily have to be the new ships. Right now, CC is used 3 out of 7 days. A ship in Miami doing 3/4s would add 2 more days. Realistically, most of the fleet most likely will be on the east coast some where. 1 will be on the west coast, 1 doing Europe, 2in PC at least, that leaves 4. So 1 in NY say, a 3rd in PC, (Thats the continuing trend at PC)and the remainder in say Miami or Galveston. So for arguments sake, say the NY ship stops at CC. Were now at 4out of 7. Add a 3rd ship to PC doing4/5s and now at 6 days out of 7. It would make sense for DCL to add a 2nd island in the Carib, if for nothing else to give us something new and improved to go to.
In the summer - when Alaska and all of Europe are open for cruises - we will likely see two DCL ships operating in each of Alaska and Europe. These are currently the highest-margin itineraries for pretty much every North American cruise line.

The Caribbeans is getting super-saturated - but works well for the winter season. I expect one of the ships to be full-time in Asia, one on the west coast, and possibly one in Europe - with two others repositioning in the shoulder seasons.

This island, if developed with exclusivity, probably won't be ready until after 2025. (An Aulani-style resort may be ready sooner.) In earlier 2020s, expect to see DCL announcing another 3 to 5 new ships on order - probably delivered cicra 2026-2030 - and incl. the replacements for the classics.
 
In the summer - when Alaska and all of Europe are open for cruises - we will likely see two DCL ships operating in each of Alaska and Europe. These are currently the highest-margin itineraries for pretty much every North American cruise line.

The Caribbeans is getting super-saturated - but works well for the winter season. I expect one of the ships to be full-time in Asia, one on the west coast, and possibly one in Europe - with two others repositioning in the shoulder seasons.

This island, if developed with exclusivity, probably won't be ready until after 2025. (An Aulani-style resort may be ready sooner.) In earlier 2020s, expect to see DCL announcing another 3 to 5 new ships on order - probably delivered cicra 2026-2030 - and incl. the replacements for the classics.


I doubt that DCL will send 2 ships to the Med, Alaska or even Asia. The reason is past practice. DCL has not tested the Asian market yet but has shown signs of testing more of the Caribbean market. The southern that were done from PR for example, the trips out of NY and Galveston. It shows where DCLs interest lies. PC is a huge cash is for DCL. When the Dream class was built it was advertised it would roughly 6 years from Maiden to pay off each ship. It was done in 3. The current trend is for lines to out 3 ships or increase there cabins in PC and in general Fl. I would expect at least 2 of the new ships to debut in PC with at least 1 of the existing Dream class moving to either Alaska or the Med. That frees up a smaller older ship to try thing out like Miami 7 day southern or NY trips with out having to worry about filling a large ship. Every line does it. They take smaller proven ships to new ports to guage Interest and profitability. Which is why I included Galveston as a possibility.
 
I wish Disney would sail out of Asia (or Australia!). We will be leaving here in a about a year so unfortunately even if they did we wouldn't be close anymore. But the Pacific Ocean has some beautiful islands if Disney is feeling the need to purchase some land. lol!

Our next cruise is on RCI, out of Sydney and I am sure it will be a great time, but I would have loved a Disney option that didn't require 30+ hours of travel time.

That all being said, I do think another island for cruise ships to visit will be needed in the future. Also, we loved Aulani and I could see Disney building some sort of similar resort somewhere else too.
 
I doubt that DCL will send 2 ships to the Med, Alaska or even Asia. The reason is past practice. DCL has not tested the Asian market yet but has shown signs of testing more of the Caribbean market. The southern that were done from PR for example, the trips out of NY and Galveston. It shows where DCLs interest lies. PC is a huge cash is for DCL. When the Dream class was built it was advertised it would roughly 6 years from Maiden to pay off each ship. It was done in 3. The current trend is for lines to out 3 ships or increase there cabins in PC and in general Fl. I would expect at least 2 of the new ships to debut in PC with at least 1 of the existing Dream class moving to either Alaska or the Med. That frees up a smaller older ship to try thing out like Miami 7 day southern or NY trips with out having to worry about filling a large ship. Every line does it. They take smaller proven ships to new ports to guage Interest and profitability. Which is why I included Galveston as a possibility.
I wouldn't hold breath for any of this. If any of this was going to happen, DCL wouldn't be in Alaska or Europe as is. The primary reason they have Dream and Fantasy tethered to PC in the summer is the PC port contract - otherwise, they would already be trying out other itineraries - even in the Caribbeans.

