New CS Seating Policy & The GAC

[Disneyadore]

@ Stellapedia.
Thank you for the answer and I do understand .
Never in a million years I would pick up a strange toddler and believe me if some one picked up or touched my kid I would freak out.
And yes looking at it its like playing with a wheelchair or any other device that a disabled person uses.

 

[danielle782001]

What restaurants does this apply to? I wasn't aware of any new policy.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-disney-restaurants-seating-100609,0,1099425.story

 

[Schmeck]

No, waiting outside on a bench would not be an appropriate accomodation, for further info, please see my previous post. As far as what one would do if there were no tables- My family would have to go somewhere else; many families with the same disabilities would have to go somewhere else. Unless WDW can provide an alternate SAFE place to wait with my children, they DO have to provide a way for me to sit in a SAFE location within the restaurant. That is equal access, that is what is provided under ADA. We are not allowed to bring meals into the park, therefore we must eat food that is prepared and sold within the park, therefore our families must be provided with equal access to food outlets within the park. That means a safe way of having children with disabilities wait with one parent while the other stands in a line.

Actually, you, as parents, are the ones responsible for keeping your children safe, not WDW. If keeping your children safe (beyond the physical property) puts an undue burden on the restaurant, then it does not have to waive any policy set to accommodate you. You have been given physical access to the building, any more than that is not covered under ADA.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

No, waiting outside on a bench would not be an appropriate accomodation, for further info, please see my previous post. As far as what one would do if there were no tables- My family would have to go somewhere else; many families with the same disabilities would have to go somewhere else. Unless WDW can provide an alternate SAFE place to wait with my children, they DO have to provide a way for me to sit in a SAFE location within the restaurant. That is equal access, that is what is provided under ADA. We are not allowed to bring meals into the park, therefore we must eat food that is prepared and sold within the park, therefore our families must be provided with equal access to food outlets within the park. That means a safe way of having children with disabilities wait with one parent while the other stands in a line.

First of all you are allowed to bring food into the Parks. The only prohibitions are no glass containers, no alcoholic beverages, and the food must be able to fit in a small-soft-sided cooler.

The policy that a person (or family) must have their food before being seated is an good policy. As long as a child is able to remain with one parent while someone else is getting the food seems to be a safe environment for the child(ren). If there is a medical reason a child cannot stand they should be in a stroller or wheelchair.

And if you go during a crowded time all the quick service restaurants will be crowded and the same situation will exist in all.

 

[kaytieeldr]

No, waiting outside on a bench would not be an appropriate accomodation, for further info, please see my previous post. As far as what one would do if there were no tables- My family would have to go somewhere else;

Then, it appears parties in your and similar situations who are dining at one of the four restaurants currently using this seating procedure, during peak dining times, during peak park visiting times, would need to deem the restaurant as having no tables available for you - and would need to go somewhere else.

Unless WDW can provide an alternate SAFE place to wait with my children, they DO have to provide a way for me to sit in a SAFE location within the restaurant.

Repectfully, they do not need to provide a SAFE location within the restaurant until you have food and are prepared to dine.

 

[ireland_nicole]

If anyone had read my previous post who has commented on them, they would know that we already dine at off peak times, and during the slower season. Secondly, I would love to know how to fit all of the food required for a family of 5 into a small softsided cooler. Thirdly, my children do use a stroller, both for medical reasons for my son who has hypotonia and for my DD who has autism. However, the side by side stroller does not fit through the lines for food, and also gives no ability to carry said food while pushing it.
and I have to use an ECV, so that also limits who can go where when and how.
I am deeply saddened by what I perceive is the discrimination of those with other disabilities against families with kids with autism and developmental disabilities. I appreciate the reminders of how Disney is in no way obligated to accomodate us. I am not looking for extra special treatment, I am trying to ascertain a way to be able to experience disney whilst keeping my children and others safe. I for one would appreciate useful, helpful suggestions as opposed to what I believe is the judgement of some.

 

[clanmcculloch]

Not speaking specifically for the OP, but for myself, having a quiet, controlled place to wait while one parent is getting lunch, etc. is a requirement. I have two children w/ neuro disabilities, including autism. Trying to get them to stay in one place w/o moving and w/o having a meltdown from the overstimulation of people bumping into them while hungry is a physical impossibility. We are also limited in where we can sit, to avoid a child eloping, we need to sit with them against a wall. That is for their safety and the safety of others- primarily to prevent one of my kids running under the feet of someone not looking because they're carrying a tray or two. So if there isn't a suitable table, we don't eat there. Also, we need a table where the kids can be somewhat contained because there's only one of us watching them. We keep some snacks and distractions with us at all times, and work very hard to keep them engaged.

