New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[squirrlygirl]

A lightbulb just came on for me.....I've been reading all of these and none of it made sense and it finally fell into place. Let's see if I can say it outloud and have it make sense to anyone else.

You booked room 1A for the 1st - 7th. Nobody can get into room 1A until the 8th - so nobody arriving on the 5th will be in room 1A because your stuff is there. That room is totally locked up from booking until the 8th because you're there. It is out of inventory - does not exist as far as new bookings go. So the morning of the 8th is the first day that room is available for booking and that is the day you can call to book the rest of your days. That is also the first day any new arrivals have a shot at that room. Now people calling on the 2nd or 3rd might be getting a same size room as yours -and they may still be there on the 8th - but they are down the hall. It could be on the 8th that room 1A is the only room left of that size - but it IS open and available on the 8th because until your reservation was up on the 7th nobody else could get into it. So now you are competing with anybody who wants to arrive on the 8th - you could be competing for a smaller inventory of rooms because people may already be in the surrounding rooms, but there is at least 1 room available because you had it out of inventory until that morning.

Did that help anybody - or am I the only one??

I had the same lightbulb a few pages back, but with "Joe ". But apparently "Joe" is being told he can call back on day 2 to get the 8th, whereas the other family can't start booking yet unless they also want to roll their reservation like Joe is. Which means that there is no disadvantage to anyone...if you called day-by-day before, now you do it a week earlier and roll...so how is this much different? If you didn't call day-by-day before, then there really isn't much change to you. But I don't think much of this thread is based in concrete thinking but rather emotions

If MS really did this to cut down on calls then they'll enforce the requirement that you can't add day 8 until the 11+7 window opens up for it.

But I guess I'm still a bit shocked that it's apparently so highly important to so many people in DVC that you get to stay in a certain room in a certain resort on a certain day or the world falls apart... if that's the case, wouldn't it be easier to own a timeshare that guarantees you a certain room at a certain resort on certain days?

 

[zulaya]

squirrlygirl, I don't think people want a specific room on a specific day.

I believe they are using the terms Room 1A, etc. to show how availability can play out with this new policy. Specifically, how people can book rooms before you are allowed to if you are checking in later in a week than they are and how that affects how many rooms are available to you when it's your turn to call.

 

[squirrlygirl]

If you don't care about a specific room on a specific day, then you have no reason to be upset.

Personally I think if family A starts their vacation earlier, it would be unfair for family B to scoop in and steal a day in the middle of their reservation, anyway. Which means I think family B has no reason to be upset. If the problem is that family A is rolling their reservation, then I guess you can roll, too, if it's that important So like I said, that's not any different than before.

 

[robinb]

Some other reasonable and logical moves that would greatly reduce calls to MS, reduce costs, and solve many of the problems already brought up:

1) Any change requires a cancellation, and rebooking based on availability
2) Any cancellation incurs a penalty of some sort (either $ or points)
3) Dining reservations must be made thru WDW-Dine, not MS.
4) Eliminate the 7 day maximum part of the new policy

None of those changes would affect me, but I suspect they would upset many, even though IMO they are reasonable and logical!

None of them would effect you? You have NEVER canceled a day or more off your reservation? I just canceled a day a couple of weeks ago when our cruise dates were finalized. I would be VERY upset if I had to cancel and rebook or I would be penalized for making the cancellation before the 31-day mark. So yeah, I would pretty much HATE 1 & 2 ... they are like using a baseball bat to kill a gnat and turning the loophole into a noose for DVC members. As for 3, I would be annoyed even though I usually do use WDW-DINE anyway. I'm OK with 4 ... if they're going to change the reservation process anyway then they should allow for reservations up to 30 days which is the maximum IIRC.

 

[zulaya]

Maybe not a specific room, like room 161 at the Beach Club Villas, but a specific type of room for your dates.

For example, there are only 25 of the 2 bedrooms with 2Q in the 2nd bedroom at BCV. For some people, it's important to have 2Q instead of the queen and sofabed.

