New Park Rumor

[lockedoutlogic]

When the 5th gate does open within the next 10 years, no one will force the doubters or conservative Disney fans who never want WDW to expand beyond 4 aging parks to visit it. I'll be more than glad to add it to my annual pass and millions of others will flock to it.

no offense...but you're dreaming here

Building a new park...even one of the crappy half finished ones they've pumped out for ten years...is a 5 or 6 year proposition at a minimum.

It's hard to build on swamp land...and it requires huge infrastructure to build anything at WDW at this point...and disney pays for the construction of that bye and large

Just look at what went into the buiding of animal kindgom:

All star Music and Sports were built in 1993...now granted they had identified the need for such accomodations long before...but the huge numbers of rooms and the location was due in large part because of the proximity to the animal kingdom site.
Blizzard Beach was opened in 1995...again...there was a need...but the location and proximity to AK are in no way an accident.
They strongarmed the state and osceola county into the osceola parkway project...that took alot of time and elbow grease...and unlike the previously two things mentioned...that was to service AK almost exclusively and the new "resort" area to go with it.
Coronado was built and up in 97...in anticipation of the new park opening behind it.
The park itself required new access ways and service corridors that had to be built...along with extensive animal retention areas...and the park itself was under construction by 1993-4 for an opening date of 1999...which of course was moved up to counter the "threat" of islands of adventure and discovery cove...which also allowed them to slash budget that was out of control and cut back the parks attraction areas significantly without egg on their face.

So here's the nuts and bolts of it...dirt would almost have to be moving now to meet your timeframe...and the economic climate right now is horrible from the disney stock watch perspective for this type of capital investment...and the only reasonable place for a new park is between Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom on the Western Side...and no such project is ramping up. One stagnated, cheap, outsourced tourist hub is all that's going on there...and that is bad enough.

I'll take it a step further...not only will their be no 5th gate out there...there won't even be a significant investment plan in the old 4 in the next ten years...because i think their resources are stretched too thin in WDW...notably labor...and they probably are more interested in dumping the upkeep and operation of their holdings there on a third party much more than adding to their responsibility.

Realistically...the only thing that might be possible is a pixar based expansion of mgm or a "boutique" park such as Discovery Cove to attempt to create a new premium price alternative to the $86 dollar a day "pauper" parks...

That's how i'm reading the stars from where i sit...and it's not like i haven't been watching the conditions and for a time - directly involved in them.

 

[fannatic]

Time will tell.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Time will tell.

time is the problem with your plan: there isn't any.

That and cash and what appears to be a declining revenue market for themeparks on the horizon

 

[MJMcBride]

When the 5th gate does open within the next 10 years, no one will force the doubters or conservative Disney fans who never want WDW to expand beyond 4 aging parks to visit it. I'll be more than glad to add it to my annual pass and millions of others will flock to it.

A 5th park does not bring in new visitors except for an early boost from locals. It just redistributes the people who would show up anyway

 

[puntagordabob]

A bus drive told us 4 years ago that the monorail was supposed to be completed to DHS and Animal Kingdom in 3 years, which would have been last year.

Now THAT is a rumor that (i know it is expensive lol) I wish was true!

 

[cassandrap83]

Well, LEGOLAND is coming to Florida.

 

[pilferk]

Just returned home yesturday after 7 days at the World. On the way to the airport our Magical Express driver said a new park is in the works opening in about 3 years. He said it would be mainly all hi-speed thrill rides. Also said that because Disney had bought the rights to Marvel Comics from Universal some of Universals rides would be torn down (Hulk, Spider Man ect.) and put back up at the new park. Anyone else here this?

About 95% of the above is completely not true....which probably doesn't surprise anyone given the source of the rumor. Bus drivers are the proverbial punch line to every rumor joke surrounding WDW.

1) Disney has NOT announced a new park, and if reports we've all read are true, they're not planning on one "soon". Iger, at the last stockholders meeting, intimated as much, too.

2) The park will likely NOT be an IOA clone, since Disney is aware of the family nature of their resort. There have been a number of Disney executives, including Iger, who have said pretty much just that.

