New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[zulaya]

tjkraz - I don't think it's necessarily that everyone believes that *they* will always get what they want calling day-by-day at 9am.

I think the meat of the matter, to me at least, is that the choice is now totally out of my hands. I could make the choice to call and *try* to fill all my dates day-by-day if I chose to. If I called at 9am and I got a slow CM or more people in front of me in the queue, that's the breaks. I did what *I* could to book my reservation.

This new policy takes that control out of a member's hands. You now have people booking a week in advance of your check in date...and there's nothing you can do about it.

That * possibility* of those circumstances happening, a realistic one in some situations that we've all already discussed, is where the problem lies.

I agree that for non busy times, not CL, no GVs, etc., this policy will likely be embraced in most situations. But for the others...it's just become very sticky compared to the previous policy.

I know that sometimes we all need to chew on new things and let them work themselves out, but we have had no official communication from DVC. That, too, is probably fuelling the speculation as well and could have been avoided if they were on top of communicating with the membership better.

 

[HayGan]

I've sent off my email. Since I own at AKV this will have a impact on my ability to book CL or value level (when and if we want it.) It does give an advantage to those owners who have enough points to play around. There will be some (professional) renters who will play the system to its full advantage. While I don't like it, there is nothing currently set up that prevents them from doing it.

I like the new policy but the loopholes have to be worked out somehow. Only time will tell how it will impact the general DVC population!

 

[jekjones1558]

I have no idea how all of this will play out. Because I love F&W and early December in a BW view, I have often used day-by-day booking. When I am substitute teaching that is not convenient, so at first blush the new system seems like it might be better, but I may very well be unhappy down the road. I would definitely be impacted if the new policy included rules about having to cancel and re-book if you drop days, since our lives are kind of complicated right now and I always seem to be juggling adjusted vacation plans. I know that there is potential for abuse, but I often wonder what percent of members are really "into" these kinds of policy details. I think that DISers are not a representative sample of the overall membership booking patterns. My guess is that many members haven't even heard of day-by-day booking and there is a goodly chunk who don't even fully understand banking and borrowing, much less the nuances of this new booking policy. Maybe we DISers are basically only in competition with one another where these policies are concerned. Bottomline, I am willing to wait and see. Life goes on, even if I don't get a BW view room.

 

[doconeill]

It's easy to say claim that's fair in theory, but it doesn't make a lot of sense when you have 2 or 3 members with incomplete stays because they are all holding dates the other needs (Member 1 has Monday and Wednesday, Member 2 has Thursday, Member 3 has Sunday and Tuesday.)

But each one at least had an equal chance.

Now, say I want the latter half of a week for Food and Wine. I will likely have NO chance because the room will likely have been booked by people taking the whole week. That is, unless I book the whole week myself, even though I have no intention of keeping the first few days.

I also agree we need to wait and see what the EXACT policy is. We only know what people have been told thus far, with regards to bookings. We have heard nothings about cancellations or changes (that I've seen).

Don't forget that the goal of a timeshare is 100% occupancy 100% of the time, not including maintenance reserve. Since our points systems allows flexibility in when we can book, there will always be more popular times than others - which will always result in demand exceeding supply.

 

[robinb]

If it turns out to be true that reservations over 7 days will be considered two reservations with two booking windows just wait until someone wants to book Christmas Eve (12/24) through New Year's Day (1/1). That's 8 days, so they could only book from 12/24 - 12/31 on the first call. What do you think the odds are that they will get 12/31 in one of the popular booking categories when they are finally able to call for it? Slim or none?

 

[Kathi OD]

I'm happy with the new change. It puts me on equal footing with those who always call day-by-day to get what they want. Calling at 9am, every day for a week, is just not possible for me. It's not a question of not wanting to do it, it's just not an option for me.

 

[Dean]

Dean - I can't think of a way to make this not come out sarcastic, so my apologies in advance.

While I don't have a desire to book AKV concierge or NYE or Christmas week myself, I shudder to think what those members wanting those dates and/or units will feel when they read you think this change is "trivial" to them and not dramatic.

I do agree that we have to follow the rules as they are set. But this thread is about the discussion of the new policy and there are a lot of people, myself included, who don't think this policy was thought out very well and that there are problems with it versus the old system...even before you put spec renting in play.

