New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[LisaS]

the first 3 nights of their reservation could be at one resort and the next 4 nights at another. Or some other combination of two resorts for 7 days. Can't that 7 night vacation be booked all on the 11 month date prior to the first night? As far as I know, there's no requirement that all 7 nights are at one resort. That would easily allow for some nights to be booked when I call for my reservation but other nights to be open.

I would say no because those are two separate reservations. They could book the first reservation (for 3 nights) 11 months in advance of check in. Three days later they could call to book the second reservation, again at 11 months prior to check in. You might view it as 7 nights at WDW but to the reservation system, those are two different reservations (one for 3 nights at Resort A, the other for 4 nights at Resort B) with two different check-in dates, two different confirmation numbers, etc.

It was no different under the old system. You could call 11 months from checkout for the first reservation to book those 3 nights but you could not book the 4-night reservation at that time.

 

[RobDoc]

the first 3 nights of their reservation could be at one resort and the next 4 nights at another. Or some other combination of two resorts for 7 days. Can't that 7 night vacation be booked all on the 11 month date prior to the first night? As far as I know, there's no requirement that all 7 nights are at one resort. That would easily allow for some nights to be booked when I call for my reservation but other nights to be open.

You can't have a single reservation involving two different resorts - that would be two separate reservations and they certainly could not be made from the same contract at 11 months.

In this case, the check-in date would be different for the later reservation and could not be reserved until 11 months from that date.

If you want a reservation at VWL for May 23 - that could have been reserved today, but you could not make a reservation at BCV (or any other resort) for May 26 when calling today. You'll need to wait until June 26 to make that reservation.

 

[jdg345]

I am not a fan of this new waitlist policy either.

So what does this mean? Let's say you have a reservation of Dec 1-8 and you want to add Dec 9, but it's not available.

Does this mean you won't be able to waitlist for that extra day?

Does that mean that you would have to cancel your ENTIRE original reservation and waitlist for the whole thing, because one day is not available? Or would you just call back all the time, thereby defeating the purpose of this new policy which is to keep members off the phone to MS?

The beauty of day-by-day waitlisting was just that...if you only needed an extra day here or there, you could do that. I think it worked well with the staggered checkouts that DVC has with the flexibility of its points system.

Yup, imo, you had a much better chance DBD. For the full length to trigger, someone had to cancel pretty much the same trip you wanted. With DBD, you might get a day from Jim, a day from Sally, and a day from Bob.

I don't think you'll need to cancel though, if you just need that extra day, they'll probably let you waitlist just that day. If you need 2 days, you'll need to waitlist both as a unit, not individually, etc.

 

[jdg345]

What does that mean though? If someone wants to make a reservation for 3 nights at AKV concierge and 4 nights at VWL, for example, does that count as one length of stay? What if the concierge isn't available, can you waitlist the concierge and still book the VWL?

Since these are two separate reservations (different resorts/categories), you would be allowed two waitlists -- one for each -- length of stay for both.

And what if nights 1 and 3 were available at AKV, you can't book those and waitlist for just the second night anymore? Why? What if I'm willing to take just the 1st and 3rd night and risk having to stay offsite for the 2nd night if a waitlist doesn't come through?

As I understand it, you can book 1 and 3 and waitlist for the 2nd; but, ONLY, if they were all inside your 11 month window. You can't waitlist based on your arrival date plus. In order to 'qualify' to book up to 7 days from your arrival date, the 1st day needs to be available and all subsequent days need to be available as well. Furthermore, all 7 days must be same room type and resort. AIUI.

 

[jdg345]

Two things:

First, I sent an email that basicly supported the changes in the reservation process, with a small caveat hoping that rules are in place to keep people from taking advantage of it (as I said before, just a short hold on the reservation to prevent someone from canceling day 1 to reserve day 8, etc). I got my response and it was the same canned "We are sorry for your disappointment...." Guess that shows how much they are reading their email...seems like they were somewhat prepared for the backlash.

