New passholder plan

[DebbieB]

Check out this post, there's alot of new info. This program may not be REPLACING AP rates but is IN ADDITION.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=840378&page=18&pp=15

 

[bicker]

This is the part that folks should note especially...

What both sales and guest services have told me is true but WE haven't seen it in writing just yet ...
this is NOT the end of the AP rate program as we know it, it's just a way to book and guarantee you don't have to be on the lookout for a discount, it will be applied for you automatically.
you will still be able to call in and book AP rates as they are released. They will just be subject to availability just as they always have been. Availability will be more limited b/c the rate will be applied to all "best available rate" guests first.

 

[UrsulasMyHero]

This is a way for Disney to add to the bottom line folks. By getting the money upfront, you're guarnteeing that the room will be filled. By asking the AP holders to do this thru the net, you're taking pressure off the Reservation Cast Members, by allowing them to assist people with lengthy vacations.

One of the biggest difficulties my friends who work at DRC keep getting are the passholders who book multiple rooms for multiple dates and then decide on which one to keep. Well, what this has done is limit the number of discounted rooms that everyone else can take advantage of, because when the AP holder chooses their place out of multiple reservations, those others that wer being held for them go back into the RACK RATE pool. So Disney is guarnteeing that this game isn't being played.... and there are discounts to go around.

All in all, it makes good business sense to Disney, but change is difficult, and people always avoid change. So I'm SURE that there is going to be resistance to it.

Of course you'll still be able to book with a CRO agent, but you just won't get the "BEST deal" out there.

 

[patsal]

Based on the updates to the original information,it kind of makes good sense in a way to prevent the multiple bookings/cancellations and the "wasting of CRO time". It really won't change the way I do things or the purchase of PAP's since I always considered AP rates a perk not a certainty. I always book what I can afford and if I have the opportunity to apply a discount all the better. The only thing I was guaranteed when I purchased my PAP was park admissions, any discounts were just perks that sometimes might be to my benefit. I have often not been able to get an AP room discount and just applied the AAA--sometimes it works out other times it doesn't.

 

[bigalpf1]

I would think you would want to reward your loyal customers, not prevent them from wanting to come! I don't have an AP, but I would think last minute trips would be one of the perks. Especially if you could find low airfares at last minute. What a shame....

You are absolutely right.

 

[bicker]

Indeed. Offering your regular customers a new way of getting their discounts does seem like a great way to reward them!

 

[BAST]

I have now read the updated version of this new AP program and it does not sound quite so bad. I think WDW is reacting to two things: (1) the much better economic times of today versus 2001- 2004 and (2) the explosion of internet users who find ways to save money on WDW trips.

I think of my own experience as an example. When we decided to start taking trips with our two kids (now 5 and 7) beginning about three plus years ago, we chose WDW. I am an internet saavy individual and I spent hours figuring out how to save money on these trips (August will be our 5th trip in a little more than three years). Mousesavers.com, this site, Allearsnet, etc were (and still are) great resources, but when I found these sites back in about January, 2002 they were not used by nearly as many people as they are today. Today more people than ever use these sites and try to take advantage of the savings options presented.

Also, 2002 was a different time. When we went in 2002 and 2003, WDW was reeling from low attendance and the post 9/11 tourism slump. When we went last August and in December, toursim was coming back and the parks were crowded. And this year it appears WDW is EXTREMELY crowded. Therefore, WDW simply does not need to give 35% to 40% AP discounts to attract people.

We will have to see what happens - but remember, there will be tourism slumps in the future and deep discounts will come back. Also, if this program really is to simply provide AP holders with another option than checking mousesavers daily to see if discounts are out taht day, and racing to get a room at those discounts, then WDW is providing a good option - although at a price.