With this example, and the limited number of units that there are for this category, it is conceivable that 25 other people have called MS the week before you can ~ because their check-in dates are before yours and they can reserve up to 7 days at a time.

So 25 other members could have made 7 days worth of reservations in the 2BR-2Q units at BCV, which would include your check-in date.

Meaning that when you call 11 months from your check-in date, and ask for a 2BR-2Q at BCV, all of that type of unit could be reserved on your check-in date and you could not make the reservation you planned on.

Many people are concerned that for these types of high demand units, and for certain times of year, that this new policy will mean that before they even can make their 11 month call, that their will be no rooms available that fit their plans.

 

[jdg345]

There is always the law of unintended consequences. The logical approach for DVC is to make each change a cancellation and rebooking, I suspect it'll take them a while to have this consistently enforced at MS. But in the worst case scenario for DVC, you've reduced any stay of 7 days or longer to a single call and reduced the total number of day by day calls significantly. Certainly if they allow day by day modifications some will go against the intent of the rule and ultimately force a modification. The likely should increase the length on can reserve to 10 or 14 days as well but we'll see on that one.

As I've said several times, this is a reasonable and logical move on DVC's part, now lets see how they handle it. Ultimately DVC has to get a backbone on such matters to make any rule truly work.

I think this would be tough to do, as it would limit the flexibility of the program, which is something that they regularly market to members and potential members. It would affect those that book at 11 months just about every time if they are traveling via air as most airlines wont let you book as far in advance as DVC does. If these folks are forced to deal with a cancel/rebook, then they are likely to stay offsite a night or be forced to eat points. Either option cuts into the 'save money' marketing of DVC.

This also wouldn't affect the spec renter advantage of being able to book 7 days in a block and making the whole thing available on ebay. Regardless of how it's done, either walking or adding on at day-8, these folks have the highest chance of getting the most rooms for Christmas and NYE in one of two fells swoops. That said, I know you feel that spec renting is someone's full right of membership ... I'm just throwing this out there.

Something I don't understand though, regarding your stance on spec renters, is that DVC has said that they frown upon such things and have imposed some sort of system to flag accounts. But above, you say DVC should create rules to prevent those that go against the spirit of the rule and continue to book DBD. Isn't the spirit of the rule that spec renting is not allowed?

 

[AKV707]

A lightbulb just came on for me.....I've been reading all of these and none of it made sense and it finally fell into place. Let's see if I can say it outloud and have it make sense to anyone else.

You booked room 1A for the 1st - 7th. Nobody can get into room 1A until the 8th - so nobody arriving on the 5th will be in room 1A because your stuff is there. That room is totally locked up from booking until the 8th because you're there. It is out of inventory - does not exist as far as new bookings go. So the morning of the 8th is the first day that room is available for booking and that is the day you can call to book the rest of your days. That is also the first day any new arrivals have a shot at that room. Now people calling on the 2nd or 3rd might be getting a same size room as yours -and they may still be there on the 8th - but they are down the hall. It could be on the 8th that room 1A is the only room left of that size - but it IS open and available on the 8th because until your reservation was up on the 7th nobody else could get into it. So now you are competing with anybody who wants to arrive on the 8th - you could be competing for a smaller inventory of rooms because people may already be in the surrounding rooms, but there is at least 1 room available because you had it out of inventory until that morning.

Did that help anybody - or am I the only one??

That makes perfect sense to me. Well written! The more I think about this, the more I like it. All this really does imho, is eliminate the day by day bookings. When we did that, wasn't that the the same as booking by check in date? I really think that this will work and will be fine.

Good work mom3sonstt!

 

[jdg345]

Got this reply to my email.

I will be out of the office until Tuesday July 1, 2008. If you need anything prior to my return you may contact Cameron Bayly 407-824-5318
Jim M Lewis

It was a good time to go.

To the email address I posted? I'd forward your note to Cameron too. Let me know if you need that addy as well or if it is listed.