3) Yes, Disney bought Marvel...almost 18 months ago. Universal's license for the characters they are already using (Spidey, Hulk, X-men, Fantastic 4/Dr. Doom) is pretty much in perpetuity, east of the Mississippi. Disney can't tell Universal to tear down those rides....and Universal isn't going to do it of their own volition, given the profit they help bring in. Universal has to pay Marvel a licensing fee, yearly and they have to maintain the rides to acceptable standards. Provided they do that, the only other stipulation I've read about is that Universal can't significantly change/upgrade the rides without permission from Marvel (aka Disney), which they'll never get. But the existing rides will stay until they are long past stale, because Universal will try to wring every cent out of them, and knows it will take significant expense to "re-do" Marvel Island into something else.

4) IF Disney ever opens a Marvel section, or a Marvel theme park, in Orlando they'd probably have to do it without Hulk, Spidey, X-men, and Fantastic 4/Dr. Doom). Sure, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of other Marvel characters available for inclusion....but those are some heavy hitters, in terms of the brand, to not be able to use. I'd be pretty surprised if Disney went that route in Orlando. Maybe in Anaheim, some day....but even that would surprise me a bit, given the potential brand confusion that could arise....but more likely out of the US, entirely.

 

[chartle]

About 95% of the above is completely not true....

I would say more like 66%. As posted above, there is a planned high speed coaster park for I think 3 years out if they can get a noise clearance, but its not a Disney Marvel themed park and its not even a Disney theme park.

Batting 333 its bad at all.

 

[pilferk]

I have read on another Disney Board (from a reliable source) that the 5th park is to be called World of Marvel. They also claim that Disney is buying back the Marvel rights. I checked with the owner of another Disney site who claims a 5th park is coming. I've asked him before if it would be a villains park and he said no. He also said that the Night Kingdom/Jungle Trek thing was dead. So, this time when I mentioned World of Marvel he wouldn't comment. That may mean there is some truth to the rumor.

Sorry, I have a hard time believing that Universal would sell their "East of the Mississippi" specific character Marvel Theme park rights back to Disney. It would literally make zero sense for them to do it, given the cash they've tied up in developing the rides, relating them to their brand, and the prime real estate they've dedicated to them in their park. Selling those rights back would mean shuttering and redeveloping that area of the park....which they would be INSANE to do when they don't have to. In addition, they'd be handing Disney (their competition) a key resource to develop.

Sure, I guess if Disney offered to cover the costs for all that, AND give Universal a tidy profit, it MIGHT happen. We're talking hundreds of millions, here. Spidey reportedly cost 100 million to do, Hulk reportedly cost 40 million, Fearfall and Acceletron cost, reportedly, about 10 million total combined. Then add in the cost of the theming, etc, of the area. Now double it all (you have to pay them for the work they did + the replacements), add a piece for lost revenue while they have to close, redevelop, redo, and finish that section of the park, and add a tidy profit....because that's what Universal would ask for. There's no reason for them to ask for less, considering what we know of the contract.

Honestly, does anyone REALLY think there is any way that Disney ponies up an additional 500, 600, 700 million in order to get Hulk, Spidey, X-men and Fantastic 4/Dr. Doom for an Orlando park? I don't. Just can't see it. The stockholders would revolt.

 

[pilferk]

I would say more like 66%. As posted above, there is a planned high speed coaster park for I think 3 years out if they can get a noise clearance, but its not a Disney Marvel themed park and its not even a Disney theme park.

Batting 333 its bad at all.

But calling it a Disney park is not true, and THAT particular rumor, linked to Disney, is a long standing one.

Given the high speed roller coaster park is true (but completely unrelated to Disney or Marvel)...I'd revise down to 75% untrue.

Batting .250 ain't great, especially when we're not actually TALKING about baseball.

To sum up:

Truth:
1) There is a high speed roller coaster park possibly being built in Orlando, if the developers can get clearance by the locals.

2) Disney owns marvel.

Untrue:

1) Disney has a new park in the works

2) It will open in 3 years

3) Disney is involved in a high-speed thrill rides park

4) Disney bought the theme park rights to the Marvel Characters from universal

5) Universal's Marvel Rides will be torn down

6) Universal's Marvel Rides will be rebuilt in a Disney park.

 

[chartle]

But calling it a Disney park is not true, and THAT particular rumor, linked to Disney, is a long standing one.

Given the high speed roller coaster park is true (but completely unrelated to Disney or Marvel)...I'd revise down to 75% untrue.

