New Monorail Fleet Ordered?

[soniam]

Pretty Cool! I have one of the original monorails, I bought it just after they went on sale. It's a red stripped monorail. I remember having to carry it through the airport. The only time I use it is Christmas time, I run it around the base of my Christmas Tree.

We do the same thing We only have the Contempo though. I hadn't seen the TTC and other pieces before

 

[hertamaniac]

I have yet to see a Disney press release indicating that the new monorails have been secured/ordered. I realize Bob Gurr (not a current Disney employee TMK) is likely very close to the sources, but can we fully accept his statement as confirmation?

 

[rteetz]

I have yet to see a Disney press release indicating that the new monorails have been secured/ordered. I realize Bob Gurr (not a current Disney employee TMK) is likely very close to the sources, but can we fully accept his statement as confirmation?

Yes and no. Disney isn't going to comment until they are ready much like the gondola/skyliner system. Bob Gurr is still in the know and could certainly have the knowledge of such ongoings. I can say there have been talks going on behind the scenes regarding new monorails so its more likely a matter of when not if.

 

[hertamaniac]

Yes and no. Disney isn't going to comment until they are ready much like the gondola/skyliner system. Bob Gurr is still in the know and could certainly have the knowledge of such ongoings. I can say there have been talks going on behind the scenes regarding new monorails so its more likely a matter of when not if.

I am a little concerned this follows suite with the Magic Kingdom's theater project; although this replacement feels like a mandate, not an adder.

I think Gurr's comments about 20 year life expectancy now into it's 3rd decade was quite revealing. No pun intended, but how could Disney not see this freight train coming? And worse, if they did, why wait until a complete replacement/overhaul is needed unless pushing your vendors to the capabilities limits or compromising operational efficiency?

 

[rteetz]

I am a little concerned this follows suite with the Magic Kingdom's theater project; although this replacement feels like a mandate, not an adder.

I think Gurr's comments about 20 year life expectancy now into it's 3rd decade was quite revealing. No pun intended, but how could Disney not see this freight train coming? And worse, if they did, why wait until a complete replacement/overhaul is needed unless pushing your vendors to the capabilities limits or compromising operational efficiency?

Monorails are not cheap. One could argue 10 years ago there weren't as many issues as we see today and Disney felt lets keep going with them. Obviously as they did things got worse to where we are today. I don't buy the theater money going into possible new monorails either.

 

[hertamaniac]

Monorails are not cheap. One could argue 10 years ago there weren't as many issues as we see today and Disney felt lets keep going with them. Obviously as they did things got worse to where we are today. I don't buy the theater money going into possible new monorails either.

Let's open the playbook a bit.

Disney vendors likely provided life cycle expectancy, based on empirical evidence, and had forewarning of impending issues by exceeding performance limits. So the issues experienced over the past, let's call it 2 years for arguments sake, could/should have been fully expected. If the vendor did not provide failure metrics, then I would have questioned that vendor's capabilities (but that's just me). If they supplied a 20-year operational limit, and you, the customer, decided to exceed those limits than you assume full liability and all costs associated with maintaining the design's original intent.

Agree with your statement about the theater money not being "directly" tied to the monorails, but I suspect each park is given a projected budget (now whether MK/EPCOT cost share the monorail is another discussion).

 

[rteetz]

Let's open the playbook a bit.

Disney vendors likely provided life cycle expectancy, based on empirical evidence, and had forewarning of impending issues by exceeding performance limits. So the issues experienced over the past, let's call it 2 years for arguments sake, could/should have been fully expected. If the vendor did not provide failure metrics, then I would have questioned that vendor's capabilities (but that's just me). If they supplied a 20-year operational limit, and you, the customer, decided to exceed those limits than you assume full liability and all costs associated with maintaining the design's original intent.

Agree with your statement about the theater money not being "directly" tied to the monorails, but I suspect each park is given a projected budget (now whether MK/EPCOT cost share the monorail is another discussion).

I believe WDW transportation is its own budget and then the theater is part of the parks/attractions budget. Those would be two separate things as WDW transportation is huge.

We obviously don't know exactly what happened but I would think Disney believed they could stretch the life span. The monorails still do run effectively most of the time but we do see issues more often than not.

 

[hertamaniac]

I believe WDW transportation is its own budget and then the theater is part of the parks/attractions budget. Those would be two separate things as WDW transportation is huge.