 

[jdg345]

Some other reasonable and logical moves that would greatly reduce calls to MS, reduce costs, and solve many of the problems already brought up:

1) Any change requires a cancellation, and rebooking based on availability
2) Any cancellation incurs a penalty of some sort (either $ or points)
3) Dining reservations must be made thru WDW-Dine, not MS.
4) Eliminate the 7 day maximum part of the new policy

None of those changes would affect me, but I suspect they would upset many, even though IMO they are reasonable and logical!

Or they could go back to DBD booking based on Checkout Date which would remove the need to create a bunch of more and different more complicated rules and regulations. Then they could focus on an online booking system which would cut down calls to MS. It's likely that those that do DBD would be more likely to book online as it's should be a faster solution anyways.

 

[squirrlygirl]

Maybe not a specific room, like room 161 at the Beach Club Villas, but a specific type of room for your dates.

For example, there are only 25 of the 2 bedrooms with 2Q in the 2nd bedroom at BCV. For some people, it's important to have 2Q instead of the queen and sofabed.

With this example, and the limited number of units that there are for this category, it is conceivable that 25 other people have called MS the week before you can ~ because their check-in dates are before yours and they can reserve up to 7 days at a time.

So 25 other members could have made 7 days worth of reservations in the 2BR-2Q units at BCV, which would include your check-in date.

Meaning that when you call 11 months from your check-in date, and ask for a 2BR-2Q at BCV, all of that type of unit could be reserved on your check-in date and you could not make the reservation you planned on.

Many people are concerned that for these types of high demand units, and for certain times of year, that this new policy will mean that before they even can make their 11 month call, that their will be no rooms available that fit their plans.

Thank you. That makes my point perfectly.

Me? I would be fine moving my check-in day. Starting my vacation earlier. Dealing with a different unit. Booking elsewhere and waitlisting.

But thinking it's not FAIR that someone else gets to stay where I want when I want? Nope. No man is an island and all that.

Having flexibility, which DVC does, means giving up a bit of control.

 

[jdg345]

A lightbulb just came on for me.....I've been reading all of these and none of it made sense and it finally fell into place. Let's see if I can say it outloud and have it make sense to anyone else.

You booked room 1A for the 1st - 7th. Nobody can get into room 1A until the 8th - so nobody arriving on the 5th will be in room 1A because your stuff is there. That room is totally locked up from booking until the 8th because you're there. It is out of inventory - does not exist as far as new bookings go. So the morning of the 8th is the first day that room is available for booking and that is the day you can call to book the rest of your days. That is also the first day any new arrivals have a shot at that room. Now people calling on the 2nd or 3rd might be getting a same size room as yours -and they may still be there on the 8th - but they are down the hall. It could be on the 8th that room 1A is the only room left of that size - but it IS open and available on the 8th because until your reservation was up on the 7th nobody else could get into it. So now you are competing with anybody who wants to arrive on the 8th - you could be competing for a smaller inventory of rooms because people may already be in the surrounding rooms, but there is at least 1 room available because you had it out of inventory until that morning.
Did that help anybody - or am I the only one??

I believe all of that is completely correct. The big issue here is that you are competing for a smaller inventory of rooms, so there may only be that one room available. Of course, based on your same reasoning, this should be pretty easy to get around and, in effect, guarantee LOS beyond 7 days once you are able to grab the first 7 -- assuming you are planning on keeping the same room type and resort.

 

[jdg345]

But wait... that room 1A could be booked for night 8 by another family the very next day when they book a studio for arriving day 2 and extending 7 nights. So technically room 1A can be unavailable on day 8 the very day after the first booking is made by next family for 7 nights.

I state room 1A because that studio will be available by night 8, since family 1 can't book the night 8 until 7 nights later.

I don't think it's based on the room a family is occupying, but more based on available studio in the resort.

confused?

