New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[bookwormde]

Let me see if I understand this

Robinb’s example dates were 10 month dates (were they intended to be 11 month dates?)

At 11+7 if your first day us unavailable you get none of the days and you are waitlisted for all the days (when do they start filling the waitlist ,11 month mark for each WL day?, before or after the phones open up?). You can basically check back the next day and if that day is available you can book that day and as many contiguous days as are available. Sounds like we are a good ways back to DBD for week long stays, except that you might pick up a chunk at a time.

If this was intended to be describing 11+7 then it is one more nail in the coffin of the short stay and special day members.

Just when I thought I had it figured out and it could not get any worse. I guess it could be worse (and will probably get that way) they could be allowing a third shot at the same reservation week before the shorter/special day members.

bookwormde

 

[jdg345]

Personally I think it would be a mistake to let this change alter the way one looks at DVC. Certainly I can see putting any purchase, or sale, on hold until you see where it shakes out but that's about it. It has been amusing seeing everyone panic, and scary thinking what we're see posted if there were real changes. I promise you that in a year there will be very few, if any, that think this is a big deal. OTOH, it's interesting being in the defending DVC camp as the rolls are usually reversed.

As for my divesting myself of DVC points, it really has nothing to do with this or any unhappiness with DVC. It's simply that I have more points than I currently need and have a number of other timeshare options. I have also been able to consistently exchange in to DVC when I did wanted to go. We're now empty nesters, our Kids are grown, though my daughter is 30 weeks pregnant (working & married thank goodness), and to a degree we're disney'd out. We'll be down in Oct staying at the Hilton by the outlets and again in Dec (hopefully if I can work out time off at work) where I have a 2 day AKV concierge reservation. Neither will likely involve park days unless we do the Sunrise Safari. It is also my opinion that the 2042 resorts are essentially at or near their peak value. I actually bought the 100 AKV points specifically to stay in the system after I sold the others and to have the member perks even when no staying on points. I did toy with the idea of only keeping 25 points though and selling everyone else though I could do that in the future if I chose since my 100 points is actually 4*25 point contracts.

Thanks for the details!

 

[jdg345]

If we assume that the DIS can serve as a crude proxy for the DVC membership, can one of you old timers help me out with a couple numbers:

Number of requests you've seen on the DIS for separate booking categories at SSR? ____

Number of requests you've seen on the DIS to switch from check-out day to check-in day? _______

(1) A lot, whole thread dedicated to it.
(2) Not many, a thread was dedicated to it awhile back the OP was chased out of 'town' for awhile.

Soo ... I guess we'll see booking categories at SSR very very soon, no?

 

[jdg345]

Let me see if I understand this

Robinb’s example dates were 10 month dates (were they intended to be 11 month dates?)

At 11+7 if your first day us unavailable you get none of the days and you are waitlisted for all the days (when do they start filling the waitlist ,11 month mark for each WL day?, before or after the phones open up?). You can basically check back the next day and if that day is available you can book that day and as many contiguous days as are available. Sounds like we are a good ways back to DBD for week long stays, except that you might pick up a chunk at a time.

If this was intended to be describing 11+7 then it is one more nail in the coffin of the short stay and special day members.

Just when I thought I had it figured out and it could not get any worse. I guess it could be worse (and will probably get that way) they could be allowing a third shot at the same reservation week before the shorter/special day members.

bookwormde

I think they meant 11 months ... prolly just picked the days for easy 'show-and-tell' I would think?

 

[Dean]

It wasn't MS that I talked with, but maybe Melony like Robin. It wasn't Joy (but she did call yesterday while we were at church).

My point was that only corporate or the voting rep were likely to have much input into the decision itself. Member Satisfaction, Member Admin, Accounting or MS might provide info but other than maybe one or two people combined from the entire group, are unlikely to have much direct input into any such a policy change. OTOH, the info they provide over time likely led directly to this change. As most people who deal with large groups can tell you, anytime the group gets too large, you really can't get any consensus or get anything done. I don't believe this was an off the cuff decision as some seem to and if I were DVC, I'd be offended at the remarks that they didn't think it through. While they may not have thought of every possibility (you never do), I feel confident they knew exactly what they were doing overall and did this for a reason. My guess is for two reasons, to reduce phone calls and allow less MS staff and to a degree, to encourage 7 day stays to cut down on housekeeping staff. Sounds like a good question to ask at the annual meeting in a few months.