Second, as for the waitlists, I don't take it that if you are missing one day, you must waitlist for the whole week. It seems that it is to address the day by day waitlist, which means if you are looking for a reservation for 11-20 to 11-24 your waitlist will be for that entire time if no rooms are available. if you can book 11-20 to 11-22 than your waitlist will just be 11-23-11-24, you won't be allowed to waitlist for those last two days individually like people have done in the past. This way your entire waitlist comes through or it doesn't.

I can see this being good because if someone waitlist DbD for an entire week and have the holes slowly plug in, but never gets the middle day, they are more likely to cancel their trip late. It allows for the person who only needs two of those days to be fulfilled as quick or quicker than the long waitlist, which is less likely to come through.

I disagree ... many people in this scenario would book that day at another resort and just waitlist for the day they need. If they get it, great, it swaps. If not, they have to move, but can still make their trip.

Spec Renters, on the other hand, would likely cancel since it's tough to rent a reservation with a move in it.

 

[RobDoc]

Nope, as I understand it, the day by day waitlist is to be no more. You can only waitlist your entire stay. So if the 26th is booked and she only wants to stay that day, yes ... she can waitlist the 26th. If her trip is longer, she isn't supposed to be allowed to waitlist for it until her departure date. And you cannot waitlist for Days 2+ if you cannot get Day 1. And if you get Day-1, in theory, you should be able to get 2+ based on previous posts indicating you cannot chop out the middle of a ressie.

You do not need to waitlist for your entire stay - you can make reservations for as many days as are available and use the waitlist for the rest.

The distinction is that in the past, if you needed 3 days to complete a reservation, you could use the "automatic daily waitlist" where each day would be added as it became available. The recent change just eliminates adding days one-at-time (unless you only needed one day) - MS will now only complete a reservation when all days are available at one time.

If you want 5 days - and day 1 and 4 are not available, you can still reserve days 2,3 and 5 as two separate reservations and MS will add days 1 and 4 when/if they become available using the waitlist.

 

[jdg345]

Could someone answer me this? We were planning a small add on at BLT (If it happens), but only for short occasional stays. In particular NY EVE for 2 or 3 nights. Kind of end the trip near MK after 4 or 5 days at BCV.

Does this pretty much eliminate a MK View (or any view) at BLT arriving NY EVE if you try to call at 11 months? Or is it possible to call for BCV and oh by the way...switch me to BLT for NY EVE and 3 days?

If so, they likely lost an add on from us-even though it was small.

TIA.

It depends on how many rooms and, of course, whether or not there is ultimately a BLT.

I think an MK View NY EVE at BLT is going to be tough under the new guidelines though ... I would consider that a premium ressie like CL, GV's, etc.

 

[jdg345]

I was told today by a MS supervisor that the maximum reservation that could be made 11 months from your check-in date was 7 days, and if you wanted additional days you had to call on the 8th day to book additional days. I don't think that is going to work out to well for someone trying to book a GV for 10 or more days for Christmas/ New Years.

As stated, there are ways around that. I was able to add the day no questions asked. Maybe it was a fluke (twice) and they are going to put a stop to it. But, even if they did, all you need to do on your second day:

Cancel Days 2-7. Now you have a 1 day ressie that is complete and inside your 11-month window by a day. Now create a new 7 day reservation rebooking day 2 and getting all the way through 8. Have MS link them. Done.

And since you can't waitlist if your first day is not available and since you're not cancelling the 1st day (yesterday), your cancelling shouldn't trigger any waitlists meaning that the rooms (2-7) would be right back available to you anyways. Problem solved, and you don't even need a bajillion points to be able to do it.

 

[jdg345]

the first 3 nights of their reservation could be at one resort and the next 4 nights at another. Or some other combination of two resorts for 7 days. Can't that 7 night vacation be booked all on the 11 month date prior to the first night? As far as I know, there's no requirement that all 7 nights are at one resort. That would easily allow for some nights to be booked when I call for my reservation but other nights to be open.

I've been told, consistently now, that all 7 days have to be available at the same resort in the same category. You cannot book a split stay 'in advance'.

