New DVC Resorts?

[AC168]

While reading about pros and cons of resale, it's dawned on me that the only new resorts that I know of, besides Riviera which exists now, that will exist soon will be Villas at Disneyland Hotel. Do the new sales at Villas at Grand Floridian for the studios count as "new"? Will the add-on to Poly count as "new"? Also significantly, does DVC have any plans to build at a physical location separate (not next door) from what exists already?

Thanks for any info!

I bought a VGC resale a few years ago that I'm really happy with and am contemplating a purchase at a WDW resort -- it just seems to me that resale is a significantly better deal. I could be pursuaded to buy direct if there was a stunning new location -- say in the middle of Yosemite or Yellowstone -- but I don't see that happening!

 

[tjkraz]

Non theme park locations are unlikely. Aulani in Hawaii has been a disappointment. That was viewed as sort of a "if you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere" timeshare destination. The problem is that the vast majority of people only buy DVC for Disney. Locations like Hawaii, Hilton Head and Vero are nice to occasionally visit, but don't draw the buyers anywhere near the rate of park locations.

Increasingly Disney's solution for non-park destinations is to partner with timeshare trading company Interval International. II allows DVC to market literally hundreds of other destinations. In theory, booking a room thru II is no more difficult than booking a DVC location. (In reality, it can be much harder depending upon where/when you're trying to travel.)

They've got Aulani, Riviera and Grand Floridian for sale now. Disneyland Hotel in 2023 and Polynesian in 2024. That's probably enough points to support sales for the next 5+ years. It takes 2.5-3 years to build a new resort so we may not hear about another destination until 2024.

 

[AC168]

Thanks! So Aulani, Riviera, and Grand Floridian count as "new" with "new" rules ... and nothing on the horizon for a long time.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Non theme park locations are unlikely. Aulani in Hawaii has been a disappointment. That was viewed as sort of a "if you can't make it here, you can't make it anywhere" timeshare destination. The problem is that the vast majority of people only buy DVC for Disney. Locations like Hawaii, Hilton Head and Vero are nice to occasionally visit, but don't draw the buyers anywhere near the rate of park locations.

Increasingly Disney's solution for non-park destinations is to partner with timeshare trading company Interval International. II allows DVC to market literally hundreds of other destinations. In theory, booking a room thru II is no more difficult than booking a DVC location. (In reality, it can be much harder depending upon where/when you're trying to travel.)

They've got Aulani, Riviera and Grand Floridian for sale now. Disneyland Hotel in 2023 and Polynesian in 2024. That's probably enough points to support sales for the next 5+ years. It takes 2.5-3 years to build a new resort so we may not hear about another destination until 2024.

I don't know the financials of Aulani, but even if it's a disappointment they can't sell all the DVC points, I doubt it's a disappointment as in "We wish we had never built this thing". AFAIK they make a killing selling cash rooms, at least pre-covid they did. It has a decent occupancy rate from what I've read, at least in line with other Hawaii resorts. I could be way off on this though it's been a while since I was looking at it.

Maybe in the future they would still do off-site, but with a different model. Just guessing though.

 

[Sandisw]

Right now the only resort that one is locked out of buying resale is RIV.

BPK studios were a new phase added to VGfF so those ca. be booked using resale points.

VDH and Poly tower will be new builds but no official information has come out In reference to being restricted from use by resale points bought since 2019.

Many do assume they will have them but until DVD actually announces it it’s still just a guess.

The only for way that you will have access to those resorts, no matter the decision for restrictions is to buy direct points right now that are good every where.


.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't know the financials of Aulani, but even if it's a disappointment they can't sell all the DVC points, I doubt it's a disappointment as in "We wish we had never built this thing". AFAIK they make a killing selling cash rooms, at least pre-covid they did. It has a decent occupancy rate from what I've read, at least in line with other Hawaii resorts. I could be way off on this though it's been a while since I was looking at it.

Maybe in the future they would still do off-site, but with a different model. Just guessing though.

When you factor in the higher development costs (buying land, building in a remote location like Hawaii) and slower, most costly sales process, off-site just doesn't deliver the same bang-for-buck as a park resort. By comparison, building around the parks is easy money. And that's where DVC will direct its resources.

Years ago I was told that there was one particular high-ranking Disney official who really lead the charge on Aulani. That could always happen again. DVC once had land (or options on land) in Times Square, DC and the California Coast and they walked away from those projects. I think Colorado too. They've surveyed members about locations like Lake Tahoe and Vegas.

But it's proven very tough to convince people to buy into a Disney timeshare in a non-Disney location. The smarter play is to partner with Interval, which gives Disney the ability to say "look at all of these places you can stay using DVC points!!", but they don't have to move a single shovel of dirt. Why bother building and selling 5 million points in a Lake Tahoe DVC when you can sell them Disneyland Hotel points with the promise of occasionally booking Tahoe thru II?

People who aren't Disney Parks fans are very unlikely to buy a Disney timeshare. People who are Disney Parks fans can be sold Disney Parks locations.

 

[DebLovesPooh]

Not sure if this a concern for you, but there is speculation that the 2042 resorts, like Boardwalk and Beach Club, will end up being sold as “new” after their contracts expire.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

When you factor in the higher development costs (buying land, building in a remote location like Hawaii) and slower, most costly sales process, off-site just doesn't deliver the same bang-for-buck as a park resort. By comparison, building around the parks is easy money. And that's where DVC will direct its resources.

Years ago I was told that there was one particular high-ranking Disney official who really lead the charge on Aulani. That could always happen again. DVC once had land (or options on land) in Times Square, DC and the California Coast and they walked away from those projects. I think Colorado too. They've surveyed members about locations like Lake Tahoe and Vegas.