As far as a few posters commenting how this policy will make it less stressful for them to not call at 9am...I think you'll find that it will be stressful, just in a different way. If you call at 9am to find that some of all of your dates are already booked in the unit you want, you could be stressed out for several reasons:

1. You already have those dates off work and now you have to see if you can change it
2. You have to waitlist right at your 11 month window for some or all of your dates
3. You have to consider changing unit size
4. Maybe you don't have enough points to change unit size or dates
5. You'll have to call back anyway to see what's going on once you decide what to do.

The list can go on and on, I'm sure.

My point here is that maybe DVC thinks this is reducing the so-called stress of calling day-by-day for those who deem it necessary (and yes, I know that AKV CL is one of those) ~ and it would save them money in calls to the 1-800 number ~ but in reality people are going to get stressed out over rooms being booked before they can call and will end up calling back more often to check on their waitlist or see what else is available....I think it will end up being a wash in terms of benefits for DVC and its members, but with a little more unfairness to the playing field added in.

Not a problem. IMO, it is a well thought out and long needed change. I have specifically stated they should make such a change several times over the years, I'm sure some long timers can vouch for that, esp Rob. I think the concerns are overblown but we'll see. The reality is that a day by day booking system is VERY expensive and I'm guessing the reason for this change was more to institute a de-facto minimum stay than anything else. That will allow DVC to streamline employees and reduce costs. It's also a change that will likely be needed to allow online bookings. I know that both aspects fly in the face of those that don't think of DVC as a timeshare and value the day by day booking options but such is life. I'm sure there will be a few minor issues but the benefits to the system and the members as a whole are likely to be overwhelmingly positive. The one question going forward is whether they allow changes without canceling and rebooking, my guess is they will not. But even if they do, given their track record of losing reservations when making changes, will you want to take the chance.

As a loose example. We just got back (yesterday) from a trip to Gatlinburg. I started out with 11 two BR untis and a 1 BR for 7 days each. But as we knew more who was coming and when they were coming, we narrowed down our choices. Ended up 9 units total with a 2 BR lockoff with the 1 BR Dlx side for 8 days and the 1 BR standard side for 5 days starting Fri. Had 4 two BR units for 7 days starting Sat. Had a 2 BR L/O for 4 days starting Sat. And had 3 two BR units for 2 nights only starting Sat. EVERY time I had to make a change it was subject to availability and when I changed dates on each and every reservation I had to take the chance I'd lose that specific reservation. Fortunately on the 8 or 9 times we did this I didn't lose a single day I needed. Total group 35 people with 34 or the 35 overlapping for 1-2 days. The only issue we had (small one overall) was that we had reserved specific units close together and one had to be moved about 100 yards down a steep hill from the others and it was the one family with small kids (1 y/o & 4 Y/O) and a mom by herself for the last night (dad had to return to work). We also had an exchange unit that we never touched and was only entered twice, to check the unit and raid supplies.

 

[CarolMN]

Not if demand exceeds supply.

One of the difficulties I have with this discussion is that everyone seems to believe that *they* will not be the person left without a room when booking day-by-day. In reality, if there are 500 rooms and 550 people on the phone 11 month out, 50 of them will not get what they want.

It's easy to say claim that's fair in theory, but it doesn't make a lot of sense when you have 2 or 3 members with incomplete stays because they are all holding dates the other needs (Member 1 has Monday and Wednesday, Member 2 has Thursday, Member 3 has Sunday and Tuesday.)

Under the new system, all you need is ONE ROOM available for your arrival date, and the next 7 nights are guaranteed. Done. Booked. Vacation confirmed.

There is some give-and-take in the new system, but I have to admit I'm warming up to the idea.

Keep in mind that the negative impact will ONLY be on the "specialty" categories during high demand time The vast majority of the time the policy will make no difference to those who book at 11 months. If you can get what you want, the booking policy makes no difference.

It is very possible that ONE standard view room will not be available at the BWV during early December when you call. Those rooms sell out on the first day of the window starting the week of Thanksgiving. Heaven help you if you want to arrive in the middle of the week or on a Thursday.

It's unlikely that a BWV owner who only wants to stay a few days in a BW or SV room over NYE will ever be able to do so unless a waitlist comes through.

Yes, the "specialty" rooms will still be full, but the chances of being the one in the room are not equal between members. It's based on the arrival date. Really puts anyone who wants to arrive on a Tuesday or Wednesday (better airfare) at a disadvantage, IMHO.