 

[RobDoc]

I sent several emails to the Member Satisfaction team - and received a variety of replies - the last couple stated they were referring my comments to another "team".

On Friday, I had an email from the above mentioned Joy, who stated she had tried to call me to discuss my email(s) but had been unable to reach me. She provided a phone number to call her - but I had to leave a voice mail there. With no call Friday afternoon, I sent a email reply to her note explaining that we were at HH and would be leaving Sat. morning and I'd prefer not to take a call while on the road. No call on Sat.

We stayed in TN last night and left about 7:30am today for the 6 hour drive home. We stopped for some food about 10:30am and I had a cel phone call from Sheila - one the Member Satisfaction team members.

She was very polite and did seem to listen and took notes about my comments/concerns. She told me that this policy change was made due to "overwhelming member comments" about the need to reserve day-by-day and that the "average" stay is 4 nights - and they used that information when deciding the 7 night limit. One of my suggestions was that instead of creating an artificial limit why not use the only real limitation for any member - which is the number of points they have available to make a reservation. She asked if that meant a 14 night reservation should be the limit - and I replied that IMO there should be no artificial limit set - only limit the reservation by how the member wishes to utilize their membership via their points.

I also suggested that MS reps be more consistent in their explanations to members - she asked for an example and I told her that members were being told that they had to wait until 11 months from the 8th day to add to a reservation. She did state that members could add dates on a daily basis after the initial reservation was made - so I again mentioned about allowing those reservations to be made with one call.

I asked if they had any concerns about cancelling dates from the start of an existing reservation and she stated that there was a "team" that would be monitoring that situation.

I asked about the waitlist situation and got an answer much like RobinB reported above. Robin did a great job explaining that situation.

She thanked me for my time and said she would pass along my comments.

As I've stated earlier in this thread, I don't feel these changes will affect most reservations at all. IMO, day-by-day calls have been overused for most stays over the years - but I do feel that certain room types and certain dates may now be already unavailable at 9:00am - right at 11 months from arrival since others will have already reserved those prior to 11 months. These will include GV's at BWV and HH, Concierge villas at AKV, Standard and BW view villas at BWV and many villa types for certain dates throughout the year (Thanksgiving - New Years, F&W, etc.).

Stay tuned!

 

[mrdiscranky]

I don't believe this was an off the cuff decision as some seem to and if I were DVC, I'd be offended at the remarks that they didn't think it through. While they may not have thought of every possibility (you never do), I feel confident they knew exactly what they were doing overall and did this for a reason.

Here we disagree. The fact that there is a 7-day limit that doesn't limit anything, and that even you agree there will need to be some drastic changes down the road in order to make this work, leads me to believe they didn't think this through enough.

 

[DVC Grandpa]

... She told me that this policy change was made due to "overwhelming member comments" about the need to reserve day-by-day ...
Stay tuned!

I have been asked to take the survey after talking with MS many times but have never been asked on how bookings should be made. My questions involved the call, the knowledge of the individual I talked with etc.. I was just wondering if anyone reading this has been asked about “the need to reserve day-by-day”?

If I may paraphrase a local commercial – 90% of statistics can be made to say anything 50% of the time.

I wonder if this is one of those times?

 

[bobbiwoz]

I received a call from Sheila today because of the e-mail that I sent. When she talked about member input, I told her that I have not seen anyplace where I, as a member, have been asked to give input regarding the booking windows, banking deadlines or amenities in studios. I do sometimes get the phone survey after talking to member services, but that pertains to how we want to make reservations.

We just got back from a BC vacation at VB, and it was magnificent. We had 7 in the beach cottage and 6 more in 3 inn rooms. I truly hope we can have the experience again, but I do not have the points to book these accomodations for a Friday or Saturday night, so I wonder if the opportunity will come for us again. I have booked a few of my vacations day by day...the BC, concierge for 3 nights AKV, NYE '08 (YEAH!) the GV at BWV, and standard view GG rooms in December are all. I've left my VWL bookings in December to the end of the stay and it's worked well. Maybe I've been lucky...I have had bad luck in a reservation that was lost, I don't wear rose colored glasses, but I do like what we had better than this. It was fair. I do not think this present policy is.

I have yet to study the waitlist problems that have been mentioned here. Thankfully, I do not have any more major vacations to schedule until one for December '09. I hope that by the time January comes, I understand whatever system is in place.