 

[jdg345]

You do not need to waitlist for your entire stay - you can make reservations for as many days as are available and use the waitlist for the rest.

But it's an all-or-nothing waitlist, no?

The distinction is that in the past, if you needed 3 days to complete a reservation, you could use the "automatic daily waitlist" where each day would be added as it became available. The recent change just eliminates adding days one-at-time (unless you only needed one day) - MS will now only complete a reservation when all days are available at one time.

Correct, that's how I understand it as well. It's all or nothing now.

If you want 5 days - and day 1 and 4 are not available, you can still reserve days 2,3 and 5 as two separate reservations and MS will add days 1 and 4 when/if they become available using the waitlist.

But this is only true if Day-5 is at your 11 month mark. Otherwise, with Day 1 not being available, you couldn't book the +7 in advance and waitlist anything.

Assuming the whole trip is inside your 11 month window, then I agree, you can book Days 2-3 and 5 and then waitlist for days 1,4. The waitlist would only trigger if days 1 *AND* 4 were available at the same time. If just Day 1 or just day 4 were released, you would not get them.

I believe we're saying the same thing. It's just that the post you were replying to was based on a specific scenario. Sally couldn't waitlist for her first day if it isn't her last day because she wanted 6 more days in addition. Now, I wonder if MS will let you waitlist Day-1 and then when you call Day-2, if it's not available, your waitlist becomes Days1-2 as a group? I don't see why they wouldn't allow that.

Of course, if the whole point of this change was to reduce DBD calling for peak periods, then all they're doing is complicating things for nothing -- because people are still going to end needing to call DBD to add to their waitlist.

If the reason for this was to reduce calls, someone really didn't think this through at all.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

Nope, as I understand it, the day by day waitlist is to be no more. You can only waitlist your entire stay. So if the 26th is booked and she only wants to stay that day, yes ... she can waitlist the 26th.

Actually at this point, the 26th IS the only day in Sally's vacation. She called on the 26th and doesn't want anything earlier and CANT book anything later. This should be allowed under the current rules allowing WL-ing during your Home Resort Priority Period and it is not inconsistent with Doc's explnation of the change to the WL rules.

Would MS read her mind and know she also wants other nights and deny it based on that? Possibly. And we have no anecdotal evidence one way or the other because no one has reported calling MS and needing to WL the first night.

And you are right, Sally's WL won't come through when Joe cancels his first night. She will have to wait until Joe drops the 26th because he really wants to arrive on the 30th. Sally is grateful that no changes were made to the cancellation policy, so Joe didn't hold on to the nights he booked but didn't want for a month or more. The pixie dust fell on her quickly and her WL was confirmed a week or so after going on it.

Unfortunately, the reality is that Sally does want more nights and will call on the 27th and have to WL for that night as well. The elimination of DBD for WL may mean those WL will be linked together (is that even possible?) or worse, that her rogue WL for the 26th will be cancelled, sending her to the back of the line for her non-DBD 26/27th WL. Now she has to wait for Joe to cancel both nights and hope that someone else doesn't WL just for the 26th. Poor Sally.

-- Suzanne

 

[jdg345]

Actually at this point, the 26th IS the only day in Sally's vacation. She called on the 26th and doesn't want anything earlier and CANT book anything later. This should be allowed under the current rules allowing WL-ing during your Home Resort Priority Period and it is not inconsistent with Doc's explnation of the change to the WL rules.

Would MS read her mind and know she also wants other nights and deny it based on that? Possibly. And we have no anecdotal evidence one way or the other because no one has reported calling MS and needing to WL the first night.

And you are right, Sally's WL won't come through when Joe cancels his first night. She will have to wait until Joe drops the 26th because he really wants to arrive on the 30th. Sally is grateful that no changes were made to the cancellation policy, so Joe didn't hold on to the nights he booked but didn't want for a month or more. The pixie dust fell on her quickly and her WL was confirmed a week or so after going on it.

