New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[Dean]

Dean:

For some people, their DVC vacation every one, two, or three years may be their only vacation and they need it to work out well for them. They may not have any other vacation options like other people have.

Timeshares involve risk and compromise, one cannot count on it working out every year including with the old or new DVC reservation system (even if one has been successful so far). I chose not to put my eggs in one basket and feel it's a risk to do so.

In my humble opinion, this new reservation system could very well make it difficult for those that travel during busy and peak vacation periods and for those that have multiple contracts at multiple resorts. I prefer to view myself as an educated person regarding the DVC vacation system rather then a nay-sayer.

That is your opinion to which you are entitled, I personally don't think so but we shall see. These times were always difficult and risky and a change that shifts the mix of those who are successful is not automatically a bad change just because someone who has been getting what they want now does not. For every person who doesn't get their reservation 11 months out, there was another person previously who also didn't. Possible more total people because of the DBD where multiple people could hold a partial reservation.

Taken from the member site... hope it's ok to do this

It seems they've been reading from my script, doesn't it?

 

[Dean]

They also are not acknowledging that some people don't like it. One half of this is marketing spin and one half of this is actually useful. And the statement I highlighted is outright incorrect.

They were just not complete in that they didn't include the DBD reservation component.

 

[maminnie]

Dean:

As Deb and Bill pointed out, EVERYONE had the opportunity to call day by day. No one was excluded from doing this. Over the ten years I have payed due diligence and have been successful with the day by day system even if I had to ask people to help me out when I could not make the calls. The new system rewards those that simply are arriving a few days earlier both in making reservations and getting on 7 month waitlists for other resorts.

Let me give another example:

Let's say a member owns at BCV and over the years they have been calling day by day to get one of the 25 two bedroom queen/queen dedicated units for a busy travel time. They travel Sunday to Friday because they do not have enough points to stay Saturday and Sunday. With the new system if 25 members call and reserve Friday to Friday and Saturday to Saturday, guess what, there are no rooms available when that member calls at exactly 9:00am the first day they are permitted to call simply because of their check-in date. Up until the new policy, this member has always been successful. (No this is not me.)

Basically the new system gives members access to inventory and getting on waitlists for other resorts PRIOR to the 11 month and 7 month window. This is not the system that many members bought into. People can say what they want about day by day calling and whether it was really simply tolerated by DVC, but DVC has acknowledged in their statement on the DVC member site about the new system that members were previously having to call day by day and the "enhancement" now eliminates this. There was nothing written that said you could not add on days to an existing reservation. So day by day calling although a real pain at times, was advocated and suggested by vacation sales guides and Member Service representatives over the years. All members had the option to do it.

Giving people access to inventory prior to the 11 month and 7 month booking window is UNFAIR and frankly breaks the rules in my opinion.

 

[Dean]

Dean:

As Deb and Bill pointed out, EVERYONE had the opportunity to call day by day. No one was excluded from doing this. Over the nine years I have payed due diligence and have been successful with the day by day system even if I had to ask people to help me out when I could not make the calls. The new system rewards those that simply are arriving a few days earlier both in making reservations and getting on 7 month waitlists for other resorts.

Let me give another example:

Let's say a member owns at BCV and over the years they have been calling day by day to get one of the 25 two bedroom queen/queen dedicated units for a busy travel time. They travel Sunday to Friday because they do not have enough points to stay Saturday and Sunday. With the new system if 25 members call and reserve Friday to Friday and Saturday to Saturday, guess what, there are no rooms available when that member calls at exactly 9:00am the first day they are permitted to call simply because of their check-in date. Up until the new policy, this member has always been successful. (No this is not me.)

Basically the new system gives members access to inventory and getting on waitlists for other resorts PRIOR to the 11 month and 7 month window. This is not the system that many members bought into. People can say what they want about day by day calling and whether it was really simply tolerated by DVC, but DVC has acknowledged in their statement on the DVC member site about the new system that members were previously having to call day by day and the "enhancement" now eliminates this. There was nothing written that said you could not add on days to an existing reservation. So day by day calling although a real pain at times, was advocated and suggested by vacation sales guides and Member Service representatives over the years. All members had the option to do it.

