New Fastpass Privileges Coming?

[Bob O]

I saw alot of people at DL when i was there who had no idea what faspass was ,how you get one or any idea how the system works!!!! And those were people who spoke english and it could be alot worse for people who dont speak the language. While we on this site may be disney nuts or great planners not everybody going to a park has the same mentality/mindset and if we are looking for this socialist utopia where everybody supposedly is treated fair, is this fair or a injustice!!!!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Originally posted by Bob O
I saw alot of people at DL when i was there who had no idea what faspass was ,how you get one or any idea how the system works!!!! And those were people who spoke english and it could be alot worse for people who dont speak the language. While we on this site may be disney nuts or great planners not everybody going to a park has the same mentality/mindset and if we are looking for this socialist utopia where everybody supposedly is treated fair, is this fair or a injustice!!!!!

OK Bob O. For arguments sake, let's say I go to the mall. Don't do it often, but I go. I need to get from one level to the next. My problem is (actually, I may not even know I have the problem) is that I just don't know what a button is. Don't know what to make of them. Don't know what to do with them. I really struggle with how to get from the first floor to the third. Well, I just go and struggle with the stairs. They take a long time, but I get where I am going. Funny thing is, I often see this glass enclosed contraption that seems to go up and down, with people in it nonetheless. It is quite perplexing to me - and it has a button next to it. There also happen to be these directory things all around the mall. They tell you things, like where to find the bathrooms, security, this thing they keep calling an elevator. I walk by this guy dressed in a guard type outfit who seems to like to answer people's questions. Well, I did finish my shopping, but it took forever and I felt like a second class shopper because I had to keep walking those darned stairs.....................

..............ok, end of story. Now, was I discriminated against by the mall? Was I precluded from using the modern marvel that is the elevator? Or was I perhaps just an idiot? You don't have to be an avid mall goer to figure out an elevator. You don't have to be an avid park goer to figure out how to ride the rides using the systems they have available. You just have to open your eyes and look for the information. By the way, Disney prints park guides in many, many languages. Oh, if the mall in question limited the use of elevators to certain patrons - that would be unfair.

You seem to be the one who advocates the utopian society where everyone has a brain that they actually use. Is it unfair to someone who willingly refuses to spark thier own synapses? I don't think so. There is no unfairness involved with someone who goes to a Disney park and simply refuses to use their brain and make use of a very obvious system. If they are too lazy or too stupid they have only themselves to thank. It is not like someone told them they couldn't use the fastpasses - as would happen with limited availability of premium fastpasses.

 

[airlarry!]

This is why the 'caste system' debate is so relavent...because Ei$ner and his minion$ will try to implement it at every chance they can to increase the bottom line.

Does this implementation cross the line? Well, The Baron and I disagree ever so slightly on the details of the hotel plan...but I'll use that barometer here.

Distinct pricing plans for distinct economic levels of visitors IMHO are okay...as long as the same or similar level of service is offered. That is, to me, why the Poly and the Fort Wilderness are okay in my books. Wildly different prices, but both offer unique transportation to the resort.

Pay-for-play express tickets are just bad news, period. They alienate the general public who do not stay at a resort...which is MUCH different than early entry. Early entry is a relatively new phenomonon invented after three parks were in place. Resort guests were only given one hour earlier at one park only...leaving plenty of other choices for the non-resorters. Heck, many, many resorters actually leave that park after 10 or 11 to head to a different park due to the crowds (or even skip that one altogether).

Adding a ton of resort guests ALL DAY to the major rides AT EACH PARK is creating a caste mess! The next thing (and you know it is coming LB) is for Ei$ner to offer...uh...Simba Fast Passes for All-star stays (one extra Fast Pass) and Mermaid Fast Passes (two extra) and Mickey Fast Passes for the Grand Floridian (unlimited and multiple Fast Passes with no wait times). Or some sort of system where the higher priced resort guest gets to invade the fast pass line multiple times during my visit to a park.

Or even...oh I can see it being planned now...a special, special line sort of like the one for the corporate sponsors of the pavilions just for the people who stay in the higher priced resorts. Right to the head of the line bypassing even the FP lines.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I'll use that barometer here.

Is that a barometer or a baronmeter? .

 

[Bob O]

Apparently some have trouble reading or they would have seen that im not the advocating a utopian/socialist system but much perfer the capitalistic from where one who is willimg to pay more will get more as that is the American way(sadly its under attack now at this point in time)!!
Some people may not be lazy/stupid/dumb but may not understand what a fast pass is or have little understanding of the english language so they are at a disadvantage. It may surprise some here but not everybody who goes to the parks goes onto the internet or reads guide books before they arrive.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Hmmmm.......would seem rather utopian to have a society in which people don't suffer for their laziness and lack of common sense (which I will call stupidity in this case). Seems to me someone is trying to say that it is unfair for people to be penalized (miss out on fastpass) for their sheer stupidity. I know you really don't have a problem with that, but it is not unfair.

