New Fastpass Privileges Coming?

[Barb]

That's been my point all along. The current Fastpass is system is open and available to everyone, no matter where they stay, what ticket they have, etc. The system is not that hard to figure out and there is always a CM at the fastpass machines to help you figure it out. But, when you start charging people for the luxury of jumping to the front of the line, then things can get ugly. Yes, Universal gives you this perk when you stay at their resorts. But there again, this is a choice you can make based on this knowledge and what your finances can accommodate. But out and out paying for jumping to the front of the line just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. And, I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[SnackyStacky]

WHOAH. Time out BobO.

The handicapped and supposedly handicapped and their families already get treatment abvoe and beyond fastpass's so in the interest of fairness that should also be done away with so we are treated in excatly the same manner!!!

FIRST of all, if you'd like to deal with what the handicapped have to deal in order to get treatment "above and beyond Fastpass", help yourself. If these people weren't allowed to jump the line, they couldn't ride the rides. THAT seems fair enough to me.

SECOND of all, it's been my understanding that only the Magic Kingdom has non-mainstream queues. Which means in every other park, the handicapped don't get "above and beyond Fastpass", they wait in the same line with everybody else.

That remark was completely out of line and disrespectful. If that's how far you feel you need to go in this debate to make your point, I'll respectfully drop out.

Walt Disney is the real world as is any other business.

They are in the business of making magic.

And disney has always treated different types of guests in a different manner.

You're absolutely right. But that only happened when Eisner became CEO.

If we are going to whine about so-called fairness

Who's whining? I thought we were discussing?

then we should get rid of the whole fastpass system because for people who dont know how to use it or are familiar with it are also being treated unfairly, so the only answer is to get rid of the system all together and have no vips at all and make everyone

There is NOTHING preferential or VIP about Fastpass. It is available to everyone. Not to mention that Fastpass is NOT a front of the line mechanism. You are still waiting in line, it's just a virtual line. If that weren't true, the fastpass would be printed and you'd take the fastpass IMMEDIATELY to the front of the line. You still have to wait. That fastpass is just holding your place in line.

If someone doesn't know about it, there are plenty of chances to find out. The guidemaps have a HUGE section about it. THere are cast members up the wazoo. There are avenues to find out.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Bob O Bob O how can you read this thread and still persist with this ridiculous line of "reason?" (nonreason really)

Methinks because he knows what kind of response it will generate .

 

[Bob O]

Paul-You can state your thoughts as many times as you want and try to be insulting but it wont change my view.Im not the one worried about
so called fairness for everyone but believe in our capitalistic system where one should be able to benefit if they have the financial ability or knowhow to do so. While others are crying for fairness or the impostion of a socialist style of running the theme parks i believe people should be able to benefit as well as disney if they are more intelligent in how to use the system or are willing to pay for that privilege.
Yes Universal does have a fotl progam and that is the best hotel perk in florida!!!! (imho). And disney has also offered ee for onsite guests which im sure some people are against because i can enter the park earlier than those who dont stay on site or maybe cant afford to do so. so im sure the fairness police are also against this.
Snackystacky- If we are looking too "fairness" ALL SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME" No one should get better treatment than the next person, be it a vip, someone with a sore toe,someone with a kid who cant behave in a long line or someone who is truely disbled. Even Walt gave vip treatment to guests, its nothing new that was started by the eisner regime. The business of making magic is the real business and part of the real world and if not done properly the company can suffer major hardships like they did before eisner and are currently suffering thru.
Now how fair is it too a person who comes too the park in mid-afternoon on a busy day and most fastpasses are gone??? Is that fair????
Does it bother me, no, but it should bother the fairness people who believe everybody should be treated in the same manner with no one being treated differently and they werent even given the chance to get a fastpass??

 

[ohanafamily]

Bob, I am scared now... I agree with your last post.

 

[SnackyStacky]

No one should get better treatment than the next person

Did you read what I wrote? At all?

SECOND of all, it's been my understanding that only the Magic Kingdom has non-mainstream queues. Which means in every other park, the handicapped don't get "above and beyond Fastpass", they wait in the same line with everybody else.

So, with the exception of the few rides (and I do mean FEW) that don't have mainstream access, how are the handicapped getting preferrential treatment? Why don't you take THAT discussion up on the DISabilities forum.

Even Walt gave vip treatment to guests, its nothing new that was started by the eisner regime.

To whom? Did he offer programs where by PAYING, you would get better treatment? Did he have a booth somewhere at Disneyland that offered VIP services on a wide scale? If he did, then I humbly apologize.

The business of making magic is the real business and part of the real world and if not done properly the company can suffer major hardships like they did before eisner and are currently suffering thru.

So wait a moment here.....

Disney's current financial and artistic standings are the result of good business decisions and sound leadership?