For all of the reasons stated, the "solution" you propose is completely unworkable. and fwiw, we do eat at off peak times of day and during value season so the crowds are as low as possible. Sometimes it is very difficult to have empathy for someone who has a different disability and therefore different needs. Hopefully this is a place where we can educate and support each other.

No, waiting outside on a bench would not be an appropriate accomodation, for further info, please see my previous post. As far as what one would do if there were no tables- My family would have to go somewhere else; many families with the same disabilities would have to go somewhere else. Unless WDW can provide an alternate SAFE place to wait with my children, they DO have to provide a way for me to sit in a SAFE location within the restaurant. That is equal access, that is what is provided under ADA. We are not allowed to bring meals into the park, therefore we must eat food that is prepared and sold within the park, therefore our families must be provided with equal access to food outlets within the park. That means a safe way of having children with disabilities wait with one parent while the other stands in a line.

I still don't understand why waiting outside or having the kids in a double stroller for containment wouldn't be an acceptable solution if you were to try to eat at a peak time during a peak season (something you said you wouldn't do anyway). When you're wandering around the parks you need to plan ahead to make sure that your kids can handle the environment and not suddenly run off or have meltdowns. Dining is no different.

I make sure that we eat at off times. We've got an extra wait at restaurants (CS and TS) because of food allergies (after waiting in line like everybody else we have to wait for a manager and then wait for our food to be made from scratch rather than eating food that's already been prepped) so we have to make sure that we plan around our kids special needs (one is autistic and the other I suspect but have not been able to get tested). We get the GAC for the attractions but at the same time I've also subscribed to TGM because planning makes all the difference in the world. Again, this is just as true of dining. Planning can make or break the experience.

Even back when we just had my DSDs (both neuro-typical), I would avoid restaurants at peak hours just because I hate the lines and waits. I don't expect Disney to make special acccomodations when I can still gain equal access to the facilities with proper planning. We actually build our itineraries to try to avoid eating at CS locations in the parks very often since the resort food courts generally are much easier to manage with all of our special needs. When we will be eating at parks we eat well before meal rushes are expected to start just so things will go much smoother for us.

This new policy is not going to be in effect at every CS location and even at the locations where it will be in effect, it will only be at peak times of the day during peak times of the year. If you plan correctly then you'll still be able to do what you've always done (one person get a table while another person gets the food). Since you said this is when you eat, I'm not sure I understand why you're so concerned about this policy. It won't impact you. You will still be able to do exactly what you do today.

 

[clanmcculloch]

If anyone had read my previous post who has commented on them, they would know that we already dine at off peak times, and during the slower season. Secondly, I would love to know how to fit all of the food required for a family of 5 into a small softsided cooler. Thirdly, my children do use a stroller, both for medical reasons for my son who has hypotonia and for my DD who has autism. However, the side by side stroller does not fit through the lines for food, and also gives no ability to carry said food while pushing it.
and I have to use an ECV, so that also limits who can go where when and how.
I am deeply saddened by what I perceive is the discrimination of those with other disabilities against families with kids with autism and developmental disabilities. I appreciate the reminders of how Disney is in no way obligated to accomodate us. I am not looking for extra special treatment, I am trying to ascertain a way to be able to experience disney whilst keeping my children and others safe. I for one would appreciate useful, helpful suggestions as opposed to what I believe is the judgement of some.

You posted this reply at the same time that I posted my reply. I just wanted to comment on your reply.

I really have not been reading judgement from others. It seems to me that others have been trying to offer alternatives for you. Granted not all of the suggestions are doable for your (bringing food for 5 in a small soft sided cooler would be difficult but it could be done as frustrating as it would be) but people are trying to offer suggestions. These suggestions did not include judgement. I think your frustration with your situation might be colouring your view of their remarks.

Look, I really do get that it's difficult, especially when one of the adults is in an ECV and you need to have strollers for more than one child. I don't understand why you can't use a double stroller (if an ECV can fit then so can a double stroller).

If you're going at non-peak times like you said then this new rule won't impact you. In addition, if there is a CM at the entrance guiding people to the correct locations then I'm sure they could arrange for a CM to come help your party carry food if that's needed. Again, this really isn't an issue for you since you won't be eating at these times, but say there's an emergency (maybe somebody's blood sugar suddenly tanks), I'm sure you could get help.

Personally, I still prefer planning my trip to include eating more at my resort food court because I dislike the overall environment of CS locations at the parks plus they can't accomodate our dietary needs as well as the resorts but the few times we do eat at CS locations the parks we plan it out ahead of time, go during non-peak times and if need be, DH will wait with the kids while I go order.