Giving people access to inventory prior to the 11 month and 7 month booking window is UNFAIR and frankly breaks the rules in my opinion.

I'm not going to cont to argue with you, I doubt we'll ever agree on this issue. I'll simply say it is not unfair IMO even if it does make it harder to reserve some times over others. Given DVC has the option of changing the reservation system in essentially any way they want, I don't see how one could hold the position of this being outside the rules. I assume you're trying to say that by allowing one to reserve at +7 days that that is in violation of the POS 11/7 rules but that would not be accurate in my opinion. And I get the feeling there may be other changes as popular as well.

This is not the system that many members bought into.

Systems change, anyone buying in should both know and expect this. Certainly if one had posted this info a year ago, they would have gotten an overwhelming response suggesting it would never happen. I've personally posted this exact item as one thing that DVC could and possibly would do and those that responded all said "no way". What was Doc's comments on a thread where I posted a list of similar items, that he wouldn't buy in to such a system and labeled it "Dean's Vacation Club".

 

[alldiz]

I just noticed that DVC has added further info on their website about the changes. It's nice to see that they are taking our suggestions.

However, I wish they would post the percentage of members who called in and said that they were "excited" about the new policy. Just curious.

I didn't call....but I sent a letter telling MS that I am indeed happy with this change. I also mentioned some of the concerns that were brought up here.

I am happy with the DVC response....even it is obvious to me that they are trying to please the vast majority of members....and they are actively watching how this policy plays out.

I believe this new policy will be easier for me....so I'm happy. I am like the vast majority who does not book more than 7 days using points...dosen't mean I never will.....but it seems like I can call day by day to add the days. No biggie.
Kerri

 

[DVC Mike]

I am happy with the DVC response....even it is obvious to me that they are trying to please the vast majority of members....and they are actively watching how this policy plays out.

I agree.

 

[mrdiscranky]

This issue sure seems to be one of mass hysteria at it's finest.

You agree the policy is broken and will needed further fixes to make it work properly. You also agree that it's going to hurt some people. Are you really surprised that people are upset?

PS - For what it's worth, I'm starting to come around and think that the system can work if fixed. But I think the fix isn't to prevent people from dropping days - it's to prevent them from adding days to a reservation.

 

[mrdiscranky]

Hmmm, in Disney's Q&A's on the 7-day limit, they seem to have skipped the most important... why is it there? What does it accomplish?

For those who have talked to Disney about the new policy, has this ever come up?

 

[bookwormde]

Wow the Disney info was written by a real spin master. Nothing is a lie but it does not tell the whole truth.

Yes everyone is “excited” about the new program; they just fail to mention that much of the excitement is about how unfair the new system is.

I was thinking that DVC was taking our concerns seriously but after reading this I have serious doubts, it just sound like they are trying to justify a poorly thought through decision.

I guess I just went to somewhat patient to significantly annoyed.

bookwormde

 

[dianeschlicht]

Wow the Disney info was written by a real spin master. Nothing is a lie but it does not tell the whole truth.

Yes everyone is “excited” about the new program; they just fail to mention that much of the excitement is about how unfair the new system is.

I was thinking that DVC was taking our concerns seriously but after reading this I have serious doubts, it just sound like they are trying to justify a poorly thought through decision.

I guess I just went to somewhat patient to significantly annoyed.

bookwormde

I agree....total spin. I do think they will wait and watch though. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until the first time I have problems getting my concierge room on three years of AKV points. I'm quite sure I'm going to have to "walk" that reservation.

 

[zulaya]

(Snipped from Laurabearz quote from the Member Website...)

The previous policy required Members to call daily at the beginning of their booking window, piecing together their reservation one night at a time.


Excuse me...this was NEVER REQUIRED! How many members have gone through their reservations thinking that it was ALWAYS required to call DBD?

This is a crock. And it is complete spin. I'm so insulted by corporate spin, it makes me sick.

Show me the numbers. PROVE IT to me that all these members complained. Otherwise, this is nothing about members, it's about bottom line. And I guess if that's the prime motivation, I'll be irked about it, but I'd have more respect for it and accept it better if they'd just come out and tell the truth about why this policy was enacted.