Well, if I was tasked with managing AK or HS, I would have serious issue with cost sharing transportation costs with MK/EPCOT as I am participating in the monorails upkeep/upgrade. In my mind, each park is an individual "profit center" with it's own P&L sheets. This would skew my profit metrics substantially and I, figuratively, would be pounding the board room table saying my park shouldn't subsidize your costs.

Moving on, I do agree that the monorails perform exceptionally well given they've exceed life expectancy. Last week, it still felt like a modern convenience as we traversed the monorail loop.

 

[rteetz]

Well, if I was tasked with managing AK or HS, I would have serious issue with cost sharing transportation costs with MK/EPCOT as I am participating in the monorails upkeep/upgrade. In my mind, each park is an individual "profit center" with it's own P&L sheets. This would skew my profit metrics substantially and I, figuratively, would be pounding the board room table saying my park shouldn't subsidize your costs.

Moving on, I do agree that the monorails perform exceptionally well given they've exceed life expectancy. Last week, it still felt like a modern convenience as we traversed the monorail loop.

I’m saying transportation as a whole is it’s own budget. All monorails, boats, gondolas, buses, etc. WDW transportation is much like a city. Each park isn’t putting forth money towards their own transportation.

 

[joelkfla]

I have yet to see a Disney press release indicating that the new monorails have been secured/ordered. I realize Bob Gurr (not a current Disney employee TMK) is likely very close to the sources, but can we fully accept his statement as confirmation?

If you watch the video, he actually says something like "Cotracts are out and it will be Bombardier if everything goes right." So it's not quite there yet.

 

[rteetz]

If you watch the video, he actually says something like "Cotracts are out and it will be Bombardier if everything goes right." So it's not quite there yet.

Yep which is what has been rumored or said previously. Bob Gurr is more or less helping give backing to the rumors.

 

[Takket]

i hope they contain an automated ramp of some sort for wheelchairs. the manual ramps are a pain for guests and CMs alike.

 

[Networth]

@rteetz is correct the theater being shelved, and the growing potential for new monorails are unrelated.

 

[Rileygirl]

That's not how trains are manufactured. They're generally delivered one or 2 at a time. Disney would also want to have one train ASAP for field testing, to uncover any design or fabrication problems.

BTW, Bombardier is notorious for failing to meet delivery commitments, most recently on Toronto's new streetcars.

They have been absolutely brutal- bombardier is years behind schedule for our light rail rapid transit. I believe they owe millions in penalties, but won't end up paying for them (rumour has it)

Of course, they may treat Disney better, because Disney has better lawyers......

That said, how exciting to have new monorails! I hope I get to ride them before they smell like old feet!

 

[hertamaniac]

I’m saying transportation as a whole is it’s own budget. All monorails, boats, gondolas, buses, etc. WDW transportation is much like a city. Each park isn’t putting forth money towards their own transportation.

Then the rumor of the theater being shelved for new monorails is completely squashed as they are not monetarily coupled?

I do wonder if the gondola system was a way of balancing the transportation costs so each park gets more parity.

 

[hertamaniac]

If you watch the video, he actually says something like "Cotracts are out and it will be Bombardier if everything goes right." So it's not quite there yet.

Exactly. That's why I posted #122 as to not say definitely that new monorails are coming in the short-term.

 

[Flayre]

I would say there still has be some thought given to the possibility this is this is just Mr. Gurr reciting the same rumor in an echo chamber and thereby inadvertently confirming the previous rumor. I would hope that he is basing this on more internal sources instead of some website ran by a grumpy hateful person who will naturally claim EXCLUSIVE when it does come out.

 

[rteetz]

Then the rumor of the theater being shelved for new monorails is completely squashed as they are not monetarily coupled?

I do wonder if the gondola system was a way of balancing the transportation costs so each park gets more parity.

The theater being cancelled has nothing to do with the monorailsz

 

[joelkfla]

I do wonder if the gondola system was a way of balancing the transportation costs so each park gets more parity.

It's my understanding that transportation costs are shouldered by the resorts, not the parks, although I'm not exactly sure how it all works. When I was a bus driver and I asked a manager why a particular service seemed inadequate, the answer I always got was that the resort was not willing to pay for better service.

Now, this may not apply to capital costs, and I think EWWS pays for it's transportation.

ETA: Disney has been looking for something to supplement/replace buses for years. I heard a very senior corporate transportation officer say that they recognized that buses and boats weren't adequate. IMHO, they just decided the Skyliner could do the job at much lower cost than the alternatives, while being unique and attractive.

 

[shoreward]

Minnie Vans now at all Disney resorts.

https://wdwnt.com/2018/04/walt-disn...-at-all-resorts-all-star-resorts-added-today/