The new policy gives members who only want to make one call an advantage they did not have under the old system. They could always just make one call under the old system too and for everything except the "specialty" categories, they would get what they want if they called at 11 months. Now they have a leg up on getting the "specialty" categories. I still think that is wrong. Too bad DVC didn't address the unnecessary day by day calling with education!

I doubt DVC will back off on this change. They don't care who is in the rooms. It will decrease MS costs if it works as they intend (and thus increase their bottom line). IMHO, the policy will upset only a relatively small subset of owners. It won't impact owners at SSR, OKW or AKV at all IMHO and may not have much of an impact for BCV, VWL or VB either.. DVC will have no trouble living with that.

 

[doconeill]

I'm happy with the new change. It puts me on equal footing with those who always call day-by-day to get what they want. Calling at 9am, every day for a week, is just not possible for me. It's not a question of not wanting to do it, it's just not an option for me.

Does it really change anything? You still would be competing with people - except now its all the people with the same check-in day. That is perhaps less people, yes...but there are already less rooms in inventory available because of the people who had check-in dates before you.

So 9am still becomes a free-for-all.

 

[robinb]

For those of you who do not feel that this change effects you (yet), are you considering buying a small add-on at BLT? Are you dreaming of a Magic Kingdom view?

 

[CarolMN]

I'm happy with the new change. It puts me on equal footing with those who always call day-by-day to get what they want. Calling at 9am, every day for a week, is just not possible for me. It's not a question of not wanting to do it, it's just not an option for me.

You could still make just one call under the old system. There are only a few situations that required day by day calling.

For example, I only made one call to book my standard view at the BWV for our late April/early May trip. No problem.

 

[Dean]

Other questions they'll need to answer officially and consistently -

1. If the first day I want isn't available, can I still reserve the next days (up to 7) that are available? If I can't, can I go on the waitlist on the first day I call for my whole vacation? What if my vacation is more than 7 days?

2. What if the first day and days 4 -5 are available, but not days 2 & 3? Can I reserve the days that are available? Can I waitlist for just the days that are not?

3. etc. ( I can think of many, many more)

I also think the change makes it easier for those who rent speculatively.

DVC is rarely consistent on information. I can assure you that if day 1 is not available, you can't book the following days unless you're inside the 11 month window. For #2, you'll likely not be able to book past any unavailable days but at 11 months out from the first day, this should not happen, it could only happen one the days in question are inside the 11 mo window.

This new policy takes that control out of a member's hands. You now have people booking a week in advance of your check in date...and there's nothing you can do about it.

Not really. You have the option of calling earlier also if you know that will affect your chances of success.

 

[Kathi OD]

You could still make just one call under the old system. There are only a few situations that required day by day calling.

For example, I only made one call to book my standard view at the BWV for our late April/early May trip. No problem.

Of course I know you could still make one phone call under the old system, that's how I have to book my reservations. But now I don't have to wait until my checkout date to call for my whole reservation. Depending on when I was going, I might consider using one vacation day to make a ressie at 9am. Just couldn't do it every day if needed, because then there would be no days left to actually go on vacation.

 

[n2mm]

One phone call 11 months from my checkin day just does not work for me for 3 of my 4 trips a year. Since we go for 12 nights in May, 10 nights in August, and 12 nights in October, it will get complicated for us. So do I call and request a 7 night stay, then three days later call back, drop 4 days off of that reservation and now book a 7 night stay and link the 2 reservations together?? That would cover my 10 night stay. While sometimes it wouldn't matter, but it will matter when it comes to my 12 night stay in a standard room at the BWV in October. For the harder to get accommodates, this will be complicated even to us using our home resort 11 month advantage. We have 6 trips planned for 2009 and while January is done, I really don't look forward to booking the rest of them. Hopefully more clarification will come before September when I need to book my spring trip at the 7 month window. I'm so glad I don't stay during big holidays (Easter/Christmas/NYE), but was hoping to stay at the BWV during early December next year after a cruise. Guess I'll need a strategy to figure out how to get my SV BWV room at the 11 month window. In the past I did call D-B-D for the harder places during the busier times.

 

[bookwormde]

Just as a point of reference for the full week renters, would you have been happy if DVC had done away with day by day (or partials) and left the policy that you could not reserve until the final day of your reservation. This would give is shorter visit members the same advantage over you and you now have over us.