Batting .250 ain't great, especially when we're not actually TALKING about baseball.

OK I'm going to wait for a ruling from the Commissioner of Rumors.

 

[fannatic]

Disney does have a 5th park in the works. It's supposedly part of a 10 year plan (not 2 0r 3 years). They are apparently working on getting back the rights to ALL Marvel properties movies, theme parks, etc. I've read that the name of the park is World of Marvel (we'll see). Disney can make their own attractions, they don't have to transfer rides from Universal.

 

[Spudette15]

I just got back too...didn't hear anything about a new park, just a lot of new resorts supposed to be going up in the next couple of years. Anyone else hear about those??

 

[pilferk]

Disney does have a 5th park in the works. It's supposedly part of a 10 year plan (not 2 0r 3 years). They are apparently working on getting back the rights to ALL Marvel properties movies, theme parks, etc. I've read that the name of the park is World of Marvel (we'll see). Disney can make their own attractions, they don't have to transfer rides from Universal.

Again, I'm sorry..but I don't buy it.

Fiscally, it makes zero sense for the parties involved (Sony,20th Century Fox, Universal Studios, etc) for them to give Disney anything back, except at an exhorbitant premium.

The contracts just don't lend themselves to it "making sense" for Disney to reacquire that stuff. I'd love to see evidence to the contrary....but I haven't. You'd be talking about a MASSIVE amount of cash changing hands, with multiple entities, to pull that off. Or, Disney can sit back and just collect the moolah rolling in, and take none of the risk.

As for the 5th park...there has been nothing announced. And there have been rumors of the 5th gate for....when did AK open? About 3 days after that. I'm sure there are "pie in the sky" concepts being thrown around various Imagineer's desks...as there have been for years and years. To me, that's not "working on a 5th park". That's brainstorming. Working on means building or, at least, have announced the intent to build. We have none of that yet.

Edit:

Some good analysis here:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8228&Itemid=73

and here:
http://iesb.net/index.php?option=co...fox-marvel-franchises&catid=41:news&Itemid=71

 

[pilferk]

I just got back too...didn't hear anything about a new park, just a lot of new resorts supposed to be going up in the next couple of years. Anyone else hear about those??

The Art of Animation (value resort of mostly family suites, a la AS Music).

The 4 Seasons resort (which isn't Disney, but is on "former" Disney property).

Golden Oaks (which isn't really a resort, but a fractional ownership community....adjacent to the 4 Seasons resort).

Various rumored DVC resorts (either stand alone or expansions of existing resorts like the Poly).

Those are the ones I've heard/read about....anything else?

 

[fannatic]

Since when do Disney fans have to be concerned if a project is Fiscally Correct. We're not pencil pushers from Disney Corp. Disneyland was laughed at until it became a huge hit. I don't buy the fact that Disney doesn't have the money for that right now. Disney is the largest media corp. in the world. They have enough money to do what ever they want. But, like most of big corporate America, they try to squeeze as much money out of nothing as is possible. EX. special discounts and "celebrations" instead of major new attractions. We've all seen the lift that Harry gave to Universal, yet Disney's parks' attendance was down. It may not be hurting the bottom line much now, but if they continue their non expansion policy it will hurt them down the line. I know die-hard Disney fans who are skipping WDW vacations and are going to other places because of the lack of anything new. If Iger is the "visionary" some think he is, he will start expanding the existing parks and building the 5th. How else are they going to get enough people to fill all of the new hotels they like to build.

 

[pilferk]

Since when do Disney fans have to be concerned if a project is Fiscally Correct. We're not pencil pushers from Disney Corp. Disneyland was laughed at until it became a huge hit. I don't buy the fact that Disney doesn't have the money for that right now. Disney is the largest media corp. in the world. They have enough money to do what ever they want. But, like most of big corporate America, they try to squeeze as much money out of nothing as is possible. EX. special discounts and "celebrations" instead of major new attractions. We've all seen the lift that Harry gave to Universal, yet Disney's parks' attendance was down. It may not be hurting the bottom line much now, but if they continue their non expansion policy it will hurt them down the line. I know die-hard Disney fans who are skipping WDW vacations and are going to other places because of the lack of anything new. If Iger is the "visionary" some think he is, he will start expanding the existing parks and building the 5th. How else are they going to get enough people to fill all of the new hotels they like to build.