Half of the cruise industry's profits are made in the summer season simply because Alaska, Europe, etc. open up and everyone wants to sail those itineraries crammed into 4 months.
 
I wouldn't hold breath for any of this. If any of this was going to happen, DCL wouldn't be in Alaska or Europe as is. The primary reason they have Dream and Fantasy tethered to PC in the summer is the PC port contract - otherwise, they would already be trying out other itineraries - even in the Caribbeans.

Half of the cruise industry's profits are made in the summer season simply because Alaska, Europe, etc. open up and everyone wants to sail those itineraries crammed into 4 months.


True the Dream class being tied to PC initially was due to the contract. This was so the port would forgive the 400000 fine that DCL was facing for missing out on port calls at PC and also so the port would pay the lions share of the upgrades at the port. That part of the contract stipulated by name for only 5 years and ran out in 16 for the Dream and 17 for the Fantasy. From March of 17 the contract reads at least 2 ships with a minimum of 150 sailings per year. Other wise they get fined again.
DCL tried Europe, came home, fine tuned, went back 2 or 3 years later, and over time, now go over every year. Its part of what got them in trouble with the port.
They did the same thing with California, which added to the port fine. They went over, went back 2years later, now expanded into Alaska.Now the Wonder Lives at least part time in Alaska. The thing is, is that the Wonder was specifically modified for Alaska, no only enclosing Outlook but other modifications required to sail up there.
DCL has been trying out different ports, in the off seasons when the Magic and Wonder aren't in Europe and Alaska. Magic has done several years ( at least 2 if not more) in NYC since the Dream class arrived, doing northerly Nova Scotia trips,and south bound trips stopping in PC andother places along the way. Wonder has been doing the same thing. Wonder has done 3 southern trips out of San Juan, doing different islands in the ABCs, and has spent time in Miami, and Galveston. Magic has also left out of SJ if Im not mistaken, and the Fantasy did a trip the relate last year I think. I know she did at least 1 if not 2 trips to SJ. So yes, DCL is trying different ports and different routes.
The Magic and the Wonder have both spent time at PC as the 3rd ship. (They both have been in Galveston also )Most notably this year. The Wonder did 3/4s that the Dream was doing, along with the Dream and the Fantasy stayed on the alternating 7s. Magics in Miami for a little bit. Friend of ours is on her right now. Last year I think the Magic was the 3rd ship, and was doing 7s with the Fantasy, except 1 did easts the other wests before mixing things up. So yes, DCL is testing different things here in FL and the Caribbean. In my opinion not nearly as soon as they should have, or routes they should be trying but they are putting ships indifferent places. Looking at the cruise industry as a whole, and the patterns, DCL is almost always behind the other lines. A lack of ships has handicapped them.
The trend for any given line, trying something out and Ill use Baltimore as a neutral port is this. First they send a smaller ship, usually 1 of the older ones to gauge interest so to speak. This way, the ship is usually paid off, and its easier to fill a ship with 800 cabins vs a ship with 1500. If that particular route works,and the ship is sailing at a given percentage, they move a slightly larger ship in and bump the smaller ship some where else. And the process goes on,either swapping ships or adding ships. Which is the trend out of PC. RC and Carnival started with 1, then 2, and now either have 3, or the worlds largest ship and ship 2 sizes down. I can count on 1 hand and probably have fingers to spare, the number of times that any line has sent brand new ships to try out brand new ports and routes. I can only think of 2 examples off hand, because it simply doesn't happen.
To date, DCL has shown no real interest in going back to Hawaii, or going over to Asia. Im not saying that they'll never go over there, it may be farther down the list then whats staring them in the face.
The signs are there.

Heres 1 more thing to take into consideration on the new ships homeports. The new ships are lng and theres only a handful of ports worldwide that can accommodate them. East coast I think there is 3 ports. Closest is Jacksonville. Its 1 thing to berth a ship in a port, its a different story if the port cant fuel them. PC is adding infrastructure to handle lng ships and expects to be done by 2021 I believe.
 
I wish Disney would sail out of Asia (or Australia!). We will be leaving here in a about a year so unfortunately even if they did we wouldn't be close anymore. But the Pacific Ocean has some beautiful islands if Disney is feeling the need to purchase some land. lol!

Our next cruise is on RCI, out of Sydney and I am sure it will be a great time, but I would have loved a Disney option that didn't require 30+ hours of travel time.