But then, they probably don't care how I feel personally, no matter the bull I was fed by the person who called me and spewed how they listen to members.

Whatever...

 

[zulaya]

I don't get a big warm fuzzy over this but at least I understand why members thought they couldn't make a reservation with just one phone call - apparently DVC didn't know you could under the old system either.

They also are not acknowledging that some people don't like it. One half of this is marketing spin and one half of this is actually useful. And the statement I highlighted is outright incorrect.

I should have scrolled down and quoted you. I completely agree and I'll go farther than your polite statement of being outright incorrect...it's an outright lie and they should know it.

 

[jdg345]

I don't get a big warm fuzzy over this but at least I understand why members thought they couldn't make a reservation with just one phone call - apparently DVC didn't know you could under the old system either.

They also are not acknowledging that some people don't like it. One half of this is marketing spin and one half of this is actually useful. And the statement I highlighted is outright incorrect.

I agree ... and they turned those saying they didn't like the policy into those asking for clarification on it.

Apparently, we all like the new policy, it's just that we're confused.

 

[jdg345]

I agree....total spin. I do think they will wait and watch though. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until the first time I have problems getting my concierge room on three years of AKV points. I'm quite sure I'm going to have to "walk" that reservation.

I started walking mine already! You better get in gear!

 

[delmar411]

MS would never go for this, but:

What if you were allowed to make your reservation of any length beginning on the first day of the month that is 11 months from your check-in date. For example, If you wanted a reservation that begins in March 2010, then you can call on April 1, 2009.

MS probably wouldn't go for this as you would have an avalanche of calls on the first of each month, but you would effectively still allow everyone to call in for a reservation at exactly the same time (there would be monthly carry-overs, but that would probably be negligible), it would allow you to book all of your reservation with one call, and on the whole, would probably reduce the overall amount of calls to MS. They sure would have to overstaff the 1st though...

I like this idea a lot! That does make it much easier to staff correctly and puts everyone on a fair playing field. It also eliminates trying to figure when your 11mth window opens up.

This is the best idea I've seen tossed out here.

 

[dianeschlicht]

(Snipped from Laurabearz quote from the Member Website...)

The previous policy required Members to call daily at the beginning of their booking window, piecing together their reservation one night at a time.


Excuse me...this was NEVER REQUIRED! How many members have gone through their reservations thinking that it was ALWAYS required to call DBD?

This is a crock. And it is complete spin. I'm so insulted by corporate spin, it makes me sick.

Show me the numbers. PROVE IT to me that all these members complained. Otherwise, this is nothing about members, it's about bottom line. And I guess if that's the prime motivation, I'll be irked about it, but I'd have more respect for it and accept it better if they'd just come out and tell the truth about why this policy was enacted.

But then, they probably don't care how I feel personally, no matter the bull I was fed by the person who called me and spewed how they listen to members.

Whatever...

Well said!

 

[Kathi OD]

Dean:

As Deb and Bill pointed out, EVERYONE had the opportunity to call day by day. No one was excluded from doing this. Over the nine years I have payed due diligence and have been successful with the day by day system even if I had to ask people to help me out when I could not make the calls. The new system rewards those that simply are arriving a few days earlier both in making reservations and getting on 7 month waitlists for other resorts.

Let me give another example:

Let's say a member owns at BCV and over the years they have been calling day by day to get one of the 25 two bedroom queen/queen dedicated units for a busy travel time. They travel Sunday to Friday because they do not have enough points to stay Saturday and Sunday. With the new system if 25 members call and reserve Friday to Friday and Saturday to Saturday, guess what, there are no rooms available when that member calls at exactly 9:00am the first day they are permitted to call simply because of their check-in date. Up until the new policy, this member has always been successful. (No this is not me.)

Basically the new system gives members access to inventory and getting on waitlists for other resorts PRIOR to the 11 month and 7 month window. This is not the system that many members bought into. People can say what they want about day by day calling and whether it was really simply tolerated by DVC, but DVC has acknowledged in their statement on the DVC member site about the new system that members were previously having to call day by day and the "enhancement" now eliminates this. There was nothing written that said you could not add on days to an existing reservation. So day by day calling although a real pain at times, was advocated and suggested by vacation sales guides and Member Service representatives over the years. All members had the option to do it.