Concerned? No. But you have to look at realistic chances given all the factors involved. And in this case, the realistic chances of them making a run at (not just reviewing the contracts for loopholes...which they've done, reportedly...but actually going out and trying to get) the Marvel properties held by Sony, Fox, and Universal Studios are "slim to none".

Disney is a corporation with stockholders. We all want to wrap ourselves up in the fuzzy good feelings and creative genius that has been this companies history, and that's fine when you're simply acting as a consumer/fan of their products. I know it sort of breaks "the 4th wall" and shatters the illusion when you have to step back and look at Disney in terms of being a business. But the FACT is, Disney execs are not going to make a move that would be tantamount to fiscal (and possibly career) suicide. That's realism. And considering what it would take to reacquire the contracted properties we're talking about....that proposition looks an awful lot like it....with little (if any) tangible benefit to the stockholders coming out of it, especially within the next 3 to 5 years.

Disney is simply not likely to lay out a billion dollars plus to get those properties back, and that's about what it would take. The contracts with Fox, Sony (which Marvel tried to challenge back in '03 and lost), and Universal Studios are, reportedly, air tight. And Disney has zero leverage to get them to negotiate a new deal, or to sell the rights back. That means the only way to get them back is to throw obscene amounts of money at those companies.

Paramount (Iron Man, Thor, and the rest of the Avengers) is a bit different. THERE they might have a shot at reclaiming some control. But that's one small piece.

As for fiscal resources....I wouldn't be so confident. They have a LOT of capital (and resources) tied up in cruise ships, DL expansion. the new overseas parks, and the current (smaller) WDW projects. Disney is big, but their resources aren't unlimited if they're going to show profits to their stockholders. Make no mistake: THAT is their primary goal. In this economy, that's struggle enough.

As for expansion, we'll see. But there is no PARK being "worked on"...that we know. We also know there are some expansions planned (Fantasy Land) and some new attractions planned. We know they tossed around a few ideas for a boutique type park ,but ultimately tossed them. Typically, if you look at the way Disney has expanded most recently, the build the infrastructure and hotel capacity FIRST, and then follow with a new park (for both MGM and AK)...with maybe one or two anchor hotels built concurrently or just after. We don't have ANY evidence of that yet.

We do have some clear cutting of significant space at AK. There are some indications of further expansion at MGM (permits...though nothing concrete yet). And we have the already announced Fantasy Land project. From what we know, and can see, it seems like Disney execs have targeted expansion of their existing parks at WDW, for now, rather than building a new one. That's not a bad idea, IMHO, all things considered.

 

[lovemickeyshouse]

Epcot could use some new rides but is a full day park .Hollywood Studios is a half day and needs more in the coming 5 years.

 

[johnGorski]

I agree with pilferk! There is so much potential in expansions to the existing parks and I have a feeling that’s the direction they are going. "Fantasy Land" I dont expect a 5 gate for at least 20-30 years

JMHO its even more wise to spend the around 3-4billion expanding the existing parks rather then building a new park.

I can defiantly see them continuing to expand all 4 parks in the short term 3-10 years.


It would be fun to see
MK-Fantasy land a huge success and new surprises announced for that, maybe expand Tomorrow Land, Frontier Land.
AK-Beastly Kingdome or Aussie land
Epcot-Overhaul the Imagine institute and Wonders of Life area. WS-add at least 2 new countries.
DHS-continue to focus on Pixar Place then if they get the Marvel rights put a Marvel land in DHS! Use the parking lot by Indy Stunt show. Lots of space to for additional land by DHS for new parking lot.


I have heard Disney’s goals to continue to make DHS and AK full day -day 1/2parks, like Epcot and MK

 

[umichigan10]

First of all, Magical Express is run by Mear's under contract. The drivers are not Disney employees.

Second, accoridng to extremely reliable information the contract Universal has is for the attractions which existed at the time of Disney buying Marvel will remain into perpetuity or until Universal decides to eliminate them. And Universal has a exclusive contract fotr the theme park use of those characters East of the Mississippi River in the United States.

And there is a new Resort under construcion at WDW called The Magic of Animation Art which will be a value resort and mostly suites. It will be located near Pop.

I love how in every contract it always says east of the Mississippi River lol.