Unfortunately, the reality is that Sally does want more nights and will call on the 27th and have to WL for that night as well. The elimination of DBD for WL may mean those WL will be linked together (is that even possible?) or worse, that her rogue WL for the 26th will be cancelled, sending her to the back of the line for her non-DBD 26/27th WL. Now she has to wait for Joe to cancel both nights and hope that someone else doesn't WL just for the 26th. Poor Sally.

-- Suzanne

I think they'd need to WL the days together. If Sally tells MS she wants the whole week, they might tell her to call back tomorrow or at the end of the week to waitlist. I would think they'd allow her to WL the 26th, and then the next day WL the 27th, but these two would then be linked as a WL for 26,27 as a single unit, requiring both days to become available at the same time for it to trigger. Joe's walking of his reservation would continue to block Sally out.

It's a good thing this new system is an enhancement made to streamline things and make them less complicated.

 

[Dean]

In section 2.4 of the DISNEY VACATION CLUB MEMBERSHIP AGREEMENT, DVC is given the right to change the terms and conditions of the agreement and the rules and regulations (the original reservation procedures are attached as exhibit A); however, this section states the following: "Notice of any changes shall be disseminated to each Club Member.... at his last known mailing address PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF ANY AMENDMENT."

One thing to note is that each section stands alone in terms of changes and other rules. As I read the reservation procedures, the only notification requirement is by general publications and not timeframe is noted. The method of change and notification for each section (By-Laws, etc) could vary one from another.

No - you cannot call day-by-day after your initial call and change the original reservation. If you want more than 7 days to the original reservation, you'll need to wait until day 8 to add more days or make another reservation for another 7 days and cancel days from the first reservation.

There are ways to avoid this, but there is no question that you won't be able to make day-by-day changes to the original reservation until 11 months after the end of the dates for that reservation. MS has already addressed this possibility and will not allow daily changes, It would require cancelling the original reservation and rebooking the additional 7 days or cancelling days from the original reservation and making a new reservation - all based on availability.

One could call and make a new reservation for the days in question and possibly cancel the first if desired.

What were they thinking that this would make high-demand times easier? More people are going to have to waitlist and be disappointed, or angry. Is that what they want?

I doubt that's the case, esp if one can't change the reservation without a cancellation and rebooking. Overall I think most people are stressing unnecessarily but ultimately both we and DVC will have to see how it goes and it's possible there will be further changes if things aren't working as intended. It very well may reduce the chance of success for one person but increase it for another.

I think this is being way overblown and that most members will benefit in multiple ways including lower fees.

 

[Dean]

Scott has this about right, as convoluted as it may seem. If you read back about 450 posts you will see where this very loophole has been discussed, but if you are going to clamp down on the cancel-a-day/extend-a-day routine DVC must be careful about putting in place a cancellation policy that would hinder those who have a legitimate reason to cancel.

I just ask this: tell me what we can and can't do and I will work within those rules to make my reservations.

I agree with give me the rules and I'll worth within them. But I'll disagree that DVC needs to get involved in being judge and jury on who has a legitimate reason and who doesn't. They need to be cold, hardline and stick to the rules.

The deal with the Dining is different. It's well known that they don't release all tables or times at 180+10. At 180, there is more availability because more tables, in general, are released.

So it's a little apples and oranges, but I know what you are trying to say.

But they could release them all up front and it would be just as fair, IMO.

 

[DVC Grandpa]

My wife and I spend the month of February at the Beach Club Villas. In the past I have made those reservations by calling frequently. Under this new reservation system I would have to start booking at 11 months + seven days. And then again on the 8th day, 15th day and 21st day. What happens if Presidents Day weekend just short of one of those dates and I end up having to wait list. Would that wait list be for the entire week, or the month or only the day(s) unavailable? If I were unsuccessful in getting the wait list can I then cancel everything or is it cancelled for you?

If that happens my points will be history and I will use the maintenance fee $$$ to stay else ware, even if it’s Riverside where can cancel, change up until the last day and still not be penalized.