But it's proven very tough to convince people to buy into a Disney timeshare in a non-Disney location. The smarter play is to partner with Interval, which gives Disney the ability to say "look at all of these places you can stay using DVC points!!", but they don't have to move a single shovel of dirt. Why bother building and selling 5 million points in a Lake Tahoe DVC when you can sell them Disneyland Hotel points with the promise of occasionally booking Tahoe thru II?

People who aren't Disney Parks fans are very unlikely to buy a Disney timeshare. People who are Disney Parks fans can be sold Disney Parks locations.

It's too bad imo because Disney blew it out of the park with Aulani so it would be cool to see what imagineers can do in other locations. But oh well

 

[Cfabar1]

I think a few things here….

- DVC will build again… Remember, prior to COVID the Reflections Resort was going to happen.
- With 2042 quickly approaching, DVC will soon be deciding what to do with their existing properties, and how to best right-size and renovate them to meet the ideal Disney customer of today (read more upscale).
- Aulani, VB, and HH will likely remain anomalies.… I would love personally for Disney to have pursued the Eisner strategy and build out a bigger network of properties… I think the approach to ownership that Disney operates (namely the expiration dates) works best for WDW/DL, and makes the properties like VB, HH, Aulani, etc. less attractive. I don’t see it happening.

Aulani I think is likely justifiable… Vero Beach, having recently sold the land for Phase II, was clearly a flop. HH, I can’t speak to, other than, it feels like VB and HH were an “experiment” that failed, and Aulani was more about the ability to build something on great real estate in a part of the country/world that people don’t mind overpaying for everything. They remain a “niche” part of Disney, not even as big a deal as DCL, which proved that Disney branding could compete in the cruise space.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Since both HHI and VB sold out, why are they considered failures? Aulani is far. But maybe other DVC in the continental US would sell out.

 

[Cfabar1]

Half of Vero was not built. Also, Disney had to subsidize VB owners for years In terms of dues.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Half of Vero was not built. Also, Disney had to subsidize VB owners for years In terms of dues.

Was the other half of Vero not built because the first half didn't sell quickly enough?

 

[DonMacGregor]

It's too bad imo because Disney blew it out of the park with Aulani so it would be cool to see what imagineers can do in other locations. But oh well

Now that Joe Rohde is gone, I'd hedge my bets on that hope.

 

[The Jackal]

Half of Vero was not built. Also, Disney had to subsidize VB owners for years In terms of dues.

VB like Aulani have a certain amount of early purchased contracts that have subsidized dues, due to certain reasons. The subsidized dues on those contracts remain in effect for the entire life of the contract. There are a lot fewer VB subsidized than Aulani from what I can see.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Aulani is not new. Aulani has been in sales for more than 10 years now.

New is defined by when they joined the condo association. RIV and anything after is new.

VGF is not new because the additional studios were added to the existing VGF association.

Betting odds are that the PolyDayInn will not join the existing Poly association and be a new resort for purposes of association membership.

 

[RoseGold]

DVC has like ten classes of owners. If by "new" you mean with resale restrictions, that's currently only RIV, probably DL tower too shortly. Who knows what Poly2 will do. VGF2 does not have resale restrictions.

If by "new" you mean an actual new construction, you won't find much in DVC outside RIV and arguably VGF2. The other DVC projects, CCV, VGF2, Poly, were flips of undesirable aging hotel rooms. This is a strategy that I can see continuing, hopefully Yacht Club.

 

[hglenn]

This is a strategy that I can see continuing, hopefully Yacht Club.

Also wouldn't bother me if Coronado springs built a few more towers and converted to DVC. I love that tower but cannot stand the other rooms/buildings there.

 

[tjkraz]

Since both HHI and VB sold out, why are they considered failures? Aulani is far. But maybe other DVC in the continental US would sell out.

Vero was definitely a disappointment. The resort is only about 170 rooms. It was supposed to be twice that size, adding more villas on the other side of the road where the sports courts are located. But it took nearly 10 years to sell the points in that modest number of rooms. Since early buyers were promised the resort would be much larger--with costs for common areas shared by more owners--DVC has subsidized those owners' dues. Contracts created after the second phase was cancelled must pay the full dues amount.

Hilton Head has a lot more fans, though it is criticized for not being on the Atlantic coast. There are hotels and timeshares with better location on HHI. It sold faster than Vero, but is even smaller at just over 100 rooms (vast majority dedicated 2BR villas.)

It comes down to the selling of the points. Most die-hard fans see the appeal in having a taste of Disney outside of Orlando or Anaheim. But it's difficult to convince people to buy into those destinations, rather than viewing them as a nice place to book at 7 months every few years.

It's not that locations like NYC, DC, Vegas or Tahoe are undesirable. Clearly other hotels and timeshares operate successfully in those locations. But if you're Disney/DVC contemplating where to build the next $250M+ hotel project, theme park locations have a proven track record for a higher rate of return. Park destinations sell faster at higher net prices, and they don't require the added overhead of building outside of Disney's established "bubble" (land purchase being one of the key factors.)

 

[RoseGold]

Also wouldn't bother me if Coronado springs built a few more towers and converted to DVC. I love that tower but cannot stand the other rooms/buildings there.

IMO, the next Skyliner expansion will be HS to Coronado to TTC. There's space to add a Coronado2 to the north on the Skyliner, like the RIV, next to a moderate location.

 

[RoseGold]

But maybe other DVC in the continental US would sell out.

This ship has sailed. Disney had Colorado ski resort property that became the Hyatt and sold the NYC property as well. They aren't going that path.