I think there may be some variability to it ... in fact, there would have to be. If not, why couldn't they guarantee a particular view at booking and why is there typically such a hassle with room ready, etc? If they know what unit you're in from the time you book, they should be able to give you that info then. I think the issue is that they do know your room assignment from booking, but it's just a random room that the system pulls -- they have no way to select a particular unit. Then, you have FCFS to any and all other rooms available on your arrival day.

 

[jdg345]

Just thinking here –

Family A book a unit for June 1st to June 7th but want a further 5 nights until June 12th

Family B book June 6th to June 12th, they cannot get 6th or 7th as booked by family A but can get nights 8th to 12th and waitlist for the first two nights.

Family A ring back to book 8th to 12th but find the entire time has been booked so have to waitlist the entire 5 nights as one block!


Am I getting this right, I have done this in simple terms but if it is multiplied what happens are blocks of dates not available to some families so in the end they cancel all their booking and go elsewhere??

Claire

If they are booking 11+7, Family-B cannot waitlist those two days and book the next 5. They can waitlist the first day. Call the next day, waitlist that day, and then, if the room is available on the third day, book up to the next 7 days. The limits to the 11+7 booking appear to be:

Room needs to be available Day-1 and for all days forward.
Same Room Type/Category
Same Resort

 

[dianeschlicht]

Just an FYI to something we talked about pages back. I did resend my email using james.m.lewis@disney.com, and It did NOT get returned!!! That means it must have gone through. Now I doubt he'll ever see it, but at least someone will!

 

[jdg345]

I had the same lightbulb a few pages back, but with "Joe ". But apparently "Joe" is being told he can call back on day 2 to get the 8th, whereas the other family can't start booking yet unless they also want to roll their reservation like Joe is. Which means that there is no disadvantage to anyone...if you called day-by-day before, now you do it a week earlier and roll...so how is this much different? If you didn't call day-by-day before, then there really isn't much change to you. But I don't think much of this thread is based in concrete thinking but rather emotions

If MS really did this to cut down on calls then they'll enforce the requirement that you can't add day 8 until the 11+7 window opens up for it.

But I guess I'm still a bit shocked that it's apparently so highly important to so many people in DVC that you get to stay in a certain room in a certain resort on a certain day or the world falls apart... if that's the case, wouldn't it be easier to own a timeshare that guarantees you a certain room at a certain resort on certain days?

As Doc posted earlier, even if they enforced not being able to call for Day-8 until Day-8, there are several ways around that. They didn't reduce DBD, they just pushed it a week or more earlier. I say more, because folks might decide to book several days before their real arrival date to make sure they can get a jump on those arriving that day and/or any spec renters. Of course, with that logic, where does it end? Do you, in essence, start booking December 2009 now? Yuk.

And, I think the issue is that DVC tells you to buy where you want to stay. Those with smaller contracts, who bought where they wanted to stay, will be effectively locked out of where they want to stay when they want to stay there by those with larger point banks. Of course, some would argue that if you have more points and pay higher dues, then it should be to their benefit. However, it would then be impossible for those same people to argue that everyone is now on 'more equal footing'.

Put another way:

How would you feel if another DVC family picked up the reservation you wanted because they called every day, DBD, and spent time and effort on the phone to get what they wanted.

I would feel okay with that ... if I didn't put in that effort and waited ... well ... then, I guess I didn't want it bad enough. Too bad for me.

How would you feel if a spec renter picked up 20 weeks and tied up 20 rooms so that they could rent them for profit and because of this, you were unable to get your rooms?

Sure, they could always do the same thing before, booking DBD; however, DVC just made it pretty easy for them to look up those 20 room weeks in a key time. And DVC made it really easy for them to extend Christmas Stays to include NYE. (I doubt very much that those arriving between Christmas and NYE are going to have an easier time with the new system). The old way, the spec renter might still get several weeks, sure ... but if they got pushed out of a one of their 7 days by someone else calling quicker than they did, they would likely release the other 6 days. You can't really rent a reservation with a move/hole in it. A DVC family might just pick up a room somewhere else in a less desireable location and move that one day. You should be able to find A room at 11 months ... it's just now that you might not be able to find a particular category at 11 months for your stay during key times.