 

[Dean]

I was told today by a MS supervisor that the maximum reservation that could be made 11 months from your check-in date was 7 days, and if you wanted additional days you had to call on the 8th day to book additional days. I don't think that is going to work out to well for someone trying to book a GV for 10 or more days for Christmas/ New Years.

So be it if that ends up being the case. Actually at 11 months out it shouldn't matter. IF you do a 7 night reservation, you are tying up one unit for the entire time. That's one person that can't book under this policy and thus get the nights you need later. Thus if you reserve 7 nights out and need to add on (and assuming DVC sticks to the rules stated) the worst you'd be doing would be to compete with anyone else calling the same day for the same thing and you'd do a new reservation for the additional 3 days and link to the first. IF DVC allows you to add a day each day, you simply have to call in day by day for 4 days total for a 10 day reservation instead of 10 days of day by day phone calls.

 

[DVC Mike]

One thing to note is that each section stands alone in terms of changes and other rules. As I read the reservation procedures, the only notification requirement is by general publications and not timeframe is noted. The method of change and notification for each section (By-Laws, etc) could vary one from another.

Dean is correct.

Home Resort Rules and Regulations, Sec IV.3 -

DVCMC reserves the right to amend these Rules and Regulations, in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion. These changes may effect a Club Member’s right to use, exchange or rent the Club Member’s Ownership interest and impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of his or her Ownership interest and the appurtenant Club Membership. Club Members will be notified of any such changes through Member Services publications.

(emphasis mine)

Multi-Site POS, Sec 3b –

such changes could adversely affect their ability to secure reservations when and where they want them.

 

[jdg345]

So be it if that ends up being the case. Actually at 11 months out it shouldn't matter. IF you do a 7 night reservation, you are tying up one unit for the entire time. That's one person that can't book under this policy and thus get the nights you need later. Thus if you reserve 7 nights out and need to add on (and assuming DVC sticks to the rules stated) the worst you'd be doing would be to compete with anyone else calling the same day for the same thing and you'd do a new reservation for the additional 3 days and link to the first. IF DVC allows you to add a day each day, you simply have to call in day by day for 4 days total for a 10 day reservation instead of 10 days of day by day phone calls.

Sorry, but that just seems like it would be a silly solution for DVC considering that this whole thing seems to have been done to reduce DBD booking. Based on the available workarounds, they won't be reducing DBD booking; in fact, they may be making it worse as people will now begin DBD earlier and earlier in the hopes of jumping in front of someone who might be staying after them.

 

[Dean]

Sorry, but that just seems like it would be a silly solution for DVC considering that this whole thing seems to have been done to reduce DBD booking. Based on the available workarounds, they won't be reducing DBD booking; in fact, they may be making it worse as people will now begin DBD earlier and earlier in the hopes of jumping in front of someone who might be staying after them.

There is always the law of unintended consequences. The logical approach for DVC is to make each change a cancellation and rebooking, I suspect it'll take them a while to have this consistently enforced at MS. But in the worst case scenario for DVC, you've reduced any stay of 7 days or longer to a single call and reduced the total number of day by day calls significantly. Certainly if they allow day by day modifications some will go against the intent of the rule and ultimately force a modification. The likely should increase the length on can reserve to 10 or 14 days as well but we'll see on that one.

As I've said several times, this is a reasonable and logical move on DVC's part, now lets see how they handle it. Ultimately DVC has to get a backbone on such matters to make any rule truly work.

 

[dvc_john]

DVCMC reserves the right to amend these Rules and Regulations, in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion. These changes may effect a Club Member’s right to use, exchange or rent the Club Member’s Ownership interest and impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of his or her Ownership interest and the appurtenant Club Membership. Club Members will be notified of any such changes through Member Services publications.

People are using the above statement from the POS to justify the right of DVCMC to change the booking policy regardless of what the POS says. It's interesting to note that this statement is in the same section as the part that says any reallocation of points shall not change the total number of points for a given resort. That an increase for 1 day requires a decrease someplace else. So, does the statement above mean that DVCMC, in it's sole discretion, could raise the point requirements across the board without a corresponding decrease?