And a company in an already shaky financial position is now going to offer a service that will alienate a whole slew of people, and make those people feel cheated. And that's a good business decision?

You can throw ISMs around all you want to, but really all it comes down to is that no matter how capitalistic our society, and no matter how capitalistic you feel the parks should be, should this new system come to pass, LOTS of people are going to feel cheated, and will in turn make them reconsider whether or not they want to shell out the already ridiculously high amounts of money to take a Disney vacation.

Now how fair is it too a person who comes too the park in mid-afternoon on a busy day and most fastpasses are gone??? Is that fair????

How could that be construed as not fair? Each park has a stated opening time and everybody can go and get those fastpasses when the park opens. The opportunity is there, and that opportunity comes only at the cost that EVERYBODY else pays; in other words ADMISSION.

And back to my asking if you read what I wrote:

There is NOTHING preferential or VIP about Fastpass. It is available to everyone. Not to mention that Fastpass is NOT a front of the line mechanism. You are still waiting in line, it's just a virtual line. If that weren't true, the fastpass would be printed and you'd take the fastpass IMMEDIATELY to the front of the line. You still have to wait. That fastpass is just holding your place in line.

So how is it preferential that instead of STANDING in line, you've got a slip of paper that says you ARE in line so you can go sit in the shade?

Does it bother me, no, but it should bother the fairness people who believe everybody should be treated in the same manner with no one being treated differently and they werent even given the chance to get a fastpass??

They WERE given the chance. See above.

This would be one situation if we were talking about a brand new theme park from a different company. But Disney theme parks have an almost FIFTY year precedent where this is not the case. EVERYONE was made to feel like a VIP.

Im not the one worried about
so called fairness for everyone but believe in our capitalistic system where one should be able to benefit if they have the financial ability or knowhow to do so.

So when I go to Disney World, I'm supposed to be subjected to the same crap that I deal with at home? When the whole mission of Disney World is to make you FORGET the real world? I really don't care to feel like 2nd class when I'm on vacation.

 

[raidermatt]

Bob, how do you feel about the following:

Disney charging for dinner PS's (which they have started doing for Fantasmic Dinner Packages).

Charging for better seats at the in-park shows/movies.

Charging to ride in the front of RnRC, Space Mountain, BTMR, etc.

Charging for curb spots on Main Street to watch Spectro.

Charging for the right to have your kid pulled out for the Share a Dream Come True parade.

Charging for the right to wait in a shaded queue, while letting others wait in the sun.

Charging to let a kid see Mickey Mouse in his house in Toontown.


Clearly all of these things are perfectly fine in a capitalistic society. Disney has every right to charge for them.

Does that mean its in their best interests to do so?


Its not a question of socialism vs. capitalism. That's a ridiculous argument that just avoids the real point.

The real point is how far is too far? Where does the line get drawn?

How many people are going to get p'd off about the fact that they already pay a huge sum of money to go to WDW, and now if they want to have some extra FP's they have to pay more?

Bob, you frequently talk about the problems with Disney's short-term, bottom-line driven philosophy, yet its that same philosophy that is driving this Premium FastPass concept.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Charging to ride in the front of RnRC, Space Mountain, BTMR, etc.

Ummmm...........I think they would charge to ride in the BACK on these rides as they are the best seats .

 

[PKS44]

http://vondrake.com/news/destination_disney.php

This is a more thorough and likely discussion of the changes that are coming...

Paul

 

[Bob O]