Yes I know this only applies to people who book high demand times or units but I am one of those who wants to book an OKW GV

bookwormde

 

[alldiz]

Actually, you do know that your chances were better under the old system. You had the same chance as everyone else at 9 am 11 months before your check out date. Now there are people who could have booked your desired room BEFORE you get a chance to call at all. That is the very definition of your chances being better before under the old system.

You still have people checking in before you and people on the phone before you. I don't think there will be that much of a problem....there will still be the same amt of members vying for the same rooms

Not if demand exceeds supply.

One of the difficulties I have with this discussion is that everyone seems to believe that *they* will not be the person left without a room when booking day-by-day. In reality, if there are 500 rooms and 550 people on the phone 11 month out, 50 of them will not get what they want.

It's easy to say claim that's fair in theory, but it doesn't make a lot of sense when you have 2 or 3 members with incomplete stays because they are all holding dates the other needs (Member 1 has Monday and Wednesday, Member 2 has Thursday, Member 3 has Sunday and Tuesday.)

Under the new system, all you need is ONE ROOM available for your arrival date, and the next 7 nights are guaranteed. Done. Booked. Vacation confirmed.

There is some give-and-take in the new system, but I have to admit I'm warming up to the idea.

This is what I'm thinking....

Members should keep how those owners feel in mind when they consider a small add-on at BLT. How far is 50 points really going to go if you want to book at MK view studio during an even slightly busy time?

I dont' understand.....you have 150 pts with a 3yr contract regardless when you book?...Unless your suggesting booking extra days for no reason.....which is ridiculous....these people are "rule breakers" to any policy they don't like in life.

tjkraz - I don't think it's necessarily that everyone believes that *they* will always get what they want calling day-by-day at 9am.

I think the meat of the matter, to me at least, is that the choice is now totally out of my hands. I could make the choice to call and *try* to fill all my dates day-by-day if I chose to. If I called at 9am and I got a slow CM or more people in front of me in the queue, that's the breaks. I did what *I* could to book my reservation.

This new policy takes that control out of a member's hands. You now have people booking a week in advance of your check in date...and there's nothing you can do about it.

That * possibility* of those circumstances happening, a realistic one in some situations that we've all already discussed, is where the problem lies.

I agree that for non busy times, not CL, no GVs, etc., this policy will likely be embraced in most situations. But for the others...it's just become very sticky compared to the previous policy.

I know that sometimes we all need to chew on new things and let them work themselves out, but we have had no official communication from DVC. That, too, is probably fuelling the speculation as well and could have been avoided if they were on top of communicating with the membership better.

Exactly....DVC has not been great about communication to members

I've sent off my email. Since I own at AKV this will have a impact on my ability to book CL or value level (when and if we want it.) It does give an advantage to those owners who have enough points to play around. There will be some (professional) renters who will play the system to its full advantage. While I don't like it, there is nothing currently set up that prevents them from doing it.

I like the new policy but the loopholes have to be worked out somehow. Only time will tell how it will impact the general DVC population!

Like I said there is always people gaming whatever system is in place....But I do really think this helps the majority of DVC owners.

For those of you who do not feel that this change effects you (yet), are you considering buying a small add-on at BLT? Are you dreaming of a Magic Kingdom view?

again.....I'm not seeing any difference in how many points you own. The majority of owners call and will book the vacation they want...end of story.

One phone call 11 months from my checkin day just does not work for me for 3 of my 4 trips a year. Since we go for 12 nights in May, 10 nights in August, and 12 nights in October, it will get complicated for us. So do I call and request a 7 night stay, then three days later call back, drop 4 days off of that reservation and now book a 7 night stay and link the 2 reservations together?? That would cover my 10 night stay. While sometimes it wouldn't matter, but it will matter when it comes to my 12 night stay in a standard room at the BWV in October. For the harder to get accommodates, this will be complicated even to us using our home resort 11 month advantage. We have 6 trips planned for 2009 and while January is done, I really don't look forward to booking the rest of them. Hopefully more clarification will come before September when I need to book my spring trip at the 7 month window. I'm so glad I don't stay during big holidays (Easter/Christmas/NYE), but was hoping to stay at the BWV during early December next year after a cruise. Guess I'll need a strategy to figure out how to get my SV BWV room at the 11 month window. In the past I did call D-B-D for the harder places during the busier times.