Disney really is amazing at offering accomodations to all sorts of things (that's why you choose to vacation there I'm assuming), but in your case, what you're doing today really is what's best for your family. Disney shouldn't need change up how they're going to manage those peak times. The only accomodation that I think they might be able to do is for the person who would normally be getting in line and carrying the food to continue to do so and when the CM shows this person to their table to go get the rest of the party from where they're waiting since the rest of you won't fit. I would think that since the strollers and ECV won't fit through the lines that they would have to have an alternative area to go. An alternative place where you could get through would be covered by the ADA (they have to have somewhere that you can fit after all).

 

[danielle782001]

The purpose of this thread for me is to understand the policy and our options...Parents of children with needs such as myself need to see/hear options from people that understand the types of very difficult issues we face...I am truly open to hear from people that can be sensitive to our families needs...And yes, it is upsetting when another person with issues such as mine is harshly responded to for explaining the issues that family faces...It is hard to raise a child with needs especially autism...

Please try to understand that we can use advice, not judgement

 

[saveaquarter]

While waiting outside is perfectly fine, assuming there is actually a space to sit, what if someone with special needs, who cannot stand for prolonged periods of time, supposed to do if it is raining? Presumably many of those people who might otherwise sit on the benches outside are perfectly capable of standing indoors, but what of those who cant?

What about my husband, who will likely be in a wheelchair, but also has Asperger's? How is confining him in one spot in a loud, crowded restaurant waiting area with no idea when or where we'll come to rest an accommodation?

What about someone with foot problems related to diabetes, like a close friend of mine, who is okay as long as she keeps moving, but cannot stand still for any length of time because of the pressure on her feet?

 

[Ctsplaysinrain]

I think that this policy will be hard for us as well. I am normally in the parks alone iwth my 2 boys- they are older 12 and 14 but the older one has Asperger's and the younger severe adhhhhhhhhhhd and asperger's. Normally, I would put the older one at a table and go get food w/ younger one. Normally, we would be getting food because the older one is close to meltdown and may need a break from his brother. I can see older one have a full blown meltdown in line while we were waiting for a table- not pretty at all with a 5'10" 14 year old.... But, I guess we can avoid these restaurants..
BUT, I do wonder how this policy would work at Cosmic Rays. We have only eaten here twice ( mainly because it was EMH and only thing open) and I found this restaurant so hard anyway since you have to go to different lines to get food... I wonder if it they are actually going to combine the lines here or something...And how does everyone do this restaurant? It was hard going in one line to get a burger but having to go to another line to get kids nuggest and then another to get adult nuggets......

 

[ireland_nicole]

I still don't understand why waiting outside or having the kids in a double stroller for containment wouldn't be an acceptable solution if you were to try to eat at a peak time during a peak season (something you said you wouldn't do anyway). When you're wandering around the parks you need to plan ahead to make sure that your kids can handle the environment and not suddenly run off or have meltdowns. Dining is no different.

I make sure that we eat at off times. We've got an extra wait at restaurants (CS and TS) because of food allergies (after waiting in line like everybody else we have to wait for a manager and then wait for our food to be made from scratch rather than eating food that's already been prepped) so we have to make sure that we plan around our kids special needs (one is autistic and the other I suspect but have not been able to get tested). We get the GAC for the attractions but at the same time I've also subscribed to TGM because planning makes all the difference in the world. Again, this is just as true of dining. Planning can make or break the experience.

Even back when we just had my DSDs (both neuro-typical), I would avoid restaurants at peak hours just because I hate the lines and waits. I don't expect Disney to make special acccomodations when I can still gain equal access to the facilities with proper planning. We actually build our itineraries to try to avoid eating at CS locations in the parks very often since the resort food courts generally are much easier to manage with all of our special needs. When we will be eating at parks we eat well before meal rushes are expected to start just so things will go much smoother for us.

This new policy is not going to be in effect at every CS location and even at the locations where it will be in effect, it will only be at peak times of the day during peak times of the year. If you plan correctly then you'll still be able to do what you've always done (one person get a table while another person gets the food). Since you said this is when you eat, I'm not sure I understand why you're so concerned about this policy. It won't impact you. You will still be able to do exactly what you do today.