Raidermatt-Where the line gets drawn will be the decision of the disney company. With the amount on money/time they spend on polling their customers im sure(??) they have some idea of how far they can push the line in regards to adding a premium fastpass and why they are testing it in one park before they decide to use it at all of their parks. There is obviously a line to be drawn where they could offer a set amount of FP's for a extra amount of money where it wouldnt have a mjor impact on the length of the average wait time per ride. And i would guess that disney would weigh the pro's/cons of the FP just like they have for the dinner packages(which im all for and have used!!)
Charging to ride in the front of the rides/attractions mentioned wouldnt imho be worth it as none of the attraction's have a mojor benefit for riding in the front(now that could change if they built a ride with a major drop where the front gives a greater feeling of the drop or the rear of the ride where you may get more feeling of airtime). If they charged extra for parade spots that wouldnt IMHO cause more problems as something like that is out in the open while some guests having premuim fp's could be handled so the average guest may not be aware of a different type of pass, it could be made part of their ticket so few would know the difference, just a different computer coding but from the appearance it would be the same as anyone.
A dont like disneys bogttom line polices of late but this is something that could have been done before and they have always had vip treatment for people, just only the famous got it but not everyday people like you or me if we choose to get it. The bottom line polices have gutted the parks and by taking money away from the parks they have caused their own problems, with DCA/AK as examples. This offers them a chance to make some money and if done correctly (like apparently at USH/US FLA since i hear few complaints from those parks)wouldnt have a maor impact on guest experiences.
SnackyStacky-I have seen the handicapped and supposedly handicapped avoiding lines in all the parks by going onto rides via the exits and while the true handicapped people dont bother me, the scammers sure do, escpecailly when they openly joke about it and the large entourge that follows them with no waits. From what i have read in Walts time as now celebrities do get vip treatment/guides but unlike me(if given a option)dont pay for it but just get it for who they are, sure sounds fair doesnt it?? Escepcially since some here think all should be treated the same once in the parks.
Under eisner's leadership they havent shown good leadership/creativity as of late and that is why the company as a whole and the parks particulary are suffering like they are. Now if plans like a new FP are started intellgently/properly it will make a new stream of income which is needed and wouldnt have a major impact of the average park guest who wouldnt even know who may have one.
But disney already has different classe's of guests, those who stay onsite and get EE and those who stay on site and stay at a deluxe resort as compared to a budget resort and with it comes different modes of transportation and the use of different cast members who can get you perferred seating at meals and other goodies that budget hotels guests cant get and off site guests cant also get.
Now if you get a premuim fastpass that might make you feel special and not like a second class person on your vacation???
Some may want to live in a world where we are all equal and the same but that isnt the reality in the real world and also hasnt been the reality at wdw/dl.

 

[raidermatt]

Ummmm...........I think they would charge to ride in the BACK on these rides as they are the best seats

I know what you mean, but I'm just going on demand. When guests are a allowed to choose the line they will wait in for a coaster, they gravitate to the front as well as the back. So they could charge for both, I guess.

What's scary is that this idea has probably already been kicked around and is sitting in somebody's "Wait until the time is right" folder...

 

[Bob O]

Raidermatt- I prefer the back seat on these rides most of the time.
I would be against paying to ride in the front or back because it would be imposilbe to accomplish in a stealth manner where all wouldnt know about it but a fp system could be implemented in that manner.
Now at US where they have fotl access on a ride like the Hulk/DD they put you in the middle of the ride and you couldnt go in the front or the back. And at paramounts Kings Island they have a deal for season passholders where on tuesdays only if you are a season passholder you are allowed to ride some rides two times in a row, but the rows you could sit in were also in the middle and not the front and back.
There are different ways of setting up special systems and they can be done so not to be in your face which would upset less people than a roped off parade viewing area where it is easily visible.

 

[All Aboard]

So, it's ok to screw the other customers as long as they don't realize it's happening to them?

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Yes it is okay to screw the other customers if they don't know its happening to them.

Disney does this all the time. Just take a casual poll of co-workers or friends who can't be bothered to understand how cost effective it might be to become just slightly educated on Disney's package plans and alternative ways to get an experience that is just as satisfactory by ala carting it.

Frankly I think the fastpass system needs an overhaul anyway. I don't go during times of the year where it makes a difference but it does seem like people take fastpasses when they don't have plans to use them. The machines should have a limit as to how far in the future they will distribute passes...maybe 3 hours.

If Disney can make this work it will be a wonderful incentive to encourage people to stay on site. It doesn't seem logical to give the benefit to people who would stay on site anyway (DVC)...unless the purpose is to encourage sales of something like Eagle Pines or Saratoga Springs.

It grieves me to say this but I have every confidence Disney will create this perk in such a way that it doesn't noticeably impact the park experience of other guests.

Before some of you go off let me add that I own DVC, I own Disney shares and I currently have an AP that I plan to let expire (because I'm going to do Universal this year!).

PS. In re the "handicap" argument. As the occasional member of one of those huge entourages...they usually only let a limited number of people through the exit ramp...then that party waits until the rest of the party catches up in the regular line...same as a baby swap. And in some cases the handicap sections aren't the same ride that everyone else gets plus the seats are frequently all the way in the back or all the way in the front...generally not the best places to be (for a ride a handicap person would go on). The only true benefit can be a respite from the heat that the rest of you don't get...but would you want to pay the price for that.

 

[raidermatt]

It doesn't seem logical to give the benefit to people who would stay on site anyway (DVC)...

So once a company feels it has a guest's "loyalty", they should stop doing anything they are not contractually obligcated to do to keep them happy?

DVC members don't have to use their points to stay at WDW. If more of them don't, less money is spent in on-site restaurants and in the parks.

DVC members also have to buy park tickets just like everybody else. If they feel somebody else wants their business more, they can very easily buy their park tickets.

DVC members are also free to sell their DVC interest and just vacation elsewhere. This increases the supply of available DVC points, which lowers the price (bad for Disney). Also, it takes what was thought to be a guaranteed guest for the next 40 years and wipes that out.