Why wouldn't you just book your 7 night stay....then add on the few nights at the next date. Why would cancel anything.....just add on how many nights you need after the 7 nights you already have.
Kerri

 

[jdg345]

Okay, I think if everyone follows the plan in what I would say is a normal way, things wont really be different. BUT...if lots of folks try to "work the system" in the manner suggested earlier in this thread, there will be a HUGE negetive impact...mostly in spec renting.

For example: I called yesterday (6/21/09) and switched my 2 bedroom OKW ressie from 1/20/09-1/27/09 to an AKV savanna view 2 bedroom. Now, if I wanted to, I could have blocked the Conceirge level room that was available and booked it a week ahead of someone who wasn't calling until tomorrow to start their week there at the 11 month booking window. That just is NOT fair.

I think this change will likely make it easier for spec renters to grab weeks like Christmas and NYE.

 

[jdg345]

Not in any meaningful way, according to the information LisaS was given yesterday.

According to the rep she spoke with, you can book up to 7 nights from the day you originally call, but then additional nights are subject to the new 11/7 month window.

For instance, if you wanted the nights of March 1-10, you could first call on April 1st to book 3/1 to 3/7. The nights of 3/8 and forward can't be booked until 11 months from THAT date. So you would have to wait a week--until April 8th--to add to the reservation.

While we don't have anything in writing from DVC yet, this seems like an entirely logical approach to take. You don't get 11 months + 7 days from any date on the calendar to book. They are giving you the +7 from the time you make the first phone call, but subsequent additions are subject to the true 11 month window.

Those with enough points would be able to book the first 7 days, wait 3, and book the next 7 though. In fact, based on the PP, one could book 7, call in 3 days, change the first reservation to 3 days only (ending it) and then book the last 7 and link them -- no extra points needed. They've already allowed this -- it's another way to 'walk' a reservation forward.

For example:

Today: I book for 11 months + 7 days.
Tomorrow: I cancel the last 6 days (effectively making it a 1 day reservation) and then book 7 more days on a new ressie. Then I link them.
Day After: Rinse, lather, repeat.

 

[jdg345]

I agree.....let's just see how this plays out. I think the majority....like before will book just what they want....and we'll just save some stress with multiple phone calls

I still think it's likely you'll have many multiple phone calls.

I'm sure they were booking before....so I'll just have to wait and see. I just think this will make the majority of members lives a little easier...and less stressful. It sounded crazy and stressful before..Ok I got sun, mon tues, and Thurs....but I'm waitlisted for WED....who needs that stress.

Shouldn't really be any stress involved. You could always book SSR or OKW and then Waitlist somewhere else for the duration. If you got the whole period, it would auto-swap.

I really do think it is fairer for the majority of us who don't want to sit on the phone for a week at 9 am.....stressing out that one day in the middle of our vacation is unavailable.

Do you book day-by-day currently? If you're concerned that you might not be able to get a room at 9am with the old system (where you know there were rooms available), why are you not concerned with a new system that allows the potential for there to be absolutely nothing available before 9am.

Every rule has a loophole.....this board amazes me how fast they are pointed out Seriously....we'll just have to wait and see. I was going to use the day by day for the 1st time to book a Vero beach for the summer of 09. I'll never know if my chances are better before or now. I'll find out with the rest of us......but I'm willing to chance it with making only 1 phone call.
Kerri

Booking day-by-day isn't that difficult. The first day takes the longest ... the follow up days take only minutes as the LOS is noted in the first reservation.

 

[jdg345]

I don't agree. Your chances of getting a longer trip for a high demand option are likely better under this system, esp if you couldn't call right at opening time every day or forgot one day. But even if you could, it was not uncommon for you to be holding a day I needed and vice versa both wait listed for the other. It was simply a game of chicken. Certainly one that calls a few days before may get part of your days and lock you out, same for your reservation for the next person. This is one way of effectively instituting a minimum stay and IMO, the benefits to the system and the membership as a whole will far out weigh the specialty circumstances that are being discussed here.

But doesn't this now create an easy scenario for speculative renting? Let's say it's that much easier to get the time period you want, longer stay. What's to stop someone with a few thousand points from making 4, 5, or more reservations for that same period? With day by day, these folks too had to call day by day and try to grab what they needed. If this does make it easier, then these folks are going to have a field day and the only way to get prime weeks at prime locations will not be via DVC, it will be via eBay.