That all being said, I do think another island for cruise ships to visit will be needed in the future. Also, we loved Aulani and I could see Disney building some sort of similar resort somewhere else too.

I think eventually youll see a ship over there. My guess, probably not for 5-10 years at least. You did hit on something that I hadn't considered until just now. Suppose the rumor about Lighthouse point isn't DCL but DVC? It would be easy to mistake the two, and would explain why they are looking at a populated island as opposed to a population free island. Especially since DVC is on a building spree. An Aulani type resort would fit the island.
 
I would like to see some new itineraries and having another private island or DVC resort would be cool also. But, not on Eleuthera. It's my favorite Bahama and the southern end already has enough development from Princess. I would be very disappointed to see Cotton Bay and Lighthouse developed. The natural beauty should be enjoyed as it is.
 
Half of the cruise industry's profits are made in the summer season simply because Alaska, Europe, etc. open up and everyone wants to sail those itineraries crammed into 4 months.
Well, that is when all of the kids are out of school.............so that makes sense.
 
In the summer - when Alaska and all of Europe are open for cruises - we will likely see two DCL ships operating in each of Alaska and Europe. These are currently the highest-margin itineraries for pretty much every North American cruise line.

The Caribbeans is getting super-saturated - but works well for the winter season. I expect one of the ships to be full-time in Asia, one on the west coast, and possibly one in Europe - with two others repositioning in the shoulder seasons.

This island, if developed with exclusivity, probably won't be ready until after 2025. (An Aulani-style resort may be ready sooner.) In earlier 2020s, expect to see DCL announcing another 3 to 5 new ships on order - probably delivered cicra 2026-2030 - and incl. the replacements for the classics.

Not by Disney! I've been waiting for years for them to expand their itineraries to other islands (for more than just a couple of cruises a season!). I'd rather have better itineraries than another CC type island.
 
Heres 1 more thing to take into consideration on the new ships homeports. The new ships are lng and theres only a handful of ports worldwide that can accommodate them. East coast I think there is 3 ports. Closest is Jacksonville. Its 1 thing to berth a ship in a port, its a different story if the port cant fuel them. PC is adding infrastructure to handle lng ships and expects to be done by 2021 I believe.

While I would love to see Disney cruise out of Jacksonville as it's the closest port to where I live, the problem is that the new ships will be too tall for the current cruise port as they would need to sail under the Dames Point Bridge. The city has been rumored on and off over the years to be considering moving the cruise port east of the bridge, but unless that happens the fact that the port can accommodate LNG unfortunately won't matter.
 
Just a thought...

There have been rumblings in the past about delegations from the Port of New Orleans talking to DCL. Carnival, NCL, and RCCL are all homeporting from there, Carnival with multiple ships. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Wonder there as it would be a perfect tie-in with the Tiana theming...
 
True the Dream class being tied to PC initially was due to the contract. This was so the port would forgive the 400000 fine that DCL was facing for missing out on port calls at PC and also so the port would pay the lions share of the upgrades at the port. That part of the contract stipulated by name for only 5 years and ran out in 16 for the Dream and 17 for the Fantasy. From March of 17 the contract reads at least 2 ships with a minimum of 150 sailings per year. Other wise they get fined again.
DCL tried Europe, came home, fine tuned, went back 2 or 3 years later, and over time, now go over every year. Its part of what got them in trouble with the port.
They did the same thing with California, which added to the port fine. They went over, went back 2years later, now expanded into Alaska.Now the Wonder Lives at least part time in Alaska. The thing is, is that the Wonder was specifically modified for Alaska, no only enclosing Outlook but other modifications required to sail up there.
DCL has been trying out different ports, in the off seasons when the Magic and Wonder aren't in Europe and Alaska. Magic has done several years ( at least 2 if not more) in NYC since the Dream class arrived, doing northerly Nova Scotia trips,and south bound trips stopping in PC andother places along the way. Wonder has been doing the same thing. Wonder has done 3 southern trips out of San Juan, doing different islands in the ABCs, and has spent time in Miami, and Galveston. Magic has also left out of SJ if Im not mistaken, and the Fantasy did a trip the relate last year I think. I know she did at least 1 if not 2 trips to SJ. So yes, DCL is trying different ports and different routes.
The Magic and the Wonder have both spent time at PC as the 3rd ship. (They both have been in Galveston also )Most notably this year. The Wonder did 3/4s that the Dream was doing, along with the Dream and the Fantasy stayed on the alternating 7s. Magics in Miami for a little bit. Friend of ours is on her right now. Last year I think the Magic was the 3rd ship, and was doing 7s with the Fantasy, except 1 did easts the other wests before mixing things up. So yes, DCL is testing different things here in FL and the Caribbean. In my opinion not nearly as soon as they should have, or routes they should be trying but they are putting ships indifferent places. Looking at the cruise industry as a whole, and the patterns, DCL is almost always behind the other lines. A lack of ships has handicapped them.
The trend for any given line, trying something out and Ill use Baltimore as a neutral port is this. First they send a smaller ship, usually 1 of the older ones to gauge interest so to speak. This way, the ship is usually paid off, and its easier to fill a ship with 800 cabins vs a ship with 1500. If that particular route works,and the ship is sailing at a given percentage, they move a slightly larger ship in and bump the smaller ship some where else. And the process goes on,either swapping ships or adding ships. Which is the trend out of PC. RC and Carnival started with 1, then 2, and now either have 3, or the worlds largest ship and ship 2 sizes down. I can count on 1 hand and probably have fingers to spare, the number of times that any line has sent brand new ships to try out brand new ports and routes. I can only think of 2 examples off hand, because it simply doesn't happen.
To date, DCL has shown no real interest in going back to Hawaii, or going over to Asia. Im not saying that they'll never go over there, it may be farther down the list then whats staring them in the face.
The signs are there.