Giving people access to inventory prior to the 11 month and 7 month booking window is UNFAIR and frankly breaks the rules in my opinion.

Deb & Bill's suggestion that everyone had the ability to call DBD is just wrong. The suggestion that you should get others to make your ressies for you if you can't is totally irresponsible. In today's world, who would give out personal information to someone else so they could make a reservation with Disney?

Adding an Associate member, as Grandpa suggests? Do you really want someone else to have access to your points? Wouldn't it be great to try and make your ressie only to be told that there were no more points available? Don't believe that it couldn't and wouldn't happen.

Cell phones? That's a great idea, except mine isn't allowed in the building where I work. We are searched going in. Cell phones not allowed. Even if they were allowed, how many would be happy if their child came home and told them that the teacher stopped class at 8:55 so she could make her vacation ressies at Disney?

Just because those of you who have been using DBD are angry because you no longer have advantage over everyone else, doesn't mean the rest of us are. Many of us see this change as finally putting everyone on equal footing with regard to making ressies for their vacation, regardless of when we travel. No one, whatever their reason, has a leg up. You call and you either get or not get and waitlist.

It may have seemed more fair if you had to wait until 11 & 7 months before checkout, but I don't see the big difference there.

Welcome to the real world, where you don't get everything you want, every time you want it, even if you've bought a DVC.

 

[zulaya]

What I think is terrible, and I know it's been hashed over, but I think it bears repeating...

What if you don't have enough points to "walk" your reservation? This is going to happen. People don't have enough points to do it, or they'd have do that permanent thing called borrowing to secure something, possibly messing up their future plans.

I'll talk about myself because unless this policy somehow magically works out better than I envision, I have a good chance of being stuck myself. I'm planning out a GV reservation at AKV. I'm coming in FRI-FRI, but staying the weeknights at BCV in a 1BR before switching to the GV for Sun-Thurs. I'd be using 3 years worth of points to do this. Oh, and my plan is for early December.

So I have a hot unit at a hot time for DVCers and I think that this policy will have me between a rock and a hard place. I feel that I have to expect to be shut out on my first call. And we all know how easy that Dec waitlist fills. Check the Misc. board for that giant thread.

I know I'm just one person. I don't expect DVC to change just for me. But I can't be the sole person and I'm having trouble believing that many more people approve of this policy, much less already know about it. We've talked about how a small percentage of us owners are online on forums such as this.

I just don't get how they don't see where those of us who have legitimate concerns are coming from. If they just don't care, and this is all about keeping their percentage of our dues and making their bottom line better, just say so. I'd rather not waste my breath or my time if what I have to say isn't really going to make a dent in the mind of whoever decided this was the greatest idea.

 

[pyrxtc]

You agree the policy is broken and will needed further fixes to make it work properly. You also agree that it's going to hurt some people. Are you really surprised that people are upset?

PS - For what it's worth, I'm starting to come around and think that the system can work if fixed. But I think the fix isn't to prevent people from dropping days - it's to prevent them from adding days to a reservation.

Why would the fix prevent people from adding days? There are quite a few people that like to take one long vacation instead of multiple short ones. I think the only "fix" would be to stop people from dropping the begining and adding to the end. I like the idea of a 14 day hold so that the only ones that would able to "walk" a reservation would be those that could hold out all of their bookings for those 14 days with enough points to do it all. I think even a month is a reasonable time to prevent people from changing their initial reservation wihtout havign to rebook. There is nothing you find out within that first month that you HAVE TO change the days right away. This would only apply to direct 11/7 window.

Also I don't see anywhere in the rules on where we can waitlist for a resort different than our home during the 11-8 month advantage. you can do it at 7 months but I'm sure not before.

 

[WolfpackFan]

Sheesh, you folks are about to beat this thing to death. Give it a chance folks. It worked fine for me Tuesday getting my HHI ressie and it was really nice not having to make those day by day calls. Give DVC an opportunity to demonstrate they know what they're doing. You all act like it's the end of the world. It's just a vacation for goodness sake. Who knows come a year from now, none of us may be able to even afford to drive out of our neighborhood; much less down to WDW. There are more important things in life.