Hear this - on the whole, if someone does not figure out the fastpass system it is the pure and simple result of laziness or such stupidity. Sure, there may be a small contingent of visitors with very low IQ's and there may be guests who have mental retardation and such, and it is great to see them enjoying WDW. However, those whose mental abilities are severely diminished will likely be travelling with someone who mental abilities are not. So as a group they should have no trouble with the fastpass system.

Now people may not want to invest the time to figure the system out - but that is their problem. You don't have to read guidebooks or go on the internet to learn about the fastpass system. It is clearly explained in the park guide maps that you can pick up when you come through the door. Can't read English? Pick up a guide map in German, French, Japanese...................... the list goes on. Don't have a map? Ask a CM. Deaf, blind, mute, and travelling alone? Ok, maybe you won't figure it out.

 

[Bob O]

Well for those who believe that ALL SHOULD br treated the same they shouldnt want any uneducated park visitor left behind!!!! be it do to education problems or a unwillingness to study on their own they should be AFFORDED the same as everybody else and no one should benfit because they know more or took thew time to educate themslves. Thatis the goal of the socialists/utopian society people where we are all the same and it is a negativeto educate yourself and if you do you should be punished.
Some on this board are trying to have stalinist type behavior in the parks where we are supposedly all the same and one shouldnt benefit because they would spend more to avoid lines or are more knowledgable of how the system works, and this goes against the ideals of this country!!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Bob - we most certainly agree that the idea in your last post is absolutely rediculous.

Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year!!!!

 

[Bob O]

Disneykidds-My post was no more ridicoulos than ANY of your posts on this matter!!!
And may all have a blessed christmas and not forgot the tru meaning of the holiday"Christ"!!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Sheesh BobO, I try and agree with you and I get Baronesque CAPS and !!!!!. Oh well . You actually do have me confused. Your post about 'those left behind' and 'Stalinest behavior' which I called "rediculous" - well, I didn't think you believed in that mumbo jumbo. Then you go and get all sensitive when I call it rediculous, when I thought you found it rediculous as well.

 

[PKS44]

This discussion is confused about what equality means in a free market-

In a free market society (and the one that works best so far) all are not given the same treatment. OUTCOMES are not guaranteed to be the same...OPPORTUNITY is equal...that is it. EQUAL OPPORTUNITY-people have an equal opportunity to get a certain treatment---for FASTPASS as it is now used...some educate themselves on how to use it best, others do not...that is their own story played out based on their choices....if the uneducated follow the same steps as the educated then the outcome should be the same--if they choose not to, then the outcome is different--but the opportunity is EQUAL---inequality occurs when arbitrary reasons are used to change outcomes--(eg. skin color, birthplace, gender are used to determine who will have the opportunity or change the outcome) ...this nonsense about leaving behind the less educated is just that-nonsense...neither Disney, nor I nor the USA has any obligation to go out of the way to equalize the outcomes/use of Fastpass or anything else...equal access-that's it.

Paul

 

[DisneyKidds]

Golf claps for Paul!! . Thank you!!

 

[All Aboard]

Not sure exactly where this thread has strayed, but feel it's my fault. Seems there is some debate over whether fairness equates to a free and capatilistic society. And, more specifically, in this case whether offering premium fastpass is closer to a capital model or a social model.

I never intended for it to go there. I just want to make it clear that my disdain for premium fastpass is not related to anything that can described as utopian or socialistic. That far too great a stretch.

I'm simply opposed to Disney implementing a system affords a subset of the guests priveleges that would impose hardship on all of the other guests. It seems as though I'm almost cast as "unAmerican" for thinking that way.

It's quite simple. I buy my ticket to a theme park. I know I will stand in line. But the thought of having to wait additional time because others have something I don't really stinks. At Test Track there is a sign that states that as few as one party may enter from the standby line with each Fast Pass group. If it's really that bad, it sounds like FastPass is a requirement for Test Track. If the new system is implemented, will Premium FastPass be virtually required to get on the attraction without a ridiculous wait?

Heck, it's not really only a fairness issue. It's a business issue. Why anger and alienate your customer base to pull in a few extra bucks? That's a big risk. There's a big downside risk.

 

[DisneyKidds]

................who knows how we get the where we end up in most of these debates .

To me the crux of this "fairness" issue gets down to the difference between affording someone an opportunity for a price (the good old American way), or not affording someone an opportunity at all (as would be the case with "premium" fastpasses only offered to certain people).

Of course, that is only one tangent in this thread. The other one has to do with the question of whether someone has even been afforded the opportunity to do something (obtain a fastpass) if they are too intellectually challenged to figure out what a fastpass is. Should the system be factored to this lowest common denominator? I don't think so, and I'm still not sure if anybody does......................

 

[hopemax]

Apparently some have trouble reading or they would have seen that im not the advocating a utopian/socialist system but much perfer the capitalistic from where one who is willimg to pay more will get more as that is the American way(sadly its under attack now at this point in time)!!