 

[jdg345]

Just an FYI to something we talked about pages back. I did resend my email using james.m.lewis@disney.com, and It did NOT get returned!!! That means it must have gone through. Now I doubt he'll ever see it, but at least someone will!

You might get an Out Of Office Auto-Reply.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

The more I think about these new booking guidlines the more of a headache I get. I guess I'll know for sure if it's a big deal or not for me in mid-September when I try to book a 1br at AKV for mid-August 2009 at my 11 month window. If I can book a 1br for 5 nights great.

This new system does have me rethinking whether or not it will be worth my while to a do a small add-on at another resort in the future. Even with banking and borrowing for a trip with 11 month booking priority once every 3 years, with this new reservation policy the add-on may have to be larger than I previously thought (enough to include weekend point charges) to make it worth doing.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I agree.

I have now written twice suggesting that there be no limitation on the length of the reservation - since that limit is already set by the points available and the reservation wanted by the member.

The first suggestion email was met with the canned response posted a number of times and addressed none of the comments I made. I sent a reply to that message requesting that someone actually take the time to read the email rather than just respond with the stock reply. Hopefully someone will take the time to reply after reading the email.

I don't really care what rules MS puts in place, I just want consistency in the manner in which they are applied. DVC has had, IMO, a horrible record regarding the application of their own policies - both at MS and at the resort level. Some examples of this are the OKW point chart reallocation for 1996, the "room ready" policy, faxing requests, banking, transfers, holding account and now the inconsistent explanations given by MS about the recent policy change.

Doc, I agree, and I sent back a similar response when I got the canned email twice. I have not recieved a third response as yet. Also, I was frustrated by not getting the email to go through to Jim Lewis, so I sent a hard copy yesterday. I also did the email using James.m. etc, and that one did NOT get returned, so perhaps they did indeed receive that as well.

IF we could book our entire 10-12 night trip with one call at the beginning of the 11 month window, I would be satisfied, but it still doesn't solve the problem of available units being booked ahead for some of those high demand-low available things like concierge etc.

 

[dianeschlicht]

The more I think about these new booking guidlines the more of a headache I get. I guess I'll know for sure if it's a big deal or not for me in mid-September when I try to book a 1br at AKV for mid-August 2009 at my 11 month window. If I can book a 1br for 5 nights great.

This new system does have me rethinking whether or not it will be worth my while to a do a small add-on at another resort in the future. Even with banking and borrowing for a trip with 11 month booking priority once every 3 years, with this new reservation policy the add-on may have to be larger than I previously thought (enough to include weekend point charges) to make it worth doing.

Yes, I feel the same way. I am now pretty sure I'm not going to have a lot of success getting concierge again. Now I wish I had done a bigger add-on at AKV, but I really don't want the additional maintenance, so it is what it is.

 

[jdg345]

Doc, I agree, and I sent back a similar response when I got the canned email twice. I have not recieved a third response as yet. Also, I was frustrated by not getting the email to go through to Jim Lewis, so I sent a hard copy yesterday. I also did the email using James.m. etc, and that one did NOT get returned, so perhaps they did indeed receive that as well.

IF we could book our entire 10-12 night trip with one call at the beginning of the 11 month window, I would be satisfied, but it still doesn't solve the problem of available units being booked ahead for some of those high demand-low available things like concierge etc.

I think 10-12 nights is unlikely for them to allow as it would essentially allow anyone booking the 19th of December to lock up Christmas and NYE in one shot. Using the rolling method, they could lock up the days way before that. I don't even want to think of what the hold times would be the 19th -- which is why I figure folks will call in several days prior to keep those people at bay. Part of the issue with the new system is that I believe it will lead to people booking lots of days they don't need in an effort to get what they really want. With DBD, the only people calling where the people that really wanted those days. It becomes a mess.