I have also sent a few e-mails asking that members be able to book specific areas of SSR, and I have received at least one phone call from Sheila in the past regarding this. Sheila mentioned that DVC welcomes input from members, and she did not imply in any way that DVC is offended by members comments.

Bobbi

 

[jdg345]

My point was that only corporate or the voting rep were likely to have much input into the decision itself. Member Satisfaction, Member Admin, Accounting or MS might provide info but other than maybe one or two people combined from the entire group, are unlikely to have much direct input into any such a policy change. OTOH, the info they provide over time likely led directly to this change. As most people who deal with large groups can tell you, anytime the group gets too large, you really can't get any consensus or get anything done. I don't believe this was an off the cuff decision as some seem to and if I were DVC, I'd be offended at the remarks that they didn't think it through. While they may not have thought of every possibility (you never do), I feel confident they knew exactly what they were doing overall and did this for a reason. My guess is for two reasons, to reduce phone calls and allow less MS staff and to a degree, to encourage 7 day stays to cut down on housekeeping staff. Sounds like a good question to ask at the annual meeting in a few months.

If it was as well thought out and planned as you suggest, then there really is absolutely no excuse for how they rolled out the changes. Why not announce it like everything else they enhance? Banking changes were announced ahead of time, Internet in the Villas was announced ahead of time, Checkin changes at BCV were announced ahead of time. Etc.

 

[jdg345]

My point was that only corporate or the voting rep were likely to have much input into the decision itself. Member Satisfaction, Member Admin, Accounting or MS might provide info but other than maybe one or two people combined from the entire group, are unlikely to have much direct input into any such a policy change. OTOH, the info they provide over time likely led directly to this change. As most people who deal with large groups can tell you, anytime the group gets too large, you really can't get any consensus or get anything done. I don't believe this was an off the cuff decision as some seem to and if I were DVC, I'd be offended at the remarks that they didn't think it through. While they may not have thought of every possibility (you never do), I feel confident they knew exactly what they were doing overall and did this for a reason. My guess is for two reasons, to reduce phone calls and allow less MS staff and to a degree, to encourage 7 day stays to cut down on housekeeping staff. Sounds like a good question to ask at the annual meeting in a few months.

btw, 7 day bookings are encouraged; allowing us to drop/add makes that moot. I think maybe they wanted folks to add on to be able to book those days (if they thought it through); although those days would be dropped, you'd still have points to use.

And isn't housekeeping completely outsourced now?

 

[jdg345]

I sent several emails to the Member Satisfaction team - and received a variety of replies - the last couple stated they were referring my comments to another "team".

On Friday, I had an email from the above mentioned Joy, who stated she had tried to call me to discuss my email(s) but had been unable to reach me. She provided a phone number to call her - but I had to leave a voice mail there. With no call Friday afternoon, I sent a email reply to her note explaining that we were at HH and would be leaving Sat. morning and I'd prefer not to take a call while on the road. No call on Sat.

We stayed in TN last night and left about 7:30am today for the 6 hour drive home. We stopped for some food about 10:30am and I had a cel phone call from Sheila - one the Member Satisfaction team members.

She was very polite and did seem to listen and took notes about my comments/concerns. She told me that this policy change was made due to "overwhelming member comments" about the need to reserve day-by-day and that the "average" stay is 4 nights - and they used that information when deciding the 7 night limit. One of my suggestions was that instead of creating an artificial limit why not use the only real limitation for any member - which is the number of points they have available to make a reservation. She asked if that meant a 14 night reservation should be the limit - and I replied that IMO there should be no artificial limit set - only limit the reservation by how the member wishes to utilize their membership via their points.

I also suggested that MS reps be more consistent in their explanations to members - she asked for an example and I told her that members were being told that they had to wait until 11 months from the 8th day to add to a reservation. She did state that members could add dates on a daily basis after the initial reservation was made - so I again mentioned about allowing those reservations to be made with one call.

I asked if they had any concerns about cancelling dates from the start of an existing reservation and she stated that there was a "team" that would be monitoring that situation.

I asked about the waitlist situation and got an answer much like RobinB reported above. Robin did a great job explaining that situation.

She thanked me for my time and said she would pass along my comments.