Heres 1 more thing to take into consideration on the new ships homeports. The new ships are lng and theres only a handful of ports worldwide that can accommodate them. East coast I think there is 3 ports. Closest is Jacksonville. Its 1 thing to berth a ship in a port, its a different story if the port cant fuel them. PC is adding infrastructure to handle lng ships and expects to be done by 2021 I believe.
Those are excellent observations - I haven't been following the ships that closely. At least their histories. That being said, I don't see Disney committing too much more to the Caribbeans for a number of reasons (beyond the obvious super saturation).

1. DCL's marketing startegy is pretty straightforward. Get families into cruising with a three- or four-nighter aboard Dream out of PC. (Get them while they are at the parks.) Move them up to a 7-nighter in Fantasy or another longer itinerary in the Caribbeans - and then get them to splurge on the itineraries with fat profits (Alaska + Europe). Most North American families won't start their DCL cruising in Alaska or Europe (unless accompanying someone else), but the lifetime value of a DCL cruiser climbs astronomically once you can get them out of the Caribbeans.

2. The funnel. If you have too many low-margin itineraries, you will have people hooked on to cruising, but they will then flee to other cruise lines for better itineraries. You want them to stay with you when the real spending comes. (You want to grow - no pun - with your cruising families.) Unlike other cruise lines, DCL doesn't have millennial vs experience brands - so the segmentation must come from the cruising experience itself.

3. Let's do the numbers. Let's calculate the fares of a verandah room with four occupants for the combined months of July and August 2019. I would use the 2018 numbers, but several Wonder verandahs are sold out for those dates.

Disney Fantasy: $4,340 + $9,841 + $8,662 + $6,760 + $9,757 + $9,964 + $8,020 + $5,369 + $13,523 = $76,236
Disney Wonder: $10,496 + $14,732 + $14,539 + $14,217 + $13,755 + $12,817 + $11,826 + $11,099 + $18,184 = $121,665

Now, let's look at the availability in July and August 2018. Categories include inside, oceanview, verandah, and concierge.

Disney Fantasy: Out of 4 categories x 9 sailings, 5 are sold out.
Disney Wonder: Out of 4 categories x 9 sailings, 16 are sold out.

So - DCL charges ~60% more on Wonder, yet four times as many Wonder sailings are sold out. That's a staggering demand/supply imbalance. (Caveat: Fantasy has ~42% more rooms - but also a disproportionately higher build cost.)

4. There is nothing to 'try out' any more in Europe and Alaska. These are established cruise markets. Princess, for example, will have nearly a dozen ships deployed in Alaska next year. The modifications required are trivial compared to the profits. Yes, DCL is not a trend maker, but going to Alaska and Europe in 2022 is a much belated trend following.

5. Disney has shown tremendous interest in Asia. It now has three - not one or two but three - theme parks in Asia Pacific. And they are ringing in big numbers. Disney just need to push through another 4 or 5 years of movies - just in time for the last of the new ships to roll out.

6. Completely agreed about the LNG ports - but most of the fully developed LNG ports are currently in Europe. Spain (such as in Barcelona) is investing in LNG fueling capacity, and Germany is way ahead in that respect.
 


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