It does impact me, because if there is a policy which intended or otherwise discriminates against those like me, than it effects me. That is part of what awareness is about. Speaking up over a potentially discriminatory policy and trying together to find workable solutions for all. Also, even though many programs are piloted in certain restaurants at certain times, that doesn't mean that by next year it won't be all of the restaurants all of the time. And like pp's have said, it's not just families with autism, there are many other families for whom this policy, while I'm sure well intentioned, inadvertently discriminates against. And I understand about the special diets thing since they both have food allergies/intolerances as well.

 

[going/again]

WDW provides benches outside of the restaurants for those who need to be seated while someone else gets the food. Of course, someone else might already be sitting there.

so you get 1/2 trays of food go outside then push a wheelchair through the door with 1/2 trays in hand. another well thought out response. why do people who have no idea of the challenges some people suffer come up with these ridicolous insights .

 

[clanmcculloch]

It does impact me, because if there is a policy which intended or otherwise discriminates against those like me, than it effects me. That is part of what awareness is about. Speaking up over a potentially discriminatory policy and trying together to find workable solutions for all. Also, even though many programs are piloted in certain restaurants at certain times, that doesn't mean that by next year it won't be all of the restaurants all of the time. And like pp's have said, it's not just families with autism, there are many other families for whom this policy, while I'm sure well intentioned, inadvertently discriminates against. And I understand about the special diets thing since they both have food allergies/intolerances as well.

Definition of discrimination: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.

Disney is not doing anything against you. You can still do exactly what you've always done. There are other places you can eat where they don't have this policy and even at those places that do, it's only at certain times. You are also allowed to bring in your own food. Nobody is preventing you from eating. All that's happening is that you can't do what you current do if you CHOOSE to eat at the busiest times during the busiest times of the year. It is NOT discrimination to implement a policy that makes it more difficult (but not impossible) for a family to use a certain facility at a specific time when there are other facilities available at that time and the same facility is available at other times. There are still options for you at all times even if it's not the locations that you would prefer.

There are things that my family can not to at WDW because of our differences (I hate the term disabilities). Do I consider it discriminatory that WDW doesn't provide for every one of our special needs? No! I'm grateful that WDW does as much as they do to make our vacations even possible. I've walked away from many rides because even with our GAC the situation would not be good for my kids. I've missed out on many fireworks (I've only made it to 1; fantasmic and even then we had a total meltdown at the bus stop on the way out) and parades (I've only made it to 1 because so many people in such close proximity freaks out my daughter) because there is no accomodation for my kids. We have equal access to everything. Disney is not doing anything to prevent us from going. It's our own situation that makes us unable to do these things. Disney gives us just as much access as anybody else. The fact that my kids can't cope with some things does NOT mean that we're being discriminated against just because a company didn't bend over backwards even farther to make sure that we can partake.

You're worrying about a scenario that hasn't even happened (adding this to every CS location at all times) and playing the discrimination card when it doesn't apply. If you're truly worried about discrimination then make sure you understand exactly what discrimination is. It hurts cases of real discrimination when people throw that word around incorrectly.

 

[SueM in MN]

Just a reminder to play nice.
There are some pretty strong emotions connected with getting tables. I have been on both sides of this situation - having gotten food with a child with multiple challenges and a wheelchair and not been able to get a spot to sit and having gotten a table and sat waiting for food because that worked best for us.
I think we need more reports of how this will be managed. I know they were doing it as a test at some of the places we ate last spring at WDW because I read about people who encountered it while we were there. We ate at off peak times and never did run into any times they were doing it.
One thing we DID run into, which greatly impacts our ability to wait in the ordering lines, was that each restaurant does have some wheelchair accessible lines, but they are not well marked and we found then closed much more than open. If they only have a few lines open, one of them has to be the accessible line.
Also, most of the lines are set up to accommodate a line of people ordering, but only a small number of people picking up food. The times we saw larger families waiting in line to get their food, they were in the way of the next groups waiting. And, sometimes, the next group's food came first because it was a smaller or easier to complete order.

 

[bookwormde]

I really do not think that anyone with a disability is going to be denied being able to wait seated if it is a need to be able to have an equivalent experience (be able get food for your family and eat it at a table) that just does not sound like the CMs I run into.

Oh by the way for those that are not aware ADA is a discrimination law not a disability law.

And yes WDW or any other public establishment cannot make policies (or must wave them) when they violate equal accommodation portion of ADA, just that simple.

bookwormde

 

[Schmeck]

And yes WDW or any other public establishment cannot make policies (or must wave them) when they violate equal accommodation portion of ADA, just that simple.

bookwormde

Written to be specifically vague, the ADA does have in it the writing that a waiver does not have to be made if it puts an undue burden on the establishment. For example, a PP mentioned fireworks - should WDW have to not have fireworks if someone's disability makes it unbearable for them to be present during fireworks? That puts an unfair burden on the establishment. So does turning the sound off of in an attraction, turning the lights on, etc. Seating someone without food at a table where tables are at a premium, and people are waiting with food in hand for a table, puts an undue burden on the establishment.