As I've stated earlier in this thread, I don't feel these changes will affect most reservations at all. IMO, day-by-day calls have been overused for most stays over the years - but I do feel that certain room types and certain dates may now be already unavailable at 9:00am - right at 11 months from arrival since others will have already reserved those prior to 11 months. These will include GV's at BWV and HH, Concierge villas at AKV, Standard and BW view villas at BWV and many villa types for certain dates throughout the year (Thanksgiving - New Years, F&W, etc.).

Stay tuned!

Does anyone know where these overwhelming member concerns come from? Is there a page on the back of Disney Files or my Checkin Materials that surveyed how I felt about Day By Day Booking? If so, I must not have the right secret decoder glasses.

 

[Dean]

Here we disagree. The fact that there is a 7-day limit that doesn't limit anything, and that even you agree there will need to be some drastic changes down the road in order to make this work, leads me to believe they didn't think this through enough.

It's OK to disagree. The "enough" is the key I think in your post. I think they thought it through be didn't realize some of the ramifications or else MS is not carrying out the thoughts as yet. As I've noted several times, I think you'll see adjustments to the way you're seeing this currently implemented. The question is whether the current implementation is as was intended, we've seen MS not be on the same page as management at times in the past when changes occurred. I think it's stay tuned but I also think that some on this thread will be less pleased ultimately instead of more so.

The one issue that many seem to lose sight of is that both DVC and a large portion of the members, including on this BBS, see the need for DBD as a problem. The issue is whether they'll see the fix as any better.

 

[robinb]

If this was intended to be describing 11+7 then it is one more nail in the coffin of the short stay and special day members.

Just when I thought I had it figured out and it could not get any worse. I guess it could be worse (and will probably get that way) they could be allowing a third shot at the same reservation week before the shorter/special day members.

Oops. I did mean it to be 11 months (January) and not 10 months (February). Thanks for catching my mistake!

 

[bookwormde]

I guess we will see if it was just an oversight that the new system and its subsequent clarifications created such inequities for short stays and high demand days or if there was intent behind it, by seeing if they “fix it” since they have been told it is a major problem and have been given solutions.

bookwormde

 

[pyrxtc]

I thought of an idea to help people understand this new way to book.

You can't book beyond 7 days and not all people will book those whole 7 days. I know there are a lot mroe rooms than this but as an example of how it will still be fair (outside of the "walking" or hard to get weeks, which will still be hard to get)

Does this help anyone besides me?

I know it's crude but still.....

 

[kikiq]

Although I will say that those DVCers that bought DVC to use OKW GV, more than likely do have enough points for the weekends... the masses dont.

When we bought we did just that, went through the scenario of renting a GV for our family gathering. If we bank points and borrow points, we have enough for a week in a OKW GV. In fact, we had an opportunity to move to an AKV GV midweek to finish out our trip which would have included Fri/Sat nites. But the family decided to stay at SSR in 2 rooms.

 

[pyrxtc]

Also to add days at the end of your stay you can call on your day 6 since no-one else can book "your room" til the next day. Forget the day by day bookings. So for stays longer than 7 days, you still have to call multiple times but only every 6 days until your days wanted is done.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

I wrote to DVC with my concerns this morning and got a phone call within just a few hours from Sheila, a very nice member of the Member Satisfaction Team. She had read my email and listened to what I had to say. She said that she has heard more negative feedback than positive feedback regarding the new "enhancement".

My biggest issue, other than the fact that I think the enhancement is not a good step, was finding out about this change in the membership on a discussion board. They should have said that starting August 1 or September 1 we are making a change. As a point of comparision, I told her that as a member of AAA, I expect that there is towing service avaialble in case my car breaks down. Now, if the next time my car breaks down and I call AAA and ask for a tow truck and they tell me that due to overwhelming member demand they have decided to no longer offer that service, it's the same sort of thing. What I told her was that the value of my AAA membership would be diminished and the same has happened to my DVC membership. You have got to let the membership know when you are making changes or you can expect people to be upset.

So while it was nice to get a phone call, to me that is really nothing more than damage control on DVC's part. They know that they stepped in it and now they are just trying to figure out how much of it they can wipe of their shoes and how much of a smell or stain they are going to have to get used to.

 

[MagicalPins]

This new policy is completely unfair. I understand that is it annoying should someone call in day by day to book a vacation but that is what they should have to do if they want to travel during a certain time or get a specific type of room. Why should one member get treated differently by when they can book based on the number of nights. The old way was fair to everyone. You knew exactly when you were able to book the room you wanted and every member has equal access.