Not to make matters worse, but I thought a capitalistic system referred to the fact that production and distribution of goods are done privately or by corporations (as opposed to governement). And without that government interference means we have a free market economy.

Utopian isn't a synonym for socialism. A capitalistic society can be utopian as well. And I believe that Adam Smith (father of capitalism) intended. He felt that a free market would be the best way to better the lifestyles of all individuals. The populace would demand things like equal treatment, equal pay, lower prices, better technologies and ultimately businesses would have to respond to those demands or they wouldn't be in business. Capitalism doesn't mean that "those who pay more get more." That's just what the American corporations want you to think that it means because it serves their interests.

Now to wrap this back around to Disney, I believe that Walt realized that the populace would respond to a place that was cleaner, good value, fun stuff to do and where "Everyone is a VIP." And by offering those things he would make a ton of money. (which he did) Disney can switch to this "you pay more, you get more" version of capitalism if they want, but in the long run I think it will cost them billions of dollars. I don't think they'll be able to maintain the 10+ million a year attendance they currently enjoy.

 

[Another Voice]

Someone buying more of an experience is okay, i.e. buying the 15 ride ticket book instead of the 11 ride ticket book. We all choose how we allocate our money differently. That person may want to spend more on rides; I want to spend more on merchandise.

Someone spending more on an experience that does not impact what I’m paying for is fine. People pay for a first class airline ticket to get more leg room; I just want to get to Cleveland and decide to suffer the leg cramps – so long as the plane gets there in one piece.

But a company intentionally offering someone the chance to spend more money to improve their experience by deliberately lowering mine without any other compensation is inherently unfair. Disney is selling my time (by making me wait in a longer standby line) to other people in the form of “unlimited” FastPasses.

Arguments about “fairness” and “equality” and “communists” don’t matter. It’s simply about what I’m willing to pay for and what Disney is willing to do in exchange for my money.

In the immediate future when all of the FastPasses are issued early in the morning to throngs of premium priced vacationers and hordes of annual pass holders – and I’m forced to wait in Stand-by lines doubled or tripled in length from what I used to enjoy – I and millions others will be forced to re-evaluate the cost of basic Disneyland admission. Philosophy doesn’t matter; consumer economics does.

Disney has already seen what happens when people re-evaluate the “value” of a WDW resort without early admission and the “value” of a full-priced ticket to half-sized parks. Perhaps they too will see what happens when the public feels some guests are “valued” more than others.

 

[All Aboard]

Disney is selling my time (by making we wait in a longer standby line) to other people in the form of “unlimited” FastPasses.

There it is, well put.

Disney cannot "create" the premium fastpass experience for it's users without a "cost" to others. It's just simply not possible. With x number of folks in the park desiring to ride y number of attractions in a day, the only way premium fastpass users get afforded the opportunity to reduce their own wait is by increasing the waits of everyone else.

Disney would be selling my time to folks willing to pay for it. That says it perfectly. And sums my point from the beginning. It's not just about getting a premium service, it's about the reduction that everyone else has to take for them to get it.

 

[Bob O]

Disneykidds-Of course we got ridiclous and went off on an tangent!!!! You have to have some fun now and then!!!
As for opportunity, eveybody would have the ability to buy a premium fastpass if they so desire and also if they dont want to pay for the privilege of avoiding long lines!!! And if they dont want to pay for one that is the choice they would make, but doesnt mean i should be deprived of that service if im willing to pay for one!!!!!
If people dont like the premuim fastpass should disney also get rid of the singlerider line on rides like Indiana Jones/Spalsh Mountain???? I used the single rider line for both attractions when the stated wait time was 1 1/2 hr at DL a couple of weeks ago and just walked on the ride with no wait!!! Is this then considered fair because few are aware of this type of ride option???? Or should i be rewarded due to my superior knowledge???
I think disney should offer premium passes but should limit the number like other parks already do!!! If people want to pay for this privilege their is no reason a company shouldnt offer it!!
Of course to avoid long lines people can do what Indy did in his movies and choose wisely and go in slower times of the year where the fastpass issue isnt much of a problem.

 

[manning]

The question is will the number of people willing to buy the FP out number those who will be turned off with it and go elsewhere.

In order to get a prime location for Illumination you have to pay for it. (Those dessert parties). I won't do it and don't go as often now. Does this contribute to EPCOT decline in attendance???

 

[All Aboard]

BobO, the single rider lines do not impact the waits of any other guests. They are simply used to fill in single seats that would otherwise go empty. The presence of the single rider line actually increases the overall capacity of the attraction.

And if they dont want to pay for one that is the choice they would make, but doesnt mean i should be deprived of that service if im willing to pay for one!!!!!

If that service places a burden on others or deprives them of enjoyment, yes, you better believe that you should be deprived.

I have a real desire to go out and start hitting people that I don't like over the head with a shovel. I've got a billion dollars, should I be deprived the opportunity to purchase a permit that allows me to do so? I'm willing to pay for it for crying out loud!!!!