 

[WannabeBelle25]

Hi there all, I am pretty new here but a long time poster at WDWMagic. I cant see this program working in the shape it is in now. With a few modifications, possibly. Lets go over some of the points:
1) Non refundable deposit - Not usually an issue for me
2) 120 or more days in advance booking- again not usually much of an issue for me
3) Guaranteed best rate- This is the biggest problem I have. I like to know what my vacation is going to cost up front. If I am giving Disney the courtesy to adhere to all of the other rules and limitations of this plan, they should be giving the AP discounted rate IMMEDIATELY, not when and IF it comes out which brings me to my next point:
4)$50.00 per modification fee- Nonsense. I never have a clue who is coming with me until usually a month or so before the trip!!! In 99% of the cases I will take the trip alone if no one else wants to go. In addition, if they are still going with the rack rate booking and then waiting for the discounttheory, if the discount is good enough I may be tempted to stay a few more days so Disney wants to penalize me to make my stay longer and spending more on resort stays, food and souveniers?? DUH!!!!!!!!!!
My understanding of this plan is that this is in addition to the current set up, not instead of so you can continue to call, book your room, and have the flexibility that a room only package gives. I prefer this as the last two points above just dont work for me or my traveling style. I am not one to call and modify the heck out of the ressie ( My travel agent usually makes it for me but it is the same thought process) I will call at worst to add someone onto the ressie, or possibly to extend my trip. I understand the idea may be to free up the people at CRO from these kinds of calls but then put a option in for a modification on the phone!!!!!! Also multiple ressies dont help anyone and do hurt fellow passholders as previously pointed out. Im sure Disney is trying to stop that as well. Having empty rooms go back into a pool at rack rate helps no one, and even if they were returned at AP rate, how many people could make a decision that fast?? Flights, vacation times, etc all have to be scheduled!!! I understand Disney's point in all of this but I dont think the system such as it is will be the answer. Belle

 

[DebbieB]

I think the $50 modification fee was if you wanted to change your reservation completely. Like changing it from a deluxe to a moderate because you decided to take a AAA rate at a moderate. If you wanted to stay longer or upgrade your reservation, I'm sure they wouldn't charge the fee.

 

[UrsulasMyHero]

Hi there all, I am pretty new here but a long time poster at WDWMagic. I cant see this program working in the shape it is in now. With a few modifications, possibly. Lets go over some of the points:
1) Non refundable deposit - Not usually an issue for me
2) 120 or more days in advance booking- again not usually much of an issue for me
3) Guaranteed best rate- This is the biggest problem I have. I like to know what my vacation is going to cost up front. If I am giving Disney the courtesy to adhere to all of the other rules and limitations of this plan, they should be giving the AP discounted rate IMMEDIATELY, not when and IF it comes out which brings me to my next point:
4)$50.00 per modification fee- Nonsense. I never have a clue who is coming with me until usually a month or so before the trip!!! In 99% of the cases I will take the trip alone if no one else wants to go. In addition, if they are still going with the rack rate booking and then waiting for the discounttheory, if the discount is good enough I may be tempted to stay a few more days so Disney wants to penalize me to make my stay longer and spending more on resort stays, food and souveniers?? DUH!!!!!!!!!!
My understanding of this plan is that this is in addition to the current set up, not instead of so you can continue to call, book your room, and have the flexibility that a room only package gives. I prefer this as the last two points above just dont work for me or my traveling style. I am not one to call and modify the heck out of the ressie ( My travel agent usually makes it for me but it is the same thought process) I will call at worst to add someone onto the ressie, or possibly to extend my trip. I understand the idea may be to free up the people at CRO from these kinds of calls but then put a option in for a modification on the phone!!!!!! Also multiple ressies dont help anyone and do hurt fellow passholders as previously pointed out. Im sure Disney is trying to stop that as well. Having empty rooms go back into a pool at rack rate helps no one, and even if they were returned at AP rate, how many people could make a decision that fast?? Flights, vacation times, etc all have to be scheduled!!! I understand Disney's point in all of this but I dont think the system such as it is will be the answer. Belle

Here, let me clarify this for you. The modification fee will ONLY be charged if the modification results in disney losing money. So if you down graded your reservation from a Delux to a mod, you would get the penalty *IF* it resulted in a lower cost to you. If you stay longer in your current catagory, no penalty...