So there are quite a few reasons to not look at DVC members as "locked in" guests who don't even need to be given the same opportunities as other guests.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Originally posted by raidermatt
So once a company feels it has a guest's "loyalty", they should stop doing anything they are not contractually obligcated to do to keep them happy?

This isn't what I said. Obviously since the company is in the business of selling a fantasy they have to keep their customers happy enough to return. That doesn't mean they have to offer all benefits to all people. It is reasonable to offer benefits in such a way the Walt Disney Company makes the maximum profit from the product they have to offer the public. They can offer that product in a tiered or caste system (they already do this anyway) as long as the product they offer to the vast majority is one they are willing to pay for.

I will say I don't agree with the notion that the majority of DVC'ers would pitch a fit & stampede for the exits. I do think a percentage of the people on this board might but that is a neglible fraction. And they would be more than made up for by the hordes who still want to buy directly from Disney. Yes the resale price would fall but that only hurts existing owners...not Disney.

The problem populace would be the AP holders...but Disney already has a problem with them in regard to the loss of the Disney Club discount.

If the benefit is limited, only those people (such as myself) who are obsessed with vacationing at Disney would even notice that it existed. The average imaginary sweaty family in the stand by line wouldn't realize that had they booked a certain way they could have had better access to fastpasses...even if they are repeat customers. They will just assume that the fastpassers are people who got to the kiosk earlier than they did. If they do figure it out...next time they'll think about choosing that other way for whatever reason Disney wants them to choose it.

Now...does this mean I think this is "morally" right. No of course not...but we aren't talking morals here...we are talking about making money in a legal and legitmate fashion in the way that made this country great. Disney is not church, its not education, its not family...its about entertaining people and making money doing it.

 

[Bob O]

No the customers arent being screwed, they would have the option to buy a premuim FP just like everybody else. The same as everybody has the option to use FP, everybody has the option of buying the premium FP. And of course if they go to the parks at the right time of the year you wouldnt need the premuim FP and rarely need to use FP at all.
Doubletrouble, what is immoral about disney selling a premuim FP???? if its immoral then disney should let everybody enter the park free of charge and ride the rides to their hearts content. If its immoral to charge for a premium FP, then charging admission to some one who cant other wise afford the admission price is also immoral.
Raidermatt-Disney has been taking their fan base for granted for many years so this is nothing new. They are using the good will they have built over the years to give us a inferior product than what they gave us in the past with the privilege of having us pay more for a dumbdowned product.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

As currently defined this fast pass would not be for sale separately from a package. Disney would be selling their regular tickets as if the purchasers would be entitled to the same benefits as everyone else...which they wouldn't be.

Now...from a business standpoint I don't have a problem with this...its the same as being able to purchase a ski lift ticket at a 33% or 50% discount if you know the right (unadvertised) channel....or buying an airline ticket for $150 when the passenger in the middle seat paid $600. When you are the lucky sap who got the cheap ticket you are happy (like the AP holders for example). When you're the one who paid through the nose or you are the one who isn't getting the good seat you aren't. It's all just business...but it is certainly unfair ...perhaps I went too far in calling it immoral.

 

[raidermatt]

Of course I have my personal opinion about what is fair or moral, but I really am leaving that out of the equation.

Again, my problem with it is not that there is a benefit being offered to a group other than DVC (or AP holders for that matter). You're right, this already happens all of the time.

What makes this different from all of the other various incentives and discounts out there is that it works to the DIRECT detriment of those who do not get it. The fact that its AP-holders and DVC members who are potentially being excluded just makes it worse.

There have always been different discounts available to different groups. But this is different. The fact that a AAA member got a certain discount did not take anything away from an AP holder. Disney has certain attendance targets and margins they are trying to hit and maintain, and they will offer discounts and incentives accordingly. But this DOES take something away from other guests, including (but not limited to) AP-holders and DVC members.

DVC and AP holders will be unable to get any more FPs than they do today, and will in fact have less access to them because those with PFPs will get more, causing FPs to sell out earlier in the day. The end result is not only that DVCs and APs are excluded from the benefit, but they are also worse off than they were before. Now, you may think this is ok, but we have to at least acknowledge that its not the same as the other discounts/incentives already being offered.

I'm not saying this will result in a mass exodus from the two programs, but its certainly going to create a lot of disatisfaction. These are two of the more knowledgable groups about WDW, and its unlikely they won't find out what's going on.

 

[raidermatt]

No the customers arent being screwed, they would have the option to buy a premuim FP just like everybody else.

No, Bob, from a realistic point of view, they do NOT. It is not practical or realistic to expect a DVC owner to just not use the points they paid $20,000 for. Nor is it realistic to expect an AP holder to buy another park ticket before their AP expires.