One way to get around this is to limit the number of people actually allowed to go in - if no tables are open, no one gets in. Then it becomes a quasi TS/CS situation.

 

[KirstenB]

I think that this policy will be hard for us as well. I am normally in the parks alone iwth my 2 boys- they are older 12 and 14 but the older one has Asperger's and the younger severe adhhhhhhhhhhd and asperger's. Normally, I would put the older one at a table and go get food w/ younger one. Normally, we would be getting food because the older one is close to meltdown and may need a break from his brother. I can see older one have a full blown meltdown in line while we were waiting for a table- not pretty at all with a 5'10" 14 year old.... But, I guess we can avoid these restaurants..
BUT, I do wonder how this policy would work at Cosmic Rays. We have only eaten here twice ( mainly because it was EMH and only thing open) and I found this restaurant so hard anyway since you have to go to different lines to get food... I wonder if it they are actually going to combine the lines here or something...And how does everyone do this restaurant? It was hard going in one line to get a burger but having to go to another line to get kids nuggest and then another to get adult nuggets......

I know what you mean. We have season passes to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg, and the Festhaus is set up with different stations. Unfortunately, I just go to the "kid friendly" line, and order whatever looks remotely healthy for someone who's no longer a kid, while I get our dd's their usual pizzas, etc. I do wish they'd offer the same foods in each line!

 

[dclfun]

I like this policy as during peak times there have been WAY too many instances that I have had to maneuver my chair around the restaurant trying to find a table that will accommodate both my family AND my wheelchair AND be out of the way for my service dog not to get trampled AND have space for a highchair for my grandson. I see this as an advantage- a CM at the entrance will be able to find an appropriate seating area for me because the tables won't be taken by the people who don't even have food yet. How often does one find a table against the wall? In those situations a CM will be able to direct you to a table that meets your needs for more containment, or at least have a better chance of that. I'm in a power wheelchair, so yes, if it's raining, I would need to be under shelter. No one said guests have to wait in the rain and I'm sure the line would be able to snake around inside if need be as I can't imagine anyone who would prefer to be out in inclement weather, disabled or not. And no, Disney does not have to waive their policy for any of us, although as bookwormde mentioned, if there a specific issue that comes up, I can't imagine a CM wouldn't do their best to make a family comfortable. I'm also certain that a CM would carry a tray for someone in an ECV or someone struggling to hold hands and a tray at the same time. I've always been offered that assistance even before this policy was in place. I don't feel anyone has been judgemental other than to point out that just because Disney does their best to accommodate our special needs (whatever they may be) we have no right to expect more than equal access. It's our responsibility to ensure that we work within the parameters given either by choosing another time or place to dine if necessary. Let's face it- during peak times it was almost impossible to find a seat in these places, the crowds milling about were unbearable, and once people came in the door and saw limited seating, they were much more inclined to plop in any table because they worried about not getting a seat, creating the very problem they were worried about. Let's just all relax instead of getting in an uproar over something that may actually work out better for us-having an orderly, calmer experience vs. the hoopla and tension with the crowds. People need a place to *relax* during mealtimes, not be exposed to all the extra stimulation and stress that limited seating creates.---Kathy

 

[Stellapedia]

You are not being discriminated against. You are not being catered to in the way that you want, but that's not discrimination.

If I go alone with my son, he can't go on Thunder Mountain, his FAVORITE ride. Because I can't take the dog and I certainly can't leave the dog. That's not discrimination, it's a point of fact. Dog can't go on roller coaster.

You want something to make it easier to manage with your children, totally understandable. You want to make things easier and more enjoyable for everyone, totally understandable. But this policy is not discriminating against you, nor would it be in any way a violation of the ADA (tables are for paying customers only. Until you've bought your food, you are not a paying customer). You are not being forbidden to enter the park or even eat, you are just being preventer from (as are we all) using facilities that are reserved for paying customers until you have become a paying customer. If they choose to allow you, given your unique circumstances, usage of the facility before that point, bully for you. But being given preferential seating, or use of reserved facilities for a non-customer (which, until you've purchased your food, you are) is not in any way required by the ADA.

It's similar to me saying that I plan on checking into a hotel tomorrow, but I am tired now, and because my child has a disablity they need to give me a room now. It's not the case in any way shape or form, and refusing my unreasonable demand is not discrimination.