Same goes for party size/age: If you have a kid coming and you say he's 12, but you call back and say he's 9 , you'll get the penalty. If you change the age upward, it's not going to charge you the fee. If you have 3 in your party, but then change to only two, you will get the fee. But if you add someone, you won't get the penalty.

I hope this info helps.

ps: the CRO Agents have asked for a modification line... they keep telling them it's "in the works"

 

[WannabeBelle25]

Here, let me clarify this for you. The modification fee will ONLY be charged if the modification results in disney losing money. So if you down graded your reservation from a Delux to a mod, you would get the penalty *IF* it resulted in a lower cost to you. If you stay longer in your current catagory, no penalty...

Same goes for party size/age: If you have a kid coming and you say he's 12, but you call back and say he's 9 , you'll get the penalty. If you change the age upward, it's not going to charge you the fee. If you have 3 in your party, but then change to only two, you will get the fee. But if you add someone, you won't get the penalty.

I hope this info helps.

ps: the CRO Agents have asked for a modification line... they keep telling them it's "in the works"

Thanks!!! Is this definite?? I had seen the tag line that all modifications would result in a $50.00 change penalty. Have they changed the wording on that? I would think that a change that doesnt impact the cost of the ressie or pushes it upwards should NOT be penalized but no one left me in charge!!!!! Thanks again for your input on this!!! Belle

 

[UrsulasMyHero]

That's what my friend from the CRO had to say. She said this is what her Manager passed down to them, but I doubt that you'll see it in the "by laws"

 

[missypie]

From a business standpoint, if Disney can sell out their rooms at rack rate, why should they offer a discount?

But have they studied the economic impact of all the folks who take extra trips to "get their money's worth" from their AP? We've all laughed about it on these boards...you buy an AP to save a few hundred dollars on your room...and then drop several thousand going back a second or third time that same year because you have an AP.

We bought one AP for our recent trip and the AP rate saved me $1000. But I really want to go back at least one more time. I figured if I could get a good enough rate, I could convince DH to go. But I'm sure not going to be able to convince DH to take an extra trip based on an unknown rate. It makes me sad.

 

[crazyj4488]

Change is lovely. UGH. I felt a lot better when I found out that it seems like AP holders may still be able to get some sort of discount without all those restrictions. As I am gathering now, booking under this new restrictive program just gets you the absolute best deal...basically, you are rewarded by abiding by all the restrictions. I am still a bit confused so I hope I am on the right track with my understanding of this so far.

 

[C.Ann]

I think it's great - for people who like to plunk down money and gamble.. I just don't happen to be one of them - LOL..

As for the $50 Modification Penalty - someone on one of these threads copied it right off the Passholders site and it applies to any change: upgrade; downgrade; age of children; shortened stays; longer stays; etc..

While the CM's may be saying something else, I think by now we all know that the CM's don't necessarily always have the correct information..

 

[PamNC]

by this change. But, at the end of the day, we're still going to go to Disney an average of 2X a year, and we're still better off buying an AP. We typically go 14-19 nights a year. I am totally outraged by the non-refundable deposit. That does NOT work for me. My work and my husband's work are such that we need flexibility. Not that we cancel every single time, it's actually quite rare if we do. But it happens. The $50 modification fee is absolutely ridiculous. Booking 120 days out isn't always possible for us.

But all of my anger aside....What this really means to me is we will NOT be able to afford to stay Deluxe anymore. Well, maybe we could afford it technically, but I will not ABSOLUTELY NO WAY will ever pay rack rate. We've been staying deluxe since 1999 and we've never paid rack rate. We're going in 12 days...booked the BC at an AP rate of $324 for 8 nights. We let our last AP lapse, so we're buying ours at Downtown Disney upon arrival, before we check in. I told my DH to enjoy this deluxe stay because it's probably our last.

I'm thinking of buying into DVC and never having to worry about this crap again. Anyone else consider that given the new program?

PamNC

 

[WannabeBelle25]

I think it's great - for people who like to plunk down money and gamble.. I just don't happen to be one of them - LOL..

As for the $50 Modification Penalty - someone on one of these threads copied it right off the Passholders site and it applies to any change: upgrade; downgrade; age of children; shortened stays; longer stays; etc..

While the CM's may be saying something else, I think by now we all know that the CM's don't necessarily always have the correct information..

Yep I am with ya C.Ann. Until the change policy is done in writing to reflect what has been told to us, I Am not going with it. This seems like more of a it depends on who you get on the phone kind of thing. I am sure that the CM's or at least some of them are being told that the change fee doesnt apply for some stuff but Id rather have it in writing just to cover the tailfeathers ya know?? Belle

 

[michaelwilliammidd]

While this is a big change, for those of us who don't want to deal with it....let's continue to do it the way we always have. Let's continue to call and book our AP rates the way we have in the past....they are giving us that option. True the rate may not be AS low as the rate you'll be given with the new plan, but it will be discounted. Yes, the rates will also be a little more limited but, at the same time we disers usually find out about the rates the morning they are issued and call in as soon as we hear to book so, probably more often than not we'll still be able to get a ressie. I'm not gonna stress much over this, maybe in the future they'll make this plan more clear and it will be worthwile for me to use it. If not, then I'l just continue to do things they way I always have.

 

[bicker]

I'm thinking of buying into DVC and never having to worry about this crap again. Anyone else consider that given the new program?

One of the most significant reasons I had for buying DVC originally was how incredibly difficult it was to get Annual Passholder discounts. I was utterly and completely frustrated by attempt-after-attempt to secure the discount, only to be spurned every time by lack of availability. Other folks evidently had more time to keep closer tabs on when the discounts were announced and/or faster fingers when calling in to secure the discount when it was released. I lost every time but once. (Let me tell you, I was as angry about that as you apparently are about the prospect of being forced to book AP discounts only through the new program -- which of course, is not necessarily ever going to be the case, as far as we know now.) This program is a wonderful option for all the folks, like me, who was very upset by repeated failures to reserve AP discounts when there were made available.

I felt DVC was a great alternative to the frustrations I had with the AP discount program. Now, for all intents and purposes, I get the AP discount, every year, without fail, without having to figuratively climb over a crowd of others to get the discount. Putting aside that we could theoretically sell our DVC membership now and actually yield a profit, even if we couldn't get anything for our membership now we've gleaned a very significant discount over what we would have paid for comparable accommodations. It's definitely worth looking into if you're a regular WDW guest, regardless of whether you're a "loyal" one or not.

 

[DisFlan]

Yup, the plan looks strange, but it makes good business sense. Disney wants people who pay rack rate, buy MYW tickets and spend big bucks on site. LOTS of people have learned how to play the Disney Discount Game, and Disney is trying to move away from making the game easy for us.

The sure fire way to get this new AP plan to work is for Disney to simply not offer AP discounts any other way (aka the "old" way). Which is probably exactly what they'll do in the near future. We'll likely see only one class of room-only discounts, and maybe fewer of those with less of a discount. And the discounted rooms may be made available on much shorter notice. (Hence the "120 day rule".) Eventually, it won't matter if you have an AP or not.

I'd look for an expanded period of the "Free Meal Plan" with rack rate rooms. Or a very inexpensive Meal Plan in some form. It's cheaper for Disney to give away food than to discount rooms.

As for AP sales, Disney would be happier with fewer APs sold. A room discount was a big incentive to buy an AP. They'd much prefer to sell each of us a ticket for each visit. (The new MYW pricing points to this.) I wouldn't be surprised to see AP prices climb. Probably in the $600-700 range. They'd make it cost effective for people who visit the parks numerous times a year, but it would discourage the people who only visit once or twice a year from buying APs mainly for room discounts - restrictive discounts that